Fraizer and McDermott great coaches

[Casey D]

They both suck.  I read it repeatedly in the game time thread.  No revisionist history just because we got a lucky win.

[Shortchaz]

I could argue we were out-coached today in that the game went the way the chiefs wanted THIS game to go. 
 

We fielded the superior team and ultimately won but the chiefs kept us out of the end zone. 

[colin]

I said it in the game thread and I still do: they are great (all three of them so far) coaches 6 days a week but make too many mental errors on game day.  They've improved, and the half time adjustments are getting better and better, but there is a gap between them and the top of the NFL, they can get caught out by coaches w out an answer, sometimes at least.

 

Now, in terms of the other 6 days, no question they are nasty.  Guys come out flying and confident and motivated.

 

Just like how mc coach had to let the zero yard dive in the gut to a slow 30+yo rb go, Frazer needs to figure out some situations, Dorsey needs to get the redzons right, and mcb needs to get the time out and challenge stuff down.

 

Have seen improvement at least!

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

I could argue we were out-coached today in that the game went the way the chiefs wanted THIS game to go. 
 

We fielded the superior team and ultimately won but the chiefs kept us out of the end zone. 

You could, but that would be a dumb argument.

[TheCockSportif]

I'll start with Moss not playing.  That was excellent in and of itself.

[Bangarang]

17 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

I could argue we were out-coached today in that the game went the way the chiefs wanted THIS game to go. 
 

We fielded the superior team and ultimately won but the chiefs kept us out of the end zone. 

What the ***** are you even talking about?

[Shortchaz]

Just now, Bangarang said:

What the ***** are you even talking about?

40 plays, 10 points, our first half….

[Malazan]

Just now, Shortchaz said:

40 plays, 10 points, our first half….

 

I'm not sure the NFL is for you. Have you thought about mini-golf?

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Shortchaz said:

40 plays, 10 points, our first half….

Are you being dense on purpose?

[Coach Tuesday]

Ok but can we politely ask Dorsey to call forward runs on 3rd and 1?

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Are you being dense on purpose?

I’m sorry, nuance isn’t for everyone. 
 

I’m sure McDermott out-coached Reid because the bills won. (That better?) 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Posters wanted McD and Beane fired in the first half of last game too.

 

Its unbelievably stupid how fast people turn on our great staff and FO in a game.  

Always remember; 

The median IQ in America is 100…,  realize, half of all Americans have an IQ under 100, 

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Dablitzkrieg]

mcD dropping F bombs.  We are winning it all

 

 

[Real McClappy]

28 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

I could argue we were out-coached today in that the game went the way the chiefs wanted THIS game to go. 
 

We fielded the superior team and ultimately won but the chiefs kept us out of the end zone. 

You mean Mckenzie kept us out of the end zone more?

[Shortchaz]

1 minute ago, Real McNasty said:

You mean Mckenzie kept us out of the end zone more?

Yes, that too. 

[Real McClappy]

1 minute ago, Shortchaz said:

Yes, that too. 

I got your point overall. 

The Bills were a better team today on O and D.  Now lets do it again during the playoffs at home.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said:

Agreed.

 

But they still need to learn how to close out 13 seconds😂

It’s not realistic for a FG to have a high % chance from 62 tho, into the breeze…and sure enough he missed on the next try from 51? That said, I definitely was having bad flashbacks heartburn ❤️‍🔥 😂

[HunTim]

Both Frazier and McDermott are excellent, we are blessed to have them.

 

The jury is still out on Dorsey, but the early returns are also excellent, bearing in mind his lack of play calling experience.

[JY422]

1 hour ago, Kenosha2Buffalo said:

 

I said it about 3 times today, at least. Saw Shakir return the punt and thought he was done... Puzzled afterwards. Tells you how much they trust our guys if anything 

Shakir IS the punt returner. 
since crowder was hurt. 
mcK has not been the punt returner at all this season. 

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

15 minutes ago, JY422 said:

Shakir IS the punt returner. 
since crowder was hurt. 
mcK has not been the punt returner at all this season. 

 

Thanks for the clarification sir

[Aussie Joe]

Was impressed with the D in the last quarter...

 

Stopped them the last three times they had the ball... held then to 3 points total.. 

 

Bills were robbed on that no call when  JA was tripped.. could have already had the game wrapped up

[Einstein]

Great coaches.

 

As i’ve always said.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Shortchaz said:

I’m sorry, nuance isn’t for everyone. 
 

I’m sure McDermott out-coached Reid because the bills won. (That better?) 

 

Imagine going out of your way to make this silly argument and then doubling down on it. 

[Shortchaz]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Imagine going out of your way to make this silly argument and then doubling down on it. 

It’s not a silly argument. I feel like KC had less to work with but took the bills to the wire.
 

Sorry I don’t feel like our coaching staff is elite and beyond criticism. 

 

Usually when being critical of an argument one would offer a counter. 
 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

3 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

I could argue we were out-coached today in that the game went the way the chiefs wanted THIS game to go. 
 

We fielded the superior team and ultimately won but the chiefs kept us out of the end zone. 

Im not sure that’s the game they wanted…if you told anyone we’d have 100+ rushing yards there’s no shot they were picking the chiefs. Chiefs couldn’t run the ball at all on us really despite us playing a good amount of 2 deep safety looks.  The game they wanted was to rip off some big runs and force a safety into the box 

 

they match up pretty well against us while our offensive line continues to figure stuff out on the fly…Chris jones might be the best player in the league so far this year.  It’s not a glamor position but the KC offensive line has been far better than ours so far this season.  Factoring all that in I don’t think we fielded a team that was sufficiently better than theirs to the point where we could get outcoached and win 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Bangarang]

44 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

It’s not a silly argument. I feel like KC had less to work with but took the bills to the wire.
 

Sorry I don’t feel like our coaching staff is elite and beyond criticism. 

 

Usually when being critical of an argument one would offer a counter. 
 

A counter to what? All you’ve said is you don’t like our coaching staff because…reasons?

 

You say KC had less to work with but have you looked at our injury reports since week 1? To get to the BYE week 5-1 despite all the injuries we’ve had to key players is a credit to the coaching staff you apparently don’t like. 
 

There’s no substance to your argument. You’re playing devils advocate in such a troll way that it’s not even worth going any further with you. 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, Shortchaz said:

40 plays, 10 points, our first half….

Well it’s a good thing there’s 2 halves

1 hour ago, Shortchaz said:

It’s not a silly argument. I feel like KC had less to work with but took the bills to the wire.
 

Sorry I don’t feel like our coaching staff is elite and beyond criticism. 

 

Usually when being critical of an argument one would offer a counter. 
 

The Chiefs have been rolling over every team they played this year except for the Colts we played a good team today we beat a good team today

[Lfod]

I've never thought different but I can understand the bandwagon fans being fickle. 

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Imagine going out of your way to make this silly argument and then doubling down on it. 

 

Sort of putting a second bullet in a gun for Russian roulette because it was not fast enough.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 hours ago, Freak-O said:

Frazier looks like a really intense lizard when he’s standing on the sideline. 

He’s our intense lizard 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Last I checked it still counted for 3 points.  And they got there in 2 plays again.  This time in 1 second less than last time.  

 

That wasnt on Frazier.  That was on the missed tackle in the open field that not only would have wasted time/a timeout but kept them needing more yards.  The guy whiffed the tackle and the receiver got like 10 more yards and got out of bounds.

[Shortchaz]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Im not sure that’s the game they wanted…if you told anyone we’d have 100+ rushing yards there’s no shot they were picking the chiefs. Chiefs couldn’t run the ball at all on us really despite us playing a good amount of 2 deep safety looks.  The game they wanted was to rip off some big runs and force a safety into the box 

 

they match up pretty well against us while our offensive line continues to figure stuff out on the fly…Chris jones might be the best player in the league so far this year.  It’s not a glamor position but the KC offensive line has been far better than ours so far this season.  Factoring all that in I don’t think we fielded a team that was sufficiently better than theirs to the point where we could get outcoached and win 

I agree with much of what you say, just disagree on the last bit.
 

I don’t think the margins are wide between the two teams but we are superior, especially the teams/players that played yesterday. The chiefs have been winning games 30-25 the bills have been winning games 30-15….and the bills were far healthier yesterday. 
 

It felt like the chiefs game plan on defense was to just keep us out of the end zone and it worked for the most part. I felt our offense could move the ball at will but shot itself in the foot with poor red zone play calling (execution would be the other argument). we had first and goal at the 10, ran for 7 yards on first, then passed 3 times for 0 yards and turned the ball over. We ran a running play on third and one from shotgun (running back has zero forward momentum when they receive the handoff In shotgun). Our first 3 drives were 31 plays and 3 points.

 

had things gone a little differently I think the bills would’ve won this game by a wide margin.

 

this is the first time in the recent rivalry between the two teams I felt we had the more talented team.

 

who knows, maybe it was just home field advantage that kept it close. 
 

I like our staff, I just feel like the talent is capable of more and underperformed in this game primarily because they were out-schemed. Thank god for two pretty insane drives by josh. 
 

we suffer a little because the coaching staff is gaining necessary experience rather than already posses it

Edited October 17, 2022 by Shortchaz

[Shortchaz]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

A counter to what? All you’ve said is you don’t like our coaching staff because…reasons?

 

You say KC had less to work with but have you looked at our injury reports since week 1? To get to the BYE week 5-1 despite all the injuries we’ve had to key players is a credit to the coaching staff you apparently don’t like. 
 

There’s no substance to your argument. You’re playing devils advocate in such a troll way that it’s not even worth going any further with you. 

Like I said, nuance isn’t for everyone and hard to do in this forum. To make it more difficult people will conflate what is, what could be, and what should be. 
 

I agree the staff deserves credit for having the team at 5-1 with the injuries we’ve had.

 

I also believe the staff was out-schemed, especially true of their defense vs our offense. Our defense did a solid/good job and I thought our kickoff team was outstanding. 
 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Shortchaz

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Ok but can we politely ask Dorsey to call forward runs on 3rd and 1?

 

I thought Dorsey was the one of our key guys who was outcoached today. It took him too long to adjust to the blitz packages Spags was sending and as soon as he did and you saw Josh hit those two go routes against the young DBs as if by magic the Chiefs had to back off on the blitzing. I also hate on the eventual game winning drive giving it to Singletary on 2nd and 3rd down and ending up needing Josh to sneak on 4th. I know the run game was pretty productive for us yesterday, especially in the first half, and I don't mind them leaning on it in those circumstances. But when the game is on the line in a big spot in the game that could decide home field in January you are going to have a hard time convincing me that it is smart to take the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. 

 

But Dorsey is still a new coordinator. He is still learning and adjusting too and Spags has confused many a better guy than he over the years. So I'm not going to overreact. This was a learning experience. Let's hope he does indeed learn from it. 

 

1 hour ago, Shortchaz said:

I like our staff, I just feel like the talent is capable of more and underperformed in this game primarily because they were out-schemed. Thank god for two pretty insane drives by josh. 
 

we suffer a little because the coaching staff is gaining necessary experience rather than already posses it

 

Only on offense were we outschemed. Frazier and McDermott won their matchup with Reid and Bienemy and did so pretty handily IMO. We gave up two touchdowns. The first was just bad execution after the scheme had forced Mahomes to throw a ball into triple coverage and short of the sticks on third down and then Taron (villain to hero) Neal and Hamlin whiffed on the tackle. The second was just Mahomes and Kelce being absolutely freaking awesome on a play where the Bills did nothing wrong. Those plays are going to happen sometimes for them just the same as sometimes you can do nothing wrong on defense and Josh Allen will hit a guy like Dawson Knox in the corner of the endzone. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by GunnerBill

[colin]

53 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought Dorsey was the one of our key guys who was outcoached today. It took him too long to adjust to the blitz packages Spags was sending and as soon as he did and you saw Josh hit those two go routes against the young DBs as if by magic the Chiefs had to back off on the blitzing. I also hate on the eventual game winning drive giving it to Singletary on 2nd and 3rd down and ending up needing Josh to sneak on 4th. I know the run game was pretty productive for us yesterday, especially in the first half, and I don't mind them leaning on it in those circumstances. But when the game is on the line in a big spot in the game that could decide home field in January you are going to have a hard time convincing me that it is smart to take the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. 

 

But Dorsey is still a new coordinator. He is still learning and adjusting too and Spags has confused many a better guy than he over the years. So I'm not going to overreact. This was a learning experience. Let's hope he does indeed learn from it. 

 

 

Only on offense were we outschemed. Frazier and McDermott won their matchup with Reid and Bienemy and did so pretty handily IMO. We gave up two touchdowns. The first was just bad execution after the scheme had forced Mahomes to throw a ball into triple coverage and short of the sticks on third down and then Taron (villain to hero) Neal and Hamlin whiffed on the tackle. The second was just Mahomes and Kelce being absolutely freaking awesome on a play where the Bills did nothing wrong. Those plays are going to happen sometimes for them just the same as sometimes you can do nothing wrong on defense and Josh Allen will hit a guy like Dawson Knox in the corner of the endzone. 

 

Even measured criticism of the coaches will get you flack here after a big win, but you are right.

 

To me the upside is that our RedZone o has been so weak that just a moderate improvement means we might have an all time O.

[Billsforumsucks]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought Dorsey was the one of our key guys who was outcoached today. It took him too long to adjust to the blitz packages Spags was sending and as soon as he did and you saw Josh hit those two go routes against the young DBs as if by magic the Chiefs had to back off on the blitzing. I also hate on the eventual game winning drive giving it to Singletary on 2nd and 3rd down and ending up needing Josh to sneak on 4th. I know the run game was pretty productive for us yesterday, especially in the first half, and I don't mind them leaning on it in those circumstances. But when the game is on the line in a big spot in the game that could decide home field in January you are going to have a hard time convincing me that it is smart to take the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. 

 

But Dorsey is still a new coordinator. He is still learning and adjusting too and Spags has confused many a better guy than he over the years. So I'm not going to overreact. This was a learning experience. Let's hope he does indeed learn from it. 

 

 

Only on offense were we outschemed. Frazier and McDermott won their matchup with Reid and Bienemy and did so pretty handily IMO. We gave up two touchdowns. The first was just bad execution after the scheme had forced Mahomes to throw a ball into triple coverage and short of the sticks on third down and then Taron (villain to hero) Neal and Hamlin whiffed on the tackle. The second was just Mahomes and Kelce being absolutely freaking awesome on a play where the Bills did nothing wrong. Those plays are going to happen sometimes for them just the same as sometimes you can do nothing wrong on defense and Josh Allen will hit a guy like Dawson Knox in the corner of the endzone. 

Love being outschemed and winning the game, can’t make this up. Hope everyone outschemes us the rest of the year.

[Lost]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Luckily I think Leslie is here until retirement.

 

What gives you that impression?   I sincerely hope that's the case but everyone seems to be hyping him up for a HC gig.

[Maynard]

12 hours ago, Freak-O said:

Frazier looks like a really intense lizard when he’s standing on the sideline. 

Haha you nailed it. I worry about his teeth, dude really be grinding. 

[zow2]

Frazier deserves a head coaching gig soon.  I think he's really proven himself and has probably learned a lot from McDermott, Daboll, etc.. to be a better head coach the 2nd time around.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, zow2 said:

Frazier deserves a head coaching gig soon.  I think he's really proven himself and has probably learned a lot from McDermott, Daboll, etc.. to be a better head coach the 2nd time around.

If true, is there an obvious heir apparent as our DC on the current coaching staff?