Your Offseason Upgrades to the OLine

[JMM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the issue for moving Brown to guard isn't that he's too tall usually for a guard? All I know is that his PP is absolutely pathetic. And Beane making excuses for him the other day did not give me a lot of confidence. We can't afford another year of that level of incompetence there for Josh. 

[IndyMark]

Wait a minute!  How 'bout we plug Ed Oliver into the Guard position.

 

Boom! Two problems solved.

 

No need to thank me Brandon Beane, just doing my part.

 

Next problem?

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I would release or Mitch Morse retires and move Ryan Bates to Center. I would bring in Andre Dillard from the Eagles to compete at either LT or Right Tackle. Dillard wont break the bank as he has been a semi bust due to injuries(2 out of 4 years). If Dillard can prove himself as a LT in the league(debatable), this would allow the Bills to either move Dawkins inside or Dillard/Dawkins can replace Spencer Brown. Dillard is more of a natural left tackle so I will simply bump Dillard to LT and Dawkins will slot at either LG/RT. I would also try to make a move on Trey Pipkins. A prospect very similar to Spencer Brown. Started for the Chargers and had a decent season. Might not break the bank but will command some type of solid contract. 

 

In the 2nd round, I'd take Cody Mauch OG from North Dakota State if he is available. A former Tackle who is projected inside to guard in the NFL. Some think he could go round 1 if he kills the all star circuit. Will need to add some mass but my objective here is to get way more athletic on the offensive line since we are going to continue to pass the ball a ton. I'd like to get a more athletic offensive line so we can add the screen game back into the picture. 

 

 

 

LT: Dillard

LG: Dawkins

Center: Ryan Bates

RG:  Cody Mauch

RT: Pipkins/Brown

 

Thats my idea. Don't think it is too far fetched. I wouldn't say its a dominant offensive line but with our cap restrictions and my thoughts on we have to get more athletic upfront, I think this fits the Bill. Obviously we would add some other depth pieces. 

I'm less worried about getting specific with names, I'm more inclined to comment on the type of players we need. We need a couple maulers on this line.  I've heard the word "soft" used to describe us in the trenches on both sides of the ball far too many times now. 

[gonzo1105]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

I'm less worried about getting specific with names, I'm more inclined to comment on the type of players we need. We need a couple maulers on this line.  I've heard the word "soft" used to describe us in the trenches on both sides of the ball far too many times now. 

 

Well look over the offensive line list and tell me who you would want that isn't going to cost more than 6 million per season. That's how Free Agency goes. The top end guys get top end dollar(we can't afford), and then the rest are modest short term to reclamation projects, to stop gaps etc. 

 

Its easy to just rip off anyone but most guys aren't realistic. If you want a mauler who's big then Torrance from Florida is probably your guy in the 1st round from Florida. Mauch was a mauling FCS Tackle who will have to move inside and hopefully will be able to do the same in the NFL while providing athleticism. 

 

Saffold was considered a mauler and it didn't work out. If you want Maulers then we better get rid of the whole line cause none of them classify in that realm including Dawkins, Morse, and Bates. 

[nosejob]

8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Finally, an idea I absolutely love. but how are we going to afford that RG and RT?

I don't think we have to break the bank for Powers. Length of contract and bonus should smooth that out. If we can get Mcglinchey on a 2 or 3 yr. deal, sure it'll cost us ,but again, if they can find a way to sign Von...

 

Also, I'm not paying Edmunds. Nope

[Billz4ever]

6 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

Well look over the offensive line list and tell me who you would want that isn't going to cost more than 6 million per season. That's how Free Agency goes. The top end guys get top end dollar(we can't afford), and then the rest are modest short term to reclamation projects, to stop gaps etc. 

 

Its easy to just rip off anyone but most guys aren't realistic. If you want a mauler who's big then Torrance from Florida is probably your guy in the 1st round from Florida. Mauch was a mauling FCS Tackle who will have to move inside and hopefully will be able to do the same in the NFL while providing athleticism. 

 

Saffold was considered a mauler and it didn't work out. If you want Maulers then we better get rid of the whole line cause none of them classify in that realm including Dawkins, Morse, and Bates. 

Sounds good to me.  Saffold wasn't much of anything, nevermind a Mauler.  Saffold reminds me more of a speed bump.

[BILLSINATL]

LT-Dawkins

LG-Bates/Rookie/Ike

C-Morse/Bates

RG-Risner (FA)

RT-Brown/Rookie 

 

G/T/C- 2nd round

G/T/C 3rd or 4th round

Edited January 27, 2023 by BILLSINATL

[Brand J]

Don’t think the Bills can keep Edmunds AND get a significant OL upgrade in FA. They’re in bad cap shape, so paying anyone a premium will come with hurdles anyway.
 

I remember reports from camp that the 1st team DL had to be pulled so that the 1st team offense could get work. Apparently the DL was just dominate. I also remember after that first game against the Rams how Stafford peeled himself off the turf after yet another hit with a bloody elbow, 2 or 3 of his lineman on the ground next to him. The DL dominated early and through injuries, wear and tear, and whatever other reasons, they were a shell of that training camp unit against the Bengals. 
 

Let Edmunds walk and get an OL in here that will allow me the first team offense to compete in the trenches against the first team DL. And the rest of the league’s first team DL.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Chiefs fans consider Orlando Brown a weakness. He and the RT are the supposed weakness of their OL, so no, I don’t think Orlando is a huge upgrade to Dion. As far as drafting a comparable C to Creed Humphrey, we’d have to get really lucky because that dude had off the charts athleticism. He was a 10 on the RAS scale. He had everything that should’ve made him Josh’s long time center, but… Bills. Bates finished with the same grade as Morse this year and I know center is his preferred position on the line. Perhaps move him there, release Morse (or if he retires) and work on getting 3 new OL. It’s not gonna be easy, Beane has his work cut out for him. Dawkins shouldn’t be the unquestioned starter at LT either.

Something about Orlando Brown brings out the stupidity in Chiefs fans.  He's a top 10 LT and would be a huge upgrade.  He left Baltimore because he refuses to play RT which is a shame because he's elite at that position. 

 

The only way he leaves Kansas City is if he completely prices himself out.  Given their relative cap situations, there's no realistic scenario in which Buffalo could afford him in that scenario.

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Success said:

I don't know enough about O-line schemes.  But how much can our issues be tied to coaching?  I look at what Scarnecchia did for years in NE, and then also what Cincy did with 3 starters out, and 1 playing hurt.  

 

I feel like we don't need THAT much of an upgrade in personnel.  Dawkins & Morse are both very good, and I think Brown is still developing.  Bates & Boettger are solid.

 

A good bit is coaching and scheme. 
 

Allen was getting pressured on everything .. immediately .. blitzes from all over coming untouched, normal rushes, 3 man rushes … they were on skates all day. 

[The Jokeman]

I'm not sure if he's a significant upgrade but David Edwards the Rams LG from last season likely be available, he's only going to be 26 year next year. Likely not going to break the bank as was injured last year but does have ties to Kromer with their time with Rams together. I'd definitely welcome him to the mix. 

[MrEpsYtown]

1 hour ago, JMM said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but the issue for moving Brown to guard isn't that he's too tall usually for a guard? All I know is that his PP is absolutely pathetic. And Beane making excuses for him the other day did not give me a lot of confidence. We can't afford another year of that level of incompetence there for Josh. 

 

Because Josh is big and tall it doesn't matter. His center is 6-6. However, Brown really struggles with leverage and that would hurt him as the post man on double teams and dealing with the smaller stockier bowl ball DTs. It is his skill set that keeps him from being a guard, not his size. 

 

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I'm not sure if he's a significant upgrade but David Edwards the Rams LG from last season likely be available, he's only going to be 26 year next year. Likely not going to break the bank as was injured last year but does have ties to Kromer with their time with Rams together. I'd definitely welcome him to the mix. 

 

I mentioned him in another thread. I like Edwards. He replaced Saffold in LA and was very solid. Here is the thing with Edwards, he had a horrible year and he got hurt. When Jordan Phillips embarrassed that guard in week 1 with the inside swim move, that was Edwards. He had been mostly durable and an above average guard under Kromer and he fell off a cliff this past year. So he can't be your answer, but he is a great guy to bring in and compete. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[TampaBillsJunkie]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

A younger Guard who will become an All Pro😉 

Oh, like Wyatt Teller. 

[Manther]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

LT - Dawkins

LG - 1st or 2nd round pick

C - Bates (Morse cut for $5M cap savings)

RG - free agent

RT - Brown (2nd or 3rd round pick to compete)

That is not bad.  I don't think we should cut Morse.  He may retire though.  If we draft two Olinemen in the top 3 rounds (which I am good with) I think the other pick needs to be a WR and that needs to happen in the first two rounds. 

 

I would like our Guard we draft to be a Center/Guard.  It does not have to be, but, nice.  Similar to when we drafted Wood.  He played Guard for a year or two then moved in to Center.  I like the Center/Guard at #27.  We could have the best Center in the draft.

 

I think we need 3 Olinemen in the offseason between the draft and FA.  I think it should be 2 in the draft and one FA.

 

I like Bates better at RG than LG.  I like Bates as a Center too.

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Boettegger or draft pick or FA

C- Morse or Bates or draft pick

RG - Bates (competes with draft pick or FA)

RT - Brown (competes with draft pick or FA)

 

Edit : Insert Ike Boettegger

Edited January 27, 2023 by Manther

[Manther]

1 hour ago, BILLSINATL said:

LT-Dawkins

LG-Bates/Rookie/Ike

C-Morse/Bates

RG-Risner (FA)

RT-Brown/Rookie 

 

G/T/C- 2nd round

G/T/C 3rd or 4th round

I like this too

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Trade Ed for an “all pro” guard?  🤣 

 

We won’t be that lucky, but that all pro guard will want 15-20M a year.  
 

Edit: sorry-  I just don’t think adding 15-20M OL will be part of our plan.  

 

I know---that was the biggest wtf moment in the OP's thread

 

this place....!

[Dablitzkrieg]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

It's very clear that the current offensive line is simply not good enough.  
Unfortunately, I don't expect Beane to make many significant changes.
But, I believe they are needed. Here is what I would do

 

 

 

1. ) if Orlando Brown hits the market, try to sign him.  (Unlikely & $$$)

2.) Trade Ed Oliver for an All Pro Guard.   (Let Saffold walk)

3.) Draft a C in the first three rounds. Hope that he's comparable to Creed Humphrey (Release Mitch Morse - Concussions + cap savings)
 

4.) Ryan Bates starts at RG. Try Spencer Brown at Guard as depth (I know he's taller than most Guards, whatever)
 

5.) If #1 doesn't happen - Trade a 2nd Round pick (23 or 24) for a very good RT  OR  Draft a RT in the first two rounds. 

 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - All Pro via Trade
C - Rookie top 3 rounds
RG - Bates / S. Brown
RT - O. Brown / Very Good Starter via Trade / Rookie top 2 rounds

 

I think it's absolutely critical to add at least 1 high caliber player to the OLine 
 

 

[starrymessenger]

14 minutes ago, TampaBillsJunkie said:

Oh, like Wyatt Teller. 

Or O'Cyrus Torrence, who has been mocked to us and is acknowledged to be the top prospect at the position. 

[RyanC883]

draft Patterson from ND (G/C); or Tipperman from Wisconsin (G/C); and Bergeron (OT-Syr) or Wright (OT-Tenn) or Kirkland (OT/G-Washington). 

 

I'd def want Patterson, who allowed 0 sacks through his Jr. year, then would target Kirkland if available, then Bergeron (who played R and L OT) and Wright.     Come out of there with one of the G/C and one or two of the OTs.  

 

Trade back into the second if there is no top WR in the 1st, and Robinson (RB) is not available.  

 

Here is how it could look: 

 

 

LT - Dawkins

LG - Patterson/Bottegger backup 

C- Morse, Patterson backup Bates or draft pick

RG - Bates (competes with draft pick Kirkland if he is the OT pick)

RT - Brown (competes with draft pick Bergeron/Wright/Kirkland)

 

Line should be improved.  I'd be open for a FA, but likely costs too much and would rather get WR or LB to replace Edmunds.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by RyanC883

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

Ideally they should move Bates back to LG (where he was also good), kick Spencer Brown inside to RG (which hides his weaknesses and accentuates his strengths), pray to god that Morse doesn't retire and then use that 1st rnd pick on a bluechip OL prospect to play RT. 

If you pick the right guy, you potentially upgrade 3 starting positions on the OL with minimal cap cost and only have to use a single asset to do it. Then you still have the rest of your draft picks and what cap space you have to keep Edmunds and fill multiple other needs.

Regardless of what they do, they really need to nail this draft to extend their window of contention.

Totally agree. No way I ever want to see Spencer at RT.  Slide him over to RG and sign Juwan Taylor at RT.  Draft a LG and a C and hope you can get 1 more year out of Morse. Or slide Bates to C if Morse retires?  Even Boettger wouldn't put up a 49 at LG. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Ayjent]

I’m having a problem having faith that the Bills know how to identify OL talent.  Dawkins is their best OL player and he is not anywhere near the best at his position. The interior line is very mediocre at best. Sadly I’d think we’d probably be complaining about the whiffs on the OL ad much as the DL had the investment been made there instead. 

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

Ideally they should move Bates back to LG (where he was also good), kick Spencer Brown inside to RG (which hides his weaknesses and accentuates his strengths), pray to god that Morse doesn't retire and then use that 1st rnd pick on a bluechip OL prospect to play RT. 

If you pick the right guy, you potentially upgrade 3 starting positions on the OL with minimal cap cost and only have to use a single asset to do it. Then you still have the rest of your draft picks and what cap space you have to keep Edmunds and fill multiple other needs.

Regardless of what they do, they really need to nail this draft to extend their window of contention.

Well said Simon. That's best case scenario. Gonna be hard to find that blue chip starting RT though. 

[CEN-CAL17]

FA Dalton Risner OG Denver.  When I attended the Senior Bowl practices he rotated in at Center and was solid. Potential replacement for Morse in coming years.

 

Round 2 draft: OG Cooper Beebe. Solid OG Kansas State.

 

Funny thing Risner and Cooper Beebe both from K State.

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, IndyMark said:

Wait a minute!  How 'bout we plug Ed Oliver into the Guard position.

 

Boom! Two problems solved.

 

No need to thank me Brandon Beane, just doing my part.

 

Next problem?

Ed's way to small for that!

 

He's too small for the position he plays now!

 

 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Don’t think the Bills can keep Edmunds AND get a significant OL upgrade in FA. They’re in bad cap shape, so paying anyone a premium will come with hurdles anyway.
 

I remember reports from camp that the 1st team DL had to be pulled so that the 1st team offense could get work. Apparently the DL was just dominate. I also remember after that first game against the Rams how Stafford peeled himself off the turf after yet another hit with a bloody elbow, 2 or 3 of his lineman on the ground next to him. The DL dominated early and through injuries, wear and tear, and whatever other reasons, they were a shell of that training camp unit against the Bengals. 
 

Let Edmunds walk and get an OL in here that will allow me the first team offense to compete in the trenches against the first team DL. And the rest of the league’s first team DL.

Not a huge fan of Edmunds. Beane actually is and all his comments indicate he will give Edmunds the big money. 

 

Edmunds actually played well this year. You could actually see the significant drop off when he wasn't in the line up. However, was this more of a one hot season due to his contract year? His previous years weren't nearly as productive. 

 

I think his signing or not signing will tell us what direction the team wants to go. Sign him and solidify the defense. Create a hole get a stop gap LB and put the money towards the offense. I think they will resign Edmunds. 

[Brand J]

7 minutes ago, Ayjent said:

I’m having a problem having faith that the Bills know how to identify OL talent.  Dawkins is their best OL player and he is not anywhere near the best at his position. The interior line is very mediocre at best. Sadly I’d think we’d probably be complaining about the whiffs on the OL ad much as the DL had the investment been made there instead. 

It’s not just the trenches. Beane also passed on a number of game breaking wide receivers and had the temerity to say if he had a shot at someone like Ja’marr Chase he would’ve ran to the podium with the card. They’ve had shots at receivers on, or close to Chase’s level yet didn’t pick any of them. That’s an evaluation issue. They selected Elam in the first this year and he had games where he was a healthy scratch. Thats inexcusable. Beane hit it out of the park with one pick - Josh Allen. That’s it. He’s been “good” on a few others, but no other blue chippers or game breakers have been selected under his watch. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think Bates switches back to LG where he seemed more comfortable last year. 

[Brand J]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Not a huge fan of Edmunds. Beane actually is and all his comments indicate he will give Edmunds the big money. 

 

Edmunds actually played well this year. You could actually see the significant drop off when he wasn't in the line up. However, was this more of a one hot season due to his contract year? His previous years weren't nearly as productive. 

 

I think his signing or not signing will tell us what direction the team wants to go. Sign him and solidify the defense. Create a hole get a stop gap LB and put the money towards the offense. I think they will resign Edmunds. 

I think it’s less about his contract year and more about having a better DL in front of him. When healthy the DL was pretty good, still had bad games where you wonder what was going on, but with Von and Greg on the outside, a healthy Oliver and Jones on the inside, and a quality backup like Phillips, they weren’t the worst in the world and Edmunds benefitted. Translated into Milano’s first “first team” all pro too. Thing is, I need a LB that can make plays when all isn’t perfect in front of him. And that hasn’t been Edmunds.

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I think it’s less about his contract year and more about having a better DL in front of him. When healthy the DL was pretty good, still had bad games where you wonder what was going on, but with Von and Greg on the outside, a healthy Oliver and Jones on the inside, and a quality backup like Phillips, they weren’t the worst in the world and Edmunds benefitted. Translated into Milano’s first “first team” all pro too. Thing is, I need a LB that can make plays when all isn’t perfect in front of him. And that hasn’t been Edmunds.

They drafted LB Bernard in the 3rd round. Maybe he's the replacement? The organization is investing in the younger guys and projecting them to learn and play better. So maybe Bernard is next man up.

[nosejob]

12 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Edmunds actually played well this year. You could actually see the significant drop off when he wasn't in the line up. However, was this more of a one hot season due to his contract year? His previous years weren't nearly as productive

I respectfully disagree....A.j. Klein is a much better LB and we would have been better off playing  a 4-3 with him, but that's another argument.

[Victory Formation]

LT: Dion Dawkins

LG: Broderick Jones (1st round)

OC: Mitch Morse (Ryan Bates primary b/u)

RG: Spencer Brown 

RT: Dewand Jones (2nd round)

 

• Re-sign David Quessenberry

• Re-sign Ike Boettger

 

3rd, 4th, 5th and 5th picks left.

(needs LB, S, WR)

 

Would consider moving Oliver for maybe a 2nd? Isaiah McKenzie maybe a 4th?

[Gunsgoodtime]

Lost me at #2.   Trade Ed Oliver for an All Pro guard 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.  I used to play a lot of Madden too.

[dpberr]

I'd get to drafting a center.  

No FA linemen over age 30.

No more Roger Saffold. Strong man, but has the foot quickness of a 70-year old man.  

 

IMO, the biggest area of improvement for the Bills offensive line is conditioning and more importantly,  improving agility and balance.  I watch teams like the Eagles and Ravens who have stout lines, and their linemen do not appear as gassed with the huffing/puffing.  They are active with the hands, have quick feet, and good balance.   

 

 

 

 

[MrEpsYtown]

Just add here, I think the Bates looking more comfy at left guard thing has two sides to it. First, he was playing next to Dion as opposed to Spencer Brown. Playing next to an experienced guy makes a lot of difference for a young guy. Also at PSU he made the majority of his starts at LT, so in practice he was never working as a swing type guy and would have taken all his reps in indy as a LT. So perhaps he just has a natural feel for that right side. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by MrEpsYtown

[Pirate Angel]

Trade back in the draft and acquire another 2nd and addition midround pics and use them on interior lineman. 

[Success]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Not a huge fan of Edmunds. Beane actually is and all his comments indicate he will give Edmunds the big money. 

 

Edmunds actually played well this year. You could actually see the significant drop off when he wasn't in the line up. However, was this more of a one hot season due to his contract year? His previous years weren't nearly as productive. 

 

I think his signing or not signing will tell us what direction the team wants to go. Sign him and solidify the defense. Create a hole get a stop gap LB and put the money towards the offense. I think they will resign Edmunds. 

 

He's still pretty young.  I don't think this was a "contract year" thing as much as a guy who has finally grown into the position at the NFL level.

 

He reminds me a bit of Polamalu.  I'm hoping they figure out how to keep him.  I think he'll only get better.

 

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

He's still pretty young.  I don't think this was a "contract year" thing as much as a guy who has finally grown into the position at the NFL level.

 

He reminds me a bit of Polamalu.  I'm hoping they figure out how to keep him.  I think he'll only get better.

 

He's cluless adios. I sure as hell ain't paying him 15 plus....nope hard pass. I d rather draft his replacement.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

Ideally they should move Bates back to LG (where he was also good), kick Spencer Brown inside to RG (which hides his weaknesses and accentuates his strengths), pray to god that Morse doesn't retire and then use that 1st rnd pick on a bluechip OL prospect to play RT. 

If you pick the right guy, you potentially upgrade 3 starting positions on the OL with minimal cap cost and only have to use a single asset to do it. Then you still have the rest of your draft picks and what cap space you have to keep Edmunds and fill multiple other needs.

Regardless of what they do, they really need to nail this draft to extend their window of contention.

I'd sign up for this at a minimum.

[Dr.Sack]

The line will need to be rebuilt with an emphasis on building around the Dawkins, Morse, Bates nucleus - which is not really an indication of their quality, but overall just how bad Saffold and Brown were in 2022.

 

Saffold is old and was a one year rentals.

 

Brown is more interesting. I thought he had a nice rookie season. He had back offseason back surgery and was not 100% - if he was then cut him. Brown cannot generate power from his base. He's really good at falling over himself and tripping. If Brown is serious about being a 6'8'' mauler, he will spend this offseason doing yoga, plyometrics, and building his lower body strength. 

 

Bates is meh. Morse is a 30 year old meh. Dawkins was horrible at times, and great at others. More consistency is needed. 

 

Perhaps the Bills offensive identity in 2023, should be trying to run the ball on specific early game drives to allow the OL to maul the smaller fronts teams deploy to stop our pass. 

 

Certainly need to find 2 starters (LG and RT), which can be found via the draft and FA. 

[BillsNutHawaii]

8 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Sounds great.  Who's the team trading us an All-Pro guard for Ed?

We don't need a team to trade an All-Pro guard to us, they already grow on trees.