Why Are We Not Winning Superbowls?

[Ya Digg?]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

How many times in how many threads do people have to mention Josh isn’t lazy and you’re still going to ignore it? He has never said he doesn’t watch film, he has said he doesn’t over watch film. You’re not having honest conversations with people, you’re on this weird kick though of ignoring what people are saying. 
 

most on here don’t mind statements against the team as long as it is backed up. Your statements are so full of conjecture there’s no way you are going for anything other than being a troll. Your posts have become the embodiment of the Billy Madison incoherent speech meme. At least try to have substance to your posts 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I know Belichick is a defensive coach. But so is McD which is my point. Critiquing McD for being a d coach not winning a Super Bowl is an invalid argument. 

Who did?

[JohninMinn.]

Because of wide right. Its a helluva curse.

[Milanos Milano]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Who did?

It’s been said so many times on this forum i lost count. 

[Nihilarian]

Good lord, will this negative crap ever stop? Go post on the board of the team you really root for and leave this one alone. 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Araiza Curse said:

It’s been said so many times on this forum i lost count. 

They are saying we haven’t gotten to a Super Bowl because our defensive coaching has let the opposition score too much, whereas Belichick’s teams did not.  You really are clueless.

[JerseyBills]

is that you Mr Whitlock?

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

So McD is the issue and not Allen then right? 

Bro…..there isn’t ONE issue.  There have been several.  Wake up

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, NewEra said:

Bro…..there isn’t ONE issue.  There have been several.  Wake up

Whatever the issues are, there aren’t many people here that want to talk about it. Which is why other posters are ripping some posters here for being critical. 

[BuffaninSarasota]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

Yeah I think there are interviews saying as much. 

You “think” ?

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They are saying we haven’t gotten to a Super Bowl because our defensive coaching has let the opposition score too much, whereas Belichick’s teams did not.  You really are clueless.

We only scored 10 points. Unless the defense is good enough to stop the Bengals from scoring 11 points, it’s not enough. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

 

God this board is a joke right now, how many of these threads do we need spun off over people twisting words and over reacting to ridiculous click bait articles.  HE did NOT say he isn't BIG into game film.  That is not remotely what was said, this quest to spin that BS narrative is a joke.  I feel like I am living in the movie Idiocracy right now with how poorly society interprets things and twists things into all kinds of crazy narratives daily.  

 

He said he does not over indulge to what a team has done in the past because those teams often do NOT play the Bills the same and if he over commits to a previous look its often wrong because they play Allen and this offense differently...and that is because Josh Allen is not like any other QB in the league to defend.  

 

The season cant start soon enough.  So sick of all the people trying to force drama into every little thing that isn't there.  I swear like 90% of the people over reacting to this probably didn't even listen to the 30 minute interview are making all these comments and threads on sensationalized click bait headlines and posts.  

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Whatever the issues are, there aren’t many people here that want to talk about it. Which is why other posters are ripping some posters here for being critical. 

Bottom line.  There are several reasons why we haven’t won a SB.  Every reason has been discuss at length.  Wth are you talking about? 
 

 

[BuffaninSarasota]

So the OP takes a horrendous clickbait piece of trash by Whitlock then creates a red herring by somehow comparing film study between Brady and Allen. 
 

How dumb is this and how many hours until kickoff 9/11 so this stupidity stops at least temporarily? This has been the longest offseason I can recall because of stuff like this. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

God this board is a joke right now, how many of these threads do we need spun off over people twisting words and over reacting to ridiculous click bait articles.  HE did NOT say he isn't BIG into game film.  That is not remotely what was said, this quest to spin that BS narrative is a joke.  I feel like I am living in the movie Idiocracy right now with how poorly society interprets things and twists things into all kinds of crazy narratives daily.  

 

He said he does not over indulge to what a team has done in the past because those teams often do NOT play the Bills the same and if he over commits to a previous look its often wrong because they play Allen and this offense differently...and that is because Josh Allen is not like any other QB in the league to defend.  

 

The season cant start soon enough.  So sick of all the people trying to force drama into every little thing that isn't there.  I swear like 90% of the people over reacting to this probably didn't even listen to the 30 minute interview are making all these comments and threads on sensationalized click bait headlines and posts.  

Dude was out the door for a few months and now that he’s back, he wants to ruffle feathers until his next vacation

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

[Fan in Chicago]

4 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

We only scored 10 points. Unless the defense is good enough to stop the Bengals from scoring 11 points, it’s not enough. 

You started off with the first post implyinh that if Josh studied more film , he would be as good as Brady and have already won Superbowls. That in itself was a shallow post devoid of much thought. Then when challenged, you kept moving the goal posts bouncing from lack of WR to MCD's coaching. At this point you are just flailing too stay afloat when people are calling you out for your lack of details and sound logic.

 

In my 20+ years on this board, I haven't said this to many posters but I am going to channel the erstwhile DC Tom in me and say -you are an idiot

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

How does one become the best at reading defenses? Magic? Game film review? 

Time. Brady when he first entered the league was told “just don’t screw it up!”. After 10 years Brady saw every possible defense. He also had an amazing football IQ like P Manning.. I don’t know how Allen’s is but not everyone is super smart in reading defenses most are well average at it.

8 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

We only scored 10 points. Unless the defense is good enough to stop the Bengals from scoring 11 points, it’s not enough. 

OMG! The Bills were gassed and it was obvious.. I mean it took a huge performance by the O to beat the Dolphins who had a THIRD  string QB starting that game and it was at HOME! 

[Buffalo03]

 

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

How hard was Dan Marino's work ethic?

Edited September 2, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

 

Matt Stafford was a loser that put up stats for his entire career minus one.  Was he only not lazy in 1 year?

[The Wiz]

33 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

So then why doesn’t Allen sit down with Beane and tell him that? Maybe we should prioritize a  1B WR. 

And beane will do what? Pull a 1B WR out of his hat that:

wants to come to Buffalo

Fit into the salary cap

 

The problem hasn't been the outside.  It's been between the numbers. Beasley made Allen's life easy (the same way Kelce, gronk and Edelman made it easy for mahomes and Brady).

 

He didn't have that last year because McKenzie didn't pan out in the role so the middle of the field was knox(who always had to stay in and be an extra blocker since the line sucked) or a rookie RB that ran the routes wrong a quarter of the time.

 

I think with Kincaid, Harty and sherfield he will have that extra option for the easy stuff that the other two QBs live off of.

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Matt Stafford was a loser that put up stats for his entire career minus one.  Was he only not lazy in 1 year?

Not a good example… the Lions were/are a dysfunctional organization.   I like the Marino comparison.. hmm does that make Shula a lesser coach since he never won a SB with Marino? Lol

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

Brady came into a defense-run heavy league with an elite Patriots defense that for the first 3 Super Bowls kept opponents at -20 points per game. 
 

For awhile the brain trust in New England stayed ahead of the curve in trading players before they declined, finding hungry veterans, waiting for stupid teams to give away their talent for nickels, and drafting. 
 

But Brady was disciplined, and possessed the top two things for a QB: decision making and accuracy.  
 

He could read a defense, and pivoted to a structured diet. He found a personal trainer and stayed with him year over year until the end of his career.

 
His lack of arm strength is a misnomer, he improved his arm within the league. 
 

Brady was internally motivated to prove everyone wrong. 
 

Allen is coordinated, he can jump, run, better than a QB of similar size, say a Herbert. 
 

Beane talked about how in college his completion percentage looked worse than it was because he only threw 20-22 times per game, so 2-3 completions swung the percentage.

 

Starting in 2019, he got better line play and calmed his game down, making more throws to the middle of the field. He seemed to work with Jordan Palmer and improve throwing mechanics.

 

The Bills FO has done a good job of pairing Allen with veteran Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator, there is a lot of stability.

 

When it comes to laziness, Josh is not Brady or Manning in preparation, but I do think he does more than Roethlisberger who pundits in Pittsburgh said doing a yoga class was his idea of conditioning, or Jay Cutler who said he didn’t need to be in good shape because he’s a QB.

 

Brady was competitive, smart, accurate, had great pocket awareness, and just took 7 yards underneath. As time went on, he saw every defense created and learned how to defeat it. 

 

Allen has frame and coordination, and because of the arm is a playmaker. But he plays in an era where the Chiefs got the Michael Jordan of the era, and there is a slew of young QBs in the pack who have all had the same passing camps since they were 12 years old. 

 

The Bills have a good Head Coach and a good GM, but the margins are extremely thin now, and this is why I’ve said the Bills need every trick in the book to win one.

 

Because the Bills have struggled to build a dominant offensive line, or get another elite WR, that talent gap to Mahomes has not been closed enough. The Bills need more.

 

Eventually the Chiefs will lose Kelce to age and they’re not going to win every Super Bowl, but Josh’s fitness is one lever that I don’t think has been maximized. 
 

 

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I don't know if anyone knows this, but winning the Super Bowl is like really hard. I think only one team does it each year.

 

But seriously did someone pump the board full of hallucinogens and not tell me?

War, you kill me.  I’m sipping on a Mikes lemonade, read your post, and it came out my nose I laughed so hard.  Yes, some troll posters are taking some serious shrooms.,  Apparently, Aaron dark retreat Rodgers isn’t the only one who likes meditating to peyote.

[Scott7975]

57 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Is criticism against the CoC? 

 

No but trying to push an agenda and trolling is.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

 

I do not think Kelly was smart enough. You could argue he didn’t have the elite attributes either. 

 

Allen has a cannon, he is extremely athletic. He seems smart enough. So the really only other thing that could make me think why we haven’t won a Super Bowl is because he doesn’t want it enough in the film room to be the surgeon needed to win. 

He should of blown harder for Norwood's kick to sway left.  Come on man.  We could've easily won a Super Bowl with Kelly and we can with Allen.  

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Not a good example… the Lions were/are a dysfunctional organization.   I like the Marino comparison.. hmm does that make Shula a lesser coach since he never won a SB with Marino? Lol

 

But that would be moving the goal posts.  That was not the premise of the OP.  The Marino comparison is also a good one though.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Scott7975

[BuffaninSarasota]

2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The first rule of bills mafia: “there shall be no criticism of  Josh Allen”

There’s nothing wrong with valid criticism of Allen. This topic is not even close to being valid, so please stop with the unqualified oversimplification.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

When did Josh say say he wasn’t big into game film?

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/kurt-warner-s-film-breakdown-of-how-josh-allen-preys-upon-the-littlest-mistakes-
 

 

You can’t do with without studying film. 

[TheBrownBear]

This conversation about Josh's work ethic must be the dumbest f****** IeatCrayonz-worthy s*** I've ever read on this forum. 

 

Proof of Josh's work ethic = 40 regular and postseason wins over the past three seasons, top 3 QBR over last three seasons, 148 combined passing/running TDs over last three seasons (including playoffs).

 

Arguments against = playoff losses to Chiefs and Bengals and Jason Whitlock's imagination.

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

He never said he doesn't watch film or is against it. Jesus Christ people 

[BuffaninSarasota]

This thread is a glaring indictment of the Twitter “sports journalism” culture. Whitlock pimps some utter trash (grasping at straws for clicks) and the OP runs with it (to our detriment)

[TheBrownBear]

Also, I hope it has been pointed out already, but if it hasn't, Josh absolutely dominated Kansas City in the last three games against them. Yes, he played poorly against the bengals, but so did the entire team.

[TampaBillsJunkie]

2 hours ago, BillzFreak said:

So how come Dan Marino never won a championship then?

Laces out!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

Also, I hope it has been pointed out already, but if it hasn't, Josh absolutely dominated Kansas City in the last three games against them. Yes, he played poorly against the bengals, but so did the entire team.

Agreed.

 

Two hurdles, 4 TDs in one game, the dime throw to Knox, the conversion from his end zone to Gabe. 
 

He’s been ice cold killer against the Chiefs. 

[TheBrownBear]

Finally, do you guys even remember what Josh looked like in college and during his first half season with the bills? That player absolutely flames out of the NFL within 3 years if not for superior work ethic and study of the game and position.

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, Araiza Curse said:

Why, it’s an honest discussion. Seriously, Brady wasn’t athletic at all compared to Josh, and yet he still managed to win the big games. Why? Was it because he put in more time on the field to learn the ins and outs? 

I guess if there’s a dissenting opinion it’s now considered ‘trolling’ by some. Well, may as well just close the board down if there’s no room for debate. 

ok…now, I can’t say you’re wrong to question it. Brady was super competitive and is generally acknowledged to be a guy who studied the game like his life depended on it, dissected every opponent, and had a diet and exercise regiment that would extend his career. He lived to win championships. He made few public appearances doing golf, baseball games, or anything other than family events. Few players are that dedicated. 
Is Josh that dedicated? I don’t know. Maybe. But he does seem to make time for podcasts, lots of golf, etc. - things we rarely witnessed with Brady. 

It is slightly curious that Josh admits to not being a big film guy. His rationale being (paraphrasing) that he doesn’t want to get locked into a player’s tendencies only to find they’ve changed it up on game day.  If that works for him, ok.  We’ll see. I just hope he has similar obsessive desire as Brady to win a championship. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

Good lord, will this negative crap ever stop? Go post on the board of the team you really root for and leave this one alone. 

 

 

Negativity and criticism has a place on the board. To bash it often is counter productive to stimulating and valid debates back and forth. 

 

However, a criticism or positive needs to be reinforced with some legitimate reasoning, facts, stats, and opinions.  I feel the original poster has failed to meet this threshold. 

 

Just my two cents 

[Never NEVER Give-up]

3 hours ago, BillzFreak said:

So how come Dan Marino never won a championship then?

. . . . and Joe Montana just said Marino, and not Brady, was the greatest QB ever!

[Success]

Cancer Man.