Ed Oliver big extension

[PBF81]

Just now, julian said:

It’s perfectly reasonable to disagree with the signing, I personally would have let him play out the option like Edmunds but the overreaction by some portraying this move as the new Albert Haynesworth debacle isn’t necessary to make their point.

 

Middle of the road money for a good young DT with hopes of upside.

 

I'd say a little bit more than middle of the road money.  I'm hardly in the camp thinking that Oliver sucks, but he's not better than average or so, maybe slightly better.  I simply think that there were better ways to spend that money.  Edmunds got about the same, we no doubt could have had him for the same as Oliver or even less, and right now we have a huge void at LB that IMO is going to cost us something fierce this season.  

 

 

[3rdand12]

42 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That is why we SHOULD be playing that big one tech DT next to him all the time. 

This was seemingly obvious to me.
Did McBeane solve this though ?
the reason I wanted to draft one is to compliment or contrast Oliver

He would tear it up with serious heavy two O linemen player space eating leaning forward always one tech !
I do expect he will get the chance to eat this year via coaching and aggressive QB pressures

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

Are you sure about superior?  Have you seen their WR room?  No Mahomes No Superbowl.  It's that simple.  

Chad Henne made it look pretty easy in the playoffs when he came in

[ROCBillsBeliever]

2 hours ago, LEBills said:

I’m certainly not against signing Ed long term like this, but I think letting him play out his contract year and then having the franchise tag in your pocket if he popped was the best move. The justification for doing this now would be if we were making more cap room to add a DHop or other piece whatever that may be. But I think they just value him more than most on the board do.

 

Over The Cap has the projected 2024 franchise tag for DT's set just shy of $20.9 million... This is under that.

 

And by "this", we're talking about the agent-friendly numbers.

 

I would take an agent-friendly $17 mil over an actual $20.9 mil, any day.

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I'm always one for looking at any perspective - whether it's in agreement with my current line of thinking or not.

 

And for sure the national media is 'relatively high-profile' - if they're bashing the Bills I haven't seen it. So thanks for not backing up your assertion. Makes me think it was baseless.

 

 

 

Presumably you saw my subsequent post.  I misspoke, again, sorry about that and the confusion it caused.  

 

As to the national media, I'm sure that the articles will be out tomorrow, we'll see.  I'll be reading most of them as no doubt you will be too.  We can reconvene after that.  

 

In the varying forums however, this move is taking more of a beating than getting support.  

 

 

[NC-billsfan!]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Then he plays too well and they cant pay him.  Like Edmunds.  

Oh I completely agree, and I’d let him walk. He will command huge money. Im glad Edmunds got his. But I don’t think he’s worth the big pay check. Lots of guys gotta get paid. Tauron Johnson should have an extra zero in his paycheck in my mind before Oliver. 

[bearstobills]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Chad Henne made it look pretty easy in the playoffs when he came in

So you won't budge.....and you're going with the Chad Henne would lead this fantastic Chiefs roster to a Super Bowl take??

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Interesting, I would not have guessed that.

When also you factor in that Oliver is waaaaaay better than Meatball at holding the POA, that paints him in a pretty good light.

I went down that rabbit hole because they are similar built and obviously Williams is beloved.  Oliver was compared to Donald.  He is not Donald.  But being a starting caliber NFL player isnt a bust either.  The amount of money is alot but DT is the 3rd most valuable position on defense behind Edge and Db.  I think Buffalo is wise to pay Oliver instead of Edmunds in a roster construction mindset.  

[John from Riverside]

These signings normally really excite me. I’m in wait-and-see mode on this one.

[julian]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'd say a little bit more than middle of the road money.  I'm hardly in the camp thinking that Oliver sucks, but he's not better than average or so, maybe slightly better.  I simply think that there were better ways to spend that money.  Edmunds got about the same, we no doubt could have had him for the same as Oliver or even less, and right now we have a huge void at LB that IMO is going to cost us something fierce this season.  

 

 

Fair

[RyanC883]

just stupid 

[Chaos]

The board response to a Gabe Davis extension is going to be epic. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Chaos

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, NC-billsfan! said:

Oh I completely agree, and I’d let him walk. He will command huge money. Im glad Edmunds got his. But I don’t think he’s worth the big pay check. Lots of guys gotta get paid. Tauron Johnson should have an extra zero in his paycheck in my mind before Oliver. 

Maybe but the NFL disagrees.  

[Fan in Chicago]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I could.  Not going to.  There are several other forums where the move, more than not, is being made fun of.  

 

 

 

You should. you made the claim that "We're taking a beating in the national media."

I went and searched and have no evidence or written word about said beating. If you are pointing to "forums" or conflating them with "national media" , its totally your fault. 

If you have been called out on your statement, the onus is on you to prove your statement. Else the statement has zero meaning. 

[NC-billsfan!]

4 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The board response to a Gabe Davis extension is going to be epic. 

You sir a a very funny guy.  I’m praying Davis explodes this year.

Edited June 4, 2023 by NC-billsfan!

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, bearstobills said:

So you won't budge.....and you're going with the Chad Henne would lead this fantastic Chiefs roster to a Super Bowl take??

No I'm saying your contention that the Bills roster without Allen performs like the Chiefs without Mahomes is wrong

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I went down that rabbit hole because they are similar built and obviously Williams is beloved.  Oliver was compared to Donald.  He is not Donald.  But being a starting caliber NFL player isnt a bust either.  The amount of money is alot but DT is the 3rd most valuable position on defense behind Edge and Db.  I think Buffalo is wise to pay Oliver instead of Edmunds in a roster construction mindset.  

 

The only bit of that I'd disagree with is that I'd suggest DT is is even more important than any DB on the field because I think good Defense starts in the middle. 

 

[NC-billsfan!]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

Maybe but the NFL disagrees.  

No argument my friend.

[bearstobills]

25 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

For those curious Kyle Williams didnt make a pro bowl until year 5.  Oliver in his his first 4 years has 6 more sacks twice as many forced fumbles and only 2 less tackles for loss.  Salaries have ballooned Oliver has been solid not elite.  The contract matches and provides Buffalo flexibility.  Buffalo could restructure both Dawkins and White and pay Hopkins 15 mil without using void years.

I appreciate this take, but you conveniently left off the disparity in their total tackles.  It's massive.  I wish Ed was Kyle.  Kyle was special.  I have been defending the Ed signing, but if there is a Kylesque player in the draft next year...please jump on him!!

[Fan in Chicago]

19 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I have to apologize, I mispoke, I meant in the national forums and the like.  Even on other Bills' forums the move isn't exactly being viewed optimistically.  Even here from what I've read only a minority seem to think the signing was a great one.  Seems like the majority opinion here is of the "meh" variety, "wait and see."  

 

 

Got it. Again, forums and opinions of fans who dont know how to judge DL performance means squat. I am one of the latter but am glad that we locked up a key position for the long term and removes a "must draft" for next year. 

[bearstobills]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

No I'm saying your contention that the Bills roster without Allen performs like the Chiefs without Mahomes is wrong

My contention is that they are both going nowhere.  

[NC-billsfan!]

1 minute ago, bearstobills said:

I appreciate this take, but you conveniently left off the disparity in their total tackles.  It's massive.  I wish Ed was Kyle.  Kyle was special.  I have been defending the Ed signing, but if there is a Kylesque player in the draft next year...please jump on him!!

Great point.

[Eastport bills]

At 25 years old, he’s shown management enough to warrant the extension. I would have preferred letting him play for his next contract, but if he had his best season like Edmunds, you’re in a bidding war. Face it, 68 for  4 is the going rate for an impactful d-tackle, with 45 guaranteed. They’re betting he anchors their d-line for the next several years. If you trust Beane and Sean’s instincts for young talent, just accept this extension. The fans that think this move precluded the Hopkins signing, it doesn’t.

[GoBills808]

Just now, bearstobills said:

My contention is that they are both going nowhere.  

That's fine and I agree, just saying Henne came in and led that offense on a 98yard TD drive in the playoffs and I do not see the Bills doing that if Allen goes down 

[78thealltimegreat]

It’s a fair deal for both sides Bills have no DTs under contract in 2024 and going to into free agency agents would have had the bills behind the 8 ball with negotiations so not a bad deal 

[3rdand12]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

These signings normally really excite me. I’m in wait-and-see mode on this one.

yes indeed John. me too.

 But hopeful 😀

[boyst]

I'm happy we kept him. I hope we can still improve our front 5

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, julian said:

Fair

 

I just read that it's the 6th most guaranteed money for a DT.  

 

The opinions in that piece are primarily negative and mirror mine.  

 

Here's a quote from someone in another Bills forum:  

 

Quote

 

I'm on the fence with this one. Not sure I would have invested in him at this point. Maybe they are encouraged and want to get ahead of the salary should he have a great year. I don't think if I'm building a team I invest in an undersized dt with his current track record.  

 

 

I generally agree with that.  I don't know what the cap implications are for this year, a lot of times when they make a signing like this it alleviates the cap for this particular season.  The tradeoff is often in guaranteed money.  Not sure how or whether it did that, but that's an awful lot of guaranteed money for Oliver.  If he doesn't improve then it will have proven to have been a bad signing.  

Here's the thing, his biggest knock is that he's undersized, unless this signing makes him get bigger it doesn't alter a glaring weakness.  

 

My first thought was that this was done for future cap reasons combined with a lack of DT talent in our pipeline, really none to speak of, nothing that warrants re-signing in the next couple of years.  

 

If that's the reason why it was done, while acquiescing to seemingly average play at the position, IMO it was a very unwise decision that merely kicks the can of future team-building issues down the road a season or two.   If that's the way it plays out we really don't need that and it creates issues for whomever the next GM would be.  

 

We will see, time will tell.  Not a thing that anyone here says will change anything.  That much we know.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by PBF81

[stevewin]

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So that means for 11 games of his career, he's been dominant.

 

Metaphorically dominant, I assume you meant....

 

As for the last guy TBD posters "ran out of town", the Bills entire organization agreed.   Good, not as bad as we said, whatever...they concluded he wasn't worth keeping----without our help.

 

If you think they wouldn't have kept Edmunds had he not cost $72m, you're kidding yourself.

[SinceThe70s]

13 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Presumably you saw my subsequent post.  I misspoke, again, sorry about that and the confusion it caused.  

 

As to the national media, I'm sure that the articles will be out tomorrow, we'll see.  I'll be reading most of them as no doubt you will be too.  We can reconvene after that.  

 

In the varying forums however, this move is taking more of a beating than getting support.  

 

 

 

I did see your subsequent post, thanks.

 

TBH, I'll be surprised if this signing gets much play at all in the national media tomorrow- positive or negative. 

[MikePJ76]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's fine and I agree, just saying Henne came in and led that offense on a 98yard TD drive in the playoffs and I do not see the Bills doing that if Allen goes down 

Do you realize how different it would be if the opposing team had a week to prepare for chad henne playing qb....

 

not my argument to butt in on but still......Reid has a history of bad quarterbacks stepping in for his teams and winning.  In philly he always had a good defense and a good offensive line.   The years he did not they were not good.  

 

anyway, the backup coming in during a game can cause problems for a defense if they are an experienced veteran, if they had prepared for him it would be totally different.

[TheBrownBear]

Nice.  Cap space.  Now Beane can sign some former Panthers street free agents.

 

I'm kidding, of course (I hope)

[NC-billsfan!]

2 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

At 25 years old, he’s shown management enough to warrant the extension. I would have preferred letting him play for his next contract, but if he had his best season like Edmunds, you’re in a bidding war. Face it, 68 for  4 is the going rate for an impactful d-tackle, with 45 guaranteed. They’re betting he anchors their d-line for the next several years. If you trust Beane and Sean’s instincts for young talent, just accept this extension. The fans that think this move precluded the Hopkins signing, it doesn’t.

You bring up excellent points. I hope you’re right. I’m a huge fan of big balls Beane. I just am in the camp, to get the most out ofOliver  I think a contract year would make him a very serious force. Possibily with a SB win. If he’s hyper motivated to get paid, maybe that’s the last piece. I’m still mulling this over, but I’m leaning meh.

[bearstobills]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's fine and I agree, just saying Henne came in and led that offense on a 98yard TD drive in the playoffs and I do not see the Bills doing that if Allen goes down 

If Allen goes down for the season, we are indeed cooked.  But in a playoff game, for a couple of drives?  Pacheko ripped off a 40 yard run on their penultimate drive.  Is Cook or Harris not capable of that?  Aren't Diggs and gang better than Kadarius Toney and gang.  Henne completed a 4 yard pass to seal the game, and everyone went nuts.  Good for him....seriously.  But is Kyle Allen that bad that he can't put together a good drive and a game sealing 4 yard completion when called upon?

[MasterStrategist]

Nice job by Beane and team.  Re-watch the games from LY, and Ed disrupted alot of games in the 2nd half of season (when his ankle healed).

 

Beane mentioned a few times, unprovoked, that they'd like to extend Gabe and Ed this offseason.

 

The $$$ might seem high to some, but it's not a top 10 deal and Ed is a young/core player in our defense.

[AuntieEm]

3 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

That was one of my first thoughts. Maybe freeing up space for Hopkins?

Maybe he's a piece in some trade but the other team wanted him under more contract years and they could have gave Beane a number they'd be willing to pay Oliver.   Can't say that I th ink he earned that money, hoping they know something we don't. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

 

You are the only that keeps saying that, which explains quite a bit

 

 

Keep trolling this thread repeatedly with stupid shlt and you get what you deserve 🤷‍♂️

TY Simon...  

[Chandler#81]

3 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

A month ago I said we should extend him, because if he balls out like an Edmunds year last year.. we would not afford him... I GOT SLAMMED for it. 

You get rightfully slammed for all your takes. Every once in a while, one sticks to the wall..

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Confused…. I was reading him as a lesser Darius 2.0

 

ok LFG