Who is your choice for DC?

[Sargent Hulka]

16 minutes ago, Rico said:

One thing’s for sure, I don’t want Eric Washington, this genius hasn’t done a damn thing with all these draft picks.

Another damn Brendan Beane Carolina connection. That, in and of itself, says this regime cannot think outside the box.

[BarleyNY]

38 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

The real question is — will McDermott be willing to play a defensive scheme other than his own Cover 2, zone heavy scheme that doesn’t work against good offenses?

 

If he’s unwilling to change, we will end up with another Leslie Frazier who is probably less experienced and talented than Leslie Frazier.

I agree. Except I think he has been running mostly Cover 3. 

[Mango]

32 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

1. We play way more 3 and Quarters than we do true Cover 2.

2. The Eagles aren't having any issues stopping good offenses running the exact same scheme.

 

I get it, fans over-react and want to point blame at someone. We got beat in the trenches on both sides of the ball. You can't overcome that regardless of the scheme.

 

I think there is room to upgrade/replace both coordinators. 

But I am really frustrated with the FO that we are in this position. I just don't get how we got so tight against the cap and so many draft picks that have just been role players. We can replace all the coordinators we want, but it doesn't change the fact that we have neglected WR and OL for 4 years and gotten no return on a billion draft picks spent on DL. 

 

[BuffaloBills1998]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Leslie Frazier's contract is now up and if McDermott and Beane are smart, he will not be resigned. I personally would like Vic Fangio. He had solid defenses in San Francisco and Chicago when he was with both teams. He's older but would be one of my top choices

Fangio’s scheme is 3-4 also he’s interviewing in Miami today

[LifeLongBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Wade

I would love to have Wade back!  3-4 

[Heavy Kevi]

Just now, HoofHearted said:

That's every scheme my guy. If you don't win in the trenches you don't win period.

Teams can be successful without all elite players. And finding an all-elite defensive line is not gonna happen quickly either.

 

But your narrative........................... Somehow seems to be that we need to keep everything the same but we (magically?) Turn our D-line into studs? I don't see how that makes you right and me wrong🤔

 

Maybe we are both wrong idk... And I get you want to defend your position, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. And it's no better than mine.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

No defensive “guru” is coming here. You don’t see those hires when your HC is a defensive coach. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

Greg Williams....bounty gate 2.0

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Im

good with McDermott being the DC. I just can’t deal with Fraizer again 

[John from Riverside]

45 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

The real question is — will McDermott be willing to play a defensive scheme other than his own Cover 2, zone heavy scheme that doesn’t work against good offenses?

 

If he’s unwilling to change, we will end up with another Leslie Frazier who is probably less experienced and talented than Leslie Frazier.

All this talk of this doesn’t work and that doesn’t work
 

This team went 13 and three this year, with a very competitive schedule in the regular season

 

The real question that needs to be asked is what happened to us in this last game because they came out flat ass. *****.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

51 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

Me.

 

Can I be your assistant? or assistant to assistant?  

[jahnyc]

If Frazier does leave, I think the new DC would be Eric Washington.  He did not have success in Carolina as the DC, so I would be concerned if he was the choice.

[HoofHearted]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

On the surface-  that’s true, but the basis of Fangios D is cover 2 shell to prevent big plays.  His tinkering up front with different looks and stunts keeps the O second guessing.  He plays a lot of 4-3 under
 

Looking at our personnel, I don’t think it’s a 3 year fix.  Ed (who might be gone anyway)and Rousseau can both play 3-4 end.  Hell, Rousseau might be able to play SLB too.  Basham and AJ are JAGS and won’t be on the team in 2-3 years.  Von is at his best playing 3-4 OLB.  
 

getting a DC of his caliber is well worth a year or two of figuring things out.  Our best SB window is closed.  We’ll have many chances in the future, but next year isn’t a do or die season imo.  Josh has several more seasons.  Let’s right the ship NOW and retool with coaches that have the ability to win us a title.  Fangio is the best in the business and worth an off year or 2 in the defensive side of the ball.  It’s not like our defense ever comes to play when we need them to

Which is exactly what we do now, but out of a four man front. Run a bunch of stunts/games up front and disguise (when we have our guys who have been in the system healthy) coverages on the back end. When those vets go out it limits what we can do as far as pre-snap alignments to disguise looks. Our defensive line is built around creating penetration, not holding gaps like Fangio's system requires. It would need to be a wholesale change in that room in order for his scheme to work.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

All this talk of this doesn’t work and that doesn’t work
 

This team went 13 and three this year, with a very competitive schedule in the regular season

 

The real question that needs to be asked is what happened to us in this last game because they came out flat ass. *****.

 

After the Jets game, the Bills won 8 straight.  But they could have just as easily lost all 8.  For a team with SB dreams, they should have been able to have won at least some weeks easily.  It's not just the last game.

 

So while I agree with you the team did win 13 games, it's also a bit suspect as to how they won them all and would be worried that they could repeat that without more bigger changes.  Think the truth is somewhere in between.

[dpberr]

#1:  Joe Whitt Jr. (Cowboys, DPC)

#2:  Deshea Townsend (Jaguars, DPC, Cornerbacks)

 

Generally, I'm looking for the motivated, hungry assistant that has a track record in effectively defending the passing game.

 

I don't want a DC with a strategy that has been long figured out.  (Jim Schwartz)  

 

I think the Bills have plenty of talent on defense.  I'd invest in strategy over new players.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

Leslie Frazier's contract is now up and if McDermott and Beane are smart, he will not be resigned. I personally would like Vic Fangio. He had solid defenses in San Francisco and Chicago when he was with both teams. He's older but would be one of my top choices

 

TBH, I haven't been tracking the duration of Leslie Frazier's contract, much less who is available.

It's a very good question

 

I do know that I do NOT want any coach who has been predominantly coaching a 3-4 scheme because I don't want to see us take the several years it would take to change personnel.

 

So by this light, Joe Whitt from the Cowboys maybe OK because they run a 4-3 (and I think, a lot of nickle) but the Jags I'm pretty sure are a 3-4 team - we saw that movie before.

 

5 minutes ago, dpberr said:

#1:  Joe Whitt Jr. (Cowboys, DPC)

#2:  Deshea Townsend (Jaguars, DPC, Cornerbacks)

 

Generally, I'm looking for the motivated, hungry assistant that has a track record in effectively defending the passing game.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Beck Water

[Mopreme]

They will likely promote within. Eric Washington or John Butler would be my guess. I prefer an outsider with a different scheme. 

[HoofHearted]

9 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Teams can be successful without all elite players. And finding an all-elite defensive line is not gonna happen quickly either.

 

But your narrative........................... Somehow seems to be that we need to keep everything the same but we (magically?) Turn our D-line into studs? I don't see how that makes you right and me wrong🤔

 

Maybe we are both wrong idk... And I get you want to defend your position, but that's just, like, your opinion, man. And it's no better than mine.

 

I never said you needed all-elite defensive line. You do need to be able to hold up against the run and be able to rush the passer. When Daquon is not in we get gashed in the run game because we have guys who just penetrate and create lanes instead of holding gap integrity. When Von went out our pass rush disappeared. This isn't something earth shattering - we haven't been good in either category since Schwartz was the DC - but that's not a scheme issue it's a personnel issue.

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

All this talk of this doesn’t work and that doesn’t work
 

This team went 13 and three this year, with a very competitive schedule in the regular season

 

The real question that needs to be asked is what happened to us in this last game because they came out flat ass. *****.

One simple thing - we got punched in the mouth and just took it. We lost the game in the trenches. There was zero push by either offensive or defensively line in the run game and we allowed the Bengals to affect our QB more than we affected theirs. This game isn't complicated. If you can't win in the trenches you can't win the game.

[BillsVet]

53 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Again, the Eagles aren't having any problems running the same defensive scheme. The difference is they have DUDES across their defensive line and we don't.

 

Resources in the draft and UFA have been devoted for several seasons now on the DL.  Lots of money spent there overseen by the HC.

 

As to the run defense, it began unraveling mid-season when they had everyone good  in the front 7:

 

Game 7 vs. GB: 208 yards on 31 carries

Game 8 at NYJ: 174 yards on 34 carries

Game 9 vs. MIN: 147 yards on 25 carries

Game 14 vs MIA: 188 yards on 25 carries

 

Something is amiss in how they run this scheme, which is irksome considering how much they invest there and supposed depth.  Many teams may run that scheme, but it doesn't require a 8-9 man DL rotation like McD's does.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by BillsVet

[BuffaloBills1998]

What about Kris Richard? Not too long ago he was touted as a HC candidate and he was apart of the legion of boom defense in Seattle. 

[Marcus Aurelius]

58 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Rob Ryan, The players loved the guy

Typo ... he meant Rob Reiner.

Perhaps he can get the Defensive 11 to go past 11 ...

 

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I never said you needed all-elite defensive line. You do need to be able to hold up against the run and be able to rush the passer. When Daquon is not in we get gashed in the run game because we have guys who just penetrate and create lanes instead of holding gap integrity. When Von went out our pass rush disappeared. This isn't something earth shattering - we haven't been good in either category since Schwartz was the DC - but that's not a scheme issue it's a personnel issue.

One simple thing - we got punched in the mouth and just took it. We lost the game in the trenches. There was zero push by either offensive or defensively line in the run game and we allowed the Bengals to affect our QB more than we affected theirs. This game isn't complicated. If you can't win in the trenches you can't win the game.

Totally agree with that, but why did it happen? Didn’t really happen to us all season long during the regular season
 

In my opinion, and I guess I’m gonna go to the grave with it. I believe this team was emotionally spent what happened to Hamlin was devastating. And while some think that it was inspirational for him to be around the team after the tragic event, I think it cost the team and focus. I also think that it caused the team. of this is the game right before it in Miami that team came out at the beginning of that game and looked absolutely dominant and then fell straight flat and barely won the game. I think they were just used up. Emotionally I mean how many times in your life do you see a teammate die on the field and then have to be resuscitated

 

[frostbitmic]

Somebody that can teach professional football players how to tackle would be a good hire. Tackling has been sub par for a couple seasons now.

 

Somebody who doesn't run a passive defense that allows WR's to roam free.

 

Somebody who is more creative than running the nickel defense on seemingly every play ... mix it up a little, especially against teams that run the ball well.

 

If Somebody exists, hire him... Perfect timing for Frazier's contract to come to an end, time to go in another direction.

[HappyDays]

This is inexcusable:

 

Frazier's defense is great in the regular season but it is not built for playoff football. Might be time to get a new voice in the room 

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

I never said you needed all-elite defensive line. You do need to be able to hold up against the run and be able to rush the passer. When Daquon is not in we get gashed in the run game because we have guys who just penetrate and create lanes instead of holding gap integrity. When Von went out our pass rush disappeared. This isn't something earth shattering - we haven't been good in either category since Schwartz was the DC - but that's not a scheme issue it's a personnel issue.

One simple thing - we got punched in the mouth and just took it. We lost the game in the trenches. There was zero push by either offensive or defensively line in the run game and we allowed the Bengals to affect our QB more than we affected theirs. This game isn't complicated. If you can't win in the trenches you can't win the game.

 

One perception (or misperception) that I have, is that McDermott/Frazier's scheme depends upon having a couple of key pieces.

 

One is the piece Star Lotulelei was supposed to be but wasn't, but DaQuan Jones was, this season: the huge man who can hold the point of attack and move it back to anchor.  Those guys seem hard to find, and hard to have capable backups for.  Tim Settle was not that guy.

 

The other perception I have is that a lot of the run gashing occurred because the Bengals (like the Dolphins) used motion to pull our guys out of position and we didn't make the appropriate adjustments.  Maybe that works with guys who can complete each other's sentences like Poyer and Hyde, but when you get down to 2nd and 3rd string it just doesn't.

 

I don't know.  Part of me says we just lost too many guys and had too many playing hurt to be effective, and part of me says we've been solved and don't have a counter.

 

I do think it's a significant gap for Leslie Frazier that, unlike Lou Anarumo, he doesn't seem well able to adjust in-game

[davefan66]

I’m for whoever coaches up the defensive line to play to their potential.  Provide consistent pressure up front, helps the defensive backs do their jobs.  First couple games this year showed that.
 

That is contingent on aggressive play by the defensive backfield. No longer play 10 yards off the WR. Hit them coming off the line.

[HoofHearted]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Resources in the draft and UFA have been devoted for several seasons now on the DL.  Lots of money spent there overseen by the HC.

 

As to the run defense, it began unraveling mid-season when they had everyone aside in the front 7:

 

Game 7 vs. GB: 208 yards on 31 carries

Game 8 at NYJ: 174 yards on 34 carries

Game 9 vs. MIN: 147 yards on 25 carries

Game 14 vs MIA: 188 yards on 25 carries

 

Something is amiss in how they run this scheme, which is irksome considering how much they invest there and supposed depth.  Many teams may run that scheme, but it doesn't require a 8-9 man DL rotation like McD's does.  

You are correct, there's been lots of money and draft capital spent on the DL over the years, and the issues haven't been resolved. That's where the gripes on this board should be. As far as the run defense during that span - those teams were all running a bunch of gap scheme against us and having a ton of success because our defensive line wasn't playing gap sound. They'd either get reached or run themselves out of the play by getting washed, but DaQuon was about the only one who consistently commanded a double team and was able to hold it. This was compounded by a bunch of young guys on the backend either not triggering fast enough or miss-fitting the run - mostly Bernard/Jaquan Johnson. I posted about a lot of the issues during that stretch.

 

The rotation is a McDermott philosophical thing which I get in principle, but it seems like too many times in key situations our "dudes" aren't the ones out on the field.

[BILLSINATL]

My bet is Steve Wilks and he brings Luke Kuechly as LB coach. Carolina connection. 

[HoofHearted]

9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Totally agree with that, but why did it happen? Didn’t really happen to us all season long during the regular season
 

In my opinion, and I guess I’m gonna go to the grave with it. I believe this team was emotionally spent what happened to Hamlin was devastating. And while some think that it was inspirational for him to be around the team after the tragic event, I think it cost the team and focus. I also think that it caused the team. of this is the game right before it in Miami that team came out at the beginning of that game and looked absolutely dominant and then fell straight flat and barely won the game. I think they were just used up. Emotionally I mean how many times in your life do you see a teammate die on the field and then have to be resuscitated

 

Our offensive line has been an issue all year long that has been masked somewhat by what Josh Allen can ad-lib. Our defensive line, for the most part are penetrators (smaller/agile/quicker), who do not hold up at the point of attack if they get engaged. Jordan Phillips, for example, has this persona on here of being a plugger - he's not - he's just a 340lb. penetrating defensive linemen who gets too tall often and gets moved because of it. Our guys admitted to it after the Packers game - they all have a pass rush mentality. Working pass rush moves vs the run gets you beat.

[Sherlock Holmes]

5 minutes ago, BILLSINATL said:

My bet is Steve Wilks and he brings Luke Kuechly as LB coach. Carolina connection. 

***** it just make Kuechly DC!!

[HoofHearted]

15 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

One perception (or misperception) that I have, is that McDermott/Frazier's scheme depends upon having a couple of key pieces.

 

One is the piece Star Lotulelei was supposed to be but wasn't, but DaQuan Jones was, this season: the huge man who can hold the point of attack and move it back to anchor.  Those guys seem hard to find, and hard to have capable backups for.  Tim Settle was not that guy.

 

The other perception I have is that a lot of the run gashing occurred because the Bengals (like the Dolphins) used motion to pull our guys out of position and we didn't make the appropriate adjustments.  Maybe that works with guys who can complete each other's sentences like Poyer and Hyde, but when you get down to 2nd and 3rd string it just doesn't.

 

I don't know.  Part of me says we just lost too many guys and had too many playing hurt to be effective, and part of me says we've been solved and don't have a counter.

 

I do think it's a significant gap for Leslie Frazier that, unlike Lou Anarumo, he doesn't seem well able to adjust in-game

I don't agree with this. You can see the adjustments that were made throughout the game. We started off playing a lot of zone coverage and relying on our front 4 to get home. After those first two series we switched up to playing more Cover 1 and bringing an extra rusher. Started playing some 2 Man in obvious passing situations. Then switched to playing true 0 and bringing the house in key situations. None of it worked because we couldn't win up front.

 

Adjustments are being made in every game - it's hard to recognize if you don't know what you're looking for - but they're definitely being made.

[Reed83HOF]

55 minutes ago, NewEra said:

On the surface-  that’s true, but the basis of Fangios D is cover 2 shell to prevent big plays.  His tinkering up front with different looks and stunts keeps the O second guessing.  He plays a lot of 4-3 under
 

Looking at our personnel, I don’t think it’s a 3 year fix.  Ed (who might be gone anyway)and Rousseau can both play 3-4 end.  Hell, Rousseau might be able to play SLB too.  Basham and AJ are JAGS and won’t be on the team in 2-3 years.  Von is at his best playing 3-4 OLB.  
 

getting a DC of his caliber is well worth a year or two of figuring things out.  Our best SB window is closed.  We’ll have many chances in the future, but next year isn’t a do or die season imo.  Josh has several more seasons.  Let’s right the ship NOW and retool with coaches that have the ability to win us a title.  Fangio is the best in the business and worth an off year or 2 in the defensive side of the ball.  It’s not like our defense ever comes to play when we need them to

This is pretty much where I am at,  the UFA WR class is not good and I don't expect whoever any of our draft choices are to start or contribute in a meaningful way in season 1. 

 

we arent narrowing rhe gap between KC or Cin this offseason and the teams below us who are close to catching us will be closer. If there is a season to take a flyer to retool and clean some cap up, this one might be it. I don't want to spin wheels.

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

Rob Ryan, The players loved the guy

 

 

I do not know whether to laugh or to seek to do harm to you for making this statement.  I guess laughing is the least juvenile response so I will go with that.

 

 

[dma0034]

Leonhard or Fangio for me.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

I really like Greg Williams CB coach of the Arizona Cardinals, He has done a great job with very little to work with in the secondary so he should have no trouble with our group imo.

[Beast]

It would be someone promoted from within that knows the players and continues with what McDermott clearly wants.

 

McDermott is not going to hire a guy that has his own ideas and wants to implement his own defense.

[BillsFanSD]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

I really like Greg Williams CB coach of the Arizona Cardinals, He has done a great job with very little to work with in the secondary so he should have no trouble with our group imo.

I don't know anything about this person, but he spells his first name correctly so that's a very good first step.  Works for me.

[Rico]

9 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

***** it just make Kuechly DC!!

Maybe Wilks, he has some fire.

Have no use for Kuechly though.

[HoofHearted]

16 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

I’m for whoever coaches up the defensive line to play to their potential.  Provide consistent pressure up front, helps the defensive backs do their jobs.  First couple games this year showed that.
 

That is contingent on aggressive play by the defensive backfield. No longer play 10 yards off the WR. Hit them coming off the line.

I don't think a lot of people recognize how contingent that is on who you have in at those Safety positions. Losing Hyde hurt - there was considerable drop off with Jaquon Johnson in there - Demar started coming into his own when he took it over and you saw improvements in what we could call and how we could disguise looks each week but then he went out. If you're not a starter you're hardly getting any reps - it forces your hand to play more vanilla when you are having to start guys who don't regularly get reps throughout the week.

[Reed83HOF]

29 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Resources in the draft and UFA have been devoted for several seasons now on the DL.  Lots of money spent there overseen by the HC.

 

As to the run defense, it began unraveling mid-season when they had everyone good  in the front 7:

 

Game 7 vs. GB: 208 yards on 31 carries

Game 8 at NYJ: 174 yards on 34 carries

Game 9 vs. MIN: 147 yards on 25 carries

Game 14 vs MIA: 188 yards on 25 carries

 

Something is amiss in how they run this scheme, which is irksome considering how much they invest there and supposed depth.  Many teams may run that scheme, but it doesn't require a 8-9 man DL rotation like McD's does.  

The results of the DL rotations have not been good enought to justify the investment there, at least with the investments we have made amd the lack of development of the players. I'm not sure if it is simple as coaching or just missing on the evaluations and looking for intangibles and scheme fits....