Why Are We Not Winning Superbowls?

[Don Otreply]

37 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

It all because you touch yourself at night…, 

[mrags]

Just now, Araiza Curse said:

So McD is the issue and not Allen then right? 

Yes. I’ve hung myself out in that ledge for 2 years now. Since the .13 debacle. Realistically I knew before it but that sealed it for me. 
 

sounds like you are just sour on Allen like I am McClappy

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

McD is much more to blame than Allen. No question about that. 

So then why don’t people want to change that instead of wasting Allens talents? How many years wasting Allens prime do we have to continue. 

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Yes. I’ve hung myself out in that ledge for 2 years now. Since the .13 debacle. Realistically I knew before it but that sealed it for me. 
 

sounds like you are just sour on Allen like I am McClappy

I’m not exactly sour on Allen, just genuinely puzzled why this team can’t get over the hump. Allen is a gifted gifted QB with some decent talent surrounding him. Just don’t understand how an average talent QB like Brady can do it while Allen is spinning tires. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Araiza Curse said:

So then why don’t people want to change that instead of wasting Allens talents? How many years wasting Allens prime do we have to continue. 

because, genius, we remember

 

Ryan

Jauron

Mularkey

Williams

and on and on

 

AND we've seen Pegula's astute coaching hires for the Sabres. what makes YOU so sure he won't pick an utter buffoon?

 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

OP made the thread title plural so he can keep bumping this even after we win one this year.

 

Go Bills

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

because, genius, we remember

 

Ryan

Jauron

Mularkey

Williams

and on and on

 

AND we've seen Pegula's astute coaching hires for the Sabres. what makes YOU so sure he won't pick an utter buffoon?

 

I’m not so sure, but it sure is frustrating watching someone more talented than Brady not getting us a championship. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Araiza Curse

[HomeTeam]

42 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

Is that actually a fact? 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, HomeTeam said:

Is that actually a fact? 

Yeah I think there are interviews saying as much. 

[FireChans]

15 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

 

I mean this is a fair take, but don’t other Super Bowl champion QBs also have to play hard teams to get there? So what sets them apart. What seems the most odd is how an unathletic Brady can win 7. What is the secret sauce? It must be that he was just elite in the game film to diagnose defenses. 

Tom Brady won 6 because he had the greatest coach in NFL history. He won #7 because he had the most talented team in the NFL.

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

So then why don’t people want to change that instead of wasting Allens talents? How many years wasting Allens prime do we have to continue. 

I’m not exactly sour on Allen, just genuinely puzzled why this team can’t get over the hump. Allen is a gifted gifted QB with some decent talent surrounding him. Just don’t understand how an average talent QB like Brady can do it while Allen is spinning tires. 

Well. If you can’t figure it out. Even after everyone here trying to explain. Im afraid you’ll just never get it. Enjoy your Labor Day 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

 

I mean this is a fair take, but don’t other Super Bowl champion QBs also have to play hard teams to get there? So what sets them apart. What seems the most odd is how an unathletic Brady can win 7. What is the secret sauce? It must be that he was just elite in the game film to diagnose defenses. 

Not everyone has the secret sauce.  There’s only been 1 Tom Brady in history.  No one is close when it comes to winning super bowls.  Why didn’t Dan Marino win ONE Super Bowl?  Was it because he didn’t watch enough film?  
 

You’re asking if ONE thing (Josh Allen’s film work or lack thereof) is the reason we aren’t winning super bowls.  The answer is a resounding no.  

[HomeTeam]

1 minute ago, Araiza Curse said:

Yeah I think there are interviews saying as much. 

Well if that's true, that's concerning.

[billieve420]

Going to cut team some slack last year due to the injuries, travel, and Hamlin situation. However, historically team has always proven to be out coached and mentally weak. Seemed like when another team smacked them in the mouth and got physical with them they ended up caving. Will be a disappointing season if team doesn’t at least make the AFC championship game.

[Mango]

We’ve spent a lot over the last few years with a top paid OL, DE, and LB Corp. to never be too 3 at either position group. 
 

I think it starts there then add on 3 RB’s and DE in the top 100 over the last few drafts that didn’t quite pan out. 
 

Just a culmination of a few things.

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Not everyone has the secret sauce.  There’s only been 1 Tom Brady in history.  No one is close when it comes to winning super bowls.  Why didn’t Dan Marino win ONE Super Bowl?  Was it because he didn’t watch enough film?  
 

You’re asking if ONE thing (Josh Allen’s film work or lack thereof) is the reason we aren’t winning super bowls.  The answer is a resounding no.  

Ah, well, OP is a troll of very little brain. You are going to overload his limited cranial capacity if you try to get him to grasp anything that goes beyond "must be Josh."  

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, NewEra said:

Not everyone has the secret sauce.  There’s only been 1 Tom Brady in history.  No one is close when it comes to winning super bowls.  Why didn’t Dan Marino win ONE Super Bowl?  Was it because he didn’t watch enough film?  
 

You’re asking if ONE thing (Josh Allen’s film work or lack thereof) is the reason we aren’t winning super bowls.  The answer is a resounding no.  

Then what is it? Brady never really had elite receiving options. Mahomes lost Hill and still put up elite numbers. If we lost Diggs would Allen still put up elite numbers? I’m not exactly sure. 

Dan Marino issue is that he had a terrible team, that organization was bad at giving him elite talent. If the Bills had Marino, they likely win 1 or 2 Super Bowl over Kelly. Marino never had a Smith, Reed, or Thomas and other all pros. 

[whorlnut]

The OP’s name is “Araiza Curse”. Enough said. He’s a troll. The Bills had absolutely nothing to do with what happened to Matt Araiza. No team in the league would have held into him. Trolling at its finest. 

[McBean]

54 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

Because Sean McDermott isn’t a great coach.

[newcam2012]

52 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

Come on now. Allen is not the problem. The guy is elite and the primary reason why the Bills win games and have so many consecutive playoff appearances. 

 

Your implications are pretty unfounded and your comparison to Brady isn't painting a true picture here. 

 

There are several reasons why the Bills haven't advanced further. It's not on Allen. 

51 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I swear to god this is the most negative fan forum in all of professional sports. 

Negative criticism isn't a bad thing so long as it's valid and backed up with legitimate facts, stats, and opinions. 

 

This original poster lacks that...

[Dr. Who]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Come on now. Allen is not the problem. The guy is elite and the primary reason why the Bills win games and have so many consecutive playoff appearances. 

 

Your implications are pretty unfounded and your comparison to Brady isn't painting a true picture here. 

 

There are several reasons why the Bills haven't advanced further. It's not on Allen. 

Negative criticism isn't a bad thing so long as it's valid and backed up with legitimate facts, stats, and opinions. 

 

This original poster lacks that...

Now here's a fella that understands negative posting. Don't you boys have a union or something?

As you point out, this slip shod work is going to reflect badly on the realists.

[RobbRiddick]

55 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

I swear to god this is the most negative fan forum in all of professional sports. 

You should visit the Houston Oilers one. Those guys are so miserable you'd think they hadn't won a game for 23 years

[newcam2012]

45 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Because Brady wanted it more than Rivers did. Brady studied the film harder than anyone I know. He was a surgeon on the field. That is what it takes to be great. Doing the little things despite not having the raw elite skill set. 

Brady's vision was just simply better than anyone who ever played. 

 

His will to win was off the charts so i get what you are saying. However, the QB spot is more than just wanting it and studying film. Your Brady example is far too inaccurate when it comes to comparing Allen. 

 

Brady was the best to ever play the game. 

[Draconator]

I am on a 30-day cleanse. Cutting out breads, most sugars, dairy, and no alcohol. 

This thread, however? Let me go pour a double Gin drink.  Geesh. 

[NickelCity]

Wants to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread....makes a post that belongs in that thread...

[BigPappaPump]

So how many Super Bowls did Brady win without Gronk? How many with Moss? Don’t act like poor little tommy didn’t have talent. He’s always had some above average offensive coordinators too. He also always had a top defense that definitely helps the offense. Remember Matt Casell winning a bunch of games the year Brady went down. 
  Point is, we don’t know the work Josh puts in, just like we don’t know how much work Brady put in. 

[newcam2012]

27 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

So then why don’t people want to change that instead of wasting Allens talents? How many years wasting Allens prime do we have to continue. 

I’m not exactly sour on Allen, just genuinely puzzled why this team can’t get over the hump. Allen is a gifted gifted QB with some decent talent surrounding him. Just don’t understand how an average talent QB like Brady can do it while Allen is spinning tires. 

Average talent like Brady? Are you kidding me? 

 

It's pretty simple. Let me explain.

 

You are getting lost or enamored on physical talent such as arm strength. Yes Allen is physically gifted. Yes more gifted than Brady. However, you think physical tools is the only attribute and measuring stick to QB success? Surely, you can't think that. 

 

The first few persons that come to mind are Jeff George, James Winston, and Cam Newton. Huge arms and physical talent. 

 

Now let's look at someone like Drew Breeze. Lacks huge arm strength but accuracy is off the charts. Student of the game.

 

Bottom line is there is no magical formula for measuring success of a QB. Physical talent is extremely important but so is vision, accuracy, and lots of intangibles.

 

Your crusade to criticize Allen and compare him to Brady is pretty disingenuous. At best, wildly inaccurate. 

11 minutes ago, Draconator said:

I am on a 30-day cleanse. Cutting out breads, most sugars, dairy, and no alcohol. 

This thread, however? Let me go pour a double Gin drink.  Geesh. 

Thanks for the laugh.

[billsfan89]

The Bills the past three seasons have had the roster to contend but have come up short three times for various reasons. 

 

2020 - Got to the AFCCG but lost to a more experienced KC team. The Bills also suffered injuries to literally all of their receivers by the time they got to the AFCCG. Beasley go hurt to end the regular season, John Brown battled an ankle injury, Gabe Davis got hurt against the Ravens and Diggs got hurt early in the AFCCG. The only healthy receiver was Mac for most of that game. So combined with the relative inexperience of the team and the injuries to the WR corps led to a bad showing against the defending champions.

 

2021 - 13 seconds cost this team a real shot at the Super Bowl. Had the Bills simply been able to Squibb the ball or make one decent defensive play they would have gone to host the AFCCG against a Bengals team that had a terrible offensive line. 2021 was simply a choke by this team and inexcusable. 

 

2022 - The Bills despite the talent they had and hosting the game in the divisional round simply ran out of gas from an emotionally exhausting season. Even before Hamlin's situation, they started the off-season with the Topps shooting and then ended training camp with the passing of Knox's younger brother. Then in season they had a game relocated due to a freak snowstorm (which coincided with a flu outbreak) and then had their Christmas day travel nearly thrown off due to another bad snow storm.

 

They also had a decent amount of "normal" football adversity including seeing Dane get carted off in the home opener and had a lot of nagging injuries early on plus serious season-ending injuries to Hyde and Von both vet leaders on the team. THEN you had the Hamlin situation and the team was just out of gas mentally which I honestly think is understandable. The 2022 Bills probably had the most adversity off the field as any team individually has had since the 2007 Redskins who had Sean Taylor die in season tragically and the 2005 Saints who had to relocate right before the season started due to Hurricane Katrina. 

 

As far as team-building errors? The front office did as good of a job as they could realistically do from 2017-2020. The 2017 and 2018 drafts were outstanding and the 2019 draft was solid. 2020 they pulled off the much-needed "big move" with the Diggs trade. But I think the errors this team made started in 2021 and 2022 with over-investing in the defense. 2021 they could have spent the Boogie pick on offense and 2022 they could have invested the Elam and Bernard picks onto the offense. The team also could have spent the Von Miller cash on a big offensive weapon. No front office is perfect but investing most of your premium picks on defense and your biggest free agency contract on defense was a mistake. They have somewhat changed that with the first two picks being on offense in 2023.

 

TLDR: 2020 the team was still getting experience and had an abnormal amount of WR injuries, 2021 was a complete choke and in 2022 the team was drained due to an emotionally exhausting season. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by billsfan89

[Mr. WEO]

OP should suffer Araiza’s fate for dropping this   steaming deuce

Edited September 2, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

Why, it’s an honest discussion. Seriously, Brady wasn’t athletic at all compared to Josh, and yet he still managed to win the big games. Why? Was it because he put in more time on the field to learn the ins and outs? 

Cheating helps.

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

OP should suffer Araiza’s fate for dropping this   steaming deuce

Is criticism against the CoC? 

[HaldimandBills]

Josh Allen goes to bed dreaming about Brady's oline during those Patriot Superbowl years.

 

Josh Allen goes to bed dreaming about having those Patriot run games that weren't blown up 5 yards in the backfield and a successful run is gaining 1 yard. Our starting RB last year is a back up this year on a bottom three offensive roster...

 

Josh Allen goes to sleep dreaming of having a 3rd receiver better than Isiah Mckenzie. A guy who couldn't even make the Colts roster. Another bottom 3 roster for offensive talent.

 

Josh Allen goes to sleep dreaming of having better redzone threats than no separation off the line Gabe Davis, no recievers who can block to help the run game, Isiah Mckenzie as your third target being 5 foot 7 with no ability to beat a zone defense. Dawson Knox being forced to help Spencer Brown because Brown is consistently beat by undrafted rookies. 

 

Let's blame Josh Allen though. Tell me you can't analyze football, without telling me you can't analyze football.

Edited September 2, 2023 by HaldimandBills

[The Wiz]

56 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

If Allen doesn’t have an issue reading defenses, then why did our offense only score 12 points against the Bengals in the playoffs? 

You know it's actually possible to read a defense and find out that there are no good options?

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

Is criticism against the CoC? 

“Josh isn’t Tom Brady” isn’t a meaningful criticism.

 

yo have no idea how Allen prepares, yet you decided (anyway) to start a THIRD thread off the Whitlock comments.

 

this is really bad LAMP nonsense.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

The level of competition in the AFC is so much better today than when Brady was in his prime.  There's a reason he bolted for the NFC when he left the Pats.  All the great QBs are in the AFC.

[Milanos Milano]

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

You know it's actually possible to read a defense and find out that there are no good options?

So then why doesn’t Allen sit down with Beane and tell him that? Maybe we should prioritize a  1B WR. 

Just now, jkeerie said:

The level of competition in the AFC is so much better today than when Brady was in his prime.  There's a reason he bolted for the NFC when he left the Pats.  All the great QBs are in the AFC.

Lol Brady beat Mahomes in the Super Bowl. 

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, Araiza Curse said:

So then why doesn’t Allen sit down with Beane and tell him that? Maybe we should prioritize a  1B WR. 

Lol Brady beat Mahomes in the Super Bowl. 

That Bucs defense beat Mahomes in the SB!  Remember half of his starting oline was out IIRC.

 

Plus...you're talking about one game.  You've got to play 17 and win most of them to even get to the SB.

Edited September 2, 2023 by jkeerie

[Herc11]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

 

Belichick is a defensive coach? 

 

How in the hell is this a surprise to you? 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

I want to spin this off from the Josh is lazy thread, and really debate this at face value. Let’s look at other QBs and their “work ethic” “talent abilities” and compare them to get a better idea of why. Let’s start with Tom Brady. 

 

Everyone here knows that Tom Brady is one of the least athletic QBs and yet he always had solid statistics and always knew where to place the ball. 

 

Everyone here knows that Josh Allen is one of the most athletic QBs. 

 

Josh has admitted he isn’t big into game film. But the more you dig into what it takes to be great, the more concerning that seems to be. How is it that Tom Brady can win so many super bowls with lower tier athleticism and arm strength and yet Josh Allen with his superior skill set has been unable to win even 1 Super Bowl? 

 

Tom Brady never really had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time outside of Moss, and yet he still always managed to keep the chains moving and put up points enough to win games. 

Josh Allen has had a true #1 WR for an extended period of time Diggs, and yet still unable to get over the hump. 

 

So I think questions around Allen’s “laziness” is warranted. Why should an elite talented QB be struggling more than a non elite talented QB?  

 

The only real difference is football IQ and studying the game to the point were you can attack and become a master despite not having elite traits. 

 

 

Maybe I’m wrong in this thinking, and others can chime in. But things do seem to not add up. 

He did not admit what you are saying.  What the hell is wrong with you?

1 hour ago, Araiza Curse said:

He never really had an elite team. The organization during his tenure was bad at best. 

Belichick is a defensive coach? 

Belichick us a defensive coach?  My God.  Go back and watch our first Super Bowl.  What a moron.

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He did not admit what you are saying.  What the hell is wrong with you?

Belichick us a defensive coach?  My God.  Go back and watch our first Super Bowl.  What a moron.

I know Belichick is a defensive coach. But so is McD which is my point. Critiquing McD for being a d coach not winning a Super Bowl is an invalid argument. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The first rule of bills mafia: “there shall be no criticism of  Josh Allen”