Question: as diehard fans, are we on the same page about the team and about Josh ?

[Italian Bills]

Usually i take few days before commenting a loss, because i need to elaborate it without let my emotions drive my thoughts. 
 

That said and agreeing with all of your different analysis that can be all correct, i want to ask you this: 

 

do we still believe that the Bills can have a great season, going deep in the playoff, dunno if reaching the SB and that Josh is a top elite QB ? 
 

Or this loss changed your point of view on this judgment ? 

[Goin Breakdown]

They can still do great things but I am

open to the idea that this may be a down year. Josh will be great more than he will be the Qb for the other team. It's week one so we'll wait and see. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh is one the most talented QBs in the history of the league but the book is out on him sit your safeties back and he will get frustrated and play hero ball. It’s up to him to fix it and after being called a liar by Payton Manning I think he’ll be fine.

The team gets Von Miller back by the end of the month but stopping the rushing attacks seems to still be an issue. 
This is still a double digit win team but I’ll know more about them when Miami comes to town at the end of the month. 

[KDIGGZ]

Josh needs a lobotomy or at the very least some psychological intervention. You can tell him not to do things like take hits or throw into triple coverage but he clearly is just going to do it anyways. Something in his brain is telling him this is ok or this is more fun than boring 5 yard passes. Until he works at that then nothing will change. We can win games but he can go off the deep end at any moment and we can lose to any team in the league when that happens

[Boatdrinks]

I believe that they can, but it’s mostly on Josh if they will or not. That’s been true the last few years, but Josh was mostly doing the right things. He’s got to get this figured out and do what he’s capable of. 

[Jerome007]

Mahomes had to take quite a few games to go from "hero ball" to the short game. But when they finally adjusted, they were again unstoppable. I recall reading the usual "teams have figured him out" and blablabla. IDK if Burrows had the same mental issues adjusting but I know the team did. The Bengals OL was weak so they went form a deep pass  attack to more varied. They had a very average start to the season last year before going on a tear. Yes,  fans forget how good Josh can be. But we now know he can and will be bad at times. It has rarely happened in big games and prime time though. 

 

Miller + Floyd = very dangerous pas rush. Like you, I see the Bills as a top team. Superbowl, hopefully, we'll see then. Injuries, momentum and so on, who can predict what will happen in 3 months? Focus on NOW.

[GunnerBill]

I think this team with average or above QB play can make the playoffs. To win the division or make a run deep in the post-season it will need the QB to be elite or close to. 

 

If Josh plays like he did Monday for 17 games..... they have no chance. 

[Boatdrinks]

5 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Josh is one the most talented QBs in the history of the league but the book is out on him sit your safeties back and he will get frustrated and play hero ball. It’s up to him to fix it and after being called a liar by Payton Manning I think he’ll be fine.

The team gets Von Miller back by the end of the month but stopping the rushing attacks seems to still be an issue. 
This is still a double digit win team but I’ll know more about them when Miami comes to town at the end of the month. 

We’ll know more about them before that. If Allen continues playing like he did, well that’s how you can lose to the Zack Wilson’s of the world. It won’t be tough to tell if he shakes it off or not. 

[Mango]

Can we make this a poll?

 

Josh is wildly physically talented. He runs on moxie and physiology. If he doesn’t change that he’ll have a harder career than he should.
 

Favre had bad games and bad years. Maybe that’s Josh. I’ve thought he’d always have some longevity.  But Monday night was the first time I’ve thought “maybe he doesn’t”. 
 

There is one fact that keeps gnawing at me.  His turnover rate of nearly 2 per game in the last 365 is way too high to keep going. It has to be fixed and fixed fast.  
 

35 turnovers in the last 19 games is tragic. 
 

Edit: For reference, Mahomes has 18 over the same span. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Mango
Mahomes

[78thealltimegreat]

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

We’ll know more about them before that. If Allen continues playing like he did, well that’s how you can lose to the Zack Wilson’s of the world. It won’t be tough to tell if he shakes it off or not. 

You usually don’t know what you have in a team till the end of September heck Joe Burrow looked like he belonged in the cfl on Sunday and we all know the Bengals will not look like that by the end of September. 

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, 78thealltimegreat said:

You usually don’t know what you have in a team till the end of September heck Joe Burrow looked like he belonged in the cfl on Sunday and we all know the Bengals will not look like that by the end of September. 

So if Josh continues his current trajectory, you think he will shake it off for the last game in September ? I think he’s got to fix it immediately or the end of September will look pretty much the same. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

20 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Josh is one the most talented QBs in the history of the league but the book is out on him sit your safeties back and he will get frustrated and play hero ball. It’s up to him to fix it and after being called a liar by Payton Manning I think he’ll be fine.

The team gets Von Miller back by the end of the month but stopping the rushing attacks seems to still be an issue. 
This is still a double digit win team but I’ll know more about them when Miami comes to town at the end of the month. 

Can you elaborate on the Peyton Manning bit? I missed this.

[uticaclub]

There’s thousands of memebers, theres no way we are all on the same page. Haha

[finn]

Until Monday night, I've always had in mind the Allen from the 13-second game, and I've rationalized away every bad performance since then (bad day, bad line, bad elbow, bad receivers). But the Jets game was something different altogether. He didn't just have a bad day; something was very wrong. 

 

Now he appears ashamed and bewildered. Not a good emotional state for a comeback. 

[78thealltimegreat]

2 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Can you elaborate on the Peyton Manning bit? I missed this.

Yeh Giuseppe there’s a clip making the rounds after his second int of the Manning cast where Peyton basically says Josh is liar and Josh told him he was going to take what the D gave him. 

5 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

So if Josh continues his current trajectory, you think he will shake it off for the last game in September ? I think he’s got to fix it immediately or the end of September will look pretty much the same. 

I think if he plays a very boring conservative style I think the Bills can win both games from rosters alone. 
With the Dolphins he needs his A+ game as they are going to need 30 points to win minimum 

[MPL]

This team is what it is because of Josh Allen.

 

That statement is both positive and negative. 

[SCBills]

It's Week One, and Week One is typically not directly indicative of anything relating to the full season.

 

That said, we're 0-1 in a tough division, with a divisional loss out the gate, and our '23 season has begun the same way our '22 season ended.  On Offense, all the same issues we saw for much of the last half of the year, culminating in a disaster performance in the Divisional Round, presented themselves again on Monday Night. 

 

This is more than a "one-off".   I don't believe we can just pretend it's the Week One anomaly.  It's not.  It's a pattern.  

 

Is it correctable?  Yes.  

 

But it's going to take some heavy lifting from our QB and OC.  And that's concerning, because Josh Allen is the reason we're a Super Bowl contender.  Currently, he's been playing like the guy that's holding us back. 

 

I do believe the roster around him is Super Bowl caliber.  Especially when Von Miller comes back.  

 

WR2 and RT are concerns, but every team, including the Chiefs, Bengals and Dolphins has a weakness or two.   I don't believe WR2 is fatal.  RT is a worry.  

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by SCBills

[Buftex]

6 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Can you elaborate on the Peyton Manning bit? I missed this.

I only heard the soundbite, but apparently on the "Manning Cast" , Peyton said that when he talked to Josh this week, Allen told him he is dertmined to cut down on turnovers, and play smarter...so, as the game wore on and the turnovers and blunders piled up, Peyton said "he lied to me."

[MPL]

5 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

There’s thousands of memebers, theres no way we are all on the same page. Haha

this thread alone is guaranteed to be at least 15 pages. 

[oldmanfan]

Josh can be elite and win Lombardi's, but he needs to do what Brady and Manning (and now Mahomes) learned and take the easy throws.  It has nothing to do with coaching, it has to do with him realizing what wins and what doesn't.  

 

We'll be a playoff team again this year, and once you get there you always have a chance.

[schoolhouserock]

These Bills will do exactly as past Bills have done. They will make the playoffs and then lay a stinker like Monday night.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Yeh Giuseppe there’s a clip making the rounds after his second int of the Manning cast where Peyton basically says Josh is liar and Josh told him he was going to take what the D gave him. 

he told everyone he was going to play smarter running and throwing. Then did the opposite.

 

it’s repairable because it’s 100% mental, but it’s all on him, and maybe his supporting cast to get his attention. 

[Stroke 17]

I think Josh will improve, by that I mean he will be better but he will still do some crazy stuff but will not be Monday Night bad.

 

This weeks national press coverage has knocked him down a bit. Nobody blowing smoke up his butt this week, telling him how great he is, nobody comparing him to Mahomes or any other top tier QB. The competitive juices in him will/should make him better. I think his focus will improve especially because he realizes he cost his team the game.

 

I think things will get better but that schedule is brutal, he, the team  and the coaches better figure it out. 

 

They're killen me Whitey, they're killin me.

 

We can get it done, we can get it done what' more we gotta get it done!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I guess Burrows, Kermit, Sherbert, & Cousins are all washed up and declining now as well

[Fan in Chicago]

50 minutes ago, Italian Bills said:

Usually i take few days before commenting a loss, because i need to elaborate it without let my emotions drive my thoughts. 
 

That said and agreeing with all of your different analysis that can be all correct, i want to ask you this: 

 

do we still believe that the Bills can have a great season, going deep in the playoff, dunno if reaching the SB and that Josh is a top elite QB ? 
 

Or this loss changed your point of view on this judgment ? 

As goes Josh, so does the team. I expect Allen will reduce the number of errors per game and we will stumble and bumble into the playoffs where he will get exposed yet again.

In a weird way, I would rather have a bad loss in the playoffs than in the Superbowl. I have zero confidence in good Josh showing up on Superbowl game day. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Mango]

I don’t know if Josh went Hollywood. I think maybe he went the Willy Beaman route. He was a relative nobody, became a legit superstar, and became over confident. 
 

Hopefully Josh doesn’t sign with the Aztecs. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

9 minutes ago, Buftex said:

I only heard the soundbite, but apparently on the "Manning Cast" , Peyton said that when he talked to Josh this week, Allen told him he is dertmined to cut down on turnovers, and play smarter...so, as the game wore on and the turnovers and blunders piled up, Peyton said "he lied to me."

So strange. He kept repeating this in multiple places and then just... did the complete opposite, perhaps more so than any other game in his career. Make it make sense?

[Fan in Chicago]

3 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I guess Burrows, Kermit, Sherbert, & Cousins are all washed up and declining now as well

Allen was mentioned in the same breath as Burrow and Mahomes. Mahomess team lost narrowly and he was decent for the game. Burrow was not good at all but he could differentiate between uniform colors even though the Browns' colors are in the same family as Bengals. Allen couldnt tell the difference between Blue and Green

[Lost]

28 minutes ago, Mango said:

Can we make this a poll?

 

Josh is wildly physically talented. He runs on moxie and physiology. If he doesn’t change that he’ll have a harder career than he should.
 

Favre had bad games and bad years. Maybe that’s Josh. I’ve thought he’d always have some longevity.  But Monday night was the first time I’ve thought “maybe he doesn’t”. 
 

There is one fact that keeps gnawing at me.  His turnover rate of nearly 2 per game in the last 365 is way too high to keep going. It has to be fixed and fixed fast.  
 

35 turnovers in the last 19 games is tragic. 
 

Edit: For reference, Mahomes has 18 over the same span. 

 

It was brought up during the broadcast of one of the games last year(might have been Vikings game) but prior to the 2022 bye week, Josh Allen had just 3 red zone interceptions in his entire career, but had something like 6 in just the 3 games since the 2022 bye week.   Hard to fathom what can change so drastically like that. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Lost

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

I guess Burrows, Kermit, Sherbert, & Cousins are all washed up and declining now as well

 

Nobody views Cousins in the same sense as the other guys. 

 

Burrow was catching heavy criticism, but also has a pattern of missing time before the season starts.. starting off poorly.. and then getting it together. 

 

Allen has been a hot mess since the middle of last year, when viewed through the lens of elite QB play.  And we thought we could explain that away due to his very real injury that, to his credit, he played through.   But what's the excuse to come out looking even worse to start this season?

 

He's deserving of much of the criticism he's receiving.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by SCBills

[sunshynman]

We peeked week 1 last year. I'd rather peek in the SB this year. 

 

It's a long season. Josh will get right. It was a little too much believing he was king *****. Maddan Cover, dating an actress, all the attention. He got knocked down. Self-reflection will allow him to get back up. It's a wakeup call. They will respond. I do think it would benefit to have an OC that keeps Josh in check. It should not be Steff. I am OK with McD saying play smart. That is the edge I think Daboll had. Josh needs to stop forcing, use the checkdown. We should have won by at least 10.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I can’t shake off the one image of him diving into 2 tacklers like he was flipping in the pool with 7 yards to the marker. 
 

it was the dumbest thing I’ve seen him do since the Texans playoff game lateral. 

 

maybe he just decided to get all his bad decisions out of the way in week 1. 

[The Jokeman]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think this team with average or above QB play can make the playoffs. To win the division or make a run deep in the post-season it will need the QB to be elite or close to. 

 

If Josh plays like he did Monday for 17 games..... they have no chance. 

Exactly, we need 1st half of Monday night Josh not the 2nd half. The defense set him up for the win but his turnovers were too much to over come toss in a miracle catch by Garrett Wilson, the game reminded me a lof of Minnesota's game from last year including one long run given up by the defense yet for the most part we kept the Jets (and Vikings) running game in check. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I can’t shake off the one image of him diving into 2 tacklers like he was flipping in the pool with 7 yards to the marker. 
 

it was the dumbest thing I’ve seen him do since the Texans playoff game lateral. 

 

maybe he just decided to get all his bad decisions out of the way in week 1. 

Definitely trying to impress Hailee with that one. He wanted to get a hurdle in at some point

[Buffalo Boy]

   Two years ago we lost to the Steelers in a very concerning looking way and played most of the season fairly ugly.

   Then Josh and co had two amazing games but got screwed by the coaching.

    Last year we started off looking like world beaters against the Rams and Titans and then waffled our way from there.

    This years story has yet to be written. 
    What isn’t surprising is the lack of polish and poor tackling most teams exhibited last week. 
    In October we will start to have an idea who is who within the league and then it will change again as we get to the end of the regular season. It has always been thus.

    But, every year, every fan base lose their minds early….. including this one.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, Italian Bills said:

Usually i take few days before commenting a loss, because i need to elaborate it without let my emotions drive my thoughts. 
 

That said and agreeing with all of your different analysis that can be all correct, i want to ask you this: 

 

do we still believe that the Bills can have a great season, going deep in the playoff, dunno if reaching the SB and that Josh is a top elite QB ? 
 

Or this loss changed your point of view on this judgment ? 

This single loss changed nothing, but I noticed a change in Josh last year that was concerning. He’s in a rut, a bad one. It’s fixable, he just hasn’t pulled out of it yet. Most players go through it. We’ve seen seasons where a guy has a down year. 
 

That said, I still 100% believe all our wildest dreams are still obtainable this year, and the biggest reason for that is still 17.

[Success]

It's being discussed - but it is also getting a little lost in all of the Josh Allen talk: the rest of the team looked pretty formidable.  

 

I'll grant that the Jets have a bad O-line, but our pass rush was fierce.  Floyd is an amazing addition.  Groot looks like he could be our Bruce Smith in the years ahead now.  Oliver looked very solid. Even Epenesa chipped in.

 

Bernard did well at MLB.  Milano was absolutely stellar.  The corners did their jobs nicely

 

Kincaid is who we hoped he would be, and will only get better.  Love Cook, Harris & Murray & in the backfield.  And our O-line held up well against one of the best D-lines they will face.

 

If JA can get his act together (spoiler alert: he will) - it's not a stretch to say that this year is our best chance for a title yet.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Josh needs a lobotomy or at the very least some psychological intervention. You can tell him not to do things like take hits or throw into triple coverage but he clearly is just going to do it anyways. Something in his brain is telling him this is ok or this is more fun than boring 5 yard passes. Until he works at that then nothing will change. We can win games but he can go off the deep end at any moment and we can lose to any team in the league when that happens

Perfectly said and 100% accurate. 

[BillsFanSD]

I am all-in on Allen.  I've been saying for years that he is essentially Brett Favre with Steve Young's running ability.  He is going to make some amazing plays that we all get excited about, and he is also going to make some bone-headed plays that we all get excited about.  Those are two sides of the same coin and you're not going to have the fun-exciting stuff without the irritating-exciting stuff.  I for one want to be entertained when I am watching football, and Josh Allen is nothing if not entertaining. 

 

We can absolutely win a SB with Josh Allen.  Brett Favre has a SB ring.  So does Steve Young.  So does John Elway.  Those are all good comps for Allen.  And, of course, if Eli Manning can win two SBs, then any good QB can win at least one if the stars align. 

 

It would not surprise me at all if the Bills took a step back this year.  That's not because of Allen.  It's because we haven't been able to keep up with KC or CIN or even MIA when it comes to adding non-QB talent across the roster.  We must do better here, but that doesn't have anything to do with Allen.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by BillsFanSD

[The 9 Isles]

25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Josh can be elite and win Lombardi's, but he needs to do what Brady and Manning (and now Mahomes) learned and take the easy throws.  It has nothing to do with coaching, it has to do with him realizing what wins and what doesn't.  

 

We'll be a playoff team again this year, and once you get there you always have a chance.

I might also add he needs to do the little things off the field as well. The QB series on Netflix really showed how much off site work someone like Kirk Cousins puts in.  Mahomes puts in work with specific private training. Clean up his diet can’t wouldn’t either.
 

The leadership aspect of not just being the fun buddy but also calling out people’s when they need it. 
 

He should have his management team scale back the commercials and the appearances so he can perfect his craft at which he is being compensated to the tune of a quarter of a billion dollars. 
 

these are all assumptions on my, maybe he already does all of these things to a certain extent. 
 

With how physically talented he is, if he were to commit more to being the best QB he can be could go down as one of the all time greats.
 

He could also fizzle out just like Cam Newton.