Big Turk Posted September 29, 2022 Author Share Posted September 29, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: Yes, he looked confused as to whether he was suppose to crack the blitzing defender or block the receiver. Schematically I would guess he was suppose to crack that inside defender (otherwise why short motion him into the box). It also puts us in a really advantageous match-ups for Josh since he'd be reading the corner. The corner would have to honor the crack and slide inside (which he did) which in-turn makes it a keep for Allen and puts him 1 on 1 vs. a corner on a short edge. I'll take that match-up 100% of the time and feel great about it. I see what Dorsey was trying to do there - really good scheme there. It was actually funny because against the Titans Shakir badly missed a short motion block on 4th down and 1 that allowed Byard to get pressure on Allen and cause the incompletion and I was like "If Davis was in there he doesn't miss that block!". I guess now I have to rethink that statement 🤣 Edited September 29, 2022 by Big Turk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 The majority of our run plays have been poor. How many more times do you want Josh to throw it? 63 not enough? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 (edited) The question posed by the OP is an interesting one, and I think it's certainly valid to look into. I'm not totally sure what the answer is. I remember Tom Brady making related comments maybe 4 years ago. He said a lot of QBs in the league run "wasted plays" meaning if they were doing their homework, they should have seen that what they called is not going to work based on what the D is doing, but they don't know that, so they run the play and it becomes a "wasted play" as it had no chance at success and maybe loses 1 yard, no gain, or gains 1 yard... Brady said he "hates" those types of wasted plays and trys to ensure that he never has them. I'm sure, over the long term, that's one of may reasons why he's the best of all time. So is Josh running "wasted plays" and he just doesn't know it yet? How would anyone here know?! He very well might be. I think it is clear and obvious he has gotten better and better at the mental side of the game, and he continues to evolve and get better. As his mental side of the game catches up to his physical talents, he'll only get deadlier and deadlier. Maybe he still has a way to go in pre-snap recognition. Seems logical to me. Edited September 29, 2022 by Nextmanup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Big Turk said: That was an interesting breakdown by Jerry O where he said that was pretty much on the Center for telegraphing the snap count by using the same signal every time. So basically after the guard gives the arm signal, Van Roten quickly turns his head to let the line know he is going to snap it but snaps it immediately after doing so which he had done 3 times in a row allowing Miami defenders to basically time the snap perfectly. He also catches Dawkins off guard because he was looking inside pointing a player to Saffold(as in saying you block him) and when Van Roten snapped it he wasn't even ready for the snap and Ingram blew right past him almost before he was out of his stance before he turned his head back to look at him... Super interesting breakdown by JerryO and he said that he didn't even give the OLine a chance because he is supposed to vary the time he snaps it(ie, not the same time every snap) and also wait at least a second or so for the other players to get ready after he notifies him the snap is coming. He said if he has done that when playing center Fina would have yelled at him the next play in the huddle like WTF are you doing?? How about you just actually watch the game within the game and count the defenders to the left and right of the center and the number of Bills blockers to the left and right of the center. That's why I am asking for someone with All 22 of they can check on this because I don't have it and while it appears to be the case at times, NOT every time, when watching live, sometimes it is hard to pinpoint with 100% accuracy, although it seems to look very similar to that play I posted when it happens(ie the Bills running to the outnumbered blocking side) Sorry if I pay attention to things you didn't even know existed I'm sorry, I didn't realize you had access to the team's play book and knowledge of what audibles are available to Josh. You'll have to excuse my not accepting your "sneaky suspicions" as facts. Likewise, your expert observation of counting hats at the start of the play is less than impressive. My 5 year old grand daughter can do that. You do know that players can move after the snap right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 100% everytime a play doesn't work it's ALL Josh's fault now. Got it. Those other guys getting paid to block & run have nothing to do w/ it. Someone should let McD know, sounds like an easy fix. 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 11 hours ago, pi2000 said: A rare draft mistake by Beane. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, and I understand the need to draft a corner.... but Morse is getting long in the tooth and has a history of missing ample time due to injuury. He takes Elam when Lindebaum (BAL starting C) was available. Then in the 2nd round he picks Cook when Fortner (JAX starting C) was still available. You'd think protecting his massive investment behind center would be a priority. Far from “rare” on Beane’s draft blunders in the early rounds, he makes a lot of questionable ones in all honesty. Kills it late in the draft, pretty puzzling early rounds. Example, could have draft gone, Groot, Creed Humphrey, and had a great start to rebuilding both lines, instead took Boogie, yet another rotational DE. They get entirely too much credit for “ great drafts” when he’s barely found starting talent in the second round because he fixates on need vs best player… or the evaluations are awful.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGFOOTspaceman Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 JA gets all the blame.....ALL OF IT!!!!! Beane needs to find a way to void this anchor of a contract Allen has. He's dumb and can't audible correctly. Bills absolutely missed the boat on Rosen. But its not to late. Dump Allen, sign Rosen! #gettherightJosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 11 hours ago, Big Turk said: So let me preface this by saying that Allen does many many things at an elite level. One thing I think that may be an issue that he can work on though, is helping the Bills run game by making better checks at the line of scrimmage. Has Allen's ability to audible been confirmed? Of course by now given his performance I would expect full control, but QB of Bills past like Tyrod had no leeway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 59 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: The question posed by the OP is an interesting one, and I think it's certainly valid to look into. I'm not totally sure what the answer is. I remember Tom Brady making related comments maybe 4 years ago. He said a lot of QBs in the league run "wasted plays" meaning if they were doing their homework, they should have seen that what they called is not going to work based on what the D is doing, but they don't know that, so they run the play and it becomes a "wasted play" as it had no chance at success and maybe loses 1 yard, no gain, or gains 1 yard... Brady said he "hates" those types of wasted plays and trys to ensure that he never has them. I'm sure, over the long term, that's one of may reasons why he's the best of all time. So is Josh running "wasted plays" and he just doesn't know it yet? How would anyone here know?! He very well might be. I think it is clear and obvious he has gotten better and better at the mental side of the game, and he continues to evolve and get better. As his mental side of the game catches up to his physical talents, he'll only get deadlier and deadlier. Maybe he still has a way to go in pre-snap recognition. Seems logical to me. I believe Allen is regarded (by those that matter) as one of the best QBs in the league in pre snap recognition. I'm sure he gets fooled here and there. Even the best of them do. However, I doubt his inability to see things pre snap he is the reason for the Bills run game problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said: JA gets all the blame.....ALL OF IT!!!!! Beane needs to find a way to void this anchor of a contract Allen has. He's dumb and can't audible correctly. Bills absolutely missed the boat on Rosen. But its not to late. Dump Allen, sign Rosen! #gettherightJosh Might as well retire to the almond ranch. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Has anyone mentioned that sometimes John Fina says the craziest sh*t about football plays? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Many of the top teams in passing efficiency are the top NFL teams at the moment. Yes, a running game is useful and important, but we would much rather have Buffalo be a top tier passing team which they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 The main reason we don't have a successful run game, is because we have the NFL's top offense without it. Even on Sunday (which was easily our worst offensive game of the year), we had 497 yards. Out of the 9 times we had the ball, we drove into scoring position 7 times. Our only punt was on a 30 yard drive that took us to midfield. We only use the run game to keep teams a little off-balance. And for the most part, it's working very well. As a team, we are averaging 4.7 yards per carry. Tied for 9th in the NFL. If you take out Josh Allen's rushing stats, that drops to about 4.2 ypc. Which would be 19th in the NFL, just a shade below the New England Patriots (who are considered one of the league's best teams on the ground). Don't forget the ridiculous injuries to the O-Line too. Spencer Brown missed almost all of training camp and preseason, then went out early in the Dolphins game. Rodger Saffold is new to the team and missed a good chunk of it too. Mitch Morse has been injured for two weeks now. His backup Greg Van Roten replaced him and got hurt too. Ryan Bates got a concussion this week too. Tommy Doyle was forced to play out of position to replace him, but then tore his ACL. It's kind of unfair to criticize the blocking, when this unit has barely gotten a chance to play together yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Allen is the run game. To be fair, sometimes it looks like Singletary could be on the verge but then they'll bring in Moss or Cook and kill whatever momentum he had. I've also seen him take a handoff and either run into Allen or just look like he's frozen for a sec. I noticed that a couple times against the Porpoise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 A little might be on Josh identifying the overload. Some is on Van Roten's early "tell", tipping off the DL. But frankly I don't care what side we run on. We don't have an OL capable of decent run blocking. And we haven't for 3 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 Interesting perspective from Dion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 3 backup linemen playing in the game. One was even a third stringer. pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 3 hours ago, DCofNC said: Far from “rare” on Beane’s draft blunders in the early rounds, he makes a lot of questionable ones in all honesty. Kills it late in the draft, pretty puzzling early rounds. Example, could have draft gone, Groot, Creed Humphrey, and had a great start to rebuilding both lines, instead took Boogie, yet another rotational DE. They get entirely too much credit for “ great drafts” when he’s barely found starting talent in the second round because he fixates on need vs best player… or the evaluations are awful.. Yeah that Basham sucks. Or is your point that as a rookie he was not great? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 I think he checks out of bad pass plays into bad run plays. Even I know that if I hear ALERT or KILL out of his voice, a delayed run up the middle is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: Yeah that Basham sucks. Or is your point that as a rookie he was not great? pretty easy to win when you come in fresh in garbage time vs a team you have been destroying all day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 54 minutes ago, frostbitmic said: Allen is the run game. To be fair, sometimes it looks like Singletary could be on the verge but then they'll bring in Moss or Cook and kill whatever momentum he had. I've also seen him take a handoff and either run into Allen or just look like he's frozen for a sec. I noticed that a couple times against the Porpoise. This as well. I hate the platoon system they run at times. If Singletary is getting 5 ypc, and isn't asking out of the game for a breather, then wtf are we playing other guys for? This isn't the defensive side of the football. This is offense, where your most effective players should be on the field as much as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 6 hours ago, co_springs_billsfan said: n any event it seems like a breakdown definitely occurred somewhere and hopefully they work on it. This 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, H2o said: This as well. I hate the platoon system they run at times. If Singletary is getting 5 ypc, and isn't asking out of the game for a breather, then wtf are we playing other guys for? This isn't the defensive side of the football. This is offense, where your most effective players should be on the field as much as possible. I've been beating this drum for years. The guy has been averaging close to 5 YPC since he got here. His top three workloads for each season (year, most carries in a game, second most, third most) 2019: 20, 20, 21 (no more 20+ carry games for the season; also inactive for four games) 2020: 18, 18, 14 (played 16 games) 2021: 23, 22, 19 (played 17 games) This is insane to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted September 29, 2022 Share Posted September 29, 2022 8 minutes ago, Gugny said: I've been beating this drum for years. The guy has been averaging close to 5 YPC since he got here. His top three workloads for each season (year, most carries in a game, second most, third most) 2019: 20, 20, 21 (no more 20+ carry games for the season; also inactive for four games) 2020: 18, 18, 14 (played 16 games) 2021: 23, 22, 19 (played 17 games) This is insane to me. This surprises me, it never seems like he gets nearly that many carries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 The old school things was that it takes a good full half before things start to get sorted for RBs But we are a passing team. So unfortunately for folks like me ? It will be situational matchups up all day from play to play. Down and distance , defensive schemes and alignments etc. But I also loved the true MLB who crushed the run as an a/b gap killer and helmets came off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 9 hours ago, Big Turk said: It's actually not, you may just not understand why tho, so it is kinda pointless having actual "real" football conversations with so many people unable to even understand what I am talking about nor understand why it's important. I feel like a physicist trying to explain advanced concepts to 3rd graders. I understand exactly what you're saying. My point is that it's to early in the season and the sample size way to small to be asking the question. This is particularly true given the weird circumstances of the Miami game. Last season Allen seemed to have great success in audibiling into and out of runs. Ditto for the first two games this season. So you're basing your question on the Miami game. A game in which the O-line was in complete chaos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFBillsfan Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 One thing is clear running shotgun RPO within the opponent’s 5 yard line or short yardage isn’t working. The D just focuses on Josh. At times I wish the Bills would play big boy football in these situations. Josh under center with a FB leading the way to block for the RB. D has to account for a QB sneak which should make the DL more vulnerable. We shouldn’t need Josh to have to play perfect every week and short yardage shouldn’t be that difficult. That shotgun RPO at the 1 yard line cost us the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Yes, Allen is responsible for the Bills poor running game and Zack Moss is responsible for their excellent passing game. This makes total sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayjent Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 TheDolphins crash the line of scrimmage and blitz a ton. You beat that by good blocking and quick hitting plays in run and pass game. Our OL wasn’t up to task to blow them out of water due to injuries but really they still played very well on Offense as unit. It was poor execution in scoring position, poor clock management, a missed gimme FG and a dropped pick 6 by Milano that cost them the game. Dolphins had everything go their way for the most part and lucked out a W against a team decimated by heat exhaustion and injuries. Sometimes the better team doesn’t win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 7 hours ago, TFBillsfan said: One thing is clear running shotgun RPO within the opponent’s 5 yard line or short yardage isn’t working. The D just focuses on Josh. At times I wish the Bills would play big boy football in these situations. Josh under center with a FB leading the way to block for the RB. D has to account for a QB sneak which should make the DL more vulnerable. We shouldn’t need Josh to have to play perfect every week and short yardage shouldn’t be that difficult. That shotgun RPO at the 1 yard line cost us the game. Yeah, Josh just needs to reach the ball over the line in that scenario. Seems like a high-percentage play. Don't overthink it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, Gugny said: I've been beating this drum for years. The guy has been averaging close to 5 YPC since he got here. His top three workloads for each season (year, most carries in a game, second most, third most) 2019: 20, 20, 21 (no more 20+ carry games for the season; also inactive for four games) 2020: 18, 18, 14 (played 16 games) 2021: 23, 22, 19 (played 17 games) This is insane to me. He averaged 5.1 as a rookie. He averages just under 4.5 ypa since. In 2020 he got fewer carries for the most part because he wasn't very good. He was much better last year and the uptick in workload reflected it. I think there is two things are play: - one we don't run a lot because our run blocking is not very good and they end up as wasted plays too often. That isn't on Devin but it is a factor. - two they seem to be obsessed with splitting the early series of games. I agree that is ridiculous. The Devin first drive, Zack second drive stuff needs to stop. It is silly. Zack Moss should only be in the game if a) Devin needs a blow; b) we are passing because he is unquestionably the better pass protector and he is a solid receiving back too (although Devin has improved in that regard). 11 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: Yeah, Josh just needs to reach the ball over the line in that scenario. Seems like a high-percentage play. Don't overthink it. Again with regards to Sunday Eric Wood's view was they didn't do that because they will not have practised it at all with a 3rd string center and the risk of fumbles is extremely high. His view was if Mitch Morse is healthy the Bills 100% sneak there but they did not want to risk the fumble. I was pissed about that play too at the time, hate shotgun in that situation but what Wood said does make sense to me tbh. Edited September 30, 2022 by GunnerBill 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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