RD 1, Pick 25: TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah

[Augie]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Completely agree.  I know he said he would have run a 4.5 if he did the combine and I honestly don't doubt it.  Even on that "math" play he still managed roughly a 5.18 with contact on the route and stopping/adjustment at the end.  That's more of a "length of play" than it was "actual game speed".

 

He should have gone in the top 20 without question.

 

I think we are all trained to think of TE’s as questionable first round value. But the game is changing, and they can be game changing playmakers too as we see here. I’m glad he is at least a wiling blocker, even if it needs some work. The more well rounded you can be, the more dangerous you can be. 

 

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Where did you get the idea he was the best receiver in the draft including WRs?  Any sources since it was "unanimous"? Thankfully you didnt take a gratuitous jab at Dorsey who is now a OBD punching bag.  I think you were right about OJ Howard who scored more TDs for the Texans than the bills last year.

The majority of "experts " I heard talking about him almost unanimously said he's the best receiving threat in the Draft. 

They talk about his elite route running, separation and hands like glue. 

Shoot even Beane said he's basically a 6'4 version of Cole Beasley , which is a helluva complement imo. Dude is going to obliterate LBs and S 

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I think we are all trained to think of TE’s as questionable first round value. But the game is changing, and they can be game changing playmakers too as we see here. I’m glad he is at least a wiling blocker, even if it needs some work. The more well rounded you can be, the more dangerous you can be. 

 

I think my favorite quote that I heard about his blocking went something like this:  "why would you hitch a boat to your sports car?"

 

Knox is going to be the guy that is setup for the inline blocking because he did it a lot last year with our patchy oline.  I'd honestly be surprised if they have Kincaid lineup to block on more than 15% of his snaps.  The only times I will find it acceptable is if it's meant as a misdirection and they are overloading his side or if it is a "4th and short" play. 

 

 

 

On top of that, I still think Knox has a lot more left to show and is still developing as a TE after being a WR and QB for most of his playing career so I have no problem with the money that they spent on him to keep being what he is and hopefully develops even more than he has.

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 I know he said he would have run a 4.5 if he did the combine and I honestly don't doubt it.  Even on that "math" play he still managed roughly a 5.18 with contact on the route and stopping/adjustment at the end.  That's more of a "length of play" than it was "actual game speed".

 

Not to mention he slowed down at the end of the play AND, he's wearing football equipment.

 

1 minute ago, JerseyBills said:

The majority of "experts " I heard talking about him almost unanimously said he's the best receiving threat in the Draft. 

They talk about his elite route running, separation and hands like glue.

 

Kincaide's other recurringly mentioned attribute is his run after the catch ability.

 

[Augie]

21 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I think my favorite quote that I heard about his blocking went something like this:  "why would you hitch a boat to your sports car?"

 

Knox is going to be the guy that is setup for the inline blocking because he did it a lot last year with our patchy oline.  I'd honestly be surprised if they have Kincaid lineup to block on more than 15% of his snaps.  The only times I will find it acceptable is if it's meant as a misdirection and they are overloading his side or if it is a "4th and short" play. 

 

 

 

On top of that, I still think Knox has a lot more left to show and is still developing as a TE after being a WR and QB for most of his playing career so I have no problem with the money that they spent on him to keep being what he is and hopefully develops even more than he has.

 

I’m sorry, maybe I should have been more clear. We all know he’s not an every down, in-line blocker. But 90%+ of the time the ball is not going to him. I saw a clip somewhere that showed him getting the ball less than half of the plays. It’s what he did when the ball did NOT go to him that left me impressed by his willingness. Blocking in the run game and down field is an important ingredient. EVERYBODY blocks in the run game, and downfield.  He’s game, he just needs some work there for the next level. 

 

 

.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Augie

[BigAl2526]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

I think my favorite quote that I heard about his blocking went something like this:  "why would you hitch a boat to your sports car?"

 

Knox is going to be the guy that is setup for the inline blocking because he did it a lot last year with our patchy oline.  I'd honestly be surprised if they have Kincaid lineup to block on more than 15% of his snaps.  The only times I will find it acceptable is if it's meant as a misdirection and they are overloading his side or if it is a "4th and short" play. 

 

 

 

On top of that, I still think Knox has a lot more left to show and is still developing as a TE after being a WR and QB for most of his playing career so I have no problem with the money that they spent on him to keep being what he is and hopefully develops even more than he has.

I think it is obvious that Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving tight end.  I can imagine, however, that there will be occasions where Josh will read that the defense is overplaying the pass when the Bills have Kincaid and know on the field at the same time, especially if Kincaid lines up in the slot a lot.  I think there will be times when Josh audibles to a run and Kincaid will need to block.

[The Wiz]

37 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

I think it is obvious that Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving tight end.  I can imagine, however, that there will be occasions where Josh will read that the defense is overplaying the pass when the Bills have Kincaid and know on the field at the same time, especially if Kincaid lines up in the slot a lot.  I think there will be times when Josh audibles to a run and Kincaid will need to block.

Or audible him to come in and block and have Knox run a route.  

 

That's the beauty of it.  He makes it more of a guess for the defense than Knox inline and Gilliam in the backfield as a FB (granted I never saw that dump off coming against Tennessee).

 

Just need to use the weapons they have the right way.

Edited May 6, 2023 by The Wiz

[Billsatlastin2018]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:47 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He didn’t have socks on though. What type of person doesn’t wear socks when they meet someone?

A manager of 2 World Champions in Baseball- Paul Beeston!

And some odd dude named Jobs. (He didn’t wear shoes either, at the time)

[3rdand12]

13 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I think it is obvious that Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving tight end.  I can imagine, however, that there will be occasions where Josh will read that the defense is overplaying the pass when the Bills have Kincaid and know on the field at the same time, especially if Kincaid lines up in the slot a lot.  I think there will be times when Josh audibles to a run and Kincaid will need to block.

Perhaps he can just take the defender (or tw0 LOL ) out of that zone so Josh has room to scamper ?

[3rdand12]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:54 PM, PrimeTime101 said:

I think there are parts missing. lets list.

"we had two TEs who ca catch" Knox and who? Cause Knox was the only one that could catch.

I think you are missing the part that how often Knox was dropping balls. 

I think you are missing the part where Knox was not getting good separation a good chunk of the time

I think you are missing the part where Our OC came out of a system in Carolina and watched how well top catching TEs do.

I think you are missing the part of how bad our line was last year as well.

And

I think its silly to misunderstand how good this player is in Kincaid... Many feel Kincaid would be the top te in the last 8 drafts.

 

Its crazy to think Dorsey will not play a Kincaid properly.. Just because of what happened last year, you can not assume Dorsey will ignore Kincaid.

 

2 TE's that can catch? Like Knox/Kincaid?

 

And the bolded is crazier talk yet... Nearly Each Down Fans Saw Players Open? come on man... Stop with that crazy narrative lol

Q.Morris actually caught what was thrown to him. And yes I saw him hanging out a few times 
 You can always see players open.

 But thats not the play call. or what Josh is looking for

 And I hardly think its crazy to have concerns about LONG BALL Dorsey. lets run them all deep and wait LOL
all in good fun my friend 

On 5/4/2023 at 7:22 PM, Dr. Who said:

I'm not certain that you are properly discerning my meaning. If you want to spend time searching this site, just in the last day or so I wrote a rather lengthy exposition of problems with Ken Dorsey's first year as OC. Essentially, I agree that he is doubtfully incompetent, but has a ton of room to grow. I think he'll get there, but I don't have certitude. The sad hats are for those who disliked paying up to be able to draft Kincaid. Since you seem to believe Kincaid was a great pick, I don't think you own one. Those who do are welcome to keep that hat. I don't think it's a good look, but tastes differ.

Thanks Doc !

[Nephilim17]

19 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Cover1 discussed how fluid he is along with other parts of his game.  It's a good watch including the catch your talking about.

 

 

 

 

Awesome video that has me even more stoked about Kincaid and our future offense.

Some takeaways:
1. He has great spatial awareness and can find the soft spots in a zone

2. His transition from catcher to runner is exception and while his eyes and hands are ready for the ball his body is already turning to run which gets him going super fast

3. Great catch radius and the 50/50 balls will be 70/30 balls

4. He's a "functional and willing" blocker who can block corners and safeties and maybe some LBs. They said you don't want him blocking Judon right now but he's not as bad as advertised here and they said to compare him to Gesicki is total "disrescpect"; he's gonna work on blocking and put in effort.
5. You've got a pick your poison now in this offense with safety help and leaving him one on one in the middle when Diggs and Davis go deep, he's gonna win a lot

6. He's now gonna give the Bills that slot-focused offense we had with good/younger Beasely

 

Watch the video. This is exciting stuff. 

 

p.s. when those Cover 1 boys graduate high school they're gonna have great careers at this. So much better than the "writers" we see on the Bills beat who just rehash press conference quotes with no real breakdown. 

[PrimeTime101]

23 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Kincaid was unanimously considered the best receiver in this draft, including WRs and if you watch the tape it clearly shows his amazing receiving ability 

 

He'll do wonders for Knox and the offenses ability to be more versatile from a personnel standpoint, which is what I believe Dorsey wanted last year because of the OJ Howard acquisition 

100% agree

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

Q.Morris actually caught what was thrown to him. And yes I saw him hanging out a few times 
 You can always see players open.

 But thats not the play call. or what Josh is looking for

 And I hardly think its crazy to have concerns about LONG BALL Dorsey. lets run them all deep and wait LOL
all in good fun my friend 

Come on man... you cant compare that, to what we have now....... I get all in good fun  but the crazy narratives have to stop man lol

[mathja]

I wonder if scouts would consider Kincaid a great blocker for a slot receiver. Is he as good a blocker as Cooper Kupp or Jamison Crowder or Evan Engram or THE Beas? It’s probably not fair to stack him up against tight ends when it comes to blocking.  
 

I’m hoping that Dalton Kincaid turns into a way healthier version of George Kittle.

[Big Blitz]

Interesting 

 

 

Maybe we really have been hunting 12 personnel for a few years now.   

[Augie]

19 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

I think it is obvious that Kincaid was drafted to be a receiving tight end.  I can imagine, however, that there will be occasions where Josh will read that the defense is overplaying the pass when the Bills have Kincaid and know on the field at the same time, especially if Kincaid lines up in the slot a lot.  I think there will be times when Josh audibles to a run and Kincaid will need to block.

 

He will spend some time in-line next to a tackle, I’m sure, but he will be mostly in the slot. If you have him in the slot he needs to be blocking on every running play. Even the WR’s need to block. You don’t take a play off because the ball is not coming to you. Somebody else has the ball, and you need to keep your guy off of him. You block for the man with the ball, not just Josh. Kincaid seems fine with throwing himself into the mix to do his best, even if it’s not his strength. I loved his attitude and willingness in the clip I saw of him NOT getting the ball. That’s a team guy. 

[John from Riverside]

I’ve been the thought that he can’t block better than Isaiah McKenzie or Cole Beasley. It’s just kind of stupid.
 

He literally can just put the 250 pound body in the way of somebody and he is blocking better than those guys did

 

If you compare his blocking to a blocking tight in probably subpar, but but we really should be comparing it to is a slot receiver

[White Linen]

What a terrific young man Dalton appears to be. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I’ve mean the thought that he can’t block better than Isaiah McKenzie or Cole Beasley. It’s just kind of stupid.
 

He literally can just put the 250 pound body in the way of somebody and he is blocking better than those guys did

 

If you compare his blocking to a blocking tight in probably subpar, but but we really should be comparing it to is a slot receiver

 

Exactly... there's no way Kincaid isn't a better blocker than 95% of the slot receivers in the league just based on being a good athlete who is 50 lbs heavier than most of them.

 

A better question would be is if he's a better blocker than Gabriel Davis (our best blocking WR who is big for a wideout).

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I’ve been the thought that he can’t block better than Isaiah McKenzie or Cole Beasley. It’s just kind of stupid.
 

He literally can just put the 250 pound body in the way of somebody and he is blocking better than those guys did

 

If you compare his blocking to a blocking tight in probably subpar, but but we really should be comparing it to is a slot receiver

I agree.  He’s a very good blocking slot WR. I’ve watched a bunch of game tape- and his misses are really bad. Many plays where he just couldn’t even get his hands on the CB and the play went for a loss. Also many plays where he did enough to spring the back.  There will be times where we’ll like 

 

but you’re right…. He a solid blocking slot WR

[John from Riverside]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

I agree.  He’s a very good blocking slot WR. I’ve watched a bunch of game tape- and his misses are really bad. Many plays where he just couldn’t even get his hands on the CB and the play went for a loss. Also many plays where he did enough to spring the back.  There will be times where we’ll like 

 

but you’re right…. He a solid blocking slot WR

How did you get this picture of me?

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

How did you get this picture of me?

The old fashioned way John!

[DapperCam]

I know his position is TE, but what if we just pretend he is a big body slot WR and have Knox play the actual TE position?

 

His blocking needs work for a TE, but it is probably pretty good for a WR.

[Augie]

37 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I know his position is TE, but what if we just pretend he is a big body slot WR and have Knox play the actual TE position?

 

His blocking needs work for a TE, but it is probably pretty good for a WR.

 

I hope we never have to tag him, because it will lead to the obvious question of “what is his position?”  He would argue that he’s NOT a TE but a member of the higher paid WR class, and I expect that down the road I will have to agree with him. Jimmy Graham comes to mind. Time will tell. 

 

 

.

Edited May 7, 2023 by Augie

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

I know his position is TE, but what if we just pretend he is a big body slot WR and have Knox play the actual TE position?

 

His blocking needs work for a TE, but it is probably pretty good for a WR.

Fairly confidant that will be the plan.

[Since1981]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

hope we never have to tag him, because it will lead to the obvious question of “what is his position?”

Getting about 5 yrs ahead of ourselves, no??? I pray we have this Kelse-Gronk-esk problem in 5 yrs!!

[NewEra]

Still can’t believe he fell to 25 and Beane traded up for him!!! 

 

[ColoradoBills]

On 5/5/2023 at 10:05 PM, The Wiz said:

Or audible him to come in and block and have Knox run a route.  

 

That's the beauty of it.  He makes it more of a guess for the defense than Knox inline and Gilliam in the backfield as a FB (granted I never saw that dump off coming against Tennessee).

 

Just need to use the weapons they have the right way.

 

I've already said I believe the Kincaid will help with Knox's production.  He's going to get lost in the wash more often.

Knox and Kincaid crossing can be a problem for the LBs too.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Since1981 said:

Getting about 5 yrs ahead of ourselves, no??? I pray we have this Kelse-Gronk-esk problem in 5 yrs!!

 

Just pointing it out to the people who think we took a TE too high, or he’s a lousy blocker for a TE. I mean, I know he’s a TE, but he’s not really a TE. 

 

And yes, I know it’s way too soon but I’m not really thinking 5 years down the road. I’m just trying to highlight the “TE Classification Dilemma” for those who are thinking of the position in the more traditional sense. 

 

And yes again, let us hope this is a real issue down the road because he is such an All Pro stud! 

[Warcodered]

 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I hope we never have to tag him, because it will lead to the obvious question of “what is his position?”  He would argue that he’s NOT a TE but a member of the higher paid WR class, and I expect that down the road I will have to agree with him. Jimmy Graham comes to mind. Time will tell. 

 

 

.

If we have to find out, chances are things went well to get there

[PrimeTime101]

6 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I hope we never have to tag him, because it will lead to the obvious question of “what is his position?”  He would argue that he’s NOT a TE but a member of the higher paid WR class, and I expect that down the road I will have to agree with him. Jimmy Graham comes to mind. Time will tell. 

 

HE played 30% (roughly) of his snaps on the line. Lets reverse this. How many WR's have any snaps on the line. What % will Kincaid be on the line for Buffalo if Knox is not in that specific play or out for the game. If that comes out to be any % over say 10% Then he is still a big bodied TE that plays WR.

 

Only time and stats will tell

[HappyDays]

 

[Beck Water]

12 hours ago, DapperCam said:

I know his position is TE, but what if we just pretend he is a big body slot WR and have Knox play the actual TE position?

 

His blocking needs work for a TE, but it is probably pretty good for a WR.

 

I think this is exactly what they plan to do

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yes!

[Sestak4ever]

Sure sounds like the talent and attitude are all there. It basically falls on Dorsey to properly utilize him and integrate all our weapons to be successful. Dorsey might not be on the hot seat, but plenty of eyes will be focused on him.

[NewEra]

Anyone listen to The Rockport Report draft recap pod from a couple weeks ago?   Nate Geary was the guest and he was brutal in that particular episode  Maybe he should refrain from putting down beers.  Forever. 
 

His reasoning for Kincaid being a bad pick was Dorsey and his play calling last season + the fact that they ran less 12 personnel than any team in the league.  If Dorsey is the problem with drafting Kincaid….. then Dorsey is the problem and won’t be around long anyway. It has nothing to do with Kincaid.  Basically disregarding the fact that Kincaid will be used as the slot the majority of the time.  Refuting the fact that bringing in OJ Howard last year (and guaranteeing him 3.1m) had anything to do with Dorsey wanting to implement more 12 personnel…. Even though the panthers ran the 2nd most 12 when in Carolina.  
 

It was a cringeworthy portion of pod on his end.  But down the beers nate-  you’re a lightweight 

Edited May 8, 2023 by NewEra

[cle23]

18 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

HE played 30% (roughly) of his snaps on the line. Lets reverse this. How many WR's have any snaps on the line. What % will Kincaid be on the line for Buffalo if Knox is not in that specific play or out for the game. If that comes out to be any % over say 10% Then he is still a big bodied TE that plays WR.

 

Only time and stats will tell

 

If he lines up at the line for only 10% of his snaps, he would have a major case to be classified as a WR.  Just like the LBs who rush 80% of the time.  They usually win their case to be classified as a DE.  

 

What typically happens in those cases is the team and player agree to a number somewhere in the middle.

[NewEra]

42 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

If he lines up at the line for only 10% of his snaps, he would have a major case to be classified as a WR.  Just like the LBs who rush 80% of the time.  They usually win their case to be classified as a DE.  

 

What typically happens in those cases is the team and player agree to a number somewhere in the middle.

I agree.  
 

i also think he’ll play more than 10% of his snaps in line

[Shaw66]

I watch the video and I see a lot of Mike Evans.  Open when he's covered.  A tough-minded pass catcher.  

[wppete]

36 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I watch the video and I see a lot of Mike Evans.  Open when he's covered.  A tough-minded pass catcher.  

I like that comparison. I can see it.