Final Pro Football Focus Oline Season Grades

[Coach Tuesday]

I’m really curious about their pro personnel evaluation process, including their own self-scouting - who is in charge of it, whether the coaches have input (and how much), etc.  They have a really tough time getting it right at a variety of key positions (but not others, like cornerback).  They need to figure out why and effing fix it.  

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

6 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

is Saffold’s grade really low because he was emotionally exhausted this year ?

It's very trying putting a up low 40s grade on PFF!

[BearNorth]

10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Image if we had a couple of all pro linemen how much Allen would destroy the league. 

We had one on the board, Creed Humphrey top rated center in the draft 1300 snaps in 2022, was drafted second round pick 63 in 2021.  We drafted Boogie 2 spots earlier.  I know they feel loyalty to Morse, but this is a head slapper.  Makes you wonder about our scouting dept.

[harmonkillebrew]

9 hours ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Good lord, I knew it was bad but this is brutal. A testament to Allen and the rest of the offense for doing as much as they did in spite of this.

Agree Dick.

We need to add two starting caliber Linemen in UFA and draft some depth at G/C.

Time for an overhaul.  

It's a train wreck and only a matter of time until this lack of investment in the line results in a serious injury to Allen

[NewEra]

10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Honestly, if we walk away from this draft with less than 2 WR and 3 O-linemen, I will be very disappointed. 

And Hodgins looked great playing for the Giants. Honestly makes me wonder. 

You’ll be very disappointed again

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Honestly, if we walk away from this draft with less than 2 WR and 3 O-linemen, I will be very disappointed. 

And Hodgins looked great playing for the Giants. Honestly makes me wonder. 

 

And everyone knew Hodgins looked good this year in preseason and deserved a roster spot over Kumerow. But special teams. And then Kumerow ends up missing half the season anyway. 

 

At least with Teller nobody really knew if he was good or not when we let him go. 

[BearNorth]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

And everyone knew Hodgins looked good this year in preseason and deserved a roster spot over Kumerow. But special teams. And then Kumerow ends up missing half the season anyway. 

 

At least with Teller nobody really knew if he was good or not when we let him go. 

Our special teams weren't even relevant against Cinci.  You need to have an O-line that protects the QB, WR's that can win one-on-one's, and DB's that can cover.  We had none of these, and Cinci was playing with backups at both CB spots and 3 of the O-LIne.

[2003Contenders]

The grades are pretty consistent with many posters' thoughts that the LG and RT positions need to be upgraded in a significant way. Saffold has no business being on the team at all. At best, Brown needs to be a backup/swing tackle. Even though Morse graded out reasonably well, due to his age and concussion history, the team needs to seriously consider making long term plans at the Center position too.

 

The good news is that finding a solution at LG and RT should not break the bank as reinforcements can be found in free agency and the early-to-middle rounds of the draft. Additional prospects can also be found in the later rounds. However, the front office is going to need to do a better job in both pro and college scouting to avoid making Saffold-type errors again.

 

If I were the one making the decisions, I would move Bates back to LG, where he played well in the past. Then bring in a solid veteran (not a castoff like Quisenberry) to play RT and invest a 1st or 2nd round draft pick on someone who can play RG (AND pick up other interior options in FA as well). Should also draft a couple more linemen in the middle/late rounds for competition/depth too.

Edited January 27, 2023 by 2003Contenders

[DCbillsfan]

24 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

We had one on the board, Creed Humphrey top rated center in the draft 1300 snaps in 2022, was drafted second round pick 63 in 2021.  We drafted Boogie 2 spots earlier.  I know they feel loyalty to Morse, but this is a head slapper.  Makes you wonder about our scouting dept.

They could have drafted Humphrey and have him play guard for awhile.  The Bills oline situation is so annoying.  One dumb move after another.  Hey let's sign an old broken down OL for one year for $6+ million.  *****

[ArdmoreRyno]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 

D. Dawkins: 73.5

R. Saffold: 43.7

M. Morse: 61.4

R. Bates: 61.8

S. Brown: 51.4

For reference a solid NFL starter has a 70 grade…a pro bowl player has an 80ish grade…an all pro has a high 80s to low 90s grade..Trent Williams has the highest at 93.7

 

Josh Allen had over 5000 yards of offense and 42 touchdowns and had a PFF grade of 91.6 the highest of any QB with this line which graded out 26th blocking for him.  

 

Posted about this Monday... 

 

 

[Albany,n.y.]

10 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Image if we had a couple of all pro linemen how much Allen would destroy the league. 

We saw that in 2020 when Williams was playing for a contract and was solid at RT and Feliciano was still a heavyweight.  Josh was 2nd in MVP voting and hit 69% of his pssses.

[The Frankish Reich]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 

D. Dawkins: 73.5

R. Saffold: 43.7

M. Morse: 61.4

R. Bates: 61.8

S. Brown: 51.4

For reference a solid NFL starter has a 70 grade…a pro bowl player has an 80ish grade…an all pro has a high 80s to low 90s grade..Trent Williams has the highest at 93.7

 

Josh Allen had over 5000 yards of offense and 42 touchdowns and had a PFF grade of 91.6 the highest of any QB with this line which graded out 26th blocking for him.  

Thanks for the post. This is what I’ve been saying: one good starter, two marginally acceptable starters (who really should be backups, including Morse at this stage of his career), 2 sub-replacement level players who amazingly continued to start all season long. 

[LabattBlue]

Did Saffold’s grade factor in being exhausted and out of gas?

[frostbitmic]

Dawkins and Morse had one thing in common that held their grades back ,,, They both line up next to Saffold.

 

Saffold is the weakest link and needs to be replaced, preferably by a 1st or 2nd round rookie. Brown needs to have some serious competition for his starting job as well. Time to protect Josh and replace the turnstyles.

[Frostbite]

WRT Teller, he's a mauler best suited for run blocking. The run heavy scheme in Clev fits his strengths perfectly. I'd still take him any day over what we have, just dont think he'd grade out as strongly here. 

 

Rd 1 we take best available IOL. 

[DJB]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think you can draft one at end of the 1st. Agreed. That is why I am open to trading. And actually older left tackles sliding into guard rather than going to RT isn't all that rare. Brandon Albert and Jason Peters being the two that spring straight to mind. It is generally what you do with guys who are struggling a little bit keeping themselves at their "tackle" weight and Dion fits into that.

We need a reliable and guaranteed upgrade all along the line no doubt. 
 

But Dion is getting moved from LT to G it isn’t happening even though it would be ideal. On the Bills he’s going to play tackle next season 

17 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Did Saffold’s grade factor in being exhausted and out of gas?

Needs to eat more Mexican next year to avoid running out of gas

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, DCbillsfan said:

They could have drafted Humphrey and have him play guard for awhile.  The Bills oline situation is so annoying.  One dumb move after another.  Hey let's sign an old broken down OL for one year for $6+ million.  *****

This makes me think that Bills need to look at how they are evaluating college OL.

OL has been a constant need since Beane arrived.

 

Pos         Player                          TM     2022RK   Dr Yr   RD  Pick  Bills Pick

Center    Linderbaum,Tyler        BLT     6             2022    1    25     Kair Elam
Center    Humphrey,Creed         KC      1              2021    2    63    Boogie Basham
Guard    Meinerz,Quinn              DEN    6             2021    3    99    Spencer Brown
Guard    Smith,Trey                    KC      11             2021    6    227  Damar Hamlin
Guard    Onwenu,Michael          NE       4             2020    6    182  Tyler Bass
Guard    Cleveland,Ezra            MN       9             2020    2    58    AJ Epenesa
Tackle    McGary,Kaleb             ATL      4             2019     1    31    Ed Oliver [9th]

 

2022 Rank is from PFF

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by BearNorth

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Airseven said:

Stick with how bad the OL was - how Beane got duped by Saffold and how he paid/promoted Bates perhaps prematurely. This doesn’t need to always wind up a backhanded compliment (excuse?) for Allen.

Why not?  Allen's performance this season given the reality of the O line was nothing short of miraculous.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

I would love see the stats for the time they gave Allen to throw. Was it average of 4 seconds or 2 seconds etc. A lot of OLine look bad because some (not saying Allen) QBs take forever to throw the ball, while others look good, like TB, because the QB throws it in 2 seconds or less. 

The time to throw stat can be deeply misleading. Allen is a wizard at extending plays and adding seconds to that time.  My guess is what you're looking for are pressures and I assume that this was included in the PFF grading. For perspective in the last game Allen was pressured on nearly half his drop backs.

 

 

 

 

[Malazan]

12 hours ago, Airseven said:

Stick with how bad the OL was - how Beane got duped by Saffold and how he paid/promoted Bates perhaps prematurely. This doesn’t need to always wind up a backhanded compliment (excuse?) for Allen.

 

Pretty sure you were trashing Beane when it looked like Bates might leave. Then again.. you're a broken record. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I would bring in a C/G type from early in draft would conceivably be the long term answer at C or compete with Boettger/ Bates as a rookie. I would also bring in a veteran OG as insurance would can threaten them. In addition, If a potential long term solution at LT became available I'd pull the trigger and move Dawkins to guard. At any rate, I'm also bringing in a veteran T to compete with Brown/Doyle. I'm applying redudancy to the problem. It's too important and has to be solved now.

Edited January 27, 2023 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

 

Pass blocking grades were somewhat better aside from Bates.  Saffold and Brown need to be replaced.  Move Bates back to LG.

 

Dawkins - 80.4

Saffold - 50.2

Morse - 70.1

Bates - 61.5

Brown - 53.4

Definitely agree with this, one of the more underrated factors in why the offensive line struggled IMO was the signing of Saffold and the subsequent displacement of Bates from LG to RG. I see what they were trying to do because of Saffold's history at that spot, but think it's easy to see with hindsight that it was the wrong call and wonder how things may have worked out differently with Bates at LG (his best position and with already established chemistry with Dawkins and Morse) and a different FA/draft pick at RG. 

 

Hoping that after this offseason, the 2023 offensive line could look something like this:

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Ryan Bates

C- Mitch Morse

RG- Andrew Vorhees (Day 2 pick out of USC, athletic and powerful run blocker with the versatility to play every spot except center)

RT- Andre Dillard (FA signing) or Terence Steele (offer sheet as he's an RFA), somewhat established right tackles in this league that wouldn't cost the moon but could provide more steady play for us in the short term while Spencer Brown hopefully develops further and serves as the swing tackle. 

 

With this reshuffled offensive line, I think Josh wouldn't be running for his life nearly as much and our run game would be more consistently productive. The changes/upgrades also don't eat up an unrealistic amount of cap space and by using a Day 2 pick on Vorhees (could see him being 2nd or 3rd round depending on his combine), we still have our first rounder to hopefully add a genuine WR 2 to the offense. 

 

Links for the new players: 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/andrew-vorhees-52b8ed3b-e751-4935-8255-b90c2fce9da5/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/andre-dillard-29057/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/terence-steele-48236/

[KOKBILLS]

4 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I’m really curious about their pro personnel evaluation process, including their own self-scouting - who is in charge of it, whether the coaches have input (and how much), etc.  They have a really tough time getting it right at a variety of key positions (but not others, like cornerback).  They need to figure out why and effing fix it.  

 

The entire Organization from Beane down through the Coaching staff needs to re-think many things. But to be perfectly honest, as someone who has lived the NFL Draft and hobby-scouting for over 30 years now, most of it is Beane's Dept...College and Pro. As a Draft nerd some of the misses are really glaring. And the UFA's have been a mixed bag, especially when you consider 2 of the best UFA signings we've have had in the McD era (Poyer and Hyde) came before Beane was in charge. Beane is quite literally living off of Josh and Diggs reputation-wise. 

[78thealltimegreat]

49 minutes ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Definitely agree with this, one of the more underrated factors in why the offensive line struggled IMO was the signing of Saffold and the subsequent displacement of Bates from LG to RG. I see what they were trying to do because of Saffold's history at that spot, but think it's easy to see with hindsight that it was the wrong call and wonder how things may have worked out differently with Bates at LG (his best position and with already established chemistry with Dawkins and Morse) and a different FA/draft pick at RG. 

 

Hoping that after this offseason, the 2023 offensive line could look something like this:

 

LT- Dion Dawkins

LG- Ryan Bates

C- Mitch Morse

RG- Andrew Vorhees (Day 2 pick out of USC, athletic and powerful run blocker with the versatility to play every spot except center)

RT- Andre Dillard (FA signing) or Terence Steele (offer sheet as he's an RFA), somewhat established right tackles in this league that wouldn't cost the moon but could provide more steady play for us in the short term while Spencer Brown hopefully develops further and serves as the swing tackle. 

 

With this reshuffled offensive line, I think Josh wouldn't be running for his life nearly as much and our run game would be more consistently productive. The changes/upgrades also don't eat up an unrealistic amount of cap space and by using a Day 2 pick on Vorhees (could see him being 2nd or 3rd round depending on his combine), we still have our first rounder to hopefully add a genuine WR 2 to the offense. 

 

Links for the new players: 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/andrew-vorhees-52b8ed3b-e751-4935-8255-b90c2fce9da5/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/andre-dillard-29057/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/terence-steele-48236/

This isn’t bad Voorhees is terrific but Terrence Steele is coming of an ACL tear and you’d probably have to wait till October for him to see any meaningful action 

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

Saffold is the weakest link and needs to be replaced, preferably by a 1st or 2nd round rookie. Brown needs to have some serious competition for his starting job as well. Time to protect Josh and replace the turnstyles.

 

Yeah, everyone and their mother knows the OL needs upgrades, but let's not go back to 2009 by using top draft picks for centers and guards because there was a glaring interior line issue.

 

Use more efficient means to address IOL, focus on the priority positions, and don't waste high picks just to fill a need.  

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, DJB said:

We need a reliable and guaranteed upgrade all along the line no doubt. 
 

But Dion is getting moved from LT to G it isn’t happening even though it would be ideal. On the Bills he’s going to play tackle next season 

 

He probably is. He wouldn't be if I was running the team.

[DJB]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He probably is. He wouldn't be if I was running the team.

That leaves you with two gaping holes at the tackle positions 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, DJB said:

That leaves you with two gaping holes at the tackle positions 

 

No I'd be seeking to bring in a vet and to trade to do it if necessary. Jake Matthews is my target. Him at LT. Dawkins at LG. Morse at C. Bates at RG. I'll try and draft a right tackle. 

[TheBrownBear]

Brown showed promise as a rookie and graded out as a physical freak, so I understand why they took the chance of rolling with him this year.  I wonder how much of a factor his back injury was in his poor play this year.  I know Beane discussed a lack of reps for him in the offseason and training camp, and for a young project like Brown, I can see how that could have led to his stifled development (or outright regression).  At a minimum, I think we need to let Saffold walk, move Bates back to left guard where he looked more comfortable in 2021, and draft an OG (rounds 2/3), RT (late day 2, early day 3) and developmental C.  

[Billz4ever]

15 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

 

D. Dawkins: 73.5

R. Saffold: 43.7

M. Morse: 61.4

R. Bates: 61.8

S. Brown: 51.4

For reference a solid NFL starter has a 70 grade…a pro bowl player has an 80ish grade…an all pro has a high 80s to low 90s grade..Trent Williams has the highest at 93.7

 

Josh Allen had over 5000 yards of offense and 42 touchdowns and had a PFF grade of 91.6 the highest of any QB with this line which graded out 26th blocking for him.  

Geez, we paid Saffold $6M to come in and stink up the joint.

 

This is where we were last year.  Better across the board.

 

LT Dion Dawkins | 77.5
LG Ike Boettger | 59.8
C Mitch Morse | 63.8
RG Daryl Williams | 67.5
RT Spencer Brown | 62.5

Edited January 27, 2023 by Billz4ever

[DJB]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I'd be seeking to bring in a vet and to trade to do it if necessary. Jake Matthews is my target. Him at LT. Dawkins at LG. Morse at C. Bates at RG. I'll try and draft a right tackle. 

Fair enough but a difficult task for sure

[LabattBlue]

Two years ago they passed on Creed Humphrey.  Last year Tyler Linderbaum.  I am not sure if it is Beane or McD behind the aversion to fixing the IOL, but they need to stop with the dumpster diving. It is not working!

 

You have below average OG’s, and an OC whose concussion history is frightening. Then factor in a tub of goo at LT, and a project at RT.  
 

If I am Allen, I am pissed.  The only gift he should be giving them at Christmas is “OL Play for Dummies”. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by LabattBlue

[Marcus Aurelius]

Is Beane overrated?

My Goodness I think so ...

[LABILLBACKER]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The biggest liability on this team two years straight - offensive line play.

Actually it's probably closer to 5 years straight.  McD has completely ignored the OL during his tenure while we watch yearly defensive acquisitions blow.

[Nextmanup]

17 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Image if we had a couple of all pro linemen how much Allen would destroy the league. 

It's not that simple, but I agree we need to upgrade the line.

 

You're assuming Josh would turn extra time into completions.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

It's not that simple, but I agree we need to upgrade the line.

 

You're assuming Josh would turn extra time into completions.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

 

With no time he had nearly 4300 yards passing what do you want him to do shoot for 5000? 

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

With no time he had nearly 4300 yards passing what do you want him to do shoot for 5000? 

With more time, he probably could do 5,000 , that’s the amazing thing. 

[Dr.Sack]

Any idea what having 3 OL who grade out in the 80s could do for the 2 lower graded OL? 

 

In other words LT 85, LG 60, C 85, RG 60, RT 85. Just so long as the LG & RG could hold up, could their C help make them a bit stouter, or could pulling T's make a double that much more effective. To me the OL cannot have two weak links connected. The LT, RT & C are the most important spots. You can get just average 70s production from competent drafting of college OL.

[Freak-O]

21 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

One of the worst in the league, good job Beane and McDermott.  Every bit of this failure is on them.  They obviously can't evaluate and draft talent.  Look no further than Ford and letting Teller go

And every bit of the success the team has had since they took over is also on them. 

[Chaos]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

It's not that simple, but I agree we need to upgrade the line.

 

You're assuming Josh would turn extra time into completions.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

 

There must be statisitics on his passer rating with a clean pocket.  Pretty easy to extrapolate from that.