Poor coaching by McDermott is becoming a theme

[RocCityRoller]

6 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

That was a drop.  Lots of receivers hang on to that ball.

The defender punched the ball out of his hands, that is not a drop.

[JerseyBills]

9 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

3rd string center

3rd string guard

2nd string RT

5th string CB

Back up CB

Diggs had to come off the field every other play in the 4th.

McKenzie had to go out multiple times.

Second string SS

Second string FS

Back up DT

2 practice squad DT called up.

Kumerow who has played decently also leaves with an injury.

 

100 degree heat index and no shade.

 

Thats what we dealt with today.

And STILL doubled them in total yards and were multiple flukey plays away from a W.

 

GTFO here. McDermott is a blessing to this franchise - this part was meant for OP, not you lol

Edited September 26, 2022 by JerseyBills

[Thurman#1]

52 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

He's below average, using measurable objective criteria, as a game-day coach...

 

I think you are focusing on big picture stuff.  Like he figured out which poisonous players to get rid of, he knows what types of players he likes, he gets everyone going in the same direction, he seems to motivate well, he gets players to want to play for each other....all that stuff.

 

He's a great franchise builder.

 

I don't know why he can't remain that guy as the head coach, but someone (quite frankly) a lot smarter can't be the "Field General" who dictates tactics during games.

 

Things like challenges should have NOTHING to do with the head coach.  He is no position to make those calls and he's not a review specialist...he's too busy building a football franchise.

 

In the years ahead, I think we will see a more sophisticated breakdown of power on the sidelines.

 

The thing I get a kick out of is watching the head coach (as though he doesn't have enough to worry about during a game) yell at sideline officials...like that is also supposed to be his job--work the refs to try and get a better call next time.  

 

It's so old fashioned and stupid....I hope it changes.

 

 

 

 

The measurable objective criteria you're most likely referring to are often either small potatoes, mostly old info. Am I wrong?

 

Here's measurable objective criteria, his teams win more than they lose.

 

They've gotten better. And not by a little. And you're right I'm focused on the big picture. That's where everyone should focus, IMO.

 

I wouldn't mind if they got someone in to take over challenges. But that's the old info. He started out doing pretty badly in challenges and he's been fine the last year or two.

 

 

49 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

excuses, excuses...

 

 

Um, yeah.

 

And sometimes factoring in the excuses is what gives you the right viewpoint.

 

The Bills shouldn't be saying this, it's not the productive way for the people in the action to look at things. But we're not players, we can look at things realistically.

 

And the injuries and in particular the heat problems had a massive impact on this game, the way the wind did in the first Pats game last year.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Budkin]

The Bills are good in spite of McDermott. It reminds me of back in the 80s when Doug Collins coached Michael Jordan and the Bulls. They needed Phil Jackson to get them over the top. I don’t know if McDermott will ever get us there but I hope I’m wrong. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Sure coaching definitely could have been better, clock management for sure. But McD didn't drop a TD catch, a pick 6, to a TD throw, miss a FG, bobble an end of half snap, make it 100+ degree heat index w/ no shade on the sidelines. While he could have been better for sure he had his very shorthanded team in position to win not once but twice. Players got to execute.

 

 

Saw on Buffalo Plus that thermometers on the field were reading 120.

 

That's insane!!

 

But yeah, players gotta execute. This was a team loss. Plenty of blame to go around and a bunch of very weird bounces and such besides.

[John from Riverside]

5 minutes ago, Budkin said:

The Bills are good in spite of McDermott. It reminds me of back in the 80s when Doug Collins coached Michael Jordan and the Bulls. They needed Phil Jackson to get them over the top. I don’t know if McDermott will ever get us there but I hope I’m wrong. 

Yeah no….just no

[Mantis]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

- We as a team seem to have removed QB sneak from the play book. We never run it. Ever. See this tweet for how I feel about that. Hard to think that’s not a directive from the top, seeing that two separate OC’s refuse to call it.

 

Disagree with much of the original post, but this part is spot on.  I remember a time when Allen was 14 out of 15 in converting 3rd/4th and 1 situations with a QB sneak.  Since the "slip" in Tennessee last year, I don't think that they have called it even once.  Today it was 2nd and goal from the 1 foot line!  And they have Josh in shotgun, standing on the 5 yard line and have him run...for a 2 yard loss.  Run a QB sneak for goodness sake!  All he has to do is reach for 1-1.5 feet and break the plane and he doesn't even have to protect the ball because if it gets knocked out once the plane is broken, it doesn't matter.

 

There were plenty of mistakes in this game that were not coaching related.  For the most part, I'm happy with the coaching.  But this downright refusal to run the QB is a consistent mistake that the coaches are making.  Hell even Matt Ryan converted one today.      

[Scott7975]

[Dablitzkrieg]

Let's not let Josh off the hook.  He missed a wide open TD as well.  That's not on anyone but him.  Point is a lot of blame to go around.  

 

Let's not kid ourselves, we all know when we play in Buffalo it will be a different story.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Dablitzkrieg

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I couldn't agree more. Stop burning early time outs in non emergency situations. This is getting ridiculous. Belichick always keeps 3 in his pocket late in a game. But unfortunately that's Sean's style and I doubt he ever changes. Very frustrating watching early TO's disappear or failed challenges. 

There were people screaming for McDermott to challenge that Gabe Davis non-touchdown and he didn’t do it and hung onto his time out

45 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Disagree with much of the original post, but this part is spot on.  I remember a time when Allen was 14 out of 15 in converting 3rd/4th and 1 situations with a QB sneak.  Since the "slip" in Tennessee last year, I don't think that they have called it even once.  Today it was 2nd and goal from the 1 foot line!  And they have Josh in shotgun, standing on the 5 yard line and have him run...for a 2 yard loss.  Run a QB sneak for goodness sake!  All he has to do is reach for 1-1.5 feet and break the plane and he doesn't even have to protect the ball because if it gets knocked out once the plane is broken, it doesn't matter.

 

There were plenty of mistakes in this game that were not coaching related.  For the most part, I'm happy with the coaching.  But this downright refusal to run the QB is a consistent mistake that the coaches are making.  Hell even Matt Ryan converted one today.      

We also don’t give the ball to the outback you’re telling me that Reggie Gilliam can’t get you a yard

[BobbyC81]

9 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

That was a drop.  Lots of receivers hang on to that ball.

I’ve seen similar plays called TDs.

[TBBills]

Leslie Fraizer needs to be fired, this is why old people are not being hired as HCs anymore. They don't think progressively and call a prevent 3 man rush on 3rd and 22.

 

@GunnerBillyou might disagree but most of the rest of the NFL agrees with just seeing how he mever even got a true consideration for a HC job. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by TBBills

[Matt_In_NH]

This is clear Monday morning coaching on a Sunday night.  Let's just pick this one:

 

- Not having your WR’s ready to go down with enough time to spike the ball

 

What play are you talking about exactly?  End of the half, end of the game when they were not in FG range?

[Einstein]

5 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

And STILL doubled them in total yards and were multiple flukey plays away from a W.

 

GTFO here. McDermott is a blessing to this franchise - this part was meant for OP, not you lol

 

One might say Beane is a blessing to this franchise more than McDermott.

 

What coach would NOT win with the talent on this roster?

[teef]

This is perfect.  Absolutely perfect.  

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

One might say Beane is a blessing to this franchise more than McDermott.

 

What coach would NOT win with the talent on this roster?

 

Beane has built a talented roster, no doubt. But I think the continued issues on the offensive line are absolutely a Beane thing. In 4 of our last 7 defeats the offense has had the ball at the end in Josh Allen's hands with a chance to win the game - Tennessee, Jacksonville, New England and yesterday (you could even add Tampa in there as a touchdown on that final drive instead of a FG wins us the game) - and we haven't got it done on any of those occasions.

• In Tennessee the offensive line got blown up on the sneak;
• In Jacksonville Allen was under duress the entire drive and sacked on the final 3rd down knocking us out of FG range;
• Against the Pats we turned 1st and 10 at the NE 13 into 3rd and 14 with a false start and then Allen was harassed on both 3rd and 4th down causing incompletions;
• Yesterday Allen was under duress that entire drive and then Quessenberry took a holding penalty that knocked us out of FG range. 

In the NFL there are going to be close games. It is the nature of parity. The Bills have an exceptional record of blowing teams out but when you have Josh Allen and in a close game he has the ball last that, frankly, is all you can wish for. That we haven't got it done on so many occasions (only the Colts and the Chiefs playoff game of our last 7 losses as the offense not had a chance at the end of the game to win it for us) is a real outlier for a team with an elite QB. And I'm afraid the pattern there is very clear. With all the chips in the middle of the table in those end of game situations we suffer protection breakdown after protection breakdown. 

 

You can put that on coaching if you like. But two OCs, two OL coaches... repeating pattern. The blocking ain't up to snuff. 

 

52 minutes ago, TBBills said:

 

 

@GunnerBillyou might disagree but most of the rest of the NFL agrees with just seeing how he mever even got a true consideration for a HC job. 

 

Almost every single team on 3rd and 22 with an inexperienced secondary is playing coverage. Okay, it didn't work, Jaquan got burned. I get it. But Leslie Frazier did an excellent job with the pieces he had yesterday. He put his young players in position to make the most of what they had. They give up one play and everyone goes mad about the playcall. 

 

And the reason Leslie Frazier is not a true consideration for a head coach job is because he has had his shot, is in his 60s and is a defensive guy when the league is going to offense. I wouldn't hire him as a HC either. But as a DC? He is one of the best in the business. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Beane has built a talented roster, no doubt. But I think the continued issues on the offensive line are absolutely a Beane thing. In 4 of our last 7 defeats the offense has had the ball at the end in Josh Allen's hands with a chance to win the game - Tennessee, Jacksonville, New England and yesterday (you could even add Tampa in there as a touchdown on that final drive instead of a FG wins us the game) - and we haven't got it done on any of those occasions.

• In Tennessee the offensive line got blown up on the sneak;
• In Jacksonville Allen was under duress the entire drive and sacked on the final 3rd down knocking us out of FG range;
• Against the Pats we turned 1st and 10 at the NE 13 into 3rd and 14 with a false start and then Allen was harassed on both 3rd and 4th down causing incompletions;
• Yesterday Allen was under duress that entire drive and then Quessenberry took a holding penalty that knocked us out of FG range. 

In the NFL there are going to be close games. It is the nature of parity. The Bills have an exceptional record of blowing teams out but when you have Josh Allen and in a close game he has the ball last that, frankly, is all you can wish for. That we haven't got it done on so many occasions (only the Colts and the Chiefs playoff game of our last 7 losses as the offense not had a chance at the end of the game to win it for us) is a real outlier for a team with an elite QB. And I'm afraid the pattern there is very clear. With all the chips in the middle of the table in those end of game situations we suffer protection breakdown after protection breakdown. 

 

You can put that on coaching if you like. But two OCs, two OL coaches... repeating pattern. The blocking ain't up to snuff. 

 

 

Almost every single team on 3rd and 22 with an inexperienced secondary is playing coverage. Okay, it didn't work, Jaquan got burned. I get it. But Leslie Frazier did an excellent job with the pieces he had yesterday. He put his young players in position to make the most of what they had. They give up one play and everyone goes mad about the playcall. 

 

And the reason Leslie Frazier is not a true consideration for a head coach job is because he has had his shot, is in his 60s and is a defensive guy when the league is going to offense. I wouldn't hire him as a HC either. But as a DC? He is one of the best in the business. 

 

Keep in mind that Allen was something like 95% on QB sneaks before our coaching decided to stop calling it. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Einstein said:

 

Keep in mind that Allen was something like 95% on QB sneaks before our coaching decided to stop calling it. 

 

I'd like the sneaks back in the playbook too, no question. But forget the series on the goalline for a moment. We still had the ball again after that with enough time only needing a FG. The offensive line failed us, again. In a big spot. You can pretend that is on coaching but ultimately that is on talent. When it comes to the crunch and it is your guy vs my guy and someone has to make a play our offensive line comes up small every time. Why? Because we keep patching it up with guys who are at best serviceable rather than really prioritising it. 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Leslie Fraizer needs to be fired, this is why old people are not being hired as HCs anymore. They don't think progressively and call a prevent 3 man rush on 3rd and 22.

 

@GunnerBillyou might disagree but most of the rest of the NFL agrees with just seeing how he mever even got a true consideration for a HC job. 

Von Miller, Boogie Basham and Daquan Jones were pass rushers on that play

[Shortchaz]

When there’s so many people involved there’s blame to go around, McD deserves his share of the blame.

 

One concern is that, when it comes to high pressure situations, the bills seem to be on the losing end. the team is not proactive in teaching/understanding how to perform in the pressure cooker. They don’t demonstrate a cool/calm confidence in themselves, instead they seem to panic(?).

 

McD is great at getting the team ready to steamroll/steamrolling and that is AWESOME. Where he could improve is a) the teams understanding of the rules b) situational performance.

 

not easy things, but I believe it’s a big part of what lead to Brady/Belichick’s success

Edited September 26, 2022 by Shortchaz

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

One might say Beane is a blessing to this franchise more than McDermott.

 

What coach would NOT win with the talent on this roster?

Hard to say. They have crazy talent in LA and Denver and they don't look too hot.

 

Beane might be more of one for sure but McDermott is phenomenal at getting our guys laser focused. Both changed the culture 

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Almost every single team on 3rd and 22 with an inexperienced secondary is playing coverage. Okay, it didn't work, Jaquan got burned. I get it. But Leslie Frazier did an excellent job with the pieces he had yesterday. He put his young players in position to make the most of what they had. They give up one play and everyone goes mad about the playcall. 

 

Not to mention this stat that I saw in an article this morning in the Buffalo News: "It was the first time the Bills’ defense ever has given up a third-and-20 or more situation in the six years of the Sean McDermott and Leslie Frazier era, according to Buffalo News charting. Opponents had been 0-for-22 on third and 20 or more against the Bills since 2017."

 

It happens. And yesterday it happened under extraordinary circumstances. It doesn't diminsh the job Frazier did yesterday in any way. Frazier did an excellent job..

 

Just an observation, but I find it interesting that some of the same posters who worried about Miami putting up 30+ points against this defense with the players missing going into the game, are now complaining about giving up one big play....

[Low Positive]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd like the sneaks back in the playbook too, no question. But forget the series on the goalline for a moment. We still had the ball again after that with enough time only needing a FG. The offensive line failed us, again. In a big spot. You can pretend that is on coaching but ultimately that is on talent. When it comes to the crunch and it is your guy vs my guy and someone has to make a play our offensive line comes up small every time. Why? Because we keep patching it up with guys who are at best serviceable rather than really prioritising it. 

How much depth do you think a team can have at any position group when your gameday roster is limited to 48 players? We were down to our 3rd string center and had backups playing out of position across the line. No team can withstand that.

34 minutes ago, Shortchaz said:

When there’s so many people involved there’s blame to go around, McD deserves his share of the blame.

 

One concern is that, when it comes to high pressure situations, the bills seem to be on the losing end. the team is not proactive in teaching/understanding how to perform in the pressure cooker. They don’t demonstrate a cool/calm confidence in themselves, instead they seem to panic(?).

 

McD is great at getting the team ready to steamroll/steamrolling and that is AWESOME. Where he could improve is a) the teams understanding of the rules b) situational performance.

 

not easy things, but I believe it’s a big part of what lead to Brady/Belichick’s success

Actually, Josh knew the rules to a T yesterday when he didn’t clock the ball after bobbling the snap at the end of the first half. I looked up the rule, and if you don’t immediately spike the ball it is a fumble.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

How much depth do you think a team can have at any position group when your gameday roster is limited to 48 players? We were down to our 3rd string center and had backups playing out of position across the line. No team can withstand that.

 

 

I agree with that, but the line was bad all day even when it was only down Morse and it is, definitely, a pattern now of us failing with the ball last to win games because of oline breakdowns. Maybe if our starters were still in it would all have been fine yesterday but I'm not convinced. We got beaten up front pretty bad all day and guy that actually gave away the big penalty on that last drive - Quess - played BETTER than the starter he replaced overall. 

[Shortchaz]

14 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

 

Actually, Josh knew the rules to a T yesterday when he didn’t clock the ball after bobbling the snap at the end of the first half. I looked up the rule, and if you don’t immediately spike the ball it is a fumble.

Sure felt like another panicky costly blunder 

[Low Positive]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with that, but the line was bad all day even when it was only down Morse and it is, definitely, a pattern now of us failing with the ball last to win games because of oline breakdowns. Maybe if our starters were still in it would all have been fine yesterday but I'm not convinced. We got beaten up front pretty bad all day and guy that actually gave away the big penalty on that last drive - Quess - played BETTER than the starter he replaced overall. 

Somebody pointed out that Morse being out was huge because he calls the coverages pre-snap. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Somebody pointed out that Morse being out was huge because he calls the coverages pre-snap. 

 

He does help Josh with protection schemes rather than coverages. He helps call the protections. So yes, him being out is a miss, of course. But we still have some JAGs around him and Dion. 

[Coach Tuesday]

14 hours ago, Bangarang said:

It’s not a drop. The defender knocked it out of his hands. You’re wrong. 

No, you’re wrong.

 

Davis has had issues with contested plays his entire career.  For all of his size and strength he has always had difficulty fighting at the catch point.  Always.  That was 100% a catch he could and should have made.

[Einstein]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd like the sneaks back in the playbook too, no question. But forget the series on the goalline for a moment. We still had the ball again after that with enough time only needing a FG. The offensive line failed us, again. In a big spot. You can pretend that is on coaching but ultimately that is on talent. When it comes to the crunch and it is your guy vs my guy and someone has to make a play our offensive line comes up small every time. Why? Because we keep patching it up with guys who are at best serviceable rather than really prioritising it. 

 

But this ignores the point that poor coaching decisions put us in the position to need a last minute score.

 

- QB sneak at the goal line and we likely don’t need a last minute score

- Don’t waste a timeout on a PUNT and we likely have another 3 points (field goal before half time)

etc

 

I also have a hard time blaming the linemen at that point of the game. They were exhausted.

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No, you’re wrong.

 

Davis has had issues with contested plays his entire career.  For all of his size and strength he has always had difficulty fighting at the catch point.  Always.  That was 100% a catch he could and should have made.

Either you struggle to understand the difference between a drop and a pass breakup or you don’t care and just want to be a troll. It’s sad either way.

[zow2]

Sure would be nice McDermott, if we were on the other side of more of these "named" games,,  Hail Murray X,  13 Seconds X,  even the "butt punt" is being talked about this morning all over national media, and yet WE still lost.  The joke is on Buffalo.

[Einstein]

Just now, zow2 said:

Sure would be nice McDermott, if we were on the other side of more of these "named" games,,  Hail Murray X,  13 Seconds X,  even the "butt punt" is being talked about this morning all over national media, and yet WE still lost.  The joke is on Buffalo.

 

“Most talented roster in the league” yet all of the close games we lose.

 

Hmm…

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

“Most talented roster in the league” yet all of the close games we lose.

 

Hmm…

 

Well we did beat a team last week, the Titans by 34 who have a better roster than us.  That's good right?

[without a drought]

13 hours ago, jethro_tull said:

DO YOU HAVE A SOLUTION?  

Yes, Mcdermott needs to tell them not to get injured, not to play in the heat and not to make mistakes.

[Billsatlastin2018]

 

If he had taken another step while maintianing possession then I think yes the chances are it would have been called a touchdown on the field and reviewing would have been academic anyway. 

 

There is an inconsistency in the NFL rulebook - I will grant you this - that a running back can lose control of the ball a millisecond after he has broken the plane of the goalline and it is a touchdown regardless. But for a catch in the endzone the usual catch rules apply. I get why it is that way but it is frustratingly inconsistent. 
 

I gave up on this idiotic NFL parsing of a catch,when Dez Bryant was ruled incomplete v.s. the Packers Playoff game.

 

100% Bryant changed from a WR to a RB, the moment his feet hit the ground. And like any trained Receiver he reached the ball out to spike the Goal Line! Becoming a Running Back doing exactly the same thing.

 

THAT WAS HIS FOOTBALL MOVE… REACHING FOR THE GOAL LINE!

[billsfan1959]

45 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No, you’re wrong.

 

Davis has had issues with contested plays his entire career.  For all of his size and strength he has always had difficulty fighting at the catch point.  Always.  That was 100% a catch he could and should have made.

 

@Bangarang you are correct

 

Davis caught that ball cleanly. It wasn't contested at the catch point.

 

Tucked it away

 

The defender got his hand on the ball

 

And then on Davis' hand

 

And caused the ball to come out

 

It was a good defensive play

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by billsfan1959

[Bray Wyatt]

12 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

 

If he had taken another step while maintianing possession then I think yes the chances are it would have been called a touchdown on the field and reviewing would have been academic anyway. 

 

There is an inconsistency in the NFL rulebook - I will grant you this - that a running back can lose control of the ball a millisecond after he has broken the plane of the goalline and it is a touchdown regardless. But for a catch in the endzone the usual catch rules apply. I get why it is that way but it is frustratingly inconsistent. 
 

I gave up on this idiotic NFL parsing of a catch,when Dez Bryant was ruled incomplete v.s. the Packers Playoff game.

 

100% Bryant changed from a WR to a RB, the moment his feet hit the ground. And like any trained Receiver he reached the ball out to spike the Goal Line! Becoming a Running Back doing exactly the same thing.

 

THAT WAS HIS FOOTBALL MOVE… REACHING FOR THE GOAL LINE!

 

This wasnt the rule at the time of the Dez catch and was changed to this because of that

[BillsVet]

50 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No, you’re wrong.

 

Davis has had issues with contested plays his entire career.  For all of his size and strength he has always had difficulty fighting at the catch point.  Always.  That was 100% a catch he could and should have made.

 

Had the same thought...and Davis' catch rate in seasons 1 and 2 were below 57%.  And considering that he has Josh throwing him the ball and not some pedestrian type QB, that's sub-par for this team.

[DCofNC]

15 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

I've been on the McDermott sucks at in game coaching decisions for a while, more and more people are realizing it now

 

The issue is that McDermott is also a great coach in every facet/measure besides in game/split second decisions

 

I stand by that he continue to improve but it's starting to get frustrating because the same issues are starting to pop up - mostly conservative defensive calls in key situations 

McD has done a great job creating a strong culture, his game day execution is horrendous.  He is the single reason for a missed AFC Championship game and multiple other losses.  I know the fan boys will say otherwise, but it’s time to move on.  The team will be better without him.  JA has made up for a lot of his sins, but if you continue to rely on one guy overcoming terrible coaching, you become the Packers.

[Captain_Quint]

15 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

3rd string center

3rd string guard

2nd string RT

5th string CB

Back up CB

Diggs had to come off the field every other play in the 4th.

McKenzie had to go out multiple times.

Second string SS

Second string FS

Back up DT

2 practice squad DT called up.

Kumerow who has played decently also leaves with an injury.

 

100 degree heat index and no shade.

 

Thats what we dealt with today.

Yeah, it looked like a MASH unit on the sidelines. People stretching all game, coming out for injuries and fatigue after every play it seemed like.