Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[GunnerBill]

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take:

 

 

Good Night for...

 

The Running Backs - First things first, this is James Cook's job. All the "he can't be an RB1" naysayers are about to be proven wrong. Not only did he have a touchdown run on a nicely set up and executed (loved Trent Sherfield's block) outside rush but he showed nice burst and toughness running inside on a couple of plays too. I think he has better vision than the guy he is replacing and while I am fine with giving him a few snaps with Josh just to make sure they have mesh points down etc, I don't need to see much more of him this pre-season. Behind Cook Latavius Murray (whose roster spot has felt safe since a jet ski took care of Nyheim Hines' knee) took advantage of Damien Harris's absence to show he still has some burst in those old legs and Jordan Mims (highlighted in my sleepers thread before the draft) took his opportunity too. He might have only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, but he had a couple of nice bursts and a catch and run that showed his natural feel as a receiving back. He isn't a breakaway speed home run hitter but his vision really stands out and he sees the right gap instinctively. I don't think he will make the 53 but if the Bills are able to sneak him through to the PS he is someone more than able to step in if Harris's injury troubles catch up to him again. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did Cryus take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. 

 

Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. 

 

Ryan Van Demark - The former UConn tackle came into the NFL as an UDFA of the Colts last year, but after being let go in final cuts declined an offer to join the Colts Practice Squad in order to join the Bills. After a year on the practice squad I have seen Astro's camp reports mention him a couple of times as a guy who has had some run with the 2nd team O Line in camp. Yesterday he was the left tackle on the 2nd line for the first drive that line was in. Then Quess replaced him but he came back as the left tackle of the 3rd line, switching to the right side when the luckless Tommy Doyle got hurt. It's fair to say tackle depth behind the starters is a question on this roster, but Van Demark looked good at both spots last night, and if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy!

 

The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Kyle Allen - Wow he was bad. Allen made a couple of nice throws but generally he just looked so uncomfortable back there. It looked like a guy who doesn't understand the offense, doesn't understand his reads and has no feel for the position. His feet were never settled, he was constantly moving even in pretty good pockets and twice he actually moved himself into pressure when if he stayed where he was and kept his eyes downfield he had oodles of time to make a throw. He played frenzied like a guy for whom it was all happening too quickly. The interception was mainly on him. Sure, Shavers should have caught it, but he threw a 5 yard receiver screen 3 yards off target. How the ***** is that possible? He was horrible. Not helped by the fact that as soon as Barkley stepped in he immediately looked comfortable, was just dropping back, executing reads and getting the ball out of his hands. Okay Allen played against starters and 2nd teamers; Barkley played against 2nd teamers and 3rd teamers but Allen was 8/15 with an INT and Barkley was 14/15 with 2 TDs. At the moment Kyle Allen is the 3rd best Quarterback on the roster.

 

Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. 

 

Ike Boettger - Man that was a tough watch. I have been an Ike guy since the Bills picked him up as an UDFA out of Iowa back in 2018. He was a classic Iowa lineman, tough and well coached technically even if he lacked the physical attributes to stand out. And in 2020 (in particular) he played really well for the Bills as a starter for much of the year. He was then a serviceable backup in 2021 before breaking his ankle late in the year. And while he played a handful of snaps at the end of the blow out in Chicago last year this was his first proper run since and he just does not look the same guy. He could barely move out there, didn't seem to have any confidence pushing off the ankle at all and was beaten on multiple plays. Maybe it was just a bad night, but it does kinda reflect what we have heard from camp. I suspect he is going to be a painful cut for the organisation when the time comes. I am told he is a really popular guy in the locker room. 

 

Jace Sternberger - It was really interesting to note that the Bills ran a TON of 12 personnel with the 1st team offense and the 2nd team offense last night. Again once the full game replay is up I'll try and go back and count but I reckon it was something like 60% of their snaps with the first two units. Kincaid and Knox were out there together and the Quintin Morris and Joel Wilson were the combo for the second unit. That means Sternberger is 5th of 5 on the depth chart and when he got his shot he caught a nice pass, and immediately had it knocked out for a fumble. I was excited about his addition given his USFL success and the fact I liked him coming out of Texas A&M in that same draft as Knox. But he faces a major uphill battle to make the team now and even the PS doesn't seem a guarantee. 

 

The Linebacker Shuffle - As expected Tyrel Dodson got the start at MLB. He did okay in the run game, was in on a couple of tackles, but he didn't inspire much confidence with his zone drops against the pass. He looked a bit like what he is. A backup level player who isn't a liability out there but is noticeably not at the level of much of the supporting cast. He was at least calling the defense when he was out there by the looks of it. He played through with the second unit as well with Dorian Williams who flashed his closing speed and coverage ability in the pass game but also showed with his run fits and taking on of blocks exactly why the Bills have quickly ruled him out of the conversation at MIKE. AJ Klein was the next man through after Dodson and again, looked what he is... an older less athletic guy who is okay moving vertically but struggles moving laterally. At the moment both options in the middle look like compromises. Braylon Spector got some late run with the 3s but was erratic in his play and if he makes this roster he makes it for special teams only. It might have been a good night for Terrel Bernard by virtue of him not playing. 

 

 

Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by GunnerBill

[PrimeTime101]

Elam shined when it was bump and run and when asked to take on someone at the los, he did very well. I think he pinched on a HB very well to,  Dane and that INT might of locked it up for him but for me, Elam still shows lots of promise. 

 

MLB SMH i dont even know where to start.

 

And did Barkley just take over the #2 QB? That was rough. I do think Kyle just lost his #2 spot... And I think we should consider bringing in another backup for maybe a 6th rounder just to have a look at another player...

 

Cook looked fantastic! had another running play called back on a hold I think it was but yea... Cook looked uh.. scarry.

 

Shakir might be a lost cause if he cant cure the dropsies... fast.

[Son of a K-Gun]

I’ll add that Elam made a play when he had Anthony Richardson barreling down on him one-on-one with a head of steam.  Nothing flashy, just held his position and made the play with help arriving quickly.  He was giving up a lot of size on that play and his run defense was a criticism this time last year, so nice to see some development.

[Dave_Bills]

Boettger was a touch watch. He’s been a good soldier but that was rough

[Lost]

Good assessment Gunner.

 

18 minutes ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

I’ll add that Elam made a play when he had Anthony Richardson barreling down on him one-on-one with a head of steam.  Nothing flashy, just held his position and made the play with help arriving quickly.  He was giving up a lot of size on that play and his run defense was a criticism this time last year, so nice to see some development.

 

I thought Elam's tackling has been quietly improved so far this offseason if that was a knock on him.   He needs to get the hands under control though.  McD seemed visibly frustrated with the sloppiness and penalties yesterday. 

 

Speaking of tackling.  Loved seeing how Damar was getting right into plays and making tackles with no hesitation, pretty amazing.   

 

 I want to see more Dorian Williams next week and also how well Kincaid holds up blocking in the run game or matched up in press coverage. 

 

I don't ever want to see Kyle Allen on the field again.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Gunner - Thanks for the write-up, has to miss the game here.  You don’t mention Evans at RB.  You see him making PS too, or just cut altogether?

 

And you bring up Boogie being traded.  I agree they should be trying to trade one of these edge guys if they can, since they all can’t make the squad.  Have you considered AJE being the trade candidate instead of Basham, given there’s an extra year on Basham’s rookie contract?  If the Bills don’t think they’ll be able to re-sign AJE next season, might as well try and get even a late round pick for him now.

[muppy]

Bills first preseason game cliff notes for easy reference which I do appreciate.

 

I wasn't able to view the game but this tells me your astute opinion.  Hope springs eternal the cream does indeed rise to the top

 

Go Bills!

[Dr. K]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How did O’Cyrus play?

You’re kidding, right? Gunner wrote a whole evaluation of him.

[nkreed]

7 minutes ago, Lost said:

Good assessment Gunner.

 

 

I thought Elam's tackling has been quietly improved so far this offseason if that was a knock on him.   He needs to get the hands under control though.  McD seemed visibly frustrated with the sloppiness and penalties yesterday. 

 

Speaking of tackling.  Loved seeing how Damar was getting right into plays and making tackles with no hesitation, pretty amazing.   

 

 I want to see more Dorian Williams next week and also how well Kincaid holds up blocking in the run game or matched up in press coverage. 

 

I don't ever want to see Kyle Allen on the field again.

The only time I noticed Kincaid in the game was a terrible attempt at a block when lined up in line. He totally whiffed and his assignment tackled the RB in the backfield. (Can't remember when but he was on Left side of line)

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. 

 

 

 

 

If Isabella is able to claim a spot on the 53, do you think either of Shorter or Shakir could be safely stashed on the practice squad? 

 

Will this current Bills team ever keep 7 WR's? Is this a year they could? 

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

You’re kidding, right? Gunner wrote a whole evaluation of him.

No he didn’t.  He just said he took all the first team snaps and feels the competition is over.  I’m looking for how he looked while on the field.

[Chaos]

6 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Shorter or Shakir could be safely stashed on the practice squad?

Shorter could. Shakir would be gone instantly.  

[RichRiderBills]

As of now, I think Shaver or Isabella is going to be that last WR slot. 

 

Shorterer behind the 8 ball. 

[Dr. K]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

No he didn’t.  He just said he took all the first team snaps and feels the competition is over.  I’m looking for how he looked while on the field.

"He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing."

 

[Shaw66]

Thanks, Gunner. 

 

Any observations on McGovern and Rapp?

[RichRiderBills]

My ultimate take from our lower depth chart WRs doing so good is it was testament to how Barkley played. He was en Fuego. Would have been even better behind better lineman. 

 

That being said also loved Dezmond Patmon. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by RichRiderBills

[benderbender]

Kaiir was just watching Sauce Gardner highlights and can't understand why the refs don't swallow the whistle for him.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How did O’Cyrus play?

Did you actually read it?

[Royale with Cheese]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Hangover? 

LOL…I see it now.

 

The sentence before the write up was “Bates played exclusively at 2nd team center…”  So I thought he was talking about Bates with the write up.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take:

 

 

Good Night for...

 

The Running Backs - First things first, this is James Cook's job. All the "he can't be an RB1" naysayers are about to be proven wrong. Not only did he have a touchdown run on a nicely set up and executed (loved Trent Sherfield's block) outside rush but he showed nice burst and toughness running inside on a couple of plays too. I think he has better vision than the guy he is replacing and while I am fine with giving him a few snaps with Josh just to make sure they have mesh points down etc, I don't need to see much more of him this pre-season. Behind Cook Latavius Murray (whose roster spot has felt safe since a jet ski took care of Nyheim Hines' knee) took advantage of Damien Harris's absence to show he still has some burst in those old legs and Jordan Mims (highlighted in my sleepers thread before the draft) took his opportunity too. He might have only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, but he had a couple of nice bursts and a catch and run that showed his natural feel as a receiving back. He isn't a breakaway speed home run hitter but his vision really stands out and he sees the right gap instinctively. I don't think he will make the 53 but if the Bills are able to sneak him through to the PS he is someone more than able to step in if Harris's injury troubles catch up to him again. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did he take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. 

 

Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. 

 

Ryan Van Demark - The former UConn tackle came into the NFL as an UDFA of the Colts last year, but after being let go in final cuts declined an offer to join the Colts Practice Squad in order to join the Bills. After a year on the practice squad I have seen Astro's camp reports mention him a couple of times as a guy who has had some run with the 2nd team O Line in camp. Yesterday he was the left tackle on the 2nd line for the first drive that line was in. Then Quess replaced him but he came back as the left tackle of the 3rd line, switching to the right side when the luckless Tommy Doyle got hurt. It's fair to say tackle depth behind the starters is a question on this roster, but Van Demark looked good at both spots last night, and if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy!

 

The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Kyle Allen - Wow he was bad. Allen made a couple of nice throws but generally he just looked so uncomfortable back there. It looked like a guy who doesn't understand the offense, doesn't understand his reads and has no feel for the position. His feet were never settled, he was constantly moving even in pretty good pockets and twice he actually moved himself into pressure when if he stayed where he was and kept his eyes downfield he had oodles of time to make a throw. He played frenzied like a guy for whom it was all happening too quickly. The interception was mainly on him. Sure, Shavers should have caught it, but he threw a 5 yard receiver screen 3 yards off target. How the ***** is that possible? He was horrible. Not helped by the fact that as soon as Barkley stepped in he immediately looked comfortable, was just dropping back, executing reads and getting the ball out of his hands. Okay Allen played against starters and 2nd teamers; Barkley played against 2nd teamers and 3rd teamers but Allen was 8/15 with an INT and Barkley was 14/15 with 2 TDs. At the moment Kyle Allen is the 3rd best Quarterback on the roster.

 

Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. 

 

Ike Boettger - Man that was a tough watch. I have been an Ike guy since the Bills picked him up as an UDFA out of Iowa back in 2018. He was a classic Iowa lineman, tough and well coached technically even if he lacked the physical attributes to stand out. And in 2020 (in particular) he played really well for the Bills as a starter for much of the year. He was then a serviceable backup in 2021 before breaking his ankle late in the year. And while he played a handful of snaps at the end of the blow out in Chicago last year this was his first proper run since and he just does not look the same guy. He could barely move out there, didn't seem to have any confidence pushing off the ankle at all and was beaten on multiple plays. Maybe it was just a bad night, but it does kinda reflect what we have heard from camp. I suspect he is going to be a painful cut for the organisation when the time comes. I am told he is a really popular guy in the locker room. 

 

Jace Sternberger - It was really interesting to note that the Bills ran a TON of 12 personnel with the 1st team offense and the 2nd team offense last night. Again once the full game replay is up I'll try and go back and count but I reckon it was something like 60% of their snaps with the first two units. Kincaid and Knox were out there together and the Quintin Morris and Joel Wilson were the combo for the second unit. That means Sternberger is 5th of 5 on the depth chart and when he got his shot he caught a nice pass, and immediately had it knocked out for a fumble. I was excited about his addition given his USFL success and the fact I liked him coming out of Texas A&M in that same draft as Knox. But he faces a major uphill battle to make the team now and even the PS doesn't seem a guarantee. 

 

The Linebacker Shuffle - As expected Tyrel Dodson got the start at MLB. He did okay in the run game, was in on a couple of tackles, but he didn't inspire much confidence with his zone drops against the pass. He looked a bit like what he is. A backup level player who isn't a liability out there but is noticeably not at the level of much of the supporting cast. He was at least calling the defense when he was out there by the looks of it. He played through with the second unit as well with Dorian Williams who flashed his closing speed and coverage ability in the pass game but also showed with his run fits and taking on of blocks exactly why the Bills have quickly ruled him out of the conversation at MIKE. AJ Klein was the next man through after Dodson and again, looked what he is... an older less athletic guy who is okay moving vertically but struggles moving laterally. At the moment both options in the middle look like compromises. Braylon Spector got some late run with the 3s but was erratic in his play and if he makes this roster he makes it for special teams only. It might have been a good night for Terrel Bernard by virtue of him not playing. 

 

 

Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

 

Kyle Allen looks to me like a guy who didn’t bother to put the time in learning the offense over the offseason.  The pick six was mutual responsibility.  Shavers should have caught it, but Kyle double clutched and threw it way too hard and wide (it doesn’t show on the TV feed, but in the stadium the whole thing looked like a disaster from double clutch to launch).  
 

Boettger, sadly, looks cooked.  
 

shavers has an NFL body but the hands .  Ateman played fast and flashed, as did Isabella.  I don’t think shorter is a lock by any stretch.  He might get the Hodgins treatment and redshirt for a year on IR.  

Edited August 13, 2023 by SectionC3

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Did you actually read it?

See my post to Scott.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Great summary, especially for those of us who couldn’t watch. Did you get any impressions about Cook’s pass pro or lack thereof?

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take:

 

 

Good Night for...

 

The Running Backs - First things first, this is James Cook's job. All the "he can't be an RB1" naysayers are about to be proven wrong. Not only did he have a touchdown run on a nicely set up and executed (loved Trent Sherfield's block) outside rush but he showed nice burst and toughness running inside on a couple of plays too. I think he has better vision than the guy he is replacing and while I am fine with giving him a few snaps with Josh just to make sure they have mesh points down etc, I don't need to see much more of him this pre-season. Behind Cook Latavius Murray (whose roster spot has felt safe since a jet ski took care of Nyheim Hines' knee) took advantage of Damien Harris's absence to show he still has some burst in those old legs and Jordan Mims (highlighted in my sleepers thread before the draft) took his opportunity too. He might have only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, but he had a couple of nice bursts and a catch and run that showed his natural feel as a receiving back. He isn't a breakaway speed home run hitter but his vision really stands out and he sees the right gap instinctively. I don't think he will make the 53 but if the Bills are able to sneak him through to the PS he is someone more than able to step in if Harris's injury troubles catch up to him again. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did he take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. 

 

Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. 

 

Ryan Van Demark - The former UConn tackle came into the NFL as an UDFA of the Colts last year, but after being let go in final cuts declined an offer to join the Colts Practice Squad in order to join the Bills. After a year on the practice squad I have seen Astro's camp reports mention him a couple of times as a guy who has had some run with the 2nd team O Line in camp. Yesterday he was the left tackle on the 2nd line for the first drive that line was in. Then Quess replaced him but he came back as the left tackle of the 3rd line, switching to the right side when the luckless Tommy Doyle got hurt. It's fair to say tackle depth behind the starters is a question on this roster, but Van Demark looked good at both spots last night, and if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy!

 

The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Kyle Allen - Wow he was bad. Allen made a couple of nice throws but generally he just looked so uncomfortable back there. It looked like a guy who doesn't understand the offense, doesn't understand his reads and has no feel for the position. His feet were never settled, he was constantly moving even in pretty good pockets and twice he actually moved himself into pressure when if he stayed where he was and kept his eyes downfield he had oodles of time to make a throw. He played frenzied like a guy for whom it was all happening too quickly. The interception was mainly on him. Sure, Shavers should have caught it, but he threw a 5 yard receiver screen 3 yards off target. How the ***** is that possible? He was horrible. Not helped by the fact that as soon as Barkley stepped in he immediately looked comfortable, was just dropping back, executing reads and getting the ball out of his hands. Okay Allen played against starters and 2nd teamers; Barkley played against 2nd teamers and 3rd teamers but Allen was 8/15 with an INT and Barkley was 14/15 with 2 TDs. At the moment Kyle Allen is the 3rd best Quarterback on the roster.

 

Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. 

 

Ike Boettger - Man that was a tough watch. I have been an Ike guy since the Bills picked him up as an UDFA out of Iowa back in 2018. He was a classic Iowa lineman, tough and well coached technically even if he lacked the physical attributes to stand out. And in 2020 (in particular) he played really well for the Bills as a starter for much of the year. He was then a serviceable backup in 2021 before breaking his ankle late in the year. And while he played a handful of snaps at the end of the blow out in Chicago last year this was his first proper run since and he just does not look the same guy. He could barely move out there, didn't seem to have any confidence pushing off the ankle at all and was beaten on multiple plays. Maybe it was just a bad night, but it does kinda reflect what we have heard from camp. I suspect he is going to be a painful cut for the organisation when the time comes. I am told he is a really popular guy in the locker room. 

 

Jace Sternberger - It was really interesting to note that the Bills ran a TON of 12 personnel with the 1st team offense and the 2nd team offense last night. Again once the full game replay is up I'll try and go back and count but I reckon it was something like 60% of their snaps with the first two units. Kincaid and Knox were out there together and the Quintin Morris and Joel Wilson were the combo for the second unit. That means Sternberger is 5th of 5 on the depth chart and when he got his shot he caught a nice pass, and immediately had it knocked out for a fumble. I was excited about his addition given his USFL success and the fact I liked him coming out of Texas A&M in that same draft as Knox. But he faces a major uphill battle to make the team now and even the PS doesn't seem a guarantee. 

 

The Linebacker Shuffle - As expected Tyrel Dodson got the start at MLB. He did okay in the run game, was in on a couple of tackles, but he didn't inspire much confidence with his zone drops against the pass. He looked a bit like what he is. A backup level player who isn't a liability out there but is noticeably not at the level of much of the supporting cast. He was at least calling the defense when he was out there by the looks of it. He played through with the second unit as well with Dorian Williams who flashed his closing speed and coverage ability in the pass game but also showed with his run fits and taking on of blocks exactly why the Bills have quickly ruled him out of the conversation at MIKE. AJ Klein was the next man through after Dodson and again, looked what he is... an older less athletic guy who is okay moving vertically but struggles moving laterally. At the moment both options in the middle look like compromises. Braylon Spector got some late run with the 3s but was erratic in his play and if he makes this roster he makes it for special teams only. It might have been a good night for Terrel Bernard by virtue of him not playing. 

 

 

Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

 

 

 

Agree with all of that.   Especially that Kyle Allen was really bad.   You'd expect a lot quicker and better decision making from a 6th year veteran.   That play where he got spun around by the pass rush and flung the ball to Latavius Murray 5 yards behind the LOS was turnover worthy.   You gotta' dirt that ball.   Same with that WR screen to Shavers.   A veteran QB has to see when a play has zero chance for success.    The fact that Barkley looked good after Kyle Allen departed only adds to the concern because we know how bad Barkley actually is.      

[Virgil]

Agreed overall.  As the game started, I immediately thought boogie was out there as a showcase for potential trade bait. 
 

I feel really bad for all the receivers in the first half. Just a wasted opportunity for them to show their stuff with Allen at qb.  For them alone, I hope Barkley gets the nod after Josh next week.  These guys deserve a chance too. 
 

I’m not concerned about the Elam/Jackson battle as much as I am making sure Tre looks fully back.  I think this team has a lot of tough financial decisions coming up and draft picks will be huge for them.  I’M NOT saying trade Elam, but I think they might want to move one of them.  
 

It was hard to judge so much of the defense because you know they weren’t showing their hand or tailoring the plays to the Colts.  I was hoping to see more of Rapp in the hybrid spot.  

[Ya Digg?]

39 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

If Isabella is able to claim a spot on the 53, do you think either of Shorter or Shakir could be safely stashed on the practice squad? 

 

Will this current Bills team ever keep 7 WR's? Is this a year they could? 

This happens every year, and this year Shorter seems to be the guy. Teams aren’t lining up to get a guy drafted in the 5th round and immediately sign them to their team. There are 5th, 6th, 7th round guys, guys in their 2nd/3rd years fighting to make teams, and I can pretty much guarantee most if not all on here wouldn’t be able to name those guys, just like we couldn’t name those teams guys. The point I’m trying to make is every team has these types of guys that they want in their prestige squad, and they don’t have time to watch tape on how lower end receivers from other teams are doing 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

" I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did he take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. "

 

I would say the bolded says enough with how he did

 

 

DUNKIN' on Royale With Cheese bro

 

How do you feel?

[Shaw66]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL…I see it now.

 

The sentence before the write up was “Bates played exclusively at 2nd team center…”  So I thought he was talking about Bates with the write up.

Funny. Same thing happened to me.  Gunner never had Mrs. Atkinson for English.  You never screwed up your antecedents with Mrs. Atkinson.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Back by absolutely no popular acclaim it's Gunner's pre-season good night bad night thread. A sort of "Sal's arrow up / arrow down" but for the thinking man . The Bills made it 11 wins from their last 12 pre-season outings with victory over the Colts but what did it mean for those position groups and players where questions abound. Here's my take:

 

 

Good Night for...

 

The Running Backs - First things first, this is James Cook's job. All the "he can't be an RB1" naysayers are about to be proven wrong. Not only did he have a touchdown run on a nicely set up and executed (loved Trent Sherfield's block) outside rush but he showed nice burst and toughness running inside on a couple of plays too. I think he has better vision than the guy he is replacing and while I am fine with giving him a few snaps with Josh just to make sure they have mesh points down etc, I don't need to see much more of him this pre-season. Behind Cook Latavius Murray (whose roster spot has felt safe since a jet ski took care of Nyheim Hines' knee) took advantage of Damien Harris's absence to show he still has some burst in those old legs and Jordan Mims (highlighted in my sleepers thread before the draft) took his opportunity too. He might have only averaged 3.3 yards per carry, but he had a couple of nice bursts and a catch and run that showed his natural feel as a receiving back. He isn't a breakaway speed home run hitter but his vision really stands out and he sees the right gap instinctively. I don't think he will make the 53 but if the Bills are able to sneak him through to the PS he is someone more than able to step in if Harris's injury troubles catch up to him again. 

 

O'Cyrus Torrence - I think this competition is over guys. The job is won. O'Cyrus Torrence got the start at right guard after battling Ryan Bates in camp and he took every snap with the first team unit and then stayed in there for a couple of drives with the second team. Bates played exclusively as the second team center. And boy did he take the opportunity. He was a significant part of the Bills' early run game success. He moves people at the point of attack and while tougher tests will lie ahead in pass protection this was a really impressive first outing. Isn't impossible that the Bills revert to Bates at guard week 2, but I think it is trending strongly towards the rookie being the guy. 

 

Boogie Basham - The one place where I think the Bills are guaranteed to cut someone who makes another NFL roster this season is defensive line. They have 5 proven vet tackles (Jones, Oliver, Phillips, Settle, Ford) and 6 proved vet edge players (Von, Groot, AJE, Floyd, Boogie and Shaq). I don't think they can keep 11. Shaq is the "easiest" cut of those but he has played a very specific role for the Bills in the past as an edge setting end and so I was leaning towards Boogie maybe being traded. But he was active yesterday, made a couple of nice run stops and had a sack. He hasn't flashed much in camp so it was a performance he needed. 

 

Ryan Van Demark - The former UConn tackle came into the NFL as an UDFA of the Colts last year, but after being let go in final cuts declined an offer to join the Colts Practice Squad in order to join the Bills. After a year on the practice squad I have seen Astro's camp reports mention him a couple of times as a guy who has had some run with the 2nd team O Line in camp. Yesterday he was the left tackle on the 2nd line for the first drive that line was in. Then Quess replaced him but he came back as the left tackle of the 3rd line, switching to the right side when the luckless Tommy Doyle got hurt. It's fair to say tackle depth behind the starters is a question on this roster, but Van Demark looked good at both spots last night, and if there is a player who I would have told you a week ago had no shot at the 53 that I'm now seeing a path for - he is the guy!

 

The bottom of the roster receivers - Where do we stand receiver wise? Diggs, Davis and Sherfield are locks based on camp reports and pre-season usage. I think based on contract and skillset Harty is a lock too. Shakir is close to a lock but not quite there. He had two nice plays last night and then an awful drop on a potential 3rd down conversion. After that there is a a spot to shoot for. I thought Shorter might have the inside track given draft status and special teams but I am pretty sure he didn't get first run as a gunner last night (I think Ingram was one and I presumed Neal was the other.... but the useless new gamepass international doesn't have the full game replay up yet so I can't double check). He also had zero targets in the pass game though I think was mainly out there with Kyle Allen. The guys who flashed were Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers, KeeSeanJohnson, Marcell Ateman and Dezmon Patmon who finshed as the Bills five leading receivers on the day. All of those except Shavers are former draft picks of other NFL teams so Shavers might be the most intriguing as an untapped potential guy but he did get hands on (and should have caught) the ball what went for a pick 6. Essentially I think that there might still be a battle on for the Bills' 6th receiver spot. 

 

 

Bad Night for...

 

Kyle Allen - Wow he was bad. Allen made a couple of nice throws but generally he just looked so uncomfortable back there. It looked like a guy who doesn't understand the offense, doesn't understand his reads and has no feel for the position. His feet were never settled, he was constantly moving even in pretty good pockets and twice he actually moved himself into pressure when if he stayed where he was and kept his eyes downfield he had oodles of time to make a throw. He played frenzied like a guy for whom it was all happening too quickly. The interception was mainly on him. Sure, Shavers should have caught it, but he threw a 5 yard receiver screen 3 yards off target. How the ***** is that possible? He was horrible. Not helped by the fact that as soon as Barkley stepped in he immediately looked comfortable, was just dropping back, executing reads and getting the ball out of his hands. Okay Allen played against starters and 2nd teamers; Barkley played against 2nd teamers and 3rd teamers but Allen was 8/15 with an INT and Barkley was 14/15 with 2 TDs. At the moment Kyle Allen is the 3rd best Quarterback on the roster.

 

Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. 

 

Ike Boettger - Man that was a tough watch. I have been an Ike guy since the Bills picked him up as an UDFA out of Iowa back in 2018. He was a classic Iowa lineman, tough and well coached technically even if he lacked the physical attributes to stand out. And in 2020 (in particular) he played really well for the Bills as a starter for much of the year. He was then a serviceable backup in 2021 before breaking his ankle late in the year. And while he played a handful of snaps at the end of the blow out in Chicago last year this was his first proper run since and he just does not look the same guy. He could barely move out there, didn't seem to have any confidence pushing off the ankle at all and was beaten on multiple plays. Maybe it was just a bad night, but it does kinda reflect what we have heard from camp. I suspect he is going to be a painful cut for the organisation when the time comes. I am told he is a really popular guy in the locker room. 

 

Jace Sternberger - It was really interesting to note that the Bills ran a TON of 12 personnel with the 1st team offense and the 2nd team offense last night. Again once the full game replay is up I'll try and go back and count but I reckon it was something like 60% of their snaps with the first two units. Kincaid and Knox were out there together and the Quintin Morris and Joel Wilson were the combo for the second unit. That means Sternberger is 5th of 5 on the depth chart and when he got his shot he caught a nice pass, and immediately had it knocked out for a fumble. I was excited about his addition given his USFL success and the fact I liked him coming out of Texas A&M in that same draft as Knox. But he faces a major uphill battle to make the team now and even the PS doesn't seem a guarantee. 

 

The Linebacker Shuffle - As expected Tyrel Dodson got the start at MLB. He did okay in the run game, was in on a couple of tackles, but he didn't inspire much confidence with his zone drops against the pass. He looked a bit like what he is. A backup level player who isn't a liability out there but is noticeably not at the level of much of the supporting cast. He was at least calling the defense when he was out there by the looks of it. He played through with the second unit as well with Dorian Williams who flashed his closing speed and coverage ability in the pass game but also showed with his run fits and taking on of blocks exactly why the Bills have quickly ruled him out of the conversation at MIKE. AJ Klein was the next man through after Dodson and again, looked what he is... an older less athletic guy who is okay moving vertically but struggles moving laterally. At the moment both options in the middle look like compromises. Braylon Spector got some late run with the 3s but was erratic in his play and if he makes this roster he makes it for special teams only. It might have been a good night for Terrel Bernard by virtue of him not playing. 

 

 

Fire away guys.... thoughts, comments, questions always welcome. I will be back with another of these after pre-season game 2!!

 

As usual, very nice breakdown. A couple thing I would love to add from my perspective.

 

Isabella was as unimpressive on returns as he was impressive as a WR. While he speed showed on returns he showed, I thought a lack of instinct on where to go to break a gain. I likened it yesterday to running very fast into brick walls. However, with the ball in his hands as a slot guy he did well breaking into the open. Perhaps just an off day in the return game. Or perhaps he just doesn't read his blocks well on returns....something Evans did well on his lone KR. 

 

Matt Barkley is a national treasure. I will concede that yes, despite his numbers and the way he looked yesterday he is limited as a QB. But does anyone love the life they lead more than this guy? Over the years this guy has become one of my favorite Bills of all time just for his attitude, perseverance and willingness to support the team any way he's asked.

 

Seeing both Micah Hyde and Damar Hamlin playing fast and not shying away from contact coming off their respective injuries from last year was very encouraging. 

 

I know it's preseason game 1 and there really isn't a gameplan per say, however credit to Dorsey for calling a good game. Thought he mixed the run with the pass extremely well. And credit to Josh Allen for reportedly calling the offense on one of the Barkley TDs. 

 

Really liked what I saw off Jordan Mims. He's not fast, but he looked slippery and decisive. 

 

 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

40 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

DUNKIN' on Royale With Cheese bro

 

How do you feel?

I actually removed the post and your reply beat me to it. I saw last second that royal figured it out. Right now? I am eating sweet and sour shrimp. tastes fine! thanks for asking  

[fergie's ire]

I wonder if Shorter is a candidate to mysteriously fall to the ground screaming "My LEG!  MY LEGGGGG!!" in the last preseason game and then be awarded the Marquez Stevenson "spend the year on IR" award.

 

Based on Gunner's description of Basham's success it seems like he could play the Shaq role making Lawson the odd man out.  Of course, it might come down to what players draw an interest from other teams.  They might be able to trade Basham for something but not Shaq.  Just seems that Basham still has potential upside so if he can already come close to giving us what Shaq gives us, it would make sense to stick with the younger player.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

As much as this forum has been growing a hate for Kyle Allen, he has a zip on his ball that Barkley couldn't dream of. Barkley throws ducks. Allen has NFL arm strength.

 

He needs to get his ***** together though

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

As much as this forum has been growing a hate for Kyle Allen, he has a zip on his ball that Barkley couldn't dream of. Barkley throws ducks. Allen has NFL arm strength.

 

He needs to get his ***** together though

 

That is definitely true. He has a much better arm. And I think it is why the Bills want him as the #2. With Barkley's arm you have to re-design so much of the scheme. Take plays out. Turn into a drop, step, go team. But Kyle Allen was a disaster last night. The numbers are bad and I think the numbers flatter him. As @BADOLBILZ said he easily could have had another turnover.

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

If Isabella is able to claim a spot on the 53, do you think either of Shorter or Shakir could be safely stashed on the practice squad? 

 

Will this current Bills team ever keep 7 WR's? Is this a year they could? 

 

Shakir maybe not. Shorter, possibly. But it is risky trying to stash a guy like that. I think he'd make it through, but I don't know he would. So if you retain any hope for him the 3rd pre-season game injury stash - see Hodgins, Stevenson, Vosean Joseph as previous examples - is the way to go.

[Ta111]

13 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

As much as this forum has been growing a hate for Kyle Allen, he has a zip on his ball that Barkley couldn't dream of. Barkley throws ducks. Allen has NFL arm strength.

 

He needs to get his ***** together though

That may be true, but at least he is throwing those ducks to the right spot and open receiver. Many greats didn’t have rocket arms, such as Montana. Much of the game is played between the ears.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL…I see it now.

 

The sentence before the write up was “Bates played exclusively at 2nd team center…”  So I thought he was talking about Bates with the write up.

 

That is very fair. Have changed the "he" to "Cyrus". I wrote most of it late last night. Apologies because that was definitely not clear.

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Gunner - Thanks for the write-up, has to miss the game here.  You don’t mention Evans at RB.  You see him making PS too, or just cut altogether?

 

And you bring up Boogie being traded.  I agree they should be trying to trade one of these edge guys if they can, since they all can’t make the squad.  Have you considered AJE being the trade candidate instead of Basham, given there’s an extra year on Basham’s rookie contract?  If the Bills don’t think they’ll be able to re-sign AJE next season, might as well try and get even a late round pick for him now.

 

Evans I think could be a PS guy depends how many backs they want to keep. He also could be in the returner mix though. I think he has no shot at the roster as a runner. 

 

As for AJE they could do it that way. But the story from camp has been AJE has bee  good and Boogie has struggled and with this regime they have tended to weigh camp in heavier than pre-season games with vanilla schemes etc. Wouldn't be shocked if AJ was traded. But I'd be a tad surprised.

 

[MasterStrategist]

Great write up, thanks @GunnerBill.

 

Some thoughts:

1. Agree on RB.  I was also very high on Mims coming into training camp and after watching him there.  Think this is our most "well rounded group", in a while.  I noticed how quick/confident Cook looked at camp, he just backed that up in P/S week 1. Mims and Evans would be nice practice squad stashes.

 

2. OL: other than the plan Van Demark got beat very badly, at RT, thought he looked much improved.  I'm liking how Edwards and Bates looked with 2nd team, outstanding depth.  Shell looked OK.  Spencer looked great in run game, no surprises that's his strength.  I see 9 OL making the team, Doyle/Quesenberry/Vandemark for that last spot.

 

3.  Kyle Allen: he has more natural ability than Matt, but he needs to get thru progressions quicker and correct spot. IIRC, Keenum looked like a hot mess Week 1 LY too, then stepped it up week 2.  I'm holding out hope we see that with Kyle too, bc Matt is severely limited due to arm strength.

 

4.  CB competition: I liked how all 3 guys looked, even though Elam got the PI flag.  I could see this being a rotation during the season.

 

5.  Siran Neal: looked improved at slot CB, the aggressive looks of the defense plays to his strengths.

 

6. Defensive pressure: already can tell McD is going to move his secondary and LBs around the line alot more/bring pressure and simulated heat. 

 

7. DL: Settle continues to look good, camp to now.  His quickness was limited due to injury LY.  I see us keeping all 5 DTs, and 5 DEs.  If Von is ready week 1, I see us moving on from Shaq and trying to sneak him back to p/s.  But, I think they play it slow with Von and keep him on PUP/protect against injury to start season.

 

8. Secondary: some really solid depth will be scooped up by some team.  I'm hoping we can somehow hold onto Cam and Ingram, for p/s.  Both these guys are likely looking at #s game, potentially last man making the team.  Ingram looked more comfortable in slot, vs LY.  But I'm thinking both get cut and signed elsewhere.

 

9. S/T: Martin looks in prime mode.  I'm curious how they view Isabella, he didn't stand out to me on K/R, Evans looked more decisive.  Harty will be our PR, so not sure if we see Shakir or someone else this upcoming week at KR....that will be telling if they plan on keeping Isabella or Evans.

 

10.  WR 6-7 competition: I need to see Shorter with competent QB play, and think he makes the 53 with Shavers to P/S (which is another slight risk for signing elsewhere).  

 

Overall, great to have Bills football back and to see noticeable improvement with some young players.

 

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is definitely true. He has a much better arm. And I think it is why the Bills want him as the #2. With Barkley's arm you have to re-design so much of the scheme. Take plays out. Turn into a drop, step, go team. But Kyle Allen was a disaster last night. The numbers are bad and I think the numbers flatter him. As @BADOLBILZ said he easily could have had another turnover.

 

 

 

Allen did make some really nice throws

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks, Gunner. 

 

Any observations on McGovern and Rapp?

 

McGovern was what you'd expect. Really steady. I'd say he held his point in the run game more than blew people off in the way Cybo did. But he was plenty good enough for a first outing. There is no question he starts IMO (though Edwards was decent too with the 2nd team).

 

On Rapp - not really. I will confess I was focussed much more on the trenches yesterday.

Edited August 13, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Great write up, thanks @GunnerBill.

 

Some thoughts:

1. Agree on RB.  I was also very high on Mims coming into training camp and after watching him there.  Think this is our most "well rounded group", in a while.  I noticed how quick/confident Cook looked at camp, he just backed that up in P/S week 1. Mims and Evans would be nice practice squad stashes.

 

2. OL: other than the plan Van Demark got beat very badly, at RT, thought he looked much improved.  I'm liking how Edwards and Bates looked with 2nd team, outstanding depth.  Shell looked OK.  Spencer looked great in run game, no surprises that's his strength.  I see 9 OL making the team, Doyle/Quesenberry/Vandemark for that last spot.

 

3.  Kyle Allen: he has more natural ability than Matt, but he needs to get thru progressions quicker and correct spot. IIRC, Keenum looked like a hot mess Week 1 LY too, then stepped it up week 2.  I'm holding out hope we see that with Kyle too, bc Matt is severely limited due to arm strength.

 

4.  CB competition: I liked how all 3 guys looked, even though Elam got the PI flag.  I could see this being a rotation during the season.

 

5.  Siran Neal: looked improved at slot CB, the aggressive looks of the defense plays to his strengths.

 

6. Defensive pressure: already can tell McD is going to move his secondary and LBs around the line alot more/bring pressure and simulated heat. 

 

7. DL: Settle continues to look good, camp to now.  His quickness was limited due to injury LY.  I see us keeping all 5 DTs, and 5 DEs.  If Von is ready week 1, I see us moving on from Shaq and trying to sneak him back to p/s.  But, I think they play it slow with Von and keep him on PUP/protect against injury to start season.

 

8. Secondary: some really solid depth will be scooped up by some team.  I'm hoping we can somehow hold onto Cam and Ingram, for p/s.  Both these guys are likely looking at #s game, potentially last man making the team.  Ingram looked more comfortable in slot, vs LY.  But I'm thinking both get cut and signed elsewhere.

 

9. S/T: Martin looks in prime mode.  I'm curious how they view Isabella, he didn't stand out to me on K/R, Evans looked more decisive.  Harty will be our PR, so not sure if we see Shakir or someone else this upcoming week at KR....that will be telling if they plan on keeping Isabella or Evans.

 

10.  WR 6-7 competition: I need to see Shorter with competent QB play, and think he makes the 53 with Shavers to P/S (which is another slight risk for signing elsewhere).  

 

Overall, great to have Bills football back and to see noticeable improvement with some young players.

 

I mentioned this in the "Impressions" thread but regarding 2., the DE grabbed Vandenmark's facemask and pulled it down to gain leverage around him.  It should have been called.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

 

Allen did make some really nice throws

 

He made two. One of which was a nice throw off a clearly bad read. I know it is Buffalo and I know weather but fundamentals > arm every time. And his fundamentals were atrocious.

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I mentioned this in the "Impressions" thread but regarding 2., the DE grabbed Vandenmark's facemask and pulled it down to gain leverage around him.  It should have been called.

 

Yep. That is what I saw as well. He didn't get beat. He got very clearly fouled. Was an obvious facemask penalty. I am all but certain when the Bills staff review they will just put a line through that play.

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I mentioned this in the "Impressions" thread but regarding 2., the DE grabbed Vandenmark's facemask and pulled it down to gain leverage around him.  It should have been called.

Good observation, didn't catch that live.

 

Have to admit, I was surprised with some of the young OL: both he and Brooker (forgot to mention above) looked solid.  I wasn't counting Van Demark in the 53 discussion, but he is now.  Young/versatile at both tackle spots...type of guy who is signed away if cut. 

 

Steelers have a deep DL, next week's game should tell us alot more about our depth guys.