Panthers request to interview Dorsey for HC

[Mrbojanglezs]

McDermott is a great leader but we should have hired an offensive coach. This will be an issue almost every year 

[Process]

2 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

McDermott is a great leader but we should have hired an offensive coach. This will be an issue almost every year 

Mahomes has it so good

[C.Biscuit97]

I would hate that hire as a Panthers fan (all 12 of them). I think he has done some good things and is growing in the job. But it’s one to inherit raw Allen like Daboll did and help him become the player he is. It’s another to inherit this version of Allen.

 

it’s like Nate Hackett. Dude kinda has sucked as an OC everywhere (EJ’s rookie OC (and his first nfl OC job), EJ never had a chance!).  But he worked with Rodgers and gets a head coaching job. Who won’t be good in that situation?

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I would hate that hire as a Panthers fan (all 12 of them). I think he has done some good things and is growing in the job. But it’s one to inherit raw Allen like Daboll did and help him become the player he is. It’s another to inherit this version of Allen.

 

it’s like Nate Hackett. Dude kinda has sucked as an OC everywhere (EJ’s rookie OC (and his first nfl OC job), EJ never had a chance!).  But he worked with Rodgers and gets a head coaching job. Who won’t be good in that situation?

 

Nate didn't even call plays in Green Bay. He made the coffee in the offensive meeting rooms real well though. 

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I'm pretty sure he did have an offer from an undesirable team. 

 

Not sure about that but he did turn down interviews. Certainly with Philly. Not sure he turned down a job offer though. I find that hard to believe. 

[gjv]

44 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

It’s McD’s system, if Frazier leaves someone else will adequately fill in. Actually, some here want McD to take control of the reins now, especially for the playoffs. The talent on the field matters more and I’d happily take the TWO 3rd round draft choices in a heartbeat if Frazier were to leave. It’s my hope.
 

You say there’s not a single 3rd round draft pick that comes close in value to Leslie Frazier. Not a single one? What about a young Russell Wilson on a cost controlled contract? No? Well how about Tyrann Matheiu? Ty Hilton, Navarro Bowman, Justin Houston, Alvin Kamara, Frank Gore, Marshall Yanda, Jason Witten, Steve Smith Sr., none of those 3rd round draft choices are close in value to coach Leslie Frazier? Sure, the pick could be another Zack Moss, but there are most certainly gems in the 3rd round whose value exceeds a coordinator. 

Not so sure it's McD's system;https://www.buffalobills.com/news/a-defensive-mind-how-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-crafted-a-modern-nfl-defense-while- Sure some want him to leave but  that's an opinion that lacks a basis from a performace standpoint . Cheery picking 3rd round pick pro bowlers is cute, but it doesn't change the fact that most 3rd round players do not become pro bowlers. Most, unfortunately follow in career path of Moss. Frazier, this season, has had on average 5 starters out most games and his defense ranks in the top 10. Not to mention that since he's been DC, the Bills have been a top 10 defense in the NFL. But I guess outstanding DC are just hanging around so we can get one to adequately fill in.

[ColoradoBills]

Dorsey aside I'm just going to comment on the rules for acquiring a new HC.

 

An NFL OC is the 2nd highest coaching position in football.  A good/smart team develops their own if at all possible.

When a team promoted a new OC and after the contract is signed, I think having that coach eligible to get selected by

another team is a disservice to the NFL as a whole.

 

These new OCs need to develop just like any other player or coach.  Too many of these young guys get these jobs too quick

and it's a negative for both teams.  The team that spends all that time developing the coaching talent gets the shaft and the

acquiring team gets a coach that is not seasoned enough to have a fair chance of actually performing well.

There should be a minimum time (at least 2 or 3 years) before that should be allowed.  An exception could be made if the team

wants to trade for the talent.

 

As to the "only 32 jobs" thing that gets constantly brought up I see no problem, as every season there is a number of HC open positions.

Of course, this should apply to the DC too.

The current NFL HC carousel is starting to get a little foolish IMO.

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nate didn't even call plays in Green Bay. He made the coffee in the offensive meeting rooms real well though. 

More like Nate brews a mean pot of ayahuasca tea. All organic, of course. Nate's primary qualification in getting hired in Denver was "Aaron Rodgers homeboy." Once Rodgers decided to take the bag in GB, the Broncos were hosed.

[Just in Atlanta]

They were inspired by Jeff Saturday. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, gjv said:

Not so sure it's McD's system;https://www.buffalobills.com/news/a-defensive-mind-how-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-crafted-a-modern-nfl-defense-while- Sure some want him to leave but  that's an opinion that lacks a basis from a performace standpoint . Cheery picking 3rd round pick pro bowlers is cute, but it doesn't change the fact that most 3rd round players do not become pro bowlers. Most, unfortunately follow in career path of Moss. Frazier, this season, has had on average 5 starters out most games and his defense ranks in the top 10. Not to mention that since he's been DC, the Bills have been a top 10 defense in the NFL. But I guess outstanding DC are just hanging around so we can get one to adequately fill in.

 

Agree with this although it is still, at its core, McDermott's system. I think he trusts Leslie totally, they have known each other for a long time... but if Leslie turned up tomorrow and said I wanna run a 3-4, heavy blitz defense with lots of man coverage Sean would tell him where he could go..... they both learnt under Jim Johnson and are at heart cover 3 guys. Leslie then spent time under Dungy in the Tampa 2 as well and the Bills are a bit of a hybrid between the two so there is some Leslie fingerprints on the scheme. And I'm sure a new DC would be allowed to do the same too once Sean trusted him. But at it is core this defense is Sean McDermott's scheme and his principles. 

[Brand J]

46 minutes ago, gjv said:

Not so sure it's McD's system;https://www.buffalobills.com/news/a-defensive-mind-how-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-crafted-a-modern-nfl-defense-while- Sure some want him to leave but  that's an opinion that lacks a basis from a performace standpoint . Cheery picking 3rd round pick pro bowlers is cute, but it doesn't change the fact that most 3rd round players do not become pro bowlers. Most, unfortunately follow in career path of Moss. Frazier, this season, has had on average 5 starters out most games and his defense ranks in the top 10. Not to mention that since he's been DC, the Bills have been a top 10 defense in the NFL. But I guess outstanding DC are just hanging around so we can get one to adequately fill in.

Never did I suggest that most 3rd rounders become pro bowl or Hall of Fame type players. I even suggested it’s more likely they’d become Zack Moss than Frank Gore/Jamal Charles/Alvin Kamara, etc., but you said there’s no 3rd rounders who would have value that exceeds Leslie Frazier, so I then pulled those 3rd rounders to refute your argument. It wasn’t “cute,” you gave me that latitude with your statement of absolutes.
 

Frazier has done okay considering the amount of players that have been injured, but to suggest he’s irreplaceable when he’s running the head coach’s defensive system is crazy. Yes, I would take the two 3rd rounders if it means Frazier is picked by some other team to become their head coach. I’d welcome it. Does he do more with less? That’s the mark of a great coordinator and when the Bills have been at nearly 100% health they’ve still come up short on defense in the playoffs when it matters. You can cling onto that top 10 ranking, but it means nothing if we can’t slow down the better offenses. Already we’re talking about how the offense will have to score at least 30 pts every game this post season for a chance to win the Lombardi. But if Frazier is as irreplaceable as you seem to think he is, this shouldn’t be the case.

[UKBillFan]

Dorsey isn't ready yet. Just one example is the final offensive series before the half on Sunday - we blitzed them on the run, made the red zone and then threw three times rather than continuing what worked. ending in an interception. It's those kinds of calls which we've seen all season and shows he still has much to learn. He'd be better off staying at Orchard Park with the likes of Brady and Kromer, learning on the job.

[Peter]

Wait a minute.

 

I remember people on this board claiming with 100% certainty that Dorsey's reaction after the first Dolphins game would ruin his chances of becoming a head coach.

 

 

[DCofNC]

20 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

This is beyond nonsensical.

No, it’s fact.  Look at the teams with sustained success, they score points.  Their system doesn’t change, it doesn’t change because the head coach is an offensive coach so the system doesn’t leave with a coordinator.  If Bienemy finally lands a HC job, will KC suffer? Nope, Reid is the mastermind.  Look at what happened every time a coordinator left in Pittsburgh all the years of Big Ben, the Packers with Rodgers, etc.  Now what happens when a coordinator leaves the Rams, the Chiefs, the Payton era Saints etc?  Nothing, it doesn’t matter because the O runs through the stable link.

[quinnearlysghost88]

10 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

GMFB this morning was joking about how you won't see or hear from Kingsbury for a long time. He's going on a vacation for a loonnnnnng time. 

 

He may coach again, but to me it sounds like he is quite comfortable laying low for a while 

I believe it. I was listening to his interview on pardon my take and he just seems like the anti coach. In a good way. But definitely a guy that’s not afraid to walk away. 

[Kiva]

We should hire someone from the Chiefs/Reid tree. 

[RocCityRoller]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:33 PM, LeGOATski said:

If Dorsey leaves, Brady probably steps in and another will come up in the pipeline behind him. I'd be surprised if they brought in an outsider.

Why is everyone forgetting Mike Shula???

1 hour ago, Kiva said:

We should hire someone from the Chiefs/Reid tree. 

 

McDermott is from the Reid/ Eagles tree

[OZBILLS]

7 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Dorsey isn't ready yet.

 

He most certainly is ready, and I will not hear otherwise!

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

No, it’s fact.  Look at the teams with sustained success, they score points.  Their system doesn’t change, it doesn’t change because the head coach is an offensive coach so the system doesn’t leave with a coordinator.  If Bienemy finally lands a HC job, will KC suffer? Nope, Reid is the mastermind.  Look at what happened every time a coordinator left in Pittsburgh all the years of Big Ben, the Packers with Rodgers, etc.  Now what happens when a coordinator leaves the Rams, the Chiefs, the Payton era Saints etc?  Nothing, it doesn’t matter because the O runs through the stable link.

 

The Bills will never have an issue attracting top OC talent as long as Josh Allen is here. And we aren't ever going to radically change the type of offense we run. If we have to replace our OC every 2-3 years the next OC will know Allen's strengths and will basically just work with him to run the same type of offense. Case in point we went from Daboll to Dorsey and really didn't miss a beat on offense. By some metrics our offense is actually much better than last year.

[LeGOATski]

17 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Can't forget they have Mike Shula too, the elder statesman.

 

2 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Why is everyone forgetting Mike Shula???

You're talking to the guy who mentioned Shula in this very thread!

[TheBrownBear]

6 hours ago, DCofNC said:

No, it’s fact.  Look at the teams with sustained success, they score points.  Their system doesn’t change, it doesn’t change because the head coach is an offensive coach so the system doesn’t leave with a coordinator.  If Bienemy finally lands a HC job, will KC suffer? Nope, Reid is the mastermind.  Look at what happened every time a coordinator left in Pittsburgh all the years of Big Ben, the Packers with Rodgers, etc.  Now what happens when a coordinator leaves the Rams, the Chiefs, the Payton era Saints etc?  Nothing, it doesn’t matter because the O runs through the stable link.

More nonsense.  

 

Also, the "stable link" is called the franchise quarterback.  It's why defensive head coaches like Belichick, Tomlin and Tony Dungy routinely fielded top-5 offenses on their way to multiple Super Bowl appearances and the Hall of Fame (eventually).

[Donuts and Doritos]

Great. A distraction for the OC to take his eye off the ball as he preps for a playoff game. Hope he can walk & chew gum at the same time.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Peter said:

Wait a minute.

 

I remember people on this board claiming with 100% certainty that Dorsey's reaction after the first Dolphins game would ruin his chances of becoming a head coach.

 

No I think you misremember. 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Look at what happened every time a coordinator left in Pittsburgh all the years of Big Ben, the Packers with Rodgers, etc.  Now what happens when a coordinator leaves the Rams, the Chiefs, the Payton era Saints etc?  Nothing, it doesn’t matter because the O runs through the stable link.

 

Yea Big Ben kept piling up the yards and points and both of Aaron Rodgers Head Coaches were offensive guys who have called plays. What matters is do you have good coaches or bad coaches. What happened when Brady went from Charlie Weiss to Josh McDaniels to Bill O'Brien back to Josh McDaniels? 

 

There is absolutely nothing that suggests you have to have an offensive Head Coach to have sustained offensive success. Just a false narrative created by people who don't like McDermott. 

[CEN-CAL17]

Honestly I love McDermott…

 

But this team revolves around Josh Allen. Right when I feel like we need to be doing more offensively, building around Josh, getting more creativity, finding ways advance this offense…. We are talking about potentially restarting the offense. Talking about Joe Brady who was a disaster in Carolina(bad QB play of course)….

 

I just feel like JA isn’t getting younger and we just continue to ask him to do more. I just look at Mahomes situation with Reid, I look at Minnesota… Kirk Cousins situation under O’Connell, I mean what if Josh was in Miami right now? Look what McVay did with Stafford. Look what Shanahan does with every QB he gets…. Siriani has Hurts in the MVP conversation in 2 short years…. And we are talking Joe Brady for Josh Allen, potentially the best QB talent in the league.

 

Ask yourself… would Joe Burrow be Joe Burrow with Joe Brady? He’s got Zac Taylor. I’m just questioning and playing the what if. Cause I see it all over the league knowing Josh is equally, if not more talented than any QB in the league 

 

Love McDermott just feels like it won’t get us a Super Bowl. IMO I just think Josh needs a Super Bowl caliber offensive mind calling the plays. Vs Josh, go make a play!

 

Im all in this playoffs, but if we are eliminated I think a lot of fans will agree with me.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by CEN-CAL17

[MAJBobby]

I really don’t think he would be 1 and Done. But very well could. I think he has HC interviews last year too. 
 

Brady or Shula would be in line to replace 

[Warriorspikes51]

This shouldn't be allowed. Wait until a team's season is over

[MAJBobby]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:09 PM, streetkings01 said:

And fired after they become HC’s just like Brady.

First one. Has his team in the playoffs with little talent on Offense and Daniel Jones at QB?  Just Saying

[PetermansRedemption]

5 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

This shouldn't be allowed. Wait until a team's season is over

No idea why it’s allowed. Just wait until the season is over to start interviewing coaches. Why make playoff teams deal with an added distraction. If I was a playoff team I’d deny every request. If they really want the guy they can interview him after we are eliminated or win the Super Bowl. 

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, PetermansRedemption said:

No idea why it’s allowed. Just wait until the season is over to start interviewing coaches. Why make playoff teams deal with an added distraction. If I was a playoff team I’d deny every request. If they really want the guy they can interview him after we are eliminated or win the Super Bowl. 

Coaches argued it was costing them opportunities to advance. Teams were under pressure for HCs to put a staff together and would move on from candidates if their team continued on in the playoffs. That’s why these interviews are allowed. 

[Scott7975]

I dont really think he is going to get a HC job this soon.

[DCofNC]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea Big Ben kept piling up the yards and points and both of Aaron Rodgers Head Coaches were offensive guys who have called plays. What matters is do you have good coaches or bad coaches. What happened when Brady went from Charlie Weiss to Josh McDaniels to Bill O'Brien back to Josh McDaniels? 

 

There is absolutely nothing that suggests you have to have an offensive Head Coach to have sustained offensive success. Just a false narrative created by people who don't like McDermott. 

Ben struggled with a lot of OCs, and the system has never changed under Bellicheck, he’s got his grubby paws all over that offensive scheme. Rodgers has definitely had struggles with some OCs as well.  The key is not having to start over every 2 years because your QB makes OCs look great.  Obviously, you love McD, whatever, but he’s never going to be what makes this team great, that’s JA and to keep improving, you want to refine your game, not have to learn a new system every other year.

[3rdnlng]

Promoting Coordinators to Head Coach positions based on their success on one side of the ball is the likely definition of The Peter Principle. The Head Coach is an executive. Coordinators lean more towards being technocrats and have not generally proven that they have the leadership and executive skills to be a Head Coach. 

[Augie]

8 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

No idea why it’s allowed. Just wait until the season is over to start interviewing coaches. Why make playoff teams deal with an added distraction. If I was a playoff team I’d deny every request. If they really want the guy they can interview him after we are eliminated or win the Super Bowl. 

 

While I generally agree with this, too many positions get filled before the Super Bowl takes place. You don’t want a reputation of holding your staff back when they have opportunities. If you’re on a good team you will never get first crack at the best jobs. I think the only solution may be to make EVERYBODY wait until after the season to start hiring or officially interviewing. 

 

You WANT your coaches getting poached because that’s a sign of success. Interviewing Dorsey, or any coach, before their season ends is a distraction I don’t like at all. On the plus side, assuming he ever grows into HC material, the interview experience is one he can learn from. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Ben struggled with a lot of OCs, and the system has never changed under Bellicheck, he’s got his grubby paws all over that offensive scheme. Rodgers has definitely had struggles with some OCs as well.  The key is not having to start over every 2 years because your QB makes OCs look great.  Obviously, you love McD, whatever, but he’s never going to be what makes this team great, that’s JA and to keep improving, you want to refine your game, not have to learn a new system every other year.

 

I mean you are saying things that are simply wrong. Which years did Ben "struggle" with a new OC?

 

Was it when Bruce Arians was hired in 2007 and Ben jumped from 18 touchdowns to 32 and had what remined a career high passer rating?

 

Or maybe when Todd Haley was hired in 2012 and his touchdowns, completion % and passer rating went up while his interceptions came down on the previous year?

 

Or was it when Randy Fitchner took over in 2018 and Ben had a career high in yards? 

 

No. It was none of those. The only time a new OC took over and Ben struggled was 2021 with Matt Canada and he struggled because he was finished and retired at the season's end not because of any issues with the offense.

 

And Aaron Rodgers has had three OCs in his career in Green Bay - Joe Philbin, Nathaniel Hackett and Adam Stenovich. None of whom have ever called plays. Mike McCarthy and Matt LaFleur have been his play callers (but for a period the year McCarthy was fired where the QB coach called them). So either he is a terrible example or what he actually proves if having an Offensive Head Coach and keeping the offense the same isn't the magic bullet you claim. 

 

But feel free to keep making stuff up to try and support your flawed conclusions.

[Fan in Chicago]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I think you misremember. 

I also remember what he remembers. 

9 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

No idea why it’s allowed. Just wait until the season is over to start interviewing coaches. Why make playoff teams deal with an added distraction. If I was a playoff team I’d deny every request. If they really want the guy they can interview him after we are eliminated or win the Super Bowl. 

That would be detrimental to the overall hiring process and unfair to the candidates. Either each team can start interviews only after the SB or no one can.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

I also remember what he remembers. 

 

Then you also misremember. Nobody ever said this will stop Ken Dorsey being a Head Coach. What was said is if you react that way consistently and demonstrate that lack of control that will count against you with owners. Nobody wants to hire a guy who lacks emotional control to a leadership position.

[Fan in Chicago]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then you also misremember. Nobody ever said this will stop Ken Dorsey being a Head Coach. What was said is if you react that way consistently and demonstrate that lack of control that will count against you with owners. Nobody wants to hire a guy who lacks emotional control to a leadership position.

Semantics. You are also indirectly saying that his meltdown would count against him. 

I believe that's what he is saying too. I don't think it would be a show stopper but all things being otherwise equal with another candidate, his past tantrum would cause the other guy/gal to get the job 

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Semantics. You are also indirectly saying that his meltdown would count against him. 

I believe that's what he is saying too. I don't think it would be a show stopper but all things being otherwise equal with another candidate, his past tantrum would cause the other guy/gal to get the job 

 

No, not semantics. A different meaning. As a one off, people can look past it. But it was a bad look and if you behave like that consistently then absolutely it counts against you. Leadership is about control. 

[Fan in Chicago]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No, not semantics. A different meaning. As a one off, people can look past it. But it was a bad look and if you behave like that consistently then absolutely it counts against you. Leadership is about control. 

I feel we are arguing for the sake of it. My position is not too different from yours.

I am out of this discussion. 

[JTown]

This really disturbs me.  Irregardless who they want to interview,  it is s distraction.   Same BS last year.  How the NFL allows interviewing candidates that are still in contention is not rational.   These individuals need to focus on game planning and preparation for Sunday. 

 

The NFL is just incredibly stupid. 

 

I imagine that a team could call him back for a follow-up or second interview next week when he needs to be focused on our next opponent.