Is Sean McDermott our version of Doug Collins?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

And who do you want to replace him with, an offensive minded coach like Cowhard states.  Matt Rhule and Kliff Kingsbury are both available.  How'd they work out?  I see Sean Payton was mentioned above, Sean Peyton who had a worse overall record than McD and had a top QB.

 

As soon as you change HC you'll also need to change a number of players to fit his style and will be taking a "short step" back and who knows if ever even get back to where they are now.  Much better chance you'll end up in worse situation than we are just based off many more HC failures than successes.

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

This all or nothing concept is incredible to me. The goal is to win, not disputing that. Win a Super Bowl.

 

Winning a Super Bowl is ***** hard. 

 

Agreed. Which is why a HC can’t be the one to squander legitimate opportunities when they present themselves. 13 seconds is on McDermott and is the poison that will eventually kill his tenure here. It will take another year or two to finish the job, but I believe that (and the immediate aftermath) was the point of no return for him here. His failures in the moment and afterward changed how he was viewed and trusted by the locker room. Now it is too late to undo that damage and it just has to play out. 

[Gugny]

He’s our version of Aaron Boone. 

[Rigotz]

McDermott put his nuts on the table this year and said “I’ll call the defense myself.”

 

If you don’t appreciate that and think it deserves one more shot, you don’t know what good looks like.

[First Round Bust]

No - Pegula is a conservative - the only thing liberal about him is his quest for money

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Brandon has ZERO power to decide to go in a different direction. How are people STILL confused about the Bills heirarchy seven years into this regime? 

 

Will Terry? It would take more than 1 more year of playoff losses.

In fairness, we now have more than 1 year of playoff losses. While the QB Terry reportedly was enamored by has bounced the Bills from the playoffs twice, won 2 Super Bowls and 2 MVPs. The same QB McDermott didn't want to take at their draft spot because it "sent the wrong message" reportedly. And while I agree that the way the hierarchy at OBD at minimum places McD and Beane on even ground (if not Sean holding more power) I do believe Terry would consultant Beane for an opinion on the matter should he start thinking about making a move at HC.

 

Look, I like Sean. I don't think many coaches would have gotten 13 wins out of a team that went through as much as the Bills did last year. I have a ton of respect for the job he has done in turning this franchise from a joke to "playoff caliber" to "Championship Caliber". Despite what many claim he's done a great job I'm growing from a very conservative coach his first 2 years to a coach that will take as many or more chances than many. 

 

However at some point I also believe it's fair to question if Sean is a coach that can make a difference and get over that hump or if he's along for the ride. An early playoff exit this year and I think he enters next season firmly on the hot seat. Especially if Pegula has to witness it happen by the hand of the first player he wanted to pick.

 

 

[Gregg]

9 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Agreed. Which is why a HC can’t be the one to squander legitimate opportunities when they present themselves. 13 seconds is on McDermott and is the poison that will eventually kill his tenure here. It will take another year or two to finish the job, but I believe that (and the immediate aftermath) was the point of no return for him here. His failures in the moment and afterward changed how he was viewed and trusted by the locker room. Now it is too late to undo that damage and it just has to play out. 

 

With the new stadium on the way, higher ticket prices and PSL fees I don't think Terry will accept letting the damage play out. Now more than ever Beane and McDermott have to win otherwise say hello to empty seats at the new place. 

[HT02]

No

[Billsatlastin2018]

Another buffoon like response in a critical, go to the AFC Championship, Home Playoff game?

 

Uhhhh… hell YEAH!

 

Why would you keep him? Flatlined his course.
 

‘13 Seconds’ is the tell on his tombstone!

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Who is our Phil Jackson then???

 

Hopefully he’s not coaching the Giants.

[mjt328]

In my opinion, Sean McDermott deserves one more season to get the Bills over the hump.

 

Back in the 2020 AFC Championship, the Bills were still totally outmatched in talent by the Chiefs.  Going into the season, I was hoping for the AFC East title and at least one playoff win.  They accomplished that, so I felt like it was a successful season.

 

The last two postseasons are strikes one and two.  The 2021 AFC Divisional loss (13 seconds) was a horrific breakdown of coaching strategy, and really made me question McDermott's ability to direct his team in a high pressure situation.  Last year's mess against the Bengals, in particular the defensive gameplan, told me that he learned nothing from his previous two playoff exits.

 

There are some other great coaches who took some time to finally break-through.  Andy Reid obviously comes to mind.  Bill Cowher was another.  But with our franchise QB in the prime of his career, we don't have the luxury of waiting a decade for him to get it right.  I'm willing to sit-back and see what happens this season.  But McDermott should be on the hot-seat if we aren't lifting the trophy in February.

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Patient organization in Pittsburgh.  Pegula I believe grew up a Steelers fan growing up so it's just one of the reasons I believe McDermott really has to screw up royally for him to ever be fired.

Well, Sean has done that once already, 13 seconds cough cough, so it appears Sean has maybe nine lives. 
 

I truly appreciate McDermott, he with Beane saved this team from continuing to be the laughing stock they were, those two turned the Bills into a competitive Football team in short order, they are light years a head of those times, which weren’t that long ago. As much as I have whined about the teams short falls, I’m not ready by a long shot to give up on Beane & McDermott. Better the devil you know, as the saying goes. 

[Billsflyer12]

I’m beginning to see a trend now for people defending McDermott to just say, “well who are you going to replace him with?”

 

So as long as one can’t definitively provide a name that will guaranteed be better then McD he can just have his job forever?

 

Not sure why NFL coaches have such a different standard than NFL players and coaches in other major sports leagues around the world.  

 

 

 

[Einstein]

46 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

McD deserves to be on the hot seat IMO.

 

I still believe his seat is warmer than most realize.

 

DC gone. ST gone. WR coach gone. 
 

He is running out of coaches to blame and fire.

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

Patient organization in Pittsburgh.  Pegula I believe grew up a Steelers fan growing up so it's just one of the reasons I believe McDermott really has to screw up royally for him to ever be fired.

 

Terry wasn't so patient with the Sabres when they were a clown show all of those years. The Bills of the last 6 years have been much better than the Sabres of the past decade, but Terry has shown he will make major changes if he feels it's necessary. New stadium on the way the Bills better field a winning product considering what the cost will be for fans to attend their games.

[MJS]

6 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

He’s more Phil Jackson with that Triangle philosophy and zen wrestling mantra. 

You messed up the pattern!

[Royale with Cheese]

I hope not.

[AuntieEm]

50 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

T0ny Dungy had t0 be fired f0r Tampa t0 get 0ver the hump.

 

C0uld be the same here.

 

als0 H0w in the hell is Dungy in the Hall 0f Fame?

 

   Wasn't Dungy the first black HC to win the Super Bowl?  Being first always gives you an edge to get voted in at least for coaches. 

Just like Marv Levy coach of only team to go to 4 SB in a row, got in hall of fame even when there are Bills fans that don't think he was a good enough coach because his team never won one. 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

34 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

With the new stadium on the way, higher ticket prices and PSL fees I don't think Terry will accept letting the damage play out. Now more than ever Beane and McDermott have to win otherwise say hello to empty seats at the new place. 

 

I’m sure the Pegulas want to win a SB, but they’re also businesspeople. They embraced the opportunity to make a SB run as well as use the associated fan fervor to get themselves a new stadium. It will be interesting to see how hard they go after a SB now that the stadium is in hand. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

 

I’m sure the Pegulas want to win a SB, but they’re also businesspeople. They embraced the opportunity to make a SB run as well as use the associated fan fervor to get themselves a new stadium. It will be interesting to see how hard they go after a SB now that the stadium is in hand. 

 

Just look at the Jets and Giants as examples. At Giants Stadium both teams sold out the stadium with season tickets holders and had a waiting list as well. At MetLife both teams now advertise to buy season and individual tickets. PSL were a disaster in the NYC market. It also didn't help that both teams sucked for the past decade. If the Bills in a much smaller market without the corporate support that the NYC area can offer, they better put a winning product out there or they will be playing in front of sparse crowds like the Jets and Giants did. 

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Agreed. Which is why a HC can’t be the one to squander legitimate opportunities when they present themselves. 13 seconds is on McDermott and is the poison that will eventually kill his tenure here. It will take another year or two to finish the job, but I believe that (and the immediate aftermath) was the point of no return for him here. His failures in the moment and afterward changed how he was viewed and trusted by the locker room. Now it is too late to undo that damage and it just has to play out. 

And then Damar happened and your made up point was proven wrong. 

 

I also want the Mafia to know something about Sean McDermott. It’s not that he didn’t have my respect before, because he did. But the way he carried himself through this D-Ham ordeal? He has my respect forever.

Edited June 15, 2023 by JGMcD2

[boyst]

mcdermott is a chump and should have been fired last year with daboll being put to HC with understudy Dorsey. frazier kicked to the curb and someone else with original ideas brought in, especially knowing we were losing our "star" LB who made our defense work, supposedly.

[machine gun kelly]

No!

 

Stop with the trolling.  This reminds me something Line stayed the other day, it’s not the Bickering Bills, it’s the Bickering Bills Fans!

[What a Tuel]

46 minutes ago, Billsflyer12 said:

I’m beginning to see a trend now for people defending McDermott to just say, “well who are you going to replace him with?”

 

So as long as one can’t definitively provide a name that will guaranteed be better then McD he can just have his job forever?

 

Not sure why NFL coaches have such a different standard than NFL players and coaches in other major sports leagues around the world.  

 

 

 

 

It's a pretty relavent question. A lot of people are presenting the argument that McDermott is preventing us from winning and that subtracting him makes us better. If we just stick any competent person in there then 13 secs doesn't happen. It's nonsense. 

 

You win by consistently making the playoffs and competing which we are doing. Pretty sure only 2 HC in the last 2 decades have won multiple super bowls. You don't throw consistent playoff football in the toilet unless you have a surefire plan. Talk about wasting the super bowl window with a rebuild. 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by What a Tuel

[BillsShredder83]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Brandon has ZERO power to decide to go in a different direction. How are people STILL confused about the Bills heirarchy seven years into this regime? 

 

Will Terry? It would take more than 1 more year of playoff losses.

ive seen this enough around here from good posters to take it as fact, but outta curiosity, how do we know this?

[BarleyNY]

18 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Just look at the Jets and Giants as examples. At Giants Stadium both teams sold out the stadium with season tickets holders and had a waiting list as well. At MetLife both teams now advertise to buy season and individual tickets. PSL were a disaster in the NYC market. It also didn't help that both teams sucked for the past decade. If the Bills in a much smaller market without the corporate support that the NYC area can offer, they better put a winning product out there or they will be playing in front of sparse crowds like the Jets and Giants did. 

 

Yup. Fans buying PSLs need to consider what will happen during down years - especially if they are prolonged. That would naturally lead to a poor secondary PSL market. STHs wishing to stop buying their season tickets would have to sell their PSLs at a deep discount or even give them back to the team for nothing. The worst case is more likely for the worst seats, which are usually owned by fans the least able to afford them in the first place. If the PSLs revert to the team then they can be resold in better times. In the meantime the team could sell them as single game seats. People obviously can spend their money as they see fit, but to me this seems a bit underhanded. It is a sneaky way for teams cash in even when they don’t put a good product on the field for awhile. 

13 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

And then Damar happened and your made up point was proven wrong. 

 

I also want the Mafia to know something about Sean McDermott. It’s not that he didn’t have my respect before, because he did. But the way he carried himself through this D-Ham ordeal? He has my respect forever.

 

People can respect the humanity of someone and not respect their ability to do their job. To equivocate the two aspects of a person is ridiculous. I’ve known some really good people that are terrible at their jobs. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by BarleyNY

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Look, it doesn't take a guru or an expert to see that this year is a make or break year for McDermott... he now has full control over the defense and has all the weapons he needs on both sides of the ball to win a championship. Remember that head coaches like Don Shula, Tony Dungy and Andy Reid were all fired for lack of performance and their former teams all won the Super Bowl. Coaches like Marty Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis both won a ridiculous amount of games but failed to deliver with the talent that they had. 

 

This year must be at least a Super Bowl appearance kind of a year, and if you don't believe that this is a make or break year for him then your standards aren't acceptable. I have been through decades of many losing miserable seasons and ohh boy I remember the pain but in this case I feel McD may be wasting our window and I hope he proves me wrong.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

No. He's Marty Schottenheimer all the way

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Agreed. Which is why a HC can’t be the one to squander legitimate opportunities when they present themselves. 13 seconds is on McDermott and is the poison that will eventually kill his tenure here. It will take another year or two to finish the job, but I believe that (and the immediate aftermath) was the point of no return for him here. His failures in the moment and afterward changed how he was viewed and trusted by the locker room. Now it is too late to undo that damage and it just has to play out. 

  I hope this year he comes out and proves us wrong but this take is just about how I feel.

    Add in the absolute, inexcusable ass whooping by the Bengals on our home turf. 🤮🤮🤮 We looked like a 4/12 team looking to the off-season. Except for Diggs , he was pissed off and disgusted……. I mean , “ Not a team player”

[Manther]

3 hours ago, eball said:

This analogy could be spot on…or it could be out in left field.

 

Agreed, but, lean to spot on.  I like McD, but, everyone has a ceiling and everyone has a correct seat on the bus.  I am open to McD's ceiling and spot on the bus.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, boyst said:

mcdermott is a chump and should have been fired last year with daboll being put to HC with understudy Dorsey. frazier kicked to the curb and someone else with original ideas brought in, especially knowing we were losing our "star" LB who made our defense work, supposedly.

 

Mike Mularkey is a chump. Dick Jauron is a chump. Sean McDermott's record says ANYTHING but chump... ridiculous

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

McDermott put his nuts on the table this year and said “I’ll call the defense myself.”

 

If you don’t appreciate that and think it deserves one more shot, you don’t know what good looks like.

I like it but it reeks of equal doses of Desperation and Whatvtook you so long.

[What a Tuel]

6 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Look, it doesn't take a guru or an expert to see that this year is a make or break year for McDermott... he now has full control over the defense and has all the weapons he needs on both sides of the ball to win a championship. Remember that head coaches like Don Shula, Tony Dungy and Andy Reid were all fired for lack of performance and their former teams all won the Super Bowl. Coaches like Marty Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis both won a ridiculous amount of games but failed to deliver with the talent that they had. 

 

This year must be at least a Super Bowl appearance kind of a year, and if you don't believe that this is a make or break year for him then your standards aren't acceptable. I have been through decades of many losing miserable seasons and ohh boy I remember the pain but in this case I feel McD may be wasting our window and I hope he proves me wrong.

 

Who are you going to hire? You can easily wind up with a plethora of bad coaches who ended up dismantling the team. For what? McDermott isn't the playoff problem. 

 

Texans we had young Josh Allen playing hero ball. 

Chiefs we didn't have the roster

Chiefs we had the roster but we botched 13 seconds

Bengals the team was just out of it. You could just tell they were mentally fatigued. 

 

The question is absolutely 100% who are you going to hire? 

 

[Manther]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And it was Tomlin's 2nd year period. Cowher is a guy who took years of near misses to get one.

For sure and great call.  Neither Coaches were ever dominate.  Just hung around near the top.  It is a good and a bad thing.

 

The Steelers comparison is a good one.  A very, very good franchise from the top down, like the Bills currently.  It leads to consistent success.  But, the Coach can look like the reason for consistent success or are they a product of a very well run Franchise.  It is tough to tell.  Great comparison and great conversation without an answer and you can't find a definitive answer as there are too many variables. 

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Andy Reid obviously comes to mind.  Bill Cowher was another.  But with our

Mike Holmgren 

[boyst]

3 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Mike Mularkey is a chump. Dick Jauron is a chump. Sean McDermott's record says ANYTHING but chump... ridiculous

*Slow clap* if success is measured by getting almost there history would be written so much better.

 

The Bills were the best team 90-95. The Pistons were as good as the Bulls in the 80's. The Mets are on par with the Yanks. Germany didn't lose WWII (after bombing pearl harbor).

 

Almost there isn't successful in the sports world. Maybe taking the second prettiest girl to the prom is ok in life, maybe having a fully loaded Kia is as good as an entry level Mercedes to some, having 5" is as good as having 7" to others (of insulation in your attic);  having everything come up short of the best is ok in many facets of life except where it isn't.

 

Sports is where it isn't. 

[Manther]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

In my opinion, Sean McDermott deserves one more season to get the Bills over the hump.

 

Back in the 2020 AFC Championship, the Bills were still totally outmatched in talent by the Chiefs.  Going into the season, I was hoping for the AFC East title and at least one playoff win.  They accomplished that, so I felt like it was a successful season.

 

The last two postseasons are strikes one and two.  The 2021 AFC Divisional loss (13 seconds) was a horrific breakdown of coaching strategy, and really made me question McDermott's ability to direct his team in a high pressure situation.  Last year's mess against the Bengals, in particular the defensive gameplan, told me that he learned nothing from his previous two playoff exits.

 

There are some other great coaches who took some time to finally break-through.  Andy Reid obviously comes to mind.  Bill Cowher was another.  But with our franchise QB in the prime of his career, we don't have the luxury of waiting a decade for him to get it right.  I'm willing to sit-back and see what happens this season.  But McDermott should be on the hot-seat if we aren't lifting the trophy in February.

 

Very well said!  Agreed!

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

*Slow clap* if success is measured by getting almost there history would be written so much better.

 

The Bills were the best team 90-95. The Pistons were as good as the Bulls in the 80's. The Mets are on par with the Yanks. Germany didn't lose WWII (after bombing pearl harbor).

 

Almost there isn't successful in the sports world. Maybe taking the second prettiest girl to the prom is ok in life, maybe having a fully loaded Kia is as good as an entry level Mercedes to some, having 5" is as good as having 7" to others (of insulation in your attic);  having everything come up short of the best is ok in many facets of life except where it isn't.

 

Sports is where it isn't. 

 

Your problem is you don't see that your demand for a championship by dismantling the very organization that is currently competing for one can be detrimental to your stated goal. 

[Manther]

23 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Look, it doesn't take a guru or an expert to see that this year is a make or break year for McDermott... he now has full control over the defense and has all the weapons he needs on both sides of the ball to win a championship. Remember that head coaches like Don Shula, Tony Dungy and Andy Reid were all fired for lack of performance and their former teams all won the Super Bowl. Coaches like Marty Schottenheimer and Marvin Lewis both won a ridiculous amount of games but failed to deliver with the talent that they had. 

 

This year must be at least a Super Bowl appearance kind of a year, and if you don't believe that this is a make or break year for him then your standards aren't acceptable. I have been through decades of many losing miserable seasons and ohh boy I remember the pain but in this case I feel McD may be wasting our window and I hope he proves me wrong.

Totally agree!

 

Go Bills, let's jump through our window!

[boyst]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Your problem is you don't see that your demand for a championship by dismantling the very organization that is currently competing for one can be detrimental to your stated goal. 

Every good leader and management situation has a system built to sustain success and improvements with turnover.

 

Remember all the FO people we lost and Beane kept winning?  People said losing Dan Campbell and Joe schoen was a huge loss, it wasn't. People said losing 3-4 of these key guys would ruin us.

 

It didn't

 

We lost good coaches - Daboll and the scapegoat ST coordinator last year - that hurt. We lost Chad Hall this year and moved on from Frazier. We added some dudes but the head of the snake is still the same. McDermott should have been toast last year and it would have been insane but I wanted him gone with Daboll moved up.