Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[FireChans]

58 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

So would you feel better if the score was 40 - 28?

It wasn’t.

[CNYfan]

Leslie did a great job, for the most part.  He is by all reports, a great human.  I wish him all the best that life can bring and am thankful for the job he did here.  

Sometimes things become stale, and you have to change up the personnel and stir up the concepts to inject some spark.  

Edited February 28, 2023 by CNYfan
punctuation

[The Frankish Reich]

Hmm, just as the Broncos passed on Rex Ryan. 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, CNYfan said:

Leslie did a great job, for the most part.  He is by all reports, a great human.  I wish him all the best that life can bring and am thankful for the job he did here.  

Sometimes things become stale, and you have to change up the personnel and stir up the concepts to inject some spark.  

Yep.  And anyone who believes this was anything other than McBeane doing Frazier a favor holding onto him until all the head coaching jobs were filled… I gotta bridge to sell you.  McDermott knows this year is it.  Maybe he’ll give Holcomb or the young guy Babich the DC title, but McDermott will be way more hands on.  Beane made that clear in his presser.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Hallelujah

 

[starrymessenger]

JMO and I could be wrong but it looks to me as though Frazier's sabbatical was a mutually agreed separation orchestrated with the respect due a senior member of the coaching confraternity and someone everybody seems to like personally. I sorta think Frazier would be signing a new contract with the Bills if we had won the Super Bowl. I also get the feeling that the Bills are sensitive to the fan bases' displeasure with the disappointing performance of the D, especially in the playoffs (but actually not limited to the playoffs). When the prevailing opinion of many observers is that changes are necessary how would signing Frazier to a new contract look - it would be understood as sending the message that nothing was changing, even if that was not necessarily the intention. I don't think that's the message the Bills want to be sending. It would reinforce the suspicion that this coaching staff was basically just living off the fat of the land without a plan or the will to make difficult decisions needed to improve on the results. 
If that's right, then I take this to be an acknowledgment that a change of direction is necessary. IMO they now need to follow through. Along with many others I feel that the emphasis needs to be on developing the offence. With FA and the draft we will be getting an early heads up on what their plans may actually be. 
Of course if a year from now we are in the same place with no steps taken to change course then these guys need to go away. All of them. That's how it works, and should work, in this business.

As to whether there is now an opportunity to turn things around I believe that there is. The Bills are a good team. You just cannot lose 1 1/2 pro bowl safeties, an all pro corner and a HoF pass rusher and not have it hurt big time. I don't really have a problem with the defensive scheme as such, if that's what they want to run. Its more the in-game alignments and playcalls that sometimes appear to be problematic, and clearly there are a few personnel issues that need to be resolved/improved. This administration has in fact bought itself a reprieve. It would be well advised to make good use of it.

Edited February 28, 2023 by starrymessenger

[uticaclub]

Frazier will be McDermott’s DC in 2024, but it won't be in Buffalo. And for those saying it took Reid 20 years to win, Josh Allen doesn’t have 20 years to play. 

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Yep.  And anyone who believes this was anything other than McBeane doing Frazier a favor holding onto him until all the head coaching jobs were filled… I gotta bridge to sell you.  McDermott knows this year is it.  Maybe he’ll give Holcomb or the young guy Babich the DC title, but McDermott will be way more hands on.  Beane made that clear in his presser.  

As he should be. This is a make or break year for McD. He oughta leave nothing on the table. He’s viewed as a defensive guru slash aficionado, well let’s see it. Whomever we hire as DC should be our DC just in title. Let’s see what you got Coach McD.

[Kiva]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

Welcome top TBD: Toxic Bills Drive

#newsflash# The entire world is toxic. 

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, Jerome007 said:

McD remains. And for all the deserved Frazier criticism, this defense does NOT need an entirely new defense! It needs some additional wrinkles and better game time decisions. But the "bend but don't break" worked well, very well, 95% of the time. That 5% is just calling more aggressive or adapted plays at the right time.

This D has failed at every big moment. It's great against lesser teams but cannot get off the field against good QBs. Miami seemingly scored at will and Cincinnati took their foot off the gas when they saw we just quit.  The D game has passed McD by and he needs to get new blood and new schemes if we area to make it to the top of the mountain. This coaching staff is just not good enough. If McD calls the D with another figurehead DC we'll be having the same conversation in 2024 with another year of Josh's prime out the window.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Airseven said:

 

If McDermott, in effect, functions as DC or they promote a lesser assistant into an acting gig, then it would leave the door cracked for Frazier to return. It would be quite the forced marriage at that point though.

Which is exactly why I don’t think it will ever happen and basically the end of the Frazier era.  Which is all good news to me

[Ethan in Cleveland]

McD just scapegoated another. Last year it was the special teams guy and this year it is Frazier. 

 

I want McD calling the defense in 2023. Posted that a while back. I want no excuses of who to blame when this fraud defense gets shredded in the playoffs again. 

 

Our only hope is Allen gets healthy, Beane takes over full control of the draft and rebuilds the oline and Dorsey gets better. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Your post would appear to shield McDermott from any blame. I respect your opinion but cannot understand how or why you would do so.

Well, first, I think a lot of the whining that's gone on around here smacks of "blame," and I don't think blame as anything to do with it.  Responsibility, yes.  Blame, no. 

 

But beyond that, I've written about McDermott before.  I doubt there are any harsher critics of McDermott's coaching than McDermott.  He has one objective, and that's to win.   And his system is that everyone, including McDermott is critiqued, and everyone including McDermott has a plan for how they are going to do things better.  Part of what the organization does is examine what's working in the NFL and what isn't, part of everyone's workplan, including McDermott's plan, is to evaluate other teams and coaches and that way, and to evaluate their own team.  So, yes, I'm sure McDermott is taking responsibility for where the team has been, and he's responding.

 

If by blame you mean the things that, if done differently, the team would have a Super Bowl by now?   Are you saying he should be fired because his team didn't do those things?   There are a few teams every season of whom it could be said that if they'd done this or that, then they might have won a Lombardi.   Winning it all is difficult, to say the least.   It's a remarkable achievement by 100 or more people coming together with intense commitment to excel at something that is just short of being war.   It's very hard to put together that kind of accomplishment.  

 

Someone will say, "yes, but if the DBs didn't play so soft, or if Frazier hadn't gone prevent against the Chiefs," or whatever, but really?  They had a team of players and coaches that achieved a great deal of success playing a particular style of football, and there's nothing to say that they would have greater success throughout the season playing a different style.   The coaches all say you have to go with what got you there.  You're there because "what got you there" has been shown to be very successful.  That's why you're there.  So, I don't see that blame has much to do with it.  

 

Bills haven't gotten it done.  Period.  But the people the Bills have are committed to getting it done, and by that they mean they're committed to change.   This move with Frazier is part of the change.  It means McDermott is doing his job.  

[dave mcbride]

16 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

This D has failed at every big moment. It's great against lesser teams but cannot get off the field against good QBs. Miami seemingly scored at will and Cincinnati took their foot off the gas when they saw we just quit.  The D game has passed McD by and he needs to get new blood and new schemes if we area to make it to the top of the mountain. This coaching staff is just not good enough. If McD calls the D with another figurehead DC we'll be having the same conversation in 2024 with another year of Josh's prime out the window.

Miami's offense was responsible for 15 points. The other 16 were gifted by the Bills' offense and STs. The team passer rating for Miami was 41.8 on 18-45 passing. They averaged 3.3 yards per play, turned it over twice, had a yards-per-rush average of 2.1 yards, and put up a measly 231 yards. Miami scored 31 points because Allen got really sloppy and turned it over three times and because the STs had a botched kickoff and gave up a big punt return.  Holding a playoff team to 15 points and very little yardage is good, not bad. In fact, the Bills' D saved the team; they intercepted the ball twice in Miami territory and both INTs led to Bills TDs. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Green Lightning]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Miami's offense was responsible for 15 points. The other 16 were gifted by the Bills' offense and STs. The team passer rating for Miami was 41.8 on 18-45 passing. They averaged 3.3 yards per play, turned it over twice, and put up a measly 31 yards. Miami scored 31 points because Allen got really sloppy and turned it over three times and because the STs had a botched kickoff and gave up a big punt return.  Holding a playoff team to 15 points and very little yardage is good, not bad. In fact, the Bills' D saved the team; they intercepted the ball twice in Miami territory and both INTs led to Bills TDs. 

Hey, if you're happy with this D, good for you. It's not good enough and not coached well enough to get us over the top in my opinion. If you feel otherwise, then we disagree. I'm happy for the change. 

[Shaw66]

25 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Yep.  And anyone who believes this was anything other than McBeane doing Frazier a favor holding onto him until all the head coaching jobs were filled… I gotta bridge to sell you.  McDermott knows this year is it.  Maybe he’ll give Holcomb or the young guy Babich the DC title, but McDermott will be way more hands on.  Beane made that clear in his presser.  

Interesting.  I haven't read the thread or any reports or heard the presser, but all of this sounds about right.   I already predicted Frazier will be back in 24 as some kind of special assistant.   The Bills are treating him right.  For all we know, McDermott knew Frazier was gone on locker cleanout day.  And McDermott will, as you say, be more hands on.   I can't see it being any other way.  

 

Don't know if anyone has talked about the offense here, but it's easy to see how difficult 2023 will be for McDermott when you also factor in what he has to do improve Dorsey's game.   McDermott will have to be hands-on there, too.  

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Green Lightning said:

Hey, if you're happy with this D, good for you. It's not good enough and not coached well enough to get us over the top in my opinion. If you feel otherwise, then we disagree. I'm happy for the change. 

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was just pointing out a factual error. The Bills D played well versus Miami. They gave up some plays, but all defenses do. They got obliterated vs. Cincy. They've been up and down in the playoffs overall in this regime -- great against Jax (who scored 45 on Pitt the following week), good against Houston, bad against Indy, great against Baltimore, bad against KC, great against NE, bad against KC (again), good against Miami, and bad against Cincy. Not surprisingly, they struggled the most vs. the best offenses. Not many can stop KC assuming the o-line isn't in a shambles (which it was in the SB vs TB; both OTs got hurt in the afc championship game vs the Bills).

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Miami's offense was responsible for 15 points. The other 16 were gifted by the Bills' offense and STs. The team passer rating for Miami was 41.8 on 18-45 passing. They averaged 3.3 yards per play, turned it over twice, had a yards-per-rush average of 2.1 yards, and put up a measly 231 yards. Miami scored 31 points because Allen got really sloppy and turned it over three times and because the STs had a botched kickoff and gave up a big punt return.  Holding a playoff team to 15 points and very little yardage is good, not bad. In fact, the Bills' D saved the team; they intercepted the ball twice in Miami territory and both INTs led to Bills TDs. 

 

Wonder if that game would have had a different ending if Tua had been healthy enough to play. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Wonder if that game would have had a different ending if Tua had been healthy enough to play. 

Probably. Skyler Thompson sucks. But then again with a healthy Tua, Miami's offense is legit good. They have the best receiver pairing in the NFL. Both of those guys are pretty much uncoverable. And McDaniel is a good offensive coach.

[GETTOTHE50]

if this was the bills org doing, then I don't like it.

 

yes some of the calls are frustrating, and yes some of the 3rd and long conversions are infuriating, but that has to do with mcdermott just as much as it does with Frazier. 

 

The obvious that has been mentioned: Micah & Von were out. Injuries killed the defense, JP was dealing with crap. DJ was out for a little bit. Tre only played the last 6 weeks and was clearly still adjusting. 

 

Plus, Frazier isn't the one that couldn't develop a run game. He isn't the one that didn't acquire a talented oline. He didn't drop passes like Gabe.

 

Frazier feels like the scape goat and I don't like it. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by GETTOTHE50

[Green Lightning]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I didn't say anything of the sort. I was just pointing out a factual error. The Bills D played well versus Miami. They gave up some plays, but all defenses do. They got obliterated vs. Cincy. They've been up and down in the playoffs overall in this regime -- great against Jax (who scored 45 on Pitt the following week), good against Houston, bad against Indy, great against Baltimore, bad against KC, great against NE, bad against KC (again), good against Miami, and bad against Cincy. Not surprisingly, they struggled the most vs. the best offenses. Not many can stop KC assuming the o-line isn't in a shambles (which it was in the SB vs TB; both tOTs got hurt in the afc championship game vs the Bills).

They played against a 4th string QB. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Green Lightning said:

They played against a 4th string QB. 

This is changing the subject. You said they scored at will; they did not.

[starrymessenger]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Interesting.  I haven't read the thread or any reports or heard the presser, but all of this sounds about right.   I already predicted Frazier will be back in 24 as some kind of special assistant.   The Bills are treating him right.  For all we know, McDermott knew Frazier was gone on locker cleanout day.  And McDermott will, as you say, be more hands on.   I can't see it being any other way.  

 

Don't know if anyone has talked about the offense here, but it's easy to see how difficult 2023 will be for McDermott when you also factor in what he has to do improve Dorsey's game.   McDermott will have to be hands-on there, too.  

As a defensive specialist do you really think McD has the knowledge to contribute anything to the O? And what is it exactly that McD needs to do to improve Dorsey's game?

[GaryPinC]

At the end of the day, all I know is I don't want our playoff opponents saying this about us:

 

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2022/12/tyler-boyd-says-bills-defense-is-basic-secondary-not-best-bengals-have-seen.html

 

“It’s kind of basic. They don’t do too much disguising - it’s kind of straightforward, they don’t do all the trickery things that we’ve seen a lot from defenses,” he told Cincinnati reporters in front of his locker. 

 

The article goes on to mention back in 2019 Belichick said the tough thing about playing our defense was how well Poyer and Hyde disguised their coverage responsibilities.  Not this year.

 

It's just not enough when we compete at the highest levels.  The Frazier change, and a fresh perspective, was needed.  We've got to have a more dynamic and creative defense, regardless of base schemes.

[97bills]

2 hours ago, BigAl2526 said:

This presents a bit of a dilemma for the Bills.  They have to decide how much they want Frazier after his "sabbatical."  The also need to decide what the likelihood is of him deciding he wants to return after a year off.  At 65 (in a year) he might decide he's had enough of the grind of coaching.  As an articulate and somewhat charismatic personality, he could probably find a home in the media that was a lot less stressful and pays better.  The Bills have to make that assessment because it might be difficult to maintain quality defensive coordination with temporary measures.  If you promote from within, are you getting the best possible option?  If McDermott takes on the role of coordinator for a year, will his other duties suffer?  Is it even possible to hire a quality guy from the outside who would be willing to come in for a year with the term "interim" attached to his title?  If you settle for a temporary solution to organize and coordinate your defense, is the defense going to suffer?

All good questions.. 

[FLFan]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Miami's offense was responsible for 15 points. The other 16 were gifted by the Bills' offense and STs. The team passer rating for Miami was 41.8 on 18-45 passing. They averaged 3.3 yards per play, turned it over twice, had a yards-per-rush average of 2.1 yards, and put up a measly 231 yards. Miami scored 31 points because Allen got really sloppy and turned it over three times and because the STs had a botched kickoff and gave up a big punt return.  Holding a playoff team to 15 points and very little yardage is good, not bad. In fact, the Bills' D saved the team; they intercepted the ball twice in Miami territory and both INTs led to Bills TDs. 

There you go confusing the preferred narrative with those pesky facts.  Shame on you.  

[SoTier]

8 hours ago, iccrewman112 said:

Hope he is healthy.

 

My first thought when I heard the news was that either Frazier or someone in his family is facing some kind of health issue.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

As a defensive specialist do you really think McD has the knowledge to contribute anything to the O? And what is it exactly that McD needs to do to improve Dorsey's game?

First, let me say I loved your earlier post in this thread.  Didn't agree with it all, but there was a lot of interesting stuff to think about. 

 

I am dead certain that he has the knowledge to contribute.   I'll get to that.   What McD needs to do for Dorsey is to be sure that all scouting people have put together information about what is succeeding in the league, and what it is that the Bills can learn from that.   Also stuff about what the offense did well and poorly, and what needs to be improved.   All of that is being distilled into a workplan for Dorsey, a workplan that is created largely by McDermott and Dorsey themselves.   And because I think that Dorsey has plenty of things he can improve on, that workplan is going to be aggressive - it's going to expect Dorsey to get better at a lot.  McDermott will have to oversee Dorsey closely, for most of next season, to be sure Dorsey stays on track.

 

As McDermott knowing anything.   Well, first you only can be a good defensive coach if you understand what offenses are doing.   If you're a successful defensive coach, it means you're successful at understanding what works and doesn't work on offense.   So, there's that.   And I think Belichick is the perfect example.  Defensive coach pretty much his entire career, but he was all over the Patriots' offense, its direction.  Heck, he must have understood something about offense when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez.   Who does that except someone who could see how that offense would work.   

 

Finally, McDermott is a student.   If there's something he needs to know, he studies.  Don't think he hasn't been studying offense.  

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

First, let me say I loved your earlier post in this thread.  Didn't agree with it all, but there was a lot of interesting stuff to think about. 

 

I am dead certain that he has the knowledge to contribute.   I'll get to that.   What McD needs to do for Dorsey is to be sure that all scouting people have put together information about what is succeeding in the league, and what it is that the Bills can learn from that.   Also stuff about what the offense did well and poorly, and what needs to be improved.   All of that is being distilled into a workplan for Dorsey, a workplan that is created largely by McDermott and Dorsey themselves.   And because I think that Dorsey has plenty of things he can improve on, that workplan is going to be aggressive - it's going to expect Dorsey to get better at a lot.  McDermott will have to oversee Dorsey closely, for most of next season, to be sure Dorsey stays on track.

 

As McDermott knowing anything.   Well, first you only can be a good defensive coach if you understand what offenses are doing.   If you're a successful defensive coach, it means you're successful at understanding what works and doesn't work on offense.   So, there's that.   And I think Belichick is the perfect example.  Defensive coach pretty much his entire career, but he was all over the Patriots' offense, its direction.  Heck, he must have understood something about offense when he drafted Gronk and Aaron Hernandez.   Who does that except someone who could see how that offense would work.   

 

Finally, McDermott is a student.   If there's something he needs to know, he studies.  Don't think he hasn't been studying offense.  

I hope he's been studying offense enough to spend whatever free agent coin they free up and some early draft picks on that side of the ball. Start with the oline.

[Meatloaf63]

8 hours ago, appoo said:

The defense performed poorly in 2 games across 3 years of playoffs where the Bills have played in 7 games 

2? Poorly twice against KC, Miami, Cincinnati, not  that great against the colts either but Reich’s mistakes saved us… 

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

It wasn’t.

And the Bills got their tails kicked on both sides of the ball all the same.

 

The score wasn't even an accurate reflection of how badly they got beat.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Shaw66]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I hope he's been studying offense enough to spend whatever free agent coin they free up and some early draft picks on that side of the ball. Start with the oline.

In fact, if he could fix the oline, I think the rest would be easy.   I'm not one who thinks the Bills should keep Diggs and throw out the rest.  The Bills receivers should have been a lot better last season, and I lay that at Dorsey's feet.   Fix Dorsey, straighten out the oline, and he's good. 

[ChasBB]

8 hours ago, 97bills said:

Because I think it will be more the same.. I want a new scheme , but that’s probably not going to happen.. I just want a more aggressive approach , I’m willing to sacrifice a big play to try and force the Qb into a mistake. I think you can play that kind of defense , the way our offense can score. 

Agree.  I have no problem generally trying to rush with only 4, but blitzes can be very effective scattered in here and there.  Not saying I want to see the team blitz all the time.  Just saying let's mix things up a bit at times and situations.

[par73]

Time for a fresh look and new perspective. Not sure if that happens , though, if McDermott just assumes the duties. Hope there is an outside hire.

[Meatloaf63]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

The defense was excellent in the Ravens game. It was good in the Dolphins and Pats games. It was bad in the Bengals game, and horrific against two chiefs teams. The first chiefs loss had a lot to do with the DL issues that caused our defense to be gashed all year, they weren't a good unit that season. And a lot of players had deer in headlight moments that game. I don't really pin that one on coaching, that was a team learning what that big moment is like. 

 

But I'm happy to move on as well, I just think Bills fans take things far too extreme when they like or don't like something 

 

The histrionics on this board this offseason have been as unbearable as they are hyperbolic

Good in the Miami game? They had a third string scrub QB, missing top running back and a few offensive linemen. They had a chance to win. If Tua was playing we lose that game.

[Meatloaf63]

46 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This is changing the subject. You said they scored at will; they did not.

They moved the ball at will at times, we were only saved by the untimely interceptions. The Jets pretty much stuffed him the week before. 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

They moved the ball at will at times, we were only saved by the untimely interceptions. The Jets pretty much stuffed him the week before. 

Miami was 4-13 against the Jets on third down.

 

They were 4-16 against the Bills.

 

Miami had 302 yards against the Jets.

 

They had 231 yard against the Bills.

 

Miami had 17 first downs against the Jets.

 

They had 16 against the Bills.

 

Are you wrong professionally?  Do you have a card?

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

They moved the ball at will at times, we were only saved by the untimely interceptions. The Jets pretty much stuffed him the week before. 

Let’s also not forget the wide open bomb that Waddle dropped on their opening series, which would’ve changed the complexion of the game.  

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Good in the Miami game? They had a third string scrub QB, missing top running back and a few offensive linemen. They had a chance to win. If Tua was playing we lose that game.

The defense played very well. The 3 turnovers by the offense (one for a defensive TD), big PR and kickoff out of bounds gave Miami fantastic opportunities. 
 

Miami had 231 total yards, 16 first downs and only converted 25% of their 3rd downs… that doesn’t equal 31 points 😂

 

Their scoring drives started on…

 

MIA 40 (FG) Kick of OOB

BUF 48 (FG) INT returned 49 YDS

BUF 27 (FG) Punt returned 50 YDS

BUF 18 (TD) INT returned 29 YDS

BUF 30 (TD) Fumble Returned

MIA 25 (TD) 

 

But yeah… defense sucked. 

[Meatloaf63]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Miami was 4-13 against the Jets on third down.

 

They were 4-16 against the Bills.

 

Miami had 302 yards against the Jets.

 

They had 231 yard against the Bills.

 

Miami had 17 first downs against the Jets.

 

They had 16 against the Bills.

 

Are you wrong professionally?  Do you have a card?

Did you watch the game? Did you see the wide open drops their receivers had? How may points did they put up against the jets? If you felt comfortable at any point that we were in control and were absolutely positive we were going to win you are nothing but a liar. But keep up the personal attacks cause they make you appear so smart👍