Gregory Rousseau is becoming elite

[947]

I hope Von still runs his Pass Rush Summit this year. Groot & our other DEs need that work.

[BBills_88]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

You can add a more whole bunch of different moves, but it doesn’t mean anything unless you can dominate your man by using them.   What I am saying….easier said than done. 

That is how you dominate who is in front of you, keep them guessing of what you are going to do, especially in a only passing situation?

[HappyDays]

35 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Funny thing…come playoff time he was MIA, but as long as some fancy stat says he is great value, that is all that matters.  Who cares if the eye test says otherwise. 

 

Give him a chance to develop. He performed worse at the end of the year after an ankle injury and after he started getting more attention because Von wasn't there. 3rd year was always going to be his big step year anyways. He started just 13 games in college and took a year off from football during covid. He will be 23 when the season starts, younger than a lot of rookies will be. So he was never going to hit his ceiling right away. I'm really excited to see him reach his potential and I think we start to see it this year.

[Meatloaf63]

On 1/22/2023 at 10:43 PM, 97bills said:

And who knows what von will be next year.. dude is old and coming off he’s second née injury. And probably want be ready until the end of next year. So yea that contract isn’t looking so good right now. Buffalo brought him end to win it this year, 

Von expects to be read at or near the beginning of the season.

[gobills404]

50 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Funny thing…come playoff time he was MIA, but as long as some fancy stat says he is great value, that is all that matters.  Who cares if the eye test says otherwise. 

The "eye test" from fans who watch games once from the broadcast angle is worth less than nothing

[mikemac2001]

Just now, gobills404 said:

The "eye test" from fans who watch games once from the broadcast angle is worth less than nothing

Ya he did seem MIA but I wasn’t watching the film and breaking him down play by play. Give the guy another off-season to work on his body and technique and go from there. 

[BarleyNY]

44 minutes ago, BBills_88 said:

 

The kid can be better , he can add some different pass rush moves to his bag. Spends, bends, more violent hands, use the OLINE's leverage, bull rushing and speed rush.

 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/greg-rousseau
 

This is really worth looking at. Rousseau has some very good attributes and can do some things very well, but he’s never going to have any bend or be good at change of direction.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Ya he did seem MIA but I wasn’t watching the film and breaking him down play by play. Give the guy another off-season to work on his body and technique and go from there. 

We have no choice but to do this. 

[somnus00]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Give him a chance to develop. He performed worse at the end of the year after an ankle injury and after he started getting more attention because Von wasn't there. 3rd year was always going to be his big step year anyways. He started just 13 games in college and took a year off from football during covid. He will be 23 when the season starts, younger than a lot of rookies will be. So he was never going to hit his ceiling right away. I'm really excited to see him reach his potential and I think we start to see it this year.

And he was recruited to Miami to play as a WR. He converted to DE. That's just nuts. He was always going to be a project, and it does seem like he's developing well. 

[nosejob]

On 12/11/2022 at 9:33 PM, Big Turk said:

He is a force against the run also and sets the edge tremendously well

 

A DE shouldn't be seen chasing down someone headed for the endzone....from a long ways away. Just going off memory from the Cincy game.

 

Also, in 2020 ...or whatever his last year in college was, he was like a half sack or so behind Chase Young?....so pick 30 vs. pick 1?

Edited February 7, 2023 by nosejob

[LABILLBACKER]

56 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Give him a chance to develop. He performed worse at the end of the year after an ankle injury and after he started getting more attention because Von wasn't there. 3rd year was always going to be his big step year anyways. He started just 13 games in college and took a year off from football during covid. He will be 23 when the season starts, younger than a lot of rookies will be. So he was never going to hit his ceiling right away. I'm really excited to see him reach his potential and I think we start to see it this year.

Well I hope you're right. He's the only remaining young DE I have any faith in.  And I'd be lying if I didn't say his performance post Von injury was weak.  I'm expecting a minimum of 10 sacks. Especially if Von plays most of the season.  AJE & Boogie are future cuts.  There's nothing remarkable there to work with. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[Thrivefourfive]

I want him to intercept passes and bat down balls. Don’t be crazy upfield working your way back down the pocket to a quality QB who’s already let the ball go. 

[nosejob]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well I hope you're right. He's the only remaining young DE I have any faith in.  And I'd be lying if I didn't say his performance post Von injury was weak.  I'm expecting a minimum of 10 sacks. Especially if Von plays most of the season.  AJE & Boogie are future cuts.  There's nothing remarkable there to work with. 

How many teams have rotational players who are starters elsewhere? Are we supposed to have 4 Von Millers? Good luck growing old waiting for that. Plus our D.C. is a geriatric statue with no idea how to adapt to anything. I'm amazed at how we performed out of the gate this past year, but the same approach will bury us early this year. Josh can't do it all.

Edited February 7, 2023 by nosejob

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, nosejob said:

How many teams have rotational players who are starters elsewhere? Are we supposed to have 4 Von Millers? Good luck growing old waiting for that.

Why do I want to rotate bad players. Get these guys in better shape so your top front 4 can play 70% of the time.  What is this NBA load management?  I don't see olineman getting rotated like hockey shifts.

[Buffalo Junction]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Well I hope you're right. He's the only remaining young DE I have any faith in.  And I'd be lying if I didn't say his performance post Von injury was weak.  I'm expecting a minimum of 10 sacks. Especially if Von plays most of the season.  AJE & Boogie are future cuts.  There's nothing remarkable there to work with. 

If you take his sack per game percentage and apply it to 17 games instead of the 13 he played then Rousseau was on pace for 10.5 sacks. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Junction said:

If you take his sack per game percentage and apply it to 17 games instead of the 13 he played then Rousseau was on pace for 10.5 sacks. 

And I can live with him and those numbers as my DE2.  But in a couple years when Von is likely gone, don't be surprised to see those double digits disappear.  We failed miserably on AJ & Boogie so as much as this makes me nauseous,  we'll have to keep drafting 1 per year or hope more cap$ gets freed up.  I wish we could afford Chris Jones in a year but I know that's not realistic. 

[John from Riverside]

So now, all of a sudden we’re down on Groot. It’s at where we’re at.

[JaCrispy]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

So now, all of a sudden we’re down on Groot. It’s at where we’re at.

No, I was down on him when we drafted him…there were other more athletically elite DEs on the board…Groot scares no one, unfortunately…

[John from Riverside]

3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

No, I was down on him when we drafted him…there were other more athletically elite DEs on the board…Groot scares no one, unfortunately…

Jesus

[LABILLBACKER]

6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So now, all of a sudden we’re down on Groot. It’s at where we’re at.

We're not down on him. But you also can't ignore his dip in performance w/o Von.  Remember when you draft a player in the last 10-12 picks of the first round,  you're not getting 1st round talent. Every year there's usually only 12-18 true 1st round grades.  I can live with 10-11 sacks over the next 2 seasons as long as Von gets 12+.  If you want elite pass rushers you'll have to pay big bucks. Especially with how terrible our DE scouts are.

[Mr. WEO]

give him another 4 or 5 years.  he's only 18 years old.

[Einstein]

17 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So now, all of a sudden we’re down on Groot. It’s at where we’re at.

 

I think if we’re all being honest we noticed him go back to rookie season Groot when Von went down.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

21 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So now, all of a sudden we’re down on Groot. It’s at where we’re at.

I'm not. He's the only good first rounder the past few drafts

[thenorthremembers]

Going to be honest, I've never been a big believer in developing players.  I suppose to a certain extent a few years in the league and NFL coaching helps players get to their ceiling but I think for the most part, beyond being put in the wrong system or being put in the wrong position, guys who end up being superstars were on the verge of being those guys when they stepped into the league.    For instance when I look at the list of the top ten sack totals I see a bunch of guys who have been at the top of the league since they stepped onto an NFL field.   Outside of Haason Reddick who was playing ILB his 1st 3 years in the league, Alex Highsmith and Josh Sweat who werent immediate full time starters, its a list of guys who have were good from word go.  

 

Do I think some of the issue with our Defensive Ends is our system, yes I do, but I am not expecting anything more from Epenesa, Basham or even Rosseau than we have already seen.   Rosseau is the best of the bunch, but he is still very far from elite.

 

Haason Reddick-19.5

Nick Bosa-18.5

Chris Jones-17.5

Myles Garrett-16.0

Matthew Judon-15.5

Micah Parsons-14.5

Alex Highsmith-14.5

Brian Burns-12.5

Maxx Crosby-12.5

Josh Sweat-12.5

J.J. Watt-12.5

Edited February 8, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[JaCrispy]

20 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Jesus

Sorry but it’s true…he is slow and lumbering imo…

[mikemac2001]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

give him another 4 or 5 years.  he's only 18 years old.

Wrong thread 🤣

[Augie]

1 minute ago, mikemac2001 said:

Wrong thread 🤣

 

He only played one year in middle school???

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said:

Wrong thread 🤣

 

nope.  this is another backdoor Edmunds thread..

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

47 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

And I can live with him and those numbers as my DE2.  But in a couple years when Von is likely gone, don't be surprised to see those double digits disappear.  We failed miserably on AJ & Boogie so as much as this makes me nauseous,  we'll have to keep drafting 1 per year or hope more cap$ gets freed up.  I wish we could afford Chris Jones in a year but I know that's not realistic. 

Rousseau will likely improve next year, and I’d be absolutely content with an 8-10 sack LDE that can fight through doubles to set the edge. He’s on a similar trajectory as Cameron Jordan, so we’ll see. His next step is learning how to win against double teams on pass downs. He looked average at best against the pass when he was the only DL getting focused on with Jones and Oliver out of the rotation.

 

Basham has been a dud so far. No reason he should take enough snaps to keep Rousseau at a 40 something percent snap count. Epenesa I can live with as a 4th DE if he keeps improving as he can at least win some 1 v 1’s. By the end of the season he had 6.5 sacks, 5 PDs, 2 FF, and 7 TFLs. 

[Big Blitz]

Our D line coach should be fired.  
 

[vincec]

Bills desperately need another reliable pass rusher besides Miller (assuming he returns close to his pre-injury form). I had hoped it would be Oliver or Rousseau - both if the Bills got lucky, but it looks like it might be snake eyes instead. They’re both decent players and Rousseau will probably improve a little more, but neither one is the pass rushing force they were looking for or need, IMO.

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

Bills desperately need another reliable pass rusher besides Miller (assuming he returns close to his pre-injury form). I had hoped it would be Oliver or Rousseau - both if the Bills got lucky, but it looks like it might be snake eyes instead. They’re both decent players and Rousseau will probably improve a little more, but neither one is the pass rushing force they were looking for or need, IMO.

 

awful drafting on DL. 

[Mikie2times]

Anybody want to bump my Kyle Williams preseason review where I discussed how I thought he was going to surprise a lot of people? 

We could also unearth some Haloti Ngata, but I think half the wall has one of those threads to bump 

Edited February 8, 2023 by KzooMike

[chongli]

10 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Anybody want to bump my Kyle Williams preseason review where I discussed how I thought he was going to surprise a lot of people? 

We could also unearth some Haloti Ngata, but I think half the wall has one of those threads to bump 

 

Just post a link to that post here so anyone can read it if they so desire. No need to bump.

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Going to be honest, I've never been a big believer in developing players.  I suppose to a certain extent a few years in the league and NFL coaching helps players get to their ceiling but I think for the most part, beyond being put in the wrong system or being put in the wrong position, guys who end up being superstars were on the verge of being those guys when they stepped into the league.    For instance when I look at the list of the top ten sack totals I see a bunch of guys who have been at the top of the league since they stepped onto an NFL field.   Outside of Haason Reddick who was playing ILB his 1st 3 years in the league, Alex Highsmith and Josh Sweat who werent immediate full time starters, its a list of guys who have were good from word go.  

 

Do I think some of the issue with our Defensive Ends is our system, yes I do, but I am not expecting anything more from Epenesa, Basham or even Rosseau than we have already seen.   Rosseau is the best of the bunch, but he is still very far from elite.

 

Haason Reddick-19.5

Nick Bosa-18.5

Chris Jones-17.5

Myles Garrett-16.0

Matthew Judon-15.5

Micah Parsons-14.5

Alex Highsmith-14.5

Brian Burns-12.5

Maxx Crosby-12.5

Josh Sweat-12.5

J.J. Watt-12.5

You have to have player development because draft picks are on cost control contracts. You can only have so many high price free agents on your roster guys. They can rush the passer make bank

[Mikie2times]

28 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Just post a link to that post here so anyone can read it if they so desire. No need to bump.

I was just messing around. This threads not aging well but I hope it will eventually. For humors sake here is the nearly two decade old post I will tell my never to born grandkids about 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by KzooMike

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I think if we’re all being honest we noticed him go back to rookie season Groot when Von went down.

 

 

Or he just didn't recover well enough after the high ankle sprain that sidelined him to have the same impact.

 

Also he was much better early in his rookie year when he was getting more pressure and had the interception of Mahomes in KC than he was later.

 

Next season he needs to put together a full season..........but even if he gets 14-15 sacks he will never impress some fans because his style isn't going to look dynamic........there won't be a lot of bending, leaping or lunging to get his sacks..........he will make lots of simple looking plays(that others don't have the ability to)........and they count the same as dynamic looking ones.

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Going to be honest, I've never been a big believer in developing players.  I suppose to a certain extent a few years in the league and NFL coaching helps players get to their ceiling but I think for the most part, beyond being put in the wrong system or being put in the wrong position, guys who end up being superstars were on the verge of being those guys when they stepped into the league.    For instance when I look at the list of the top ten sack totals I see a bunch of guys who have been at the top of the league since they stepped onto an NFL field.   Outside of Haason Reddick who was playing ILB his 1st 3 years in the league, Alex Highsmith and Josh Sweat who werent immediate full time starters, its a list of guys who have were good from word go.  

 

Do I think some of the issue with our Defensive Ends is our system, yes I do, but I am not expecting anything more from Epenesa, Basham or even Rosseau than we have already seen.   Rosseau is the best of the bunch, but he is still very far from elite.

 

Haason Reddick-19.5

Nick Bosa-18.5

Chris Jones-17.5

Myles Garrett-16.0

Matthew Judon-15.5

Micah Parsons-14.5

Alex Highsmith-14.5

Brian Burns-12.5

Maxx Crosby-12.5

Josh Sweat-12.5

J.J. Watt-12.5

 

 Ok, using your list let's do a bit more fair of a comparison. Total sacks 1st 2 years in the league:

 

Micah Parsons-26.5 

J.J. Watt-26.0

Myles Garrett-20.5

Maxx Crosby-17.0

Brian Burns-16.5

Groot-12.0

Matthew Judon-12.0

Nick Bosa-9.0(Hurt only played in 2 games his 2nd year) 

Chris Jones-8.5

Alex Highsmith-8.0

Haason Reddick-6.5

Josh Sweat-4.0

 

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Ok, using your list let's do a bit more fair of a comparison. Total sacks 1st 2 years in the league:

 

Micah Parsons-26.5 

J.J. Watt-26.0

Myles Garrett-20.5

Maxx Crosby-17.0

Brian Burns-16.5

Groot-12.0

Matthew Judon-12.0

Nick Bosa-9.0(Hurt only played in 2 games his 2nd year) 

Chris Jones-8.5

Alex Highsmith-8.0

Haason Reddick-6.5

Josh Sweat-4.0

 

 

 

Fair enough.   As I said in my original post neither Highsmith or Sweat was a full time starter, Reddick played ILB.  To add to that Chris Jones was a full time Defensive Tackle, now he moves between end and DT.

 

Can you look at that list and honestly tell me you think Rousseau is anywhere near the player Bosa or Chris Jones is? 

Edited February 8, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[Jim]

10 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Give him a chance to develop. He performed worse at the end of the year after an ankle injury and after he started getting more attention because Von wasn't there. 3rd year was always going to be his big step year anyways. He started just 13 games in college and took a year off from football during covid. He will be 23 when the season starts, younger than a lot of rookies will be. So he was never going to hit his ceiling right away. I'm really excited to see him reach his potential and I think we start to see it this year.

When people write stuff like what I bolded above it makes me crazy. I have exactly zero memory of anybody ever saying that “year 3, that’s when Greg Rousseau comes alive!”

 

It is just a bunch of hopeful nonsense. I don’t say this to be mean but it drives me nuts. Instead of drafting to help our QB, we likely wasted four picks on bad to JAGish defensive lineman. 
 

Lastly, this is an old boring take but I do remember watching some of Rousseau’s college “highlights” and it struck me how cheap so many of his sacks seemed (i.e. QB running into him, a long amateurish play resulting in a sack that you’d never see in the NFL, or him grabbing a sack as a result of another player making a big play to open up a sack for him). In retrospect, it kinda reminds me of when I first saw EJ’s college highlights.