Diggs NOT at mandatory minicamp, McDermott "very concerned" DAY 2 UPDATE: He's back

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Looks like McDermott should’ve kept his mouth shut.

Maybe, but his agent is playing games here.  Very obvious.  McDermotts comment certainly did not precipitate Diggs actions.  The agent is now using it to make his client look better. 

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

It's true daboll had a slow start to his career and was fired several times as OC. But this can prove a broader point in that it can take several years for an OC to become good. Dorsey in his unimaginative play calling is living proof of that.

 

Daboll was key in Josh's development. I think we can all agree on that.

 

Then he gets the HC gig at NY and turns a perennial losing team into a winner and leads them to the playoffs. An incredible accomplishment. 

 

Not only that, he get HC of the year and resurrects Daniel Jones career who before Daboll was widely thought to be a bust. Taking the Giants to the playoffs was a monumental task.

 

In your biased tirade against Daboll you conveniently left out these facts.

 

It's OK you don't like daboll and we get it. But the rest of the NFL recognizes his achievements hence the coach of the year award

 

I can't help it here, but if you want to talk about leaving out some facts, here's a few.  I'll address them by point.  

 

Quote

It's true daboll had a slow start to his career and was fired several times as OC. But this can prove a broader point in that it can take several years for an OC to become good. Dorsey in his unimaginative play calling is living proof of that.

 

Daboll didn't "have a slow start" to his career as an OC.  He flat out sucked at it until Allen's third season.  Coincidence?  

 

Here are his Scoring/Yardage rankings during his tenures:  

 

2009:  29th/32nd 

2010:  31st/29th 

2011:  20th/22nd  (his pinnacle)  

2012:  32nd/24th 

 

He was demoted after that and had to coach TEs in NE.  Hardly propping up his resume.  

 

2018:  30th/30th  (with us)  

2019:  23rd/24th  

 

That's an average of 27th and 26th, which is absolutely horrible.  

 

It wasn't until Allen's third season and the addition of Diggs that "he" excelled.  

 

Quote

Daboll was key in Josh's development. I think we can all agree on that.

 

I don't agree on that, many don't.  Sure, he obviously had an influence, but Allen's pretty brilliant in a true intellectual sense.  IMO Allen's development is because of Allen primarily.  I'd say the opposite, that Allen was key in Daboll's "development."  

 

Quote

Then he gets the HC gig at NY and turns a perennial losing team into a winner and leads them to the playoffs. An incredible accomplishment. 

 

Accomplishment, yes, incredible?  Debatable for sure.  It's also not only possible but quite likely that the guy he replaced, Joe Judge, was completely in over his head and had therefore underachieved in that same role, whereas Daboll merely brought it up to the standard that the team is.  We'll find out more this season.  But 9-7-1 is hardly "incredible."  His Giants beat Minnesota twice, and the only other winning teams they beat were Jax and Baltimore, Jax early in the season before Lawrence started playing better, and the schizophrenic Ravens that are OK but also overrated.  

 

Otherwise, Jones posted 15 Passing TDs to Allen's 37 and 36 in Daboll's only two notable seasons here.  

 

Quote

Not only that, he get HC of the year and resurrects Daniel Jones career who before Daboll was widely thought to be a bust. Taking the Giants to the playoffs was a monumental task.

 

 

Monumental task?  9-7-1 playoffs, with help from other teams in week 18 and backing in after finishing 2-5-1?  Come on now .... 

 

They obviously had Minnesota's number and beat them again in the playoffs before getting obliterted by Philly.  But the main point that I'd argue in that statement is that he  "resurrected Daniel Jones' career," who you say before Daboll was widely considered to be a bust, and with which many would agree including myself.  

 

But Jones' passing numbers last season were not significantly better than in his prior two seasons and didn't approach his rookie season numbers.  

 

He pitched for 15 TDs last season, up from 11 and 10 the two seasons prior.  His TD% went up marginally from 2.5 an 2.8 to 3.2.  But here were his rankings on the season for QBs: 

 

Passing Yards:  15th 

Passing TDs:  21st 

TD %:  28th 

YPA:  25th 

Adj. YPA:  19th 

YPC:  27th 

YPG:  25th 

Rating: 14th 

Sack %:  26th (despite all that rushing)  

 

Where he did improve was running the ball where his rushing yards more than doubled from the year prior.  And we wonder where Allen got it from.  Also in INT% which was way down to 1st in the league.  

 

I'm not sure I'd consider that a "resurrection" or resurgence otherwise.  If he stays on that "resurrected" pace of 15 passing TDs I don't envision him lasting mch longer as a starter in the NFL except on desperate teams that think they can get more out of him.  I think that it may have been a huge mistake to extend him like that.  This season will tell more, but could very well have simply been lack of familiarity by opponents of what Daboll was doing, which would explain the 7-2 start followed by the 2-5-1 near epic collapse.  

 

 

[Big Blitz]

40 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

How many playoff games have the Vikings won? They are in rebuild mode.  They have nothing to laugh about.  

 

We were 7-6 at one point last year. 
 

Played a few scrub QBs in weather then Allen went scorched earth come playoff time - which for almost 3 Dabol quarters at KC was a slog until Allen hit Davis on a 75 yard TD late in the 3rd. 
 

I don’t want to downplay Dabol, but in no way am I feeling like we let Sean McVay go.

 

 

Dorsey was always going to be an issue last year as a rookie play caller that I wonder if it’s a problem Diggs always had from the start.  Which of course he should be dealing with in house.   

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, bills6969 said:

Trade him to Cowboys for Lamb

We actually don’t have cap space to trade him.

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, bills6969 said:

Trade him to Cowboys for Lamb

The thought did come to my mind about him being told that Beane is looking to trade him. 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

They need to figure this out. People are acting like Diggs is disposable, while this team becomes very average without him.  

 

Josh appears to agree with you.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

If this is all true and it's for some diva reason, I hope they just let him ride the bench the next 2 years or take the next 2 years off. Let him waste 2 of his prime  and be out of football

[major]

29 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Just another "explanation" of why the Bills won't make a SB appearence.

 

Beane and McD had no idea their WR#1 would let them down. 

 

We all can enjoy the up coming season and realize the SB hopes are basically gone. 

 

There's always next year with McD and Beane. It wasn't their fault at all. Fair enough explanation for us fans. 

 

Agree or disagree? 

Seems to be McD’s fault. Frazier takes a *sabbatical, Diggs is somewhere in the facility but not on the field, and Daboll left (with some suggesting they weren’t getting along). Only one of those is left to ask questions of: MCd. He should have never said he was concerned. Keep that internal 

[Fan in Chicago]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We actually don’t have cap space to trade him.

There is that of course. 

[Starr Almighty]

3 minutes ago, bills6969 said:

Trade him to Cowboys for Lamb

1st season as a fan huh

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Payton won once with a Hall Of Fame QB then nothing. Reich?

 

Geez. He’s not a 1 and done playoff coach. He wins playoff games. There literally no argument to fire him. 

His record is 4-5 in the playoffs. The last few years he's been borderline awful. I've seen enough to move on from him. 

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The thought did come to my mind about him being told that Beane is looking to trade him. 

It's financially impossible to trade him.

[PBF81]

42 minutes ago, drummernut74 said:

Because McD is married in high fidelity to his process and will cut off his own nose to spite his face

 

Indeed 

 

The interesting thing is that this mythical "Process" has neither been defined nor is evident.  It seems to a simple barrier that suggests that exposing this secretive "Process" would expose everything that's behind the success of the team, thereby forever barring anyone from ever knowing what it is besides McD and possibly Beane, who probably both have a few drinks now and again and laugh themselves to the nines over its effectiveness with the media and fans.  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

There is that of course. 

Next year though we save a lot trading him in June.

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, major said:

Seems to be McD’s fault. Frazier takes a *sabbatical, Diggs is somewhere in the facility but not on the field, and Daboll left (with some suggesting they weren’t getting along). Only one of those is left to ask questions of: MCd. He should have never said he was concerned. Keep that internal 

He should have said " I f'd up in 13 seconds too. 

 

[PBF81]

44 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Maybe Diggs has tried and McBeane and crew have blown him off. Told him we can deal with this stuff later, get some rest and enjoy some time away. We all need a recharge and some time away. Another indication to Stef that this team is soft and not all in. 

 

Maybe, but then McD needs to be held to account for it.  That would be ridiculous if that's the case.  It'd have been reasonable in February and March, but once the voluntaries started and there wasn't even a peep from Diggs, it would be irresponsible not to have taken it up at that point, which was many weeks ago.  

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

His record is 4-5 in the playoffs. The last few years he's been borderline awful. I've seen enough to move on from him. 

Ugh. Payton is 9-8 and he won a Super Bowl his 1st year with Brees. He has a losing record in the playoffs since 2009. 
 

There are few coaches better than McDermott. It’s tough to admit. This isn’t hockey.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

No one knew that he showed up and left until diggs' agent said he was there.

 

So how is omitting the truth not the same as lying?

 

Again the point isn't merely showing up, it's practicing with the team. 

[Fan in Chicago]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Josh appears to agree with you.

Clearly Diggs is the second main reason this offense ticks. But not if Diggs heart , soul and attention is not in the game . 

I was wishing that the stories of Diggs' behavior were not true. But the smoke is getting thicker. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Realist]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

His record is 4-5 in the playoffs. The last few years he's been borderline awful. I've seen enough to move on from him. 

So you want to start over with an entire new coaching staff during Josh's prime? Doesn't really sound like a smart thing to do.

[That's No Moon]

3 minutes ago, major said:

Seems to be McD’s fault. Frazier takes a *sabbatical, Diggs is somewhere in the facility but not on the field, and Daboll left (with some suggesting they weren’t getting along). Only one of those is left to ask questions of: MCd. He should have never said he was concerned. Keep that internal 

Process...

[UKBillFan]

That is the odd thing. Rule 101 - don't make internal issues public. Yet that's what McDermott did. Beane has always been more comfortable in front of the press and this another example. McDermott should have just said we're in communication with Diggs and understand why he isn't here today, then no commented the rest. At least it then wouldn't have blown up publicly with his agent, and Josh could have followed the same line.

 

[Tulsabillsfanz]

3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

It's financially impossible to trade him.

I really like Beane, but under today’s circumstances, this wasn’t a wise restructure. 

[MikePJ76]

It is truly fascinating that the head c0ach has all0wed this t0 get t0 this level....he was in philly in 05.   

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The thought did come to my mind about him being told that Beane is looking to trade him. 

 

Not a chance in hell. 

The only way the Bills could possibly maybe have traded Diggs was prior to the March 21 2023 deadline to execute his fully-guaranteed $16M option bonus (it either became salary, or amortized.  And certainly prior to converting $6.74M of Diggs 2023 fully-guaranteed salary into 5 years of bonus.

 

Prior to that, he still carried (by my calculation) a daunting $21.5M in dead cap if traded.

 

At this point, he carries $44.24M of dead cap, excluding this season's salary of $1.165M.

[Bills Bud]

Diggs is a pos and why is Allen now taking blame when he does everything right? I’m done with Diggs 

[Another Fan]

I'm thinking even if Diggs does really want out, he's doing nothing to help himself here.

 

 

This would be the 2nd team he's pulled this with...  I would think teams wouldn't go near him.  But then again what do I know 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, Realist said:

So you want to start over with an entire new coaching staff during Josh's prime? Doesn't really sound like a smart thing to do.

It just doesn’t make any sense. Then the new coach is held to the Super Bowl or bust standard.

 

Obviously Super Bowl is the goal but I’m good sticking with the coach that’s only 1-2 games away. It’ll happen soon.

[FLFan]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I can't help it here, but if you want to talk about leaving out some facts, here's a few.  I'll address them by point.  

 

 

Daboll didn't "have a slow start" to his career as an OC.  He flat out sucked at it until Allen's third season.  Coincidence?  

 

Here are his Scoring/Yardage rankings during his tenures:  

 

2009:  29th/32nd 

2010:  31st/29th 

2011:  20th/22nd  (his pinnacle)  

2012:  32nd/24th 

 

He was demoted after that and had to coach TEs in NE.  Hardly propping up his resume.  

 

2018:  30th/30th  (with us)  

2019:  23rd/24th  

 

That's an average of 27th and 26th, which is absolutely horrible.  

 

It wasn't until Allen's third season and the addition of Diggs that "he" excelled.  

 

 

I don't agree on that, many don't.  Sure, he obviously had an influence, but Allen's pretty brilliant in a true intellectual sense.  IMO Allen's development is because of Allen primarily.  I'd say the opposite, that Allen was key in Daboll's "development."  

 

 

Accomplishment, yes, incredible?  Debatable for sure.  It's also not only possible but quite likely that the guy he replaced, Joe Judge, was completely in over his head and had therefore underachieved in that same role, whereas Daboll merely brought it up to the standard that the team is.  We'll find out more this season.  But 9-7-1 is hardly "incredible."  His Giants beat Minnesota twice, and the only other winning teams they beat were Jax and Baltimore, Jax early in the season before Lawrence started playing better, and the schizophrenic Ravens that are OK but also overrated.  

 

Otherwise, Jones posted 15 Passing TDs to Allen's 37 and 36 in Daboll's only two notable seasons here.  

 

 

Monumental task?  9-7-1 playoffs, with help from other teams in week 18 and backing in after finishing 2-5-1?  Come on now .... 

 

They obviously had Minnesota's number and beat them again in the playoffs before getting obliterted by Philly.  But the main point that I'd argue in that statement is that he  "resurrected Daniel Jones' career," who you say before Daboll was widely considered to be a bust, and with which many would agree including myself.  

 

But Jones' passing numbers last season were not significantly better than in his prior two seasons and didn't approach his rookie season numbers.  

 

He pitched for 15 TDs last season, up from 11 and 10 the two seasons prior.  His TD% went up marginally from 2.5 an 2.8 to 3.2.  But here were his rankings on the season for QBs: 

 

Passing Yards:  15th 

Passing TDs:  21st 

TD %:  28th 

YPA:  25th 

Adj. YPA:  19th 

YPC:  27th 

YPG:  25th 

Rating: 14th 

Sack %:  26th (despite all that rushing)  

 

Where he did improve was running the ball where his rushing yards more than doubled from the year prior.  And we wonder where Allen got it from.  Also in INT% which was way down to 1st in the league.  

 

I'm not sure I'd consider that a "resurrection" or resurgence otherwise.  If he stays on that "resurrected" pace of 15 passing TDs I don't envision him lasting mch longer as a starter in the NFL except on desperate teams that think they can get more out of him.  I think that it may have been a huge mistake to extend him like that.  This season will tell more, but could very well have simply been lack of familiarity by opponents of what Daboll was doing, which would explain the 7-2 start followed by the 2-5-1 near epic collapse.  

 

 

Excellent post.  Daboll is getting lots of credit, and some of it is deserved, but largely it is just that he is being compared to such incompetent coaching that proceeded him, for many, many years. We will see his he does this year, but I think Jones will show himself to be the mediocre QB that he is.  They are a distant third in that division at best.  One other point:  you would be hard pressed to find a single coaching technique or approach that Daboll used last year that did not come from his time with McDermott. 

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, Bills Bud said:

Diggs is a pos and why is Allen now taking blame when he does everything right? I’m done with Diggs 

why is Diggs a POS and how has Allen done "everything right" when Diggs hasn't?

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

No it's not. The Billsiest thing would be for us to fire a coach that gets us to the playoffs yearly and averages 12 wins/season.

Some sports franchises fire coaches that make playoff appearances, if they then bow out of them prematurely.

 

I think most fans here are content with what's going on now, though.

 

We have the appearance of a competitive team, we are in the discussion, we make the playoffs....we go out of the playoffs....and that's good enough.

 

 

[Bills Bud]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

why is Diggs a POS and how has Allen done "everything right" when Diggs hasn't?

 Allen shows up to work

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ugh. Payton is 9-8 and he won a Super Bowl his 1st year with Brees. He has a losing record in the playoffs since 2009. 
 

There are few coaches better than McDermott. It’s tough to admit. This isn’t hockey.

He won the SB and he was possibly robbed of one by the officials. He is obviously an aggressive offensive coach. Imho, he's an upgrade to McD. I just didn't like paying the cost to get him. 

 

Yes, the Bills can do much worse than McD. Yes McD doesn't suck. Yes McD hasn't done much in the playoffs with a franchise QB. 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Not necessarily.  McD could very well have told Diggs to leave before practice.  Maybe not so nicely if there was any conflict going on between him and Diggs or Dorsey or whoever.

 

Either way, McD does the "coach speak" all the time which is basically omitting all the details which is basically lying anyways.

There is no need to EVER listen to a McDermott public speaking engagement.  They are COMPLETE wastes of time.

 

It's rather cynical of him, and one of many reasons why I don't particularly like him on an individual level.

 

 

[maddenboy]

50 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I keep coming back to the idea that there’s more to the story.  Going back to November, there’s a poster here who said something to the effect that Allen received some unwelcome news during the bye.  Then we get kind of an absent Allen against the Jets and Vikings, the Dorsey growing pains, and we end up sleepwalking through the post-Damar part of the season.  Then, of course, we have the flatline Cinci loss, the Diggs outburst, and the resultant rumors about certain goings on at the Allen homestead involving law enforcement.  
 

I can’t help but wonder if the Diggs sideline reaction against Cinci was a culmination of frustration with 13 seconds, Daboll leaving, Allen’s head in a different planet mid-season, and then the distraction before the Cinci game.   Maybe Diggs has a point about the need for focus. And maybe he’s right.  

continuing this line of inquiry, and incorporating today's stuff [i havent thought this to conclusion yet.  but it seems fertile ground]:

 

Does Diggs think / believe / know that JA has a substance problem and isnt getting the treatment that JA promised Diggs he would get?

 

Why is Diggs not out with tweets or medie leaks that he also LOVES JA?

 

Doesnt JA sound apologetic, a bit?  Doeth he protest too much?

 

Doesnt JA sound like Favre used to (when he was addicted to painkillers) a bit?  Big, Broad, He-Man statements with zero substance.

 

Is that why Diggs showed up, saw all he needed to see, and broke out?

 

Does this explain why Diggs has not asked for more money and has not asked to be traded?  Diggs wants to WIN.  this place is perfect.  As long as QB1 is all in.

 

Is this why McD sounded defensive and/or angry.  That he doesnt want stuff about JA to get out there?  Or that McD is Also annoyed at JA but prefers to handle it in house.  Diggs sees that McD's 'handling' isnt working

 

Is this why JA's girlfriend left?

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by maddenboy

[boater]

6 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

16k+ fine for today, 32k+ for tomorrow, and then 50k+ thurs

He just got a $23 mil signing bonus. I don't think he's worried about the fines. He might not even care to play football again.

 

To think... just days ago, I defended his character and predicted his attendance. Now I feel used.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

He won the SB and he was possibly robbed of one by the officials. He is obviously an aggressive offensive coach. Imho, he's an upgrade to McD. I just didn't like paying the cost to get him. 

 

Yes, the Bills can do much worse than McD. Yes McD doesn't suck. Yes McD hasn't done much in the playoffs with a franchise QB. 

He is just one example of a dynamic offensive mind that could carry the Bills to a MUCH higher level, IMO.  We simply have NO offensive mind in the organization right now on the top tier.  That's a problem.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

He won the SB and he was possibly robbed of one by the officials. He is obviously an aggressive offensive coach. Imho, he's an upgrade to McD. I just didn't like paying the cost to get him. 

 

Yes, the Bills can do much worse than McD. Yes McD doesn't suck. Yes McD hasn't done much in the playoffs with a franchise QB. 

Payton missed the playoffs 3 straight seasons with Drew Brees. Let’s get real here. You just want a change. Like in hockey. 
 

I like Payton as a coach, I would’ve accepted that change. But I put these two coaches on the same level. McDermott is also very aggressive believe it or not.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Bills Bud said:

 Allen shows up to work

So does Diggs. We're talking about one pracitice, my dude. Diggs has never given less than 100% on the field.

[JoPoy88]

5 minutes ago, Bills Bud said:

Diggs is a pos and why is Allen now taking blame when he does everything right? I’m done with Diggs 

Did you actually listen to Allen? He did not “accept blame.” 
 

Oh you’re done with Diggs? Well he’s here for the foreseeable future so maybe find a new team too new guy.