Logic Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. 6 13 8 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 If things don't go his way I hope we at least get footage of him blowing a gasket again, ya dig? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 The last paragraph was all you needed to type to make your point, 😁 Yes Dorsey needs to have better play designs so that one play helps support the next play etc etc, I’m going with KD being better with a season of being an OC behind him, 🤞 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr. Jerk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I agree that his year is the test. Let's not pretend that the Bills offense wasn't good last year. 2nd most in points is nothing to scoff at. But I agree that once other teams found an answer to the Bills blazing hot start they never developed a second punch. Kincaid doesn't really fit any standard mold. Offensive Coordinators who have found ways to take someone who doesn't quite fit and use them in unique ways stand out. There's a reason why Kyle Shanahan got the Niners to the NFC Championship with Brock Purdy at QB and why he felt like he had to get CMC. It was Belicheck coming out with a 2 TE set with Gronkowski and Hernandez that made one of the best offenses in history. Larry Fitzgerald moving inside to extend his career, the Rivers to Antonio Gates connection all took mismatches and made the most of it. After this year, with a year under his belt, he has to have a second and third punch ready. When teams are daring the Bills to run the ball, can they pound it. When they are taking away Diggs, can you make them pay or scheme him open? If not, we need to be moving on. 4 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! Edited April 28, 2023 by Logic 1 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 This reminds me, we need a nickname for Dorsey. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Just now, Don Otreply said: The last paragraph was all you needed to type to make your point, 😁 Yes Dorsey needs to have better play designs so that one play helps support the next play etc etc, I’m going with KD being better with a season of being an OC behind him, 🤞 Yeah - he definitely got stale and probably a bit overwhelmed as the year continued. Allen also looked overwhelmed quite a bit as the year went on. I think Shakir/harty can both come in and make some plays. Adding kinkaid and making that a trio gives you a variety of weapons to attack. Can use shakir as a bit more of a conventional slot WR with some deceptive speed Can use harty as a speed threat on some plays, and remove Davis - different style of player at X. Can put kinkaid in that same mix, a size mismatch against nickel backs, and athleticism against many tight ends. You can run a lot of the similar styles of plays from different formations using the same players too. i'd like to see all 3 of these players in motion quite a bit when they are on the field. As for Cook/hines? I expect them to be able to play as slot WRs occaisionally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I'll let him know. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! Sad yet true, 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 There should have been no excuses last year 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 He has to get better, and I hope the roster offers no excuses whatsoever, as Logic suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I have a feeling that the offense we saw last year was a somewhat neutered form of Dorsey's offense. The Bills bringing in OJ Howard seems like there was something brewing there before we saw how he played and subsequently cut. Morris is ok and in the beginning of the year they seemed to roll him out for more snaps and then scaled him back. It felt like there was something missing last year and Kincaid may well fit into that spot to be able to run a full playbook now. I do think there is reason to think there will be more creativity. But I also agree that if the offense doesn't evolve, Dorsey need to be bounced. Let's give the fella a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: Why are we at this already, the day after we get Kincaid? Can't we enjoy our picks for a few days before going into the "OC better get it right" Banter? Yes apparently we are. At least it isn't another "I have a great nickname for ....." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, mannc said: There should have been no excuses last year Except the starting QB injured his elbow on his throwing arm, a player temporarily died on the field of play, one of our top shelf safeties was out with a neck injury, but ya, no excuses…, 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! LOL! 4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: Yes apparently we are. At least it isn't another "I have a great nickname for ....." HA HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, Logic said: Crying and moaning and having kneejerk reactions is my absolute right as an American, darn it! You did quite well crying and moaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. LOL Knox is so overrated by this board he really doesn't do anything at a high level- can't block well, runs sloppy routes, just an average player overall He is not a mismatch in any sense. Defenses aren't gameplanning Dawson Knox 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Except the starting QB injured his elbow on his throwing arm, a player temporarily died on the field of play, one of our top shelf safeties was out with a neck injury, but ya, no excuses…, But those are all Ken Dorsey's fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Firebaugh Kid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Unpopular opinion: they didn't use Knox in this kind of role consistently because he's a bit raw/wonky/lacks smoothness. Edited April 28, 2023 by The Firebaugh Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo03 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) What if his Tummy hurts and he gets bad diarrhea during the game? Is that a good excuse? Edited April 28, 2023 by Buffalo03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Except the starting QB injured his elbow on his throwing arm, a player temporarily died on the field of play, one of our top shelf safeties was out with a neck injury, but ya, no excuses…, Allen didn’t miss a snap and barely even appeared on the injury report. The rest had nothing to do with Dorsey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: LOL Knox is so overrated by this board he really doesn't do anything at a high level- can't block well, runs sloppy routes, just an average player overall He is not a mismatch in any sense. Defenses aren't gameplanning Dawson Knox I disagree, he does block well or above average for a tight end, knows his blocking assignments especially when the O Line miscues. Last years offensive line when he was constantly chipping and helping out. And he is a good teammate with a positive reaction to the Kincaid pick. I do agree, no one gameplans around him, about what you expect for a 3rd draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Bud Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) I still think our weapons are not top 10 in the league. Diggs is the only sure fire reliable target Edited April 28, 2023 by Bills Bud 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Ken Dorsey cannot fail; he can only be failed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said: Unpopular opinion: they didn't use Knox in this kind of role consistently because he's a bit raw/wonky/lacks smoothness. otoh wasnt he the most reliable receiver on the team in terms of targets/catches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Logic Kincaid will line-up often as the 3rd Wideout or slot ; pay attention to what McBeane have been saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorquemada Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, Bangarang said: This reminds me, we need a nickname for Dorsey. Ken Cutesy? Ken Couldntdobetterthan10pointsinthebiggestgameoftheyearsey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I hate to say that Dorsey gets a "pass" for year 1, but it's not uncommon for OC's to have bumpy rookie outings and come into their own in year 2. That's certainly the hope. I agree w/ the OP wholeheartedly. Honestly, this should be the #1 ranked offense in the league all season. Dorsey has to prove himself this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Bangarang said: This reminds me, we need a nickname for Dorsey. (Just say the following 3 words fast) Ken See Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, dorquemada said: otoh wasnt he the most reliable receiver on the team in terms of targets/catches? I mean he had the lowest ADOT among Bills pass catchers so you'd certainly hope so targets/catches does not equal reliability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Couldn't have stated it any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 27 minutes ago, Bangarang said: This reminds me, we need a nickname for Dorsey. Show him the Dorsey. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 His excuse can be Brandon Beane still hasn’t fixed the OL easily 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dablitzkrieg Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 42 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. Go outside for a bit. It is not even summer, barely spring. You may have a heart attack by then with your anxiety 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 45 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: The last paragraph was all you needed to type to make your point, 😁 Yes Dorsey needs to have better play designs so that one play helps support the next play etc etc, I’m going with KD being better with a season of being an OC behind him, 🤞 It will help his play design quite a bit when a guy in the slot can actually get open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. You are 100% correct. People in this forum have said “Super Bowl or Bust” and that McBeane is on the hot seat. That is not reality. What is reality is that Ken Dorsey’s job is likely on the line next season. By making the Kincaid selection, they essentially doubled down on him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 55 minutes ago, Logic said: Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit. The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency. Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective. Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse. If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. Spot on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I think some of us might be underestimating the impact Damien Harris will have immediately. That was our biggest addition, IMO. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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