If Frazier returns, how much will your enthusism die?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

 I put the Houston game on the D as well.  A 16-0 lead in the 3rd quarter simply cannot be surrendered.  IMO, the defense was bad in 6/9 playoff games.

Yeah but the players literally were the reason for the comeback. Missed opportunities. That’s was definitely on the players. There were some good calls and the players couldn’t sack Watson.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[The Red King]

The Bengals were torching us before that game was called off.  And Frazier changed nothing for the playoff game.  That's the issue.  He makes one plan for a game come hell or high water.  He doesn't adapt.  If a team figures him out, he's dead.  We seem like we're in a permanent prevent D.  Even on 3rd or 4th and short we play twice as far off the receiver as they need for the 1st.  No game awareness.  As others noted, elite QBs shred us.

 

And I do laugh when someone says they'll save all the negative threads for use next season.  Hey, anyone save last season's?  That way you can rub it in our faces...oh wait, those threads were right, weren't they?

 

Insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting a different outcome.  That applies both game to game and season to season.

[MJS]

What do you mean return? He never left. He is the DC.

[The Red King]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

What do you mean return? He never left. He is the DC.

 

His contract expired at the end of this season.

[Fetou]

My enthusiasm is hampered by the salary cap more than the coaching, although they make an unpleasant couple

[ChiGoose]

The Bills have consistently had one of the best defenses in the league during Frazier’s tenure. And there is no guarantee that any replacement would be better than him. 
 

He’s not above reproach, but he’s clearly one of the better DCs in the game.

[larrym]

A lot.  I don't know how much input McD has into the defensive game plan but it sucks.  It only works if you can apply pressure and stop the run i guess.  But they don't get pressure.  The get gashed for big runs every other game.  It starts with the line on both side and they both simply suck compared to say the niners, eagles, chiefs, bengals etc etc.  I don't care about the stupid grading system i can see whats happening on the field.  They can't run because they can't block.  Josh runs... because they can't block.  We can't apply meaningful pressure so they keep picking 3rd down after third down.  This is a team with some serious flaws.  They aren't on josh's rookie contract and they pick at the back so they are screwed in that way.  This window is slammed shut and they seriously need a mini rebuild/overhaul.  This isn't about 13 seconds or getting mauled by the bengals.  Those are just symptoms of a much bigger problem that manifests itself at the worst times.  I hope McD steps back and looks at both sides and just give it the eye test.  They don't look good.

[entropyrules]

10 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

About 45%

Not far off from mine..I ran my enthusiasm algorithm and got 44.25%.  My Sabres one, though, is at 89.62%

[Figster]

My enthusiasm will not change much because its has more to do with Josh Allen and the Bills O for me. McD's D will be good with or without Frazier IMO. My preference is we do make a change at DC. I'm not losing much sleep over it If we don't. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

10 hours ago, FireChans said:

My favorite meme in Bills land is thinking OC/DC are the biggest problems, no matter who the players are.

 

Did we suck in 2012 because Chan was the HC/OC or was it because we had crappy QB's?

 

Did our defense suck in 2012 because of Dave Wannstedt at DC or was it because we had crappy players?

 

If you think a new DC = 2000 Ravens with this defense, or Sean Payton = 2013 Broncos with this offense, you aren't paying attention to the league.

 

Most teams have fine coordinators. There are a few teams with horrific coordinators but those teams, again, usually aren't top 5 as units in the regular season.  They also are usually saddled with crap players.

 

IMO, Dorsey and Frazier both have their issues. Dorsey can't find an identity, falls in love with the big play etc etc. Frazier gets a little conservative at times (although, to be fair, it's hard to be aggressive with backup CB's who need backup S help all the time).

 

There is no "hire this coordinator and AJE will be good."  That coordinator does not exist.  There is also no "hire this coordinator and Roger Saffold will stop being the biggest tub of goo playing LG since Vlad Ducasse."

I completely disagree no one is saying they need to be the 2000 Ravens or the offense needs to be the 99 Rams. But coaches do need to know how to adjust use there players to there strength and absolutely know what kind of talent they have on there team. Frazier wants his players to just play to his scheme instead of finding something that fits into there talents that’s a huge problem he also never uses stunts or twists or lines up his DE in wide formations it’s pretty much the same ole same ole every time. Teams are smart and they will adjust to what u do. The Bengals knew exactly where to go with the football Burrow attacked Frazier simple scheme hitting his weapons in the weak spots of the zone.  U can’t tell me there’s no adjustments for that? 
 

Dorsey this guy is amazing he’s amazing because his run game wasn’t synced with the passing game and that’s amazingly stupid and deserves to be fired off that premise alone. But there’s more Dorsey also showed no ability to adjust at the halftime it always seemed like the offense was stuck in mud in the 2nd halves of games nothing came easy and Allen had to resort to hero ball to get us out of trouble. 
 

Any competent organization would have fired both there coordinators for these reasons . But McD is choosing to double down on his guys..

[Airseven]

My enthusiasm died at 13 seconds. Have to draw the line somewhere with this franchise.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I completely disagree no one is saying they need to be the 2000 Ravens or the offense needs to be the 99 Rams. But coaches do need to know how to adjust use there players to there strength and absolutely know what kind of talent they have on there team. Frazier wants his players to just play to his scheme instead of finding something that fits into there talents that’s a huge problem he also never uses stunts or twists or lines up his DE in wide formations it’s pretty much the same ole same ole every time. Teams are smart and they will adjust to what u do. The Bengals knew exactly where to go with the football Burrow attacked Frazier simple scheme hitting his weapons in the weak spots of the zone.  U can’t tell me there’s no adjustments for that? 
 

Dorsey this guy is amazing he’s amazing because his run game wasn’t synced with the passing game and that’s amazingly stupid and deserves to be fired off that premise alone. But there’s more Dorsey also showed no ability to adjust at the halftime it always seemed like the offense was stuck in mud in the 2nd halves of games nothing came easy and Allen had to resort to hero ball to get us out of trouble. 
 

Any competent organization would have fired both there coordinators for these reasons . But McD is choosing to double down on his guys..

It’s funny there is an essay here on how bad the Bills are at adjusting during halftime. They were the number 1 3rd quarter scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Imagine firing an offensive coordinator and telling him the offense isn’t good enough coming out of halftime when they’re literally the best offense in the NFL coming out of halftime.

 

 I don’t think fans on this board know what to be upset about, they’re just upset. The problem with sports is only one team wins the championship. So the majority of coaches and players lose in the playoffs. If you go to the playoffs every season you’re going to lose a lot in the playoffs. Probably be closer to a .500 team in the playoffs. 

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, Airseven said:

My enthusiasm died at 13 seconds. Have to draw the line somewhere with this franchise.

Yet, here you are making horrible post after post

 

find a hobby

Edited February 6, 2023 by John from Riverside

[NastyNateSoldiers]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It’s funny there is an essay here on how bad the Bills are at adjusting during halftime. They were the number 1 3rd quarter scoring offense in the NFL.

 

Imagine firing an offensive coordinator and telling him the offense isn’t good enough coming out of halftime when they’re literally the best offense in the NFL coming out of halftime.

 

 I don’t think fans on this board know what to be upset about, they’re just upset. The problem with sports is only one team wins the championship. So the majority of coaches and players lose in the playoffs. If you go to the playoffs every season you’re going to lose a lot in the playoffs. Probably be closer to a .500 team in the playoffs. 

Most of those 3rd quarter pts came in blowouts early in the season. After our bye we struggled mightily after the halftime we were also 21st in 4th quarter points so that tells u something was wrong in 2nd halves! 

[ProcessTruster]

zero.  With Miller, DaQuan, Tre, Hyde back at 100%, with Elam as a starting corner , the defense (if it can stay healthy) will be better than its top 5 rank this past year.  

[QCity]

Not going to die but it sure as hell isn't going to go up.

[longtimebillsfan]

13 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

Yes, but he is returning so we will all have to deal with it.

[Sargent Hulka]

I've been watching this team for 57 years. If you want to watch them win a championship, you'll have to watch this one.

       I have zero faith they will ever win one with this management and coaching staff. I think they peaked last season.

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

 

No, I don't feel this way at all.   You can make Frazier a scapegoat for the Bills playoff failures if it floats your boat but I'll wait to see how Beane and McDermott respond to the playoff loss over the off season.  Last season, the Bucs blew out the Eagles in the wild card round.  This season, the Eagles are in the Super Bowl after man-handling their playoff opponents because of a series of roster changes, some big ones and others seemingly minor ones, made before and during this past season.   

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, The Red King said:

Title sums it up.  Honestly, I feel very little excitement or enthusiasm.  I don't see us getting over the hump.  I may not even watch some (or all) of the games until the playoffs (if we even make it).

 

I had enthusiasm last off-season, despite 13-seconds.  I thought the team could get there.  But from what I've seen from the team, I find I have lost all faith in our D schemes.  The only way we pull this off is if Allen puts up 40-50 points in a game.

 

Anyone else feeling this way?

 

 

The titles of 10 other same threads summed this up a week ago.

 

Do you feel immortalized now?

 

 

[Stuartjohn]

14 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

None. He is a good DC.   2 bad playoff games not withstanding.  I can’t forgive those 2 game - but he is still a good DC we can win with. 

No we won’t Ever Win with Frazier as DC! Why hasn’t Any team tried to hire him as a HC? Because “13 seconds is his legacy “ Just Like Norwoods WR!!

[John from Riverside]

28 minutes ago, Stuartjohn said:

No we won’t Ever Win with Frazier as DC! Why hasn’t Any team tried to hire him as a HC? Because “13 seconds is his legacy “ Just Like Norwoods WR!!

Our office will need to be on point in order to win with this defense in the playoffs
 

I just wish the Fraser was a little bit more flexible and we brought in players that can play press man instead of off coverage against teams like the Bengals

 

Elam was a good start for this but we need more

Edited February 6, 2023 by John from Riverside

[Dr. Who]

Dammit, six pages of folks kvetching and no one bothered by the death of enthusism. OP, please put the a in there for the sake of us old proofreaders.

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I completely disagree no one is saying they need to be the 2000 Ravens or the offense needs to be the 99 Rams. But coaches do need to know how to adjust use there players to there strength and absolutely know what kind of talent they have on there team. Frazier wants his players to just play to his scheme instead of finding something that fits into there talents that’s a huge problem he also never uses stunts or twists or lines up his DE in wide formations it’s pretty much the same ole same ole every time. Teams are smart and they will adjust to what u do. The Bengals knew exactly where to go with the football Burrow attacked Frazier simple scheme hitting his weapons in the weak spots of the zone.  U can’t tell me there’s no adjustments for that? 
 

Dorsey this guy is amazing he’s amazing because his run game wasn’t synced with the passing game and that’s amazingly stupid and deserves to be fired off that premise alone. But there’s more Dorsey also showed no ability to adjust at the halftime it always seemed like the offense was stuck in mud in the 2nd halves of games nothing came easy and Allen had to resort to hero ball to get us out of trouble. 
 

Any competent organization would have fired both there coordinators for these reasons . But McD is choosing to double down on his guys..

I mean, Frazier has gotten stars like Levi Wallace/Dane Jackson/Christian Benford to all play like competent CB's for a while.  I guess that has nothing to do with fitting player's talents.

 

"Any competent organization would have fired their coordinators after a top 2 season statistically" lmao.  I think that's never ever happened so I have no idea what you're basing that off of.

[Livinginthepast]

Ive always felt that this current team could and would win DESPITE the coaches not because of them. The problem in this last season was injuries and poor play from the players cost them.  I still think with a healthy squad that this season ends differently, even with the horror of the Damar injury.   I really hope Frazier isnt back and that Beane comes to his senses. I also hope that Beane has the balls to make the tough decisions that he needs to and acts like a GM not McD's weekend co coach for Pop Warner.  Maybe a lot of wishful thinking but thats where my headspace is at.

[Don Otreply]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Our office will need to be on point in order to win with this defense in the playoffs
 

I just wish the Fraser was a little bit more flexible and we brought in players that can play press man instead of off coverage against teams like the Bengals

 

Elam was a good start for this but we need more

From what i have seen of Frazier in interviews, and in games, he is opposed to making in game changes, even when what he schemed doesn’t work, he has said as much himself, he is far to rigid in his thinking, and is content being that way. 

[Beast]

It won’t. I would like a different direction but if keeping Fraizer kills your enthusiasm that’s comical.

[The Red King]

14 minutes ago, Beast said:

It won’t. I would like a different direction but if keeping Fraizer kills your enthusiasm that’s comical.

 

13 seconds was comical?  You got a funny sense of humor.

[RiotAct]

hey - fan IS short for “fanatic”.

 

15 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

Bills were top 3 in least points given up this season and now we gotta score 40-50 a game to win? 🙄

The sky is really falling for some of you so called fans! 

 

 

 

[Beast]

9 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

13 seconds was comical?  You got a funny sense of humor.

Dis you watch this past season? Was your enthusiasm killed because of Fraizer being the DC?

 

 

[Gregg]

Frazier's defense is good enough to put up nice stats and win regular season games. The problem is in the playoffs they are facing good teams with good QB's. That is when they get exposed as frauds. If its Frazier's D or McDermott's D it doesn't matter. It doesn't work against good teams. They aren't winning a Lombardi until they fix that. 

[Spiderweb]

15 hours ago, JimBob2232 said:

None. He is a good DC.   2 bad playoff games not withstanding.  I can’t forgive those 2 game - but he is still a good DC we can win with. 

Well, his defense failed us in the playoff against the Texans, Chiefs twice, and now the Bengals. Sound or not, there exists no imagination and strong lack of aggressiveness. He seems to stubbornly run the same defense play after play expecting a different result (insanity?).

[NastyNateSoldiers]

50 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I mean, Frazier has gotten stars like Levi Wallace/Dane Jackson/Christian Benford to all play like competent CB's for a while.  I guess that has nothing to do with fitting player's talents.

 

"Any competent organization would have fired their coordinators after a top 2 season statistically" lmao.  I think that's never ever happened so I have no idea what you're basing that off of.

Any organization that keeps getting lit up like a Christmas tree in the playoffs would bypass the regular season success. The blunders are inexcusable the Houston comeback, AFC championship game 38pts allowed , the 13 secs game got lit up and massive choke at the end of the game  & then there’s this ass whopping by bkup Oline man . U want more then that? Or are u just happy with putting whippings on horrible teams during regular season? 

[Nitro]

McD will not dump him.  Frazier will be back with his feet of clay, passive pass defenses and fans will suffer through a season schedule that is brutal.  I do not feel optimistic about 2023 with him as DC.

[Gregg]

1 hour ago, Livinginthepast said:

Ive always felt that this current team could and would win DESPITE the coaches not because of them. The problem in this last season was injuries and poor play from the players cost them.  I still think with a healthy squad that this season ends differently, even with the horror of the Damar injury.   I really hope Frazier isnt back and that Beane comes to his senses. I also hope that Beane has the balls to make the tough decisions that he needs to and acts like a GM not McD's weekend co coach for Pop Warner.  Maybe a lot of wishful thinking but thats where my headspace is at.

 

Beane doesn't report to McDermott. Terry said both men report to him. When it comes to coaching the football team, running practices, game planning then Sean is in charge. When it comes to the roster (draft/FA) then Beane is the man. This is coming Terry P. 

[DrDawkinstein]

23 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Any organization that keeps getting lit up like a Christmas tree in the playoffs would bypass the regular season success. The blunders are inexcusable the Houston comeback, AFC championship game 38pts allowed , the 13 secs game got lit up and massive choke at the end of the game  & then there’s this ass whopping by bkup Oline man . U want more then that? Or are u just happy with putting whippings on horrible teams during regular season? 

 

Y'all make it sound like theyve never won a playoff game.

 

Sure, there are some tough outs in there. Guess what, losing in the playoffs will always feel worse because you are over-hyped.

 

We also have 4 playoff WINS. Holding the Ravens to 3 points. Absolutely shutting down the Patriots.

 

I'm not a big Frazier proponent. But yall are out of your minds this offseason.

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Any organization that keeps getting lit up like a Christmas tree in the playoffs would bypass the regular season success. The blunders are inexcusable the Houston comeback, AFC championship game 38pts allowed , the 13 secs game got lit up and massive choke at the end of the game  & then there’s this ass whopping by bkup Oline man . U want more then that? Or are u just happy with putting whippings on horrible teams during regular season? 

We are 4-5 in the playoffs, we hardly get lit up "all playoff."

 

Yes, Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow have beaten us a couple times.  Happens to a lot of teams.

 

The "blunders" are just bad games. They played like ***** against the Bengals. They deserved to lose.

 

You show me a coordinator that guarantees a Super Bowl and I'll say hire them.  But you won't, because they don't exist lmao.

[phypon]

Wake me up when we have a new coaching staff.  The world moves at a much faster pace then it did 15 to 30 years ago.  They've peaked.  Use the roster to get better coaching talent.  NFL = not for long.  Those guys got paid plenty of money, don't feel bad for them.

[All_Pro_Bills]

I believe Frazier is a good coach but I can't say his scheme or leadership gets more out of the players than the sum of the parts and what teams does anything think would be jumping at the opportunity if Leslie ht the market?  That would tell us all we need to know.  While the defense has performed exceptionally great at times I believe that's more a reflection of games when the offense dictates the play to the opponent or the Bills have a clear talent advantage that can cover over some issues.  Neither of those things happen consistently in the playoffs.   

 

Something fundamental needs to change, whether its a fresh perspective on evaluating draft talent, potential free agents, scheme or coaching, but if the teams stands pat with more of the same then I expect more of the same disappointment at the end of next season.

Edited February 6, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I believe Frazier is a good coach but I can't say his scheme or leadership gets more out of the players than the sum of the parts and what teams does anything think would jumping at the opportunity if Leslie ht the market?  That would tell us all we need to know.  While the defense has performed exceptionally great at times I believe that's more a reflection of games when the offense dictates the play to the opponent or the Bills have a clear talent advantage that can cover over some issues.  Neither of those things happen consistently in the playoffs.   

What?

 

He cobbled together the #2 defense in the league, in the best passing era ever, with Christian Benford, Kair Elam, Dane Jackson, Damar Hamlin, Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and the ghost of Tre White all being regulars in the secondary.  Not to mention the scarecrow Edmunds and 1 armed Poyer.

 

You people can't do this.   You can't say all these players suck AND Leslie Frazier sucks. Because guess what?  Almost of the players I listed above ALSO wouldn't have teams jumping at the opportunity to get them. 

 

It's almost like ya'll think we had a bottom 10 defense.

Edited February 6, 2023 by FireChans