Is Matt Barkley a better fit than Kyle Allen in this offense?

[Kirby Jackson]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I would still take this deal right now if possible. I think it makes sense for Houston too. They don't want a young player backing up a rookie. Keenum is perfect in that role for them. With Keenum and Stroud in the room everyone in the building understands the hierarchy. Mills muddies the waters for them a bit.

 

I saw enough from Mills last year to think he is good backup material. He wasn't the solution in Houston but he also wasn't the problem. If the goal is to get this roster 2-2 across 4 games I think Mills fits that criteria.

 

Plus we would still have Mills under contract in 2024 so it gives us some consistency at the position.

 

The more I think about it the more I really like the idea.

Great thought!! I didn’t think about the “young threat” being a bad idea. Get it done!! Mills Mafia!!

 

One other layer to add is if he did show out in that 4 week window, you’d have an elite trade chip. It makes so much sense.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Kirby Jackson

[Tipster19]

Seems like this turned to be a real thing.

https://x.com/agetzenberg/status/1690468607891738624?s=46

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bills-have-an-open-competition-at-no-2-quarterback

 

 

[AuntieEm]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:50 PM, Bangarang said:

If Josh can’t play then we’re screwed with either of them. It’s not really something I worry about for that reason.

 

  This is why they have to keep adding to the ol until its a wall protecting Josh and any other qb we put in game, preferably at end of a game that just needs clock run out on a convincing win where they let Josh take a seat to avoid extra hits.  If the ol is good enough then u can make do with less talent in your backup qb as they will benefit from a strong oline as well.

[DCofNC]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:56 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Great thought!! I didn’t think about the “young threat” being a bad idea. Get it done!! Mills Mafia!!

 

One other layer to add is if he did show out in that 4 week window, you’d have an elite trade chip. It makes so much sense.

I would love to have Mills, that’s a guy that should get another shot to start.  The Texans gave him the ole Carr treatment.

[nucci]

Maybe he's just better.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, AuntieEm said:

 

  This is why they have to keep adding to the ol until its a wall protecting Josh and any other qb we put in game, preferably at end of a game that just needs clock run out on a convincing win where they let Josh take a seat to avoid extra hits.  If the ol is good enough then u can make do with less talent in your backup qb as they will benefit from a strong oline as well.

Yeah well that should've been the plan for the last 5+ years.  Yes we slightly upgraded the interior OL, but our tackles are vulnerable.  Dion gave up 3 sacks and 30 pressures last year. And don't get me started on Brown. There's more work needed on the OL if you really want to be serious about protecting your #1 asset.

[DrDawkinstein]

This is like being asked to choose my hottest cousin.

 

Fact of the matter is, if Josh goes down for an extended period of time/the season, then our season is done.

 

Pull a Cincinnati Special. Tank it and get a top 10 pick. Then add that talent and get your QB back in 2024 to make a run.

 

There's really no point to discussing Kyle vs Barkley (but I get it, message board and all).

[John from Riverside]

Matt just knows the offense better he’s been here for years

 

When it comes to physical traits, Kyle Allen is far superior

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

I would love to have Mills, that’s a guy that should get another shot to start.  The Texans gave him the ole Carr treatment.

I’ll throw another random name out there: Jameis. They have Carr and Taysom. I think he could be another option. The Saints think highly of him but maybe one of those DL and/or a late round pick could convince them to part with him? There are some options. 

[DCofNC]

37 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Matt just knows the offense better he’s been here for years

 

When it comes to physical traits, Kyle Allen is far superior

Yeah, but Kyle looks lost, I don’t care how physically gifted he is, he looked awful.  There’s zero upside to him, he’s had his chance to start and couldn’t get it done, he’s a back up, you pick the best one to take over in a case of emergency, and he’s not it.

[DCofNC]

10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ll throw another random name out there: Jameis. They have Carr and Taysom. I think he could be another option. The Saints think highly of him but maybe one of those DL and/or a late round pick could convince them to part with him? There are some options. 

Way too costly, he’s the best back up in the league by a WIDE margin and should be starting somewhere, I’d love to have him, but it’s not going to fit on the money side.  I could absolutely see them trading him to a team that has an injury in the season for a 3rd or higher.  With Hill, they can get away without a “true” back-up. 
 

I think Jameis is either content to stay with them or has a ***** agent or both.  There’s no way he should be in the position he’s in.  He could easily win the job for at least 5 teams if it were a fair competition.  He should have been begging for a trade to Washington, he would give them a WAY better shot to win, unless Howell is something we don’t see yet.  Honestly, the Saints would have been smarter (money wise) to let him take the reins this year, I like Carr, but I don’t think he wins them any more than Winston would.  He would win the job or be equal to or better than the options in Indy, Vegas, Giants, Tampa, Seattle, Green Bay, etc., virtually all of them are paying more for nothing.   There’s no reason for him to be where he is. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Knowing it took 20 years to get solid starting qb play, hoping for starting caliber back up qb play just seems greedy. 
 

A merger of Barkley’s brain and kyles arm would be a good fit. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[SectionC3]

1 minute ago, DCofNC said:

Way too costly, he’s the best back up in the league by a WIDE margin and should be starting somewhere, I’d love to have him, but it’s not going to fit on the money side.  I could absolutely see them trading him to a team that has an injury in the season for a 3rd or higher.  With Hill, they can get away without a “true” back-up. 
 

I think Jameis is either content to stay with them or has a ***** agent or both.  There’s no way he should be in the position he’s in.  He could easily win the job for at least 5 teams if it were a fair competition.  He should have been begging for a trade to Washington, he would give them a WAY better shot to win, unless Howell is something we don’t see yet.  Honestly, the Saints would have been smarter (money wise) to let him take the reins this year, I like Carr, but I don’t think he wins them any more than Winston would.  He would win the job or be equal to or better than the options in Indy, Vegas, Giants, Tampa, Seattle, Green Bay, etc., virtually all of them are paying more for nothing.   There’s no reason for him to be where he is. 

He is the free seafood u guy, and he has that little black mark from his time with Ron Darby, so maybe it’s not exactly his choice to be where he is.  

[Matt_In_NH]

10 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Yeah, but Kyle looks lost, I don’t care how physically gifted he is, he looked awful.  There’s zero upside to him, he’s had his chance to start and couldn’t get it done, he’s a back up, you pick the best one to take over in a case of emergency, and he’s not it.

 

You can also easily overestimate what you see in a preseason game.  Keenum was way worse in his first game last year.   You might be right in the end but you cannot use 15 passes to fully judge anyone, especially in the preseason.  THat could lead you to picking Nathan Peterman.

[Beck Water]

On 8/6/2023 at 7:04 PM, BuffaloBillyG said:

He's on the Packers roster. From what I've seen online he stands a real shot at being QB2 there.

 

Right now aside from the guys that are retired or rumored to be (Matt Ryan) the main guys I can think of that are FAs are Teddy Bridgewater and Carson Wentz. And some here will want those guys because "I've heard of him". But neither are much better an option than Barkley and Allen IMO.

 

Bridgewater would IMO be a better option.  But he signed with Detroit the day after you posted this.

 

Carson Wentz is cooked.  If his SB-year QB coach Reich couldn't restore him to function, no one can.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Matt just knows the offense better he’s been here for years

 

When it comes to physical traits, Kyle Allen is far superior

Bills have a deep ball passing offense so a strong arm is needed.

 

Kyle has a stronger arm that Barkley so is technically a "better fit".

 

But Kyle doesn't know the offense and is struggling.

 

My prediction is Bills carry 2 qbs and put one on the PS.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Bills have a deep ball passing offense so a strong arm is needed.

 

Kyle has a stronger arm that Barkley so is technically a "better fit".

 

But Kyle doesn't know the offense and is struggling.

 

My prediction is Bills carry 2 qbs and put one on the PS.

 

The struggles I see from Allen go way beyond not knowing the offense.  Pocket awareness, judgement, seems like he's only reading half the field at times? locking onto a receiver.

 

The Bills had better NOT have a "deep ball passing offense".  They better have a varied passing offense with a variety of short and intermediate options.

[SectionC3]

8 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Bills have a deep ball passing offense so a strong arm is needed.

 

Kyle has a stronger arm that Barkley so is technically a "better fit".

 

But Kyle doesn't know the offense and is struggling.

 

My prediction is Bills carry 2 qbs and put one on the PS.

They’re gonna cut them both to save a roster spot and maybe bring one back to the 53 or maybe see what else is out there. 

[Simon Says]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:44 PM, Big Turk said:

Kyle is playing himself out of a job that was basically handed to him since they want Barkley to be on the PS and have him there for his presence in the QB room and due to Allen liking him.

But the new rule allows a team to have a 3rd QB. I want to see how the Bills manage that.

On 8/6/2023 at 4:28 PM, Mister Defense said:

Barkley will be the backup quarterback.  He is more accurate, knows this offense well, and has the trust of the coaches.

 

Allen will either be cut, if he does not start playing and  practicing better, or on the practice squad.  Right now it seems the former is going to happen--needs to look competent, and soon.

He's only been on the roster a few months and played one preseason game.

Too early to write him off...and we know BARKLEY won't get any better.

I'm open to browsing the upcoming cuts for a QB

[BuffaloBillyG]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Bridgewater would IMO be a better option.  But he signed with Detroit the day after you posted this.

 

Carson Wentz is cooked.  If his SB-year QB coach Reich couldn't restore him to function, no one can.

Agree, Bridgewater may have been the best of the above. However I didn't like what I saw of him last season, either. Could be he was just a bad fit in the Dolphin offense . 

 

Really feels like the Bills best option at an upgrade at this point if they feel they need one is a trade. 

[Shaw66]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:16 PM, Tipster19 said:

By early reports Kyle Allen is struggling so far. He’s having trouble just getting the snap off which is worrisome. The collection of skilled position players in this offense rely heavily on timing which happens to be a strength of Barkley’s, he anticipates well and just remembering the effectiveness of the Rams’ The Greatest Show on Turf offense it relied on the timing of the pass. That high flying offense’s players were Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Hakim and even little Ricky Proehl that produced a ton of RAC. I believe that we have these very same components currently on the roster with Cook, Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Shakir and/or Harty/Isabella. 
 

When running 12 personnel the TEs would be the beneficiaries of Barkley’s timing/anticipation. If the play begins with unsettledness, which seems to be the issue with K. Allen right now, one could just throw this offensive philosophy right out the window, it just won’t work. I like to think that Barkley does have value when thinking of this offensive scheme and that he’s just not here because he’s Josh’s buddy. Give me a minute to put on my flame ######ant suit before this post gets going. 

I haven't read any responses in this thread, so I apologize if this is repetitive or if it's heading off in a different direction.  

 

I didn't watch the game; just read a lot of the uproar here about how bad Allen was.  I thought as I read it, and I thought the same thing reading the quoted language, that no, Barkley is not the answer, and no, going out and finding another backup is not the answer.   The answer is to continue to work like crazy to get Allen up the learning curve.

 

I Josh gets injured in a way that knocks him out of the game but he'll be back next week, then I want Barkley.   He can walk in off the bench and finish the game.  He'll know the game plan, he'll know the offense, and he'll execute.   He's shown that repeatedly.   But if the Bills need someone to start multiple games while Josh is out, then Allen has to be the option.   Why?  Because the offense is designed to attack downfield with Josh's arm strength and to take advantage of Josh's running threat.   A defensive coordinator who knows Barkley is starting also knows that the Bills' deep passing game is pretty much off the table and the QB running threat is pretty much off the table.  You have to have a QB who has the physical skills to make the plays the offense calls for, and that's Allen.  

 

Allen has shown in the past that he can make good throws, and he's shown some decent mobility.   Physically, he's the right backup.  He may be less talented than Trubisky, but he's like having Trubisky as a backup.  In fact, in another thread, someone pointed out that Trubisky's first action for the Bills as a backup also was pretty disappointing.   I think the Bills just have to be patient with Allen, keep pushing him up the learning curve, so that he can execute the offense the way the Bills want.  

 

Kyle Allen could be Josh's backup for the next five seasons, and that would be a huge plus to the roster.  Not if he plays like he did against the Colts, but if he plays like he has in previous seasons.  He has a career passer rating of 82.   Last season, who had passer ratings around 82?   Names like Minshew, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Trubisky, Wentz.  At least based on last season, those are all failed starters, but guys you wouldn't mind putting on the field if Josh want down for multiple games.  That's who Allen can be.

[dgrochester55]

I would like to say that it is too early to write off Kyle Allen, but as of now, he does not seem to be a fit.   Based on what i have heard about happening in camp and seen in the game, I do not see him adjusting with less than a month.  He was a logical choice in the offseason, but something people don't pan out.

 

Barkley knows the system, has a head for the game and the team would rally behind him.  This makes him a more attractive option to me than Kyle Allen.   Unfortunately, with Barkley's limitations, I could see him having problems if he needed to start for more than a game or two.   Buffalo should try to find a different veteran backup sooner rather than later for that reason.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by dgrochester55

[skibum]

Barkley has two things going for him - He's cool-headed, and he has great timing on his throws (to make up for his lack of a cannon). I don't think K. Allen has anything going for him, except that he is probably the better runner. Barkley's style is nothing like JA's, but Kyle isn't good enough to be on an NFL field. 

 

Basically, the Bills live and die with Josh Allen. But if someone has to come in and hold it together for three games, I'm going with Barkley. 

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't read any responses in this thread, so I apologize if this is repetitive or if it's heading off in a different direction.  

 

I didn't watch the game; just read a lot of the uproar here about how bad Allen was.  I thought as I read it, and I thought the same thing reading the quoted language, that no, Barkley is not the answer, and no, going out and finding another backup is not the answer.   The answer is to continue to work like crazy to get Allen up the learning curve.

 

I Josh gets injured in a way that knocks him out of the game but he'll be back next week, then I want Barkley.   He can walk in off the bench and finish the game.  He'll know the game plan, he'll know the offense, and he'll execute.   He's shown that repeatedly.   But if the Bills need someone to start multiple games while Josh is out, then Allen has to be the option.   Why?  Because the offense is designed to attack downfield with Josh's arm strength and to take advantage of Josh's running threat.   A defensive coordinator who knows Barkley is starting also knows that the Bills' deep passing game is pretty much off the table and the QB running threat is pretty much off the table.  You have to have a QB who has the physical skills to make the plays the offense calls for, and that's Allen.  

 

Allen has shown in the past that he can make good throws, and he's shown some decent mobility.   Physically, he's the right backup.  He may be less talented than Trubisky, but he's like having Trubisky as a backup.  In fact, in another thread, someone pointed out that Trubisky's first action for the Bills as a backup also was pretty disappointing.   I think the Bills just have to be patient with Allen, keep pushing him up the learning curve, so that he can execute the offense the way the Bills want.  

 

Kyle Allen could be Josh's backup for the next five seasons, and that would be a huge plus to the roster.  Not if he plays like he did against the Colts, but if he plays like he has in previous seasons.  He has a career passer rating of 82.   Last season, who had passer ratings around 82?   Names like Minshew, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Trubisky, Wentz.  At least based on last season, those are all failed starters, but guys you wouldn't mind putting on the field if Josh want down for multiple games.  That's who Allen can be.

 

Shaw, I appreciate your points and you're not wrong - in theory.

 

What I saw in the game from Kyle Allen seems to go beyond unfamiliarity with the offense.  I saw lack of pocket awareness - throwing too early from an acceptable pocket, turning and running back into pressure.  I saw locking on a receiver, seeming to only read half the field, throwing to a covered receiver where the DB has a better play on the ball than the receiver does, throwing up a jump ball whilst being pressured instead of dirting it or throwing OOB - lots of stuff.  OK, we all have a first performance and it isn't always great.

 

What bothered me most about Kyle Allen was the dissonance between the above, and his own evaluation of his performance as "smooth" and "overall I was pretty happy with it".  He seemed very upbeat, and while you need a guy to believe in himself you also need him to be self-aware in order to be susceptible to improvement.

[Beast]

I believe the Bills haven’t drafted a QB since they drafted Josh. It’s time to throw a mid round pick at the position. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

We know Kyle Allen is a capable backup QB, and we’ve seen guys struggle to pick up this system. Ultimately I doubt anything changes, no one will be a upgrade over Allen or Barkley at this point. Keenum, Turbisky, and now K. Allen have struggled to pick this system up quickly. 
 

I think the best way to solve the QB2 issue is to stop changing them every single year. Hopefully KA9 picks it up well as the year goes on and gets an extension. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy

[Arkady Renko]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

I believe the Bills haven’t drafted a QB since they drafted Josh. It’s time to throw a mid round pick at the position. 

Jake Fromm says hi. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

10 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

Jake Fromm says hi. 

My goodness, I completely forgot about him. 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

On 8/6/2023 at 1:47 PM, ScottLaw said:

They both suck

Agreed Buffalo Bills fans worrying about the backup quarterbacks like it matters neither are any good. Both current Buffalo Bills backup quarterbacks are Arena Football League QB’s waiting to happen there 16 new Arena Football teams to try out for next year good luck in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Beast]

47 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

Jake Fromm says hi. 

Like I said I believed….obviously I forgot about him. LOL

 

They still need to look to draft one.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Beast

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

47 minutes ago, Arkady Renko said:

Jake Fromm says hi. 

We should bring Jake back.

 

It would be like the prodigal son returning.

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

But the new rule allows a team to have a 3rd QB. I want to see how the Bills manage that.

He's only been on the roster a few months and played one preseason game.

Too early to write him off...and we know BARKLEY won't get any better.

I'm open to browsing the upcoming cuts for a QB

 

The rule only applies to a QB who is carried on the 53 man roster, not a QB who is called up from the PS.

 

I highly doubt many teams will do this. The bottom of the roster spots are too valuable for special teams to have a guy taking one up that will almost never play.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

I never understood the signing and still don't get it.

 

Matt is our man.

[Thrivefourfive]

So pissed I wanted to start a thread. Kyle Allen is sorry. If this turns out to be a reason that holds this team back, it’s all right there in front of us week 1 of pre season. 
 

To the OP, hell no.. Barkley is not an NFL QB. He’s a locker room, QB room guy. He’d get killed if he played any meaning regular season minutes. 
 

Back to Allen,, if HE has to takeover, he’ll eventually make game crushing mistakes. It’s in his DNA. 
 

What pisses me off is that great rosters have won Super Bowls (with a little bit of luck) with backup quarterbacks — Allen is not that guy. I hope time WON’T tell!

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, Beast said:

I believe the Bills haven’t drafted a QB since they drafted Josh. It’s time to throw a mid round pick at the position. 

 

Jake Fromm says "hi" from the 5th round in 2020

 

Started 2 games for the Giants in 2021, lost both.

[Einstein]

50 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

 

Back to Allen,, if HE has to takeover, he’ll eventually make game crushing mistakes. It’s in his DNA. 

 

I know who you mean, but seeing “Allen” in this sentence still upsets me a little.

 

😂

Edited August 15, 2023 by Einstein

[Ayjent]

I’ve never understood the complete contrast they have in the backup QB position. I understand that Josh is unique but Matt Barkley is about as different as it gets, and Kyle Allen isn’t really that close either. I thought Keenum and Trubisky were decent backups but I’ve never liked K. Allen’s play and Barkley is more of a coach and support for Josh than backup QB.  It might be time to ring up Teddy Bridgewater or Nick Foles.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ayjent

[Buckets]

On 8/6/2023 at 2:28 PM, KDIGGZ said:

Both terrible options. Bring back Money Mitch!

If he's available I'm in for that.

[Thrivefourfive]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I know who you mean, but seeing “Allen” in this sentence still upsets me a little.

 

😂

Even more reason.. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Ayjent said:

I’ve never understood the complete contrast they have in the backup QB position. I understand that Josh is unique but Matt Barkley is about as different as it gets, and Kyle Allen isn’t really that close either. I thought Keenum and Trubisky were decent backups but I’ve never liked K. Allen’s play and Barkley is more of a coach and support for Josh than backup QB.  It might be time to ring up Teddy Bridgewater or Nick Foles.

I see what you are trying to say but I don’t think the role of the backup QB is seen that way. 

The reality is if Allen goes down for an extended period of time the season is lost. 

What you want your backup QB to do is to be able to execute a small subset of the offense at a high level and then be able to come in when needed.  Think Henne with the Chiefs coming in for an injured Mahommes in the playoffs.  They get minimal practice reps.

What you are describing is what Baltimore has with Tyler Huntley. Yes he is mobile like Lamar Jackson but he is not capable of running the rest of the offense.

I actually think Foles would be a good idea and an upgrade over the Bills current backups 

Bridgewater signed with Detroit.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ethan in Cleveland