No excuses for Ken Dorsey this year

[aristocrat]

We’re gonna go from the second scoring offense to the first baby. No excuses 

[ProcessTruster]

the Bills have been one of the NFL's very highest scoring offenses in recent years. 

 

I do not understand the point of the OP.  

[loyal2dagame]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

Well, I'm sorry that you're feeling Mindbottled,

 

He DOES need to improve in year two. To say that everything he's doing is just fine and dandy and that the Bills offense couldn't and shouldn't have been better down the stretch is, in my opinion, not entirely correct.

 

Every offense COULD have and some should have been better at times.  

I don't understand why the unrealistic expectations started here. The Bills have 1, only 1 good receiver. The Bills have a oline that is not great in pass blocking and deficits are hidden by the savior. 

The Bills #2 and #3 receivers have proven to be unreliable and underachieving. 

We had to bring in 2 receivers(Beasley and Brown) that were out of the league for the end of the season and the playoff run. 

But yeah.  It's on Dorsey's playcalling and inability to adjust. 

 

Unrealistic expectations.

Edited April 28, 2023 by loyal2dagame

[Toyo321]

4 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

the Bills have been one of the NFL's very highest scoring offenses in recent years. 

 

I do not understand the point of the OP.  

Because Josh had to play like superman running all over the place dodging defenders for us to score those points.  They are going to rein him in this year and Dorsey has no excuses that "hey we didn't know for sure" or "well if we would have just done this better",  start making plays for the talent you have on O.   Calling plays that give us the chance to the move the ball with out Josh running like his heads going to get chopped off would be a very welcome addition to this offense.

 

Josh needs to stop playing hero ball before he gets hurt.  It is only a matter of time if he continues to do that he will get injured for sure.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

 Would have liked March

Hope Torrence falls to us

2 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Because Josh had to play like superman running all over the place dodging defenders for us to score those points.  They are going to rein him in this year and Dorsey has no excuses that "hey we didn't know for sure" or "well if we would have just done this better",  start making plays for the talent you have on O.   Calling plays that give us the chance to the move the ball with out Josh running like his heads going to get chopped off would be a very welcome addition to this offense.

 

Josh needs to stop playing hero ball before he gets hurt.  It is only a matter of time if he continues to do that he will get injured for sure.

It's not all on Dorsey. We all saw guys open underneath and Allen passed up the easy completion for the hero play too often. Too many picks. 

But bad Oline play almost all year and the elbow injury took its toll on Josh. 

Not that he needs to rebound because he was still incredible, bit I hope Josh is a little less error prone and a little more conservative this year with more weapons. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit.

The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency.

Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective.

Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse.

If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. 

 

 Statistically our 2022 offense was better than the Daboll led 2021 offense and not quite as good as the 2020 offense. For instance we had more yards per game last year than 2021 & 2020. 

 

 We just did it with more big plays vs long sustained drives. But in saying that we still were within a half of a first down pper game compared to 2021. Too many redzone turnovers and short fgs kept our ppg average down this year.

 

 But I also get your point that the RBs & TEs need to see more targets for this offense to be more effective. Part of that is on Josh, part of it's on Dorsey and part of it's on that terrible oline.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2023 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Bills Bud]

Yeah there is. He doesn't have a true wr2

[TampaBillsJunkie]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL

 

Knox is so overrated by this board

 

he really doesn't do anything at a high level- can't block well, runs sloppy routes, just an average player overall

 

He is not a mismatch in any sense. Defenses aren't gameplanning Dawson Knox

he makes great catches then drops easy ones.

[Starr Almighty]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit.

The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency.

Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective.

Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse.

If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. 

Knox stayed in to block alot because the line was garbage. Hopefully the additions will open that up to use Knox more often. I expect Dalton to line up like Beas in most of his plays 

[Mister Defense]

8 hours ago, Logic said:

Like many here, I like Dalton Kincaid the player quite a bit.

The only hesitance I have in drafting him is that I was constantly yelling at my screen last year because Dorsey wasn't effectively scheming the athletic, mismatch tight end we ALREADY have on our roster and pay big money to. I'm dubious that a guy who couldn't find a way to effectively use one tight end will suddenly know how to effectively use two. For a first round tight end who figures to be second on the depth chart to be a worthwhile use of draft capital, he needs to actually be utilized with effectiveness and frequency.

Moreover, I was and am concerned about what I perceive to be Dorsey's failure to use the offensive weapons on the Bills roster in the way that best suits their traits. We drafted James Cook and traded for Nyheim Hines largely because both are receiving threats and mismatches against linebackers -- then completely failed to deploy them in that fashion. Gabe Davis did a lot of damage his first two years from the slot, matching up against small nickel corners, safeties, and linebackers. Dorsey rarely used him as such last year. As already mentioned, Dawson Knox is an athletic mismatch in the passing game in his own right, Dorsey failed to use him as much more than a last resort outlet receiver. Now add Kincaid to the pile of guys that require a specific type of usage to be most effective.

Going into 2023, with a formidable duo of tight ends, two speedy receiving backs, a top five WR, a big-bodied WR with excellent career touchdown production, and even new, speedy additions in Harty and Sherfield -- not to mention whoever the Bills add throughout the rest of draft weekend -- there will no longer be any excuses or training wheels for Ken Dorsey, in my opinion. "Not enough weapons" will no longer be a viable excuse.

If Dorsey can't scheme up a consistently effective offense that consistently makes use of guys like Cook, Knox, and Kincaid, he should be shown the door at the end of the year, in my opinion. There will be no shortage of brilliant offensive minds champing at the bit to work with Josh Allen and co if Dorsey can't cut it. 

 

 

Great take, but need to add in his almost complete lack of focus/use/creativity in calling the running game too.

 

If he has not done a HUGE amount of work, including working with top offensive minds, in the off season, it will be glaringly obvious.  If so, McDermott will need to do something he has never done (?) and fire an important coach during the year.  Or the Bills are doomed.

 

I think the too conservative McDermott will do this.  But hopefully Dorsey is already well on his way of re-inventing himself as a coach in the off season and ready to make dramatic changes.

 

I don't think this fan base will settle for the status quo, even from day one this year.

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

32 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

Knox stayed in to block alot because the line was garbage. Hopefully the additions will open that up to use Knox more often. I expect Dalton to line up like Beas in most of his plays 

It’s honestly pretty crazy how much production we got on offense with a qb with a bum elbow and a couple big time weak links on the offensive line 

 

unfortunately it caught up with us in the playoffs 

Edited April 29, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

 Would have liked March

Hope Torrence falls to us

It's not all on Dorsey. We all saw guys open underneath and Allen passed up the easy completion for the hero play too often. Too many picks. 

But bad Oline play almost all year and the elbow injury took its toll on Josh. 

Not that he needs to rebound because he was still incredible, bit I hope Josh is a little less error prone and a little more conservative this year with more weapons. 

Could be wishful thinking but I think the elbow injury really hurt his touch/accuracy on the underneath stuff.  Also like you touched on its pretty tough to string a  10+ play drive together with the underneath throws/checkdowns when the probability of a holding penalty/sack blowing up the whole drive is super high with the offensive line we were trotting out there 

[NickelCity]

Dorsey seemed inept at adjustments and situational football. 

 

But OCs are often critiqued and there is so much context we'll never know that goes into it. I hope he's got what it takes because I think OC is the biggest question mark across the entire team. 

[ganesh]

Its not all on Dorsey.

 

The Bills did have a top 5 Offense last season.  We had injuries to the OL, WRs and QB.  

 

The Bills defense was more problematic 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

31 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Could be wishful thinking but I think the elbow injury really hurt his touch/accuracy on the underneath stuff.  Also like you touched on its pretty tough to string a  10+ play drive together with the underneath throws/checkdowns when the probability of a holding penalty/sack blowing up the whole drive is super high with the offensive line we were trotting out there 

Fair points.

I'm a cardiologist not a sports med or orthopedic guy so I can't really refute this idea that the short to intermediate throws were somehow harder.  Yet I can't think of any reason why they would be.  

Regardless it's on to next season and hopefully Josh is just a bit cleaner with the ball.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Fair points.

I'm a cardiologist not a sports med or orthopedic guy so I can't really refute this idea that the short to intermediate throws were somehow harder.  Yet I can't think of any reason why they would be.  

Regardless it's on to next season and hopefully Josh is just a bit cleaner with the ball.

I saw a good video on it somewhere but can’t find it now of course lol. There’s a lot more danger underneath if your accuracy isn’t quite there compared to overthrowing guys deep too which seemed to be his common miss.  

[GoBills808]

6 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Because Josh had to play like superman running all over the place dodging defenders for us to score those points.  They are going to rein him in this year and Dorsey has no excuses that "hey we didn't know for sure" or "well if we would have just done this better",  start making plays for the talent you have on O.   Calling plays that give us the chance to the move the ball with out Josh running like his heads going to get chopped off would be a very welcome addition to this offense.

 

Josh needs to stop playing hero ball before he gets hurt.  It is only a matter of time if he continues to do that he will get injured for sure.

That's been the Bills offense the last 4 years

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

That's been the Bills offense the last 4 years

Thankfully Miami and NYJ have the same issues and I don’t think rodgers or tua are as capable in those situations.

 

We might have had the best offensive line in the division last year and it was so bad 😂

Edited April 29, 2023 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Jeff1954]

There is no need to overthink this. Copy KC’s usage of Kelce and LV’s usage of Waller. Mix and match.

[mrags]

His excuse will be the Bills wasted a 3rd rd pick on a useless backup OLB that they used in punt and kick coverage instead of drafting another OL or weapon at WR.