HappyDays Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, harmonkillebrew said: Edmund's isn't going anywhere. You could hear it in Beane's presser. They love the kid and he's grown tremendously and is still young Probably true, but it's also possible they want to pump up his value to maximize the comp pick they get if he signs elsewhere. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcam2012 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: I asked because they could do a tag and trade in case that was what you were talking about. Tagging him seems risky. You seem to have more knowledge in this area. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Probably true, but it's also possible they want to pump up his value to maximize the comp pick they get if he signs elsewhere. As a UFA, I don't think the Bills would get any comp for him, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 "considering Maine is from Northern Virginia he seemed believable" he is from Danville VA which is not anywhere near Northern VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, newcam2012 said: Tagging him seems risky. You seem to have more knowledge in this area. What do you think? It's an option, but an expensive one and risky as you said. They would have to find a suitor who wants him first, then the other team would probably try to low ball us on any draft picks included in the deal since they know our cap situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Billz4ever said: As a UFA, I don't think the Bills would get any comp for him, correct? He meant NFL compensation when the league hands out picks for lost UFAs vs gained UFAs, you know when the Pats and Ravens gets loads of extra 3rd Round picks every year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billz4ever Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just now, The Jokeman said: He meant NFL compensation when the league hands out picks for lost UFAs vs gained UFAs, you know when the Pats and Ravens gets loads of extra 3rd Round picks every year. Ah, gotcha. Not sure why I was thinking UFA vs restricted FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 that's not a crazy deal if it's a 7 year contract Edmunds is getting paid by someone. If we let him go then there's no chance we'll see any major investment in the offense in the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 50 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I'm not sure I follow what you mean there, considering we arent in the old Cash to Cap days. His first year is a Cap Hit of $9M. That is all that needs to be accounted for on the cap. Numbers laid out below. It has to do with the comment about getting out after three seasons and contract structure. Some contracts ramp up salaries and cash payouts over the course of the deal. Others give more cash up front or pay it out more evenly. The Roquon deal is very even and has an AAV of $20M. The three year out will be $60M. That’s a lot less palatable than a backloaded deal that ramps up where a three year payout could be closer to $50M. Pretty much every 5 or 6 year deal will have relatively low cap hits the first two years, but everything paid (and guaranteed) still has to hit the cap eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: It has to do with the comment about getting out after three seasons and contract structure. Some contracts ramp up salaries and cash payouts over the course of the deal. Others give more cash up front or pay it out more evenly. The Roquon deal is very even and has an AAV of $20M. The three year out will be $60M. That’s a lot less palatable than a backloaded deal that ramps up where a three year payout could be closer to $50M. Pretty much every 5 or 6 year deal will have relatively low cap hits the first two years, but everything paid (and guaranteed) still has to hit the cap eventually. Did you look at the detail of the Roquan deal I provided? I wouldnt say starting at $9M and $13M, and then ramping up to $27.5M at the back end is "even". Nor am I understanding what you mean by "the 3 year out will be $60M"? It would be $60M total paid over 4 years for an average of $15M/yr hit, and that last $15M hitting in year 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: that's not a crazy deal if it's a 7 year contract Edmunds is getting paid by someone. If we let him go then there's no chance we'll see any major investment in the offense in the draft. But! We have the great, Terrell Bernard just waiting in the wings!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Been saying Maine should be priority 1 in FA. Hope this is true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Why do you assume no extension by now is a data point that has any finality to it at all? Because Beane never waits when he definitely wants someone back. White, Allen, Hyde, Dawkins - they all signed their 2nd contracts well before hitting free agency. Whereas Milano they were prepared to let walk if it came to that but he accepted a hometown discount to stay here so we got him signed at the last minute before free agency. It seems like that's the direction they're going with Edmunds. They'll bring him back for the right price but he isn't a priority. If he gets overpaid elsewhere they're willing to live with that. I'm actually hoping that's what happens and then we can invest in the offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 25 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Did you look at the detail of the Roquan deal I provided? I wouldnt say starting at $9M and $13M, and then ramping up to $27.5M at the back end is "even". Nor am I understanding what you mean by "the 3 year out will be $60M"? It would be $60M total paid over 4 years for an average of $15M/yr hit, and that last $15M hitting in year 4. No. Look at the details of the Roquon contract. He has guarantees for the first $60M, which is paid over the first three seasons. $15M of the $60M cap hit is delayed, but it is still on the books. If they part ways with him after the first three seasons that additional $15M hits the cap. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: No. Look at the details of the Roquon contract. He has guarantees for the first $60M, which is paid over the first three seasons. $15M of the $60M cap hit is delayed, but it is still on the books. If they part ways with him after the first three seasons that additional $15M hits the cap. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/roquan-smith-25103/ That's Pegula's Cash that only matters to Terry. Not the Cap Hit number that affects what Beane can spend. I don't care about Pegula's cash. The Cap Hit and Dead Cap numbers are the only ones that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 39 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said: But! We have the great, Terrell Bernard just waiting in the wings!! with a new coach that excels at coaching LBs....hmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 37 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said: But! We have the great, Terrell Bernard just waiting in the wings!! Alright i mean... he was a rookie. And he's behind an all-pro in the depth chart. Still a strange pick when you look at it though - unless they think he can play in edmunds spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 personally, i think we have to let him walk to get some WR and OL help, but if we do sign him i hope he takes another step and stays hall of fame level till he retires a bill a long time from now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) Tremaine would be 31 after a 7 year contract. THIRTY ONE If 2022 was his floor, you sign him long term. He hasn’t peaked yet. Edited February 9, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 41 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Because Beane never waits when he definitely wants someone back. White, Allen, Hyde, Dawkins - they all signed their 2nd contracts well before hitting free agency. Whereas Milano they were prepared to let walk if it came to that but he accepted a hometown discount to stay here so we got him signed at the last minute before free agency. It seems like that's the direction they're going with Edmunds. They'll bring him back for the right price but he isn't a priority. If he gets overpaid elsewhere they're willing to live with that. I'm actually hoping that's what happens and then we can invest in the offense. We’re there any other players on the team drafted in the same year that might have taken precedence over Edmunds and altered the equation a bit? Why did you seem so definitive in your first post only to use phrases like “seems like” now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I what to talk about where my enthusiasm is regarding Tremaine Edmunds possible contract, but I don't feel this is the correct thread, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, KzooMike said: I what to talk about where my enthusiasm is regarding Tremaine Edmunds possible contract, but I don't feel this is the correct thread, We need an underground thread for Tremaine Edmunds fans. We can post it in another sub-forum and name it something misleading. Don’t mind me, I’ll just be heading over to the “Favorite Gluten-Free Bread” thread on the Anything But forum.. Edited February 9, 2023 by TheyCallMeAndy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said: Tremaine would be 31 after a 7 year contract. THIRTY ONE If 2022 was his floor, you sign him long term. He hasn’t peaked yet. So Edmunds came into the NFL early, it doesn't make up for the fact he is slow to diagnose plays or often doesn't fill the right hole or seems to have tacklers bounce off him. He just flat out isn't good enough as a MLB, should we over pay him and hope he gets to be good as Roquan Smith or find someone cheaper that can offer more value? I say go with the latter. Edited February 9, 2023 by The Jokeman 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: So Edmunds came into the early, it doesn't make up for the fact he is slow to diagnose plays or often doesn't fill the right hole or seems to have tacklers bounce off him. He just flat out isn't good enough as a MLB, should we over pay him and hope he gets to be good as Roquan Smith or find someone cheaper that can offer more value? I say go with the latter. He isn’t perfect, but he does more right than wrong. He was very good this year. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 120/6 would be Roquan money. I think that is too much. 120/7 comes in around $17m AAV. If that is well structured and moderate on guaranteed money I could get myself there. 7 years with the first 4 years being in the neighborhood of $15M averaged per year with year 5 being the transition year is OK with me. Similar to Josh's contract it's fair for both sides and gives Beane the most flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 23 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: He just flat out isn't good enough as a MLB, should we over pay him and hope he gets to be good as Roquan Smith or find someone cheaper that can offer more value? I say go with the latter. Yep!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: That's Pegula's Cash that only matters to Terry. Not the Cap Hit number that affects what Beane can spend. I don't care about Pegula's cash. The Cap Hit and Dead Cap numbers are the only ones that matter. Cash spent = Cap hit (sooner or later) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperCam Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 When will people learn that the dollar amount isn’t important in these contracts? It’s only there to make the agent feel important. Here is what is important: - Guaranteed Money - Signing Bonus and dead cap - Ability to restructure You could sign a $120 million dollar contract that basically gives the team a free out after 3 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 53 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: Cash spent = Cap hit (sooner or later) Ehh, well that's fine then. For the record, I wasnt trying to be overly argumentative with you. I was genuinely curious if there was a part of the Cap stuff I wasnt understanding correctly since it's all smoke and mirrors and rainbows and magic. I was a huge Edmunds detractor through last offseason, but if we could get him back on a long term deal structured like Smith's, then I'm all for it. Beane needs to flip his usual script (Draft Defense/FA Offense), and re-sign Edmunds and spend the draft on OL and WR. Go Bills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: 120/6 would be Roquan money. I think that is too much. 120/7 comes in around $17m AAV. If that is well structured and moderate on guaranteed money I could get myself there. Yes on a 7 year deal, with maybe around $60m of that guaranteed, that would work and would be a good deal for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I want Edmunds back in a bad way. I want a legit 2/1A wide receiver and improvements on the o-line even more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Beast said: I want Edmunds back in a bad way. I want a legit 2/1A wide receiver and improvements on the o-line even more. So sign Edmunds and go OL/WR/OL or WR/OL/OL in the draft 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: So sign Edmunds and go OL/WR/OL or WR/OL/OL in the draft Yes lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 OMG why is this unfounded drivel tolerated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said: OMG why is this unfounded drivel tolerated? Because in terms of drivel, this is nowhere near rock bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Because in terms of drivel, this is nowhere near rock bottom. For real, this is just week 3 of the offseason. Wait until June... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 If we resign Edmunds I'll root for him to succeed, of course, but I won't love the financials at $120 million over seven years. Here's why: Our cap situation is NOT a one-year 2023 challenge. With Josh's contract EVERY year will make it challenging to pay for a good O-line, offensive weapons, an effective D-line and corners needed in a passing league. I don't see an MLB as being a cornerstone or essential part of an effective defense in today's passing league. Does it help? Sure. But it's not essential. So paying Edmunds $17 million a year (120/7) means that money can't go elsewhere to another essential piece. Sure the cap will rise each year, but young guys in essential positions will need to be extended, and you can bet that over time certain players will want to renegotiate their deals. $17 million a year for Edmunds or $7 to $10 million for another MLB and $7 to $10 million EXTRA for the O-line. I'll go with the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 This man is about to be very very rich based mostly on potential. Either we are paying him or another team will. I think he is secretly Beane's #1 priority this off-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 You're crazy of you DON'T think they're signing Edmunds long term. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.