Bills WR Route Concepts in Our Offense

[Warriorspikes51]

Perhaps I am imagining things or ignorant.

But it seems to me that we almost never run quick inside slants toward the middle of the field? 

I only remember us doing it often in the Rams game with lots of quick passing

Most of our throws are to the numbers or near the sideline.   

Diggs has shown he is elite on slants.

What exactly do you suppose the reason is for our offense having so many longer developing plays?

 

Perhaps we will see this as a new wrinkle for the playoffs

 

[Don Otreply]

Outside of Diggs who’s catching those passes? It would help if Dorsey incorporated Smoke into the offense with more frequency, amongst other more imaginative usage of our current personnel, jmo…, imo, we don’t do the things that were successful when the fat guy was our OC, which is somewhat frustrating to be honest. 

[ClemsonBills]

I really think our offense is about to open up. We have seen great play calling through stretches of the season followed by horrendous out of sync play calling. The only rationale I can come up with is they are about to unleash all of it these next few weeks. Dorsey is still learning, but this offense did not have to be creative to make the playoffs this year. But they need to be creative to win a superbowl. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Also....screens to Hines and Cook please. 

[whorlnut]

I think a lot has to do with personnel. Beasley was elite at working the middle of the field and getting open. It doesn’t seem Davis is good at running routes and McKenzie is limited. I believe Allen isn’t totally comfortable with anyone outside of Diggs and maybe knox. 

[Lost]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Outside of Diggs who’s catching those passes? 

 

This was Beasley's bread and butter while he was playing..

[Don Otreply]

Just now, Lost said:

 

This was Beasley's bread and butter while he was playing..

But Dorsey isn’t using him…, 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

We do runs slants. They are just called as RPOs. Diggs and Davis have caught them. What is missing is Beasley caught many of them in the past but they are not getting that production from the current group of slot WRs. 

[Lost]

13 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Perhaps I am imagining things or ignorant.

But it seems to me that we almost never run quick inside slants toward the middle of the field? 

I only remember us doing it often in the Rams game with lots of quick passing

Most of our throws are to the numbers or near the sideline.   

Diggs has shown he is elite on slants.

What exactly do you suppose the reason is for our offense having so many longer developing plays?

 

Perhaps we will see this as a new wrinkle for the playoffs

 

 

I've been asking question since the bye week.   They had a gameplan that worked great early in the season.  Josh wasn't holding the ball for more than 3 seconds in those first few games.   Then they just abandoned it for some reason.

 

I know Josh likes the deep ball but you keep scorching teams with the short game you'll eventually get those 1on1 matchups outside which Josh is good at identifying.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Lost

[dollars 2 donuts]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I think a lot has to do with personnel. Beasley was elite at working the middle of the field and getting open. It doesn’t seem Davis is good at running routes and McKenzie is limited. I believe Allen isn’t totally comfortable with anyone outside of Diggs and maybe knox. 

 

 

That's why I still think there is a place for Beasley during these playoffs.  He has only been back for a bit.  I honestly think he can help*.

 

 

(* I didn't say lead..."help")

 

 

[GolfandBills]

10 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Perhaps I am imagining things or ignorant.

But it seems to me that we almost never run quick inside slants toward the middle of the field? 

I only remember us doing it often in the Rams game with lots of quick passing

Most of our throws are to the numbers or near the sideline.   

Diggs has shown he is elite on slants.

What exactly do you suppose the reason is for our offense having so many longer developing plays?

 

Perhaps we will see this as a new wrinkle for the playoffs

 

Because teams sit back and flood passing lanes against us almost every snap.  

[clayboy54]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Perhaps I am imagining things or ignorant.

But it seems to me that we almost never run quick inside slants toward the middle of the field? 

I only remember us doing it often in the Rams game with lots of quick passing

Most of our throws are to the numbers or near the sideline.   

Diggs has shown he is elite on slants.

What exactly do you suppose the reason is for our offense having so many longer developing plays?

 

Perhaps we will see this as a new wrinkle for the playoffs

 

While none of us know what Dorsey has been thinking, I do expect to see a package of all the plays that have worked this season. I also expect to see far less "experimental" plays because he now knows if they will work or if they will not. Plus, we've seen the Dolphins twice already. There are no more secrets come playoff time.

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

That's why I still think there is a place for Beasley during these playoffs.  He has only been back for a bit.  I honestly think he can help*.

 

 

(* I didn't say lead..."help")

 

 

A long with Smoke, those two could “help” if they were on the field and being targeted from time to time…, 

[ddaryl]

slants on a timing route should be capable from any WR you just have to be able to catch it with litte time to prepare.. Its a timing route... Now if our WRs are incapable of getting off the line and into the route quick enough then we have a totally new issue in scheme or WR incapable of beating the defender at the snap.

yes I have been wondering about those quick slants for a few years with Allen at the helm.

The other thing is Allen isn't the most reliable with quick timing patterns and he does need to continue to improve here because like what has been said, this is necessity to get opposing Ds to adjust some.

[Eastport bills]

McKenzie has regressed and has become undependable on slants. Davis gets targets underneath but has struggled with drops. We’re doing check downs with Motor and Cook that are getting good 1st and 2nd down yardage. I would expect more Hines and Cook flares and underneath crossers in the playoffs along with Knox stretching the defense against LBs. If Davis steps it up and Cole gets more targets we’ll be really hard to defend. Remember these teams have to use safeties as spies to defend Josh runs. His off schedule throws when he’s flushed can get us 2 or 3 chunk plays like the Smoke and Diggs TDs.

[Beck Water]

38 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Also....screens to Hines and Cook please. 

 

I mean, I'm all for the screen game.

 

But when have the Bills been able to run a conventional (not a bubble) screen in, like, the last 4 seasons?  There have been threads about this.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

36 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

A long with Smoke, those two could “help” if they were on the field and being targeted from time to time…, 

 

 

Don...my goodness that catch by Brown was so gorgeous.  I'm sorry, I just love replaying it on video and in my head. 

 

One...it takes just one of those to total mess with the head of a DC. 

 

If Allen started to hit Beas on just a couple of slants, ad then you have Diggs and Smoke on the sides, and Cook and Motor as valves...oh boy.

 

[flmike]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

But Dorsey isn’t using him…, 

Beas must be having stone hands in practice or something...

5 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I mean, I'm all for the screen game.

 

But when have the Bills been able to run a conventional (not a bubble) screen in, like, the last 4 seasons?  There have been threads about this.

 

We don't have the OL for it and Josh is not the best on the short stuff.

[Da webster guy]

A lot of time defenses against Josh have a spy whose job is to take away that throw.  It's probably the only thing you can really do as a spy without losing contain on #17, take away the short middle or tip the intermediate middle.

[Da webster guy]

5 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Don...my goodness that catch by Brown was so gorgeous.  I'm sorry, I just love replaying it on video and in my head. 

 

One...it takes just one of those to total mess with the head of a DC. 

 

If Allen started to hit Beas on just a couple of slants, ad then you have Diggs and Smoke on the sides, and Cook and Motor as valves...oh boy.

 

Both catch and the throw by Josh was hilariously good he was running as he launched that one.

Eric Wood said the angle from the booth he was certain it was way past Smoke but that wily old speed demon somehow got his mitts on it AND controlled in on the ground slam which is just as hard as catching it in the first place.

 

If you really think about that route, its one you might never see again, a deep cross/comeback/go route.  Only a mobile qb can give a receiver the 5+ seconds it takes to pull that one off.  The ability to buy 2 extra seconds for your targets to separate once in awhile has been the difference between a win and a loss for us several times.  Mahomes was about to beat us doing just that before Von dropped him and ended the game in KC this year.

[freddyjj]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

But it seems to me that we almost never run quick inside slants toward the middle of the field? 

 

someone runs one on every RPO - usually Diggs

[The Wiz]

15 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

A lot of time defenses against Josh have a spy whose job is to take away that throw.  It's probably the only thing you can really do as a spy without losing contain on #17, take away the short middle or tip the intermediate middle.

Exactly, the middle of the field was really only ever open when Beasley was able to find the soft spots in the past between the spy and the other defenders in zone.

 

They don't have a quick strike in stride slant over the middle because most teams just leave a guy sitting in the middle of the field watching Josh.

Edited January 10, 2023 by The Wiz

[Green Lightning]

7 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Also....screens to Hines and Cook please. 

Dorsey can't even spell "screen" much less scheme one. 

[coloradobillsfan]

Since we're talking WR concepts, are we actually going to use Shakir during the playoffs?

[StHustle]

I have a strong feeling Dorsey will switch things up in the playoffs

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I mean, I'm all for the screen game.

 

But when have the Bills been able to run a conventional (not a bubble) screen in, like, the last 4 seasons?  There have been threads about this.

 

Dorsey  .... Has he even practiced them ? Does Kromer have something against pulling guards and or Morse ?
It just feels like they want Josh to throw downfield on every play until that cant. Then do something different, and then start the cycle again

[fasteddie]

From what I have seen, Allen is not the most accurate qb in throwing slants. His passes are usually behind or low to the receiver. The receiver usually has to stop or slow down to catch it. I think his recent elbow problems have exacerbated the inaccuracy. He seems to have fewer problems throwing the long passes, but it seems he is in real pain trying to throw the fastball. 

[Solomon Grundy]

As far as routes, someone explain to me why on many occasions this season are McKenzie and Davis routinely in the same area when passes arrive. It happened again in the 1st quarter of the Patriots game when Davis caught the ball down at the 2 yd line. McKenzie was there too. Looks to me like McKenzie is running the wrong route

[Old Coot]

Someone ran the wrong route.  You never design a play to have receivers in the same area.

 

Coule be that someone ran the wrong designed route or they ran option routes & one of them misread the coverage.

[Manther]

59 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

As far as routes, someone explain to me why on many occasions this season are McKenzie and Davis routinely in the same area when passes arrive. It happened again in the 1st quarter of the Patriots game when Davis caught the ball down at the 2 yd line. McKenzie was there too. Looks to me like McKenzie is running the wrong route

Interesting.  I have seen that more than we should.  I don't have the answer, but, interesting.

[TFBillsfan]

18 minutes ago, Manther said:

Interesting.  I have seen that more than we should.  I don't have the answer, but, interesting.

I’ve thought that same thing too often this season. For whatever reason it’s involved Davis and McKenzie. Not sure why were not utilizing McKenzie, Knox and Hines more on short crossing routes. That’s an easy matchup for them.  Hard to argue though when they’ve been winning. For those thinking Dorsey has some tricks up his sleeve come playoff time, I’m not holding my breath.

 

Quite frankly, I’d rather see them stop the RZ turnovers instead of thinking we need a trick play. The Bills MUST execute better and eliminate the head scratching self inflicted mistakes. Do that  and they can go toe to toe with anyone.

Edited January 11, 2023 by TFBillsfan

[Protocal69]

12 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Don...my goodness that catch by Brown was so gorgeous.  I'm sorry, I just love replaying it on video and in my head. 

 

One...it takes just one of those to total mess with the head of a DC. 

 

If Allen started to hit Beas on just a couple of slants, ad then you have Diggs and Smoke on the sides, and Cook and Motor as valves...oh boy.

 

Cover 1 showed that the pass to Brown was initially covered but as soon as Josh directed Brown to the open green INSTANTLY brown turned up field for the bomb. I think Josh is all the way back now. He showed great footwork and patience in the pocket and was very comfortable 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

13 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Also....screens to Hines and Cook please. 

Dorsey gave some generic answer about developing/expanding Hines' role in the offense today. 

 

I don't expect any changes at this point. 

 

The Bills dabbled with him once or twice in the first few games he was here, and he did take a dump off for a touchdown. 

 

But Playoffs? 

 

I expect this to be the Singletary and Cook show. 

 

I also expect John Brown and Cole Beasley are the ones elevated on game day. 

 

I don't think they'll do anything with Jordan Phillips, but he has a significant shoulder issue, and it's not smart to keep rotating him in as if he's healthy. You know other OCs are seeing that in the film room and will look to exploit if possible. 

[Freddie's Dead]

13 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Also....screens to Hines and Cook please. 

 

Screens?  Shirley you can't be serious, this is the Bills, after all.  In another thread, someone mentioned that we haven't run a successful RB screen since Fred Jackson in 2014.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 hours ago, fasteddie said:

From what I have seen, Allen is not the most accurate qb in throwing slants. His passes are usually behind or low to the receiver. The receiver usually has to stop or slow down to catch it. I think his recent elbow problems have exacerbated the inaccuracy. He seems to have fewer problems throwing the long passes, but it seems he is in real pain trying to throw the fastball. 

Dorsey said today that Josh's elbow is full-go with no limitations on any type of throw. 

 

In the Bengals game there was no sleeve, no long shirt over top, no tape. 

[John from Riverside]

I know a lot of people think that it is a waste of time, but I would like to see the running game be incorporated more, especially now that James Cook is starting to find his footing
 

Running the ball does more than just keep a balanced offense it runs clock whenever you have leads, it keeps good offenses on the sideline, twiddling their thumbs and putting pressure on them, which can often lead to turnovers

 

Would love to see James Cook Inc. more into what we do they’ve been ramping him up slowly, but I think he’s ready

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I know a lot of people think that it is a waste of time, but I would like to see the running game be incorporated more, especially now that James Cook is starting to find his footing
 

Running the ball does more than just keep a balanced offense it runs clock whenever you have leads, it keeps good offenses on the sideline, twiddling their thumbs and putting pressure on them, which can often lead to turnovers

 

Would love to see James Cook Inc. more into what we do they’ve been ramping him up slowly, but I think he’s ready

Notice that WGR is not banging that drum as hard. 

 

I bang on the media for their lack of any real football questions, but give it to Mookie Hawkins for continuing to ask Dorsey why the running backs don't get more carries when they are averaging 5.0+ ypc.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, TFBillsfan said:

I’ve thought that same thing too often this season. For whatever reason it’s involved Davis and McKenzie. Not sure why were not utilizing McKenzie, Knox and Hines more on short crossing routes. That’s an easy matchup for them.  Hard to argue though when they’ve been winning. For those thinking Dorsey has some tricks up his sleeve come playoff time, I’m not holding my breath.

 

Quite frankly, I’d rather see them stop the RZ turnovers instead of thinking we need a trick play. The Bills MUST execute better and eliminate the head scratching self inflicted mistakes. Do that  and they can go toe to toe with anyone.

Just my opinion, I just just don’t think the Bills think the drag to McKenzie is a high ROI play.

 

And Hines, I’d just be more on the shocked side if the Bills start putting him in the slot because it means that Diggs, Beasley and McKenzie won’t be there unless they flex to 4-wide ala 2020 empty set and gun.

 

I can see Hines getting 1 carry in the Playoffs, maybe in the form of a toss-play. 

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I know a lot of people think that it is a waste of time, but I would like to see the running game be incorporated more, especially now that James Cook is starting to find his footing
 

Running the ball does more than just keep a balanced offense it runs clock whenever you have leads, it keeps good offenses on the sideline, twiddling their thumbs and putting pressure on them, which can often lead to turnovers

 

Would love to see James Cook Inc. more into what we do they’ve been ramping him up slowly, but I think he’s ready

They had Cook split out wide on the INT late in the first half. He cut back across the middle of the field and was wide open, would have easily gotten the first down. Not sure why he was never noticed, but he’s up for it.

 

[Manther]

10 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

I’ve thought that same thing too often this season. For whatever reason it’s involved Davis and McKenzie. Not sure why were not utilizing McKenzie, Knox and Hines more on short crossing routes. That’s an easy matchup for them.  Hard to argue though when they’ve been winning. For those thinking Dorsey has some tricks up his sleeve come playoff time, I’m not holding my breath.

 

Quite frankly, I’d rather see them stop the RZ turnovers instead of thinking we need a trick play. The Bills MUST execute better and eliminate the head scratching self inflicted mistakes. Do that  and they can go toe to toe with anyone.

Agree with all, all being...

 

1.  Why not more short crossing routes, especially with McKenzie, Hines and Knox

2.  Dorsey and holding back for the playoffs, I am hopeful, but also not holding my breath

3.  RZ turnovers need to stop.  Most of them aren't even close and are head scratching

 

Go Bills, let's get this done!