LA Chargers @ KC Chiefs - TNF Game Thread

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

I do.  That doesn't mean the Chargers aren't capable of excellent football.  they are, and they looked excellent, especially in the first quarter.  

 

I would say, it's not hard to find articles etc out there that document how they are very often less than optimal in their decision making and game planning, play calling etc.  But....just as you observe some of what they do....their coaches too often make the wrong choice or opt for a suboptimal call.  

 

Herbert is now 16-18 as a starter.  I think he's better than that record indicates and I think part of why it isn't better is coaching. 

 

It's the start of Staley's second year.  Are there really articles torpedoing him for game planning and decision making in his rookie HC season?

 

About KC:  Frankly, until that TD pass to Justin Watson (who?) in the 3rd, I thought Mahomes looked really out-of-sorts in the passing game.  He was being pressured, but he didn't seem to have or to want to take (couldn't tell from the broadcast) checkdowns and quick throws.   When he did throw, his receivers seemed to have trouble catching it.  I was completely taken aback to look at the stat sheet and see that Smith-Schuster played 75% of the snaps and had 3 receptions on 3 targets (for 10 yards!) or that Valdez-Scantling played 79%.  2 receptions on 7 targets, he and Mahomes need to "get in the lab".

 

This after the announcers were all over how the new receivers didn't matter because Mahomes had them all at his Fort Worth mansion for 2 weeks last spring.

[SCBills]

This was the first time I’ve really watched Herbert.  I’ll check in on games here and there, but being on the West Coast, and not a premier team, I haven’t really seen a ton of him.  
 

Just based off that one game… He’s a poor man’s Josh Allen, if JA was hesitant/incapable of running.   Strong arm, can make all the throws.  Big prototype looking QB.  Stands in and makes throws in the face of pressure.  His decision making, reading of defense seems to be a level below the elites and he throws check downs and jump balls FREQUENTLY  (although that may also be a function of the offense w their WR’s). 
 

He’s a top tier QB, but there is clear separation between Allen/Mahomes and Herbert/Burrow. 

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I havent dug through this whole thread, but are folks talking about those HUGE hits both Mahomes and Herbert were taking while IN THE POCKET?

 

With all these Bills fans concerned about Josh running, last night was another great example of QBs being most vulnerable while in the pocket, not while running.

 

We beat the crap out of Stafford - in the pocket.

Mahomes took a couple of big hits (one right under his chin, one into his legs) last night - in the pocket.

Herbert got crushed repeatedly, and injured - in the pocket.

 

In the pocket, QBs are sitting ducks and are completely vulnerable.

Out running, Josh does the hitting.

 

Put your concerns to bed. LET THE BEAST LOOSE!

 

I haven't seen it in this thread, but it's a fair point and I actually found myself thinking that about Herbert last night - "Dang, he'd be better off to run!"

[mannc]

2 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

It's too early to say you are wrong, but KC has a 1 game lead already with a division win in hand.  For the Chargers to win the division winning only 10, that would mean KC is going to have a disaster in the last 15 games.  KC would need to go 8-7 or worse in the remaining games, with one of those being a loss the the Chargers AND also finishing with a worse division record or other tiebreaker if they finish tied at 10.  That doesn't seem likely.

 

 

1.  one of the worst attributes of Andy Ried is he just doesn't like committing to the run, even when it's working...and you can couple that with wanting to be cute on short yardage plays where he calls very ill advised, low pct run plays when he either should just pass, or commit to a conventional straight line run.  Either way...last nights game was NOT one of Andy's better performances as a play caller.  

 

2.  Kansas City has a good line, but the OT are both beatable with a good speed rush.  Von Miller will be a problem.

 

3.  The Chargers roster is stacked.  They suffer from horrible, sub optimal play calling.  Joe Lombardi doesn't know how to coordinate an offense without Sean Payton telling him what to do with Drew Brees at QB.  Lombardi fails to utilize Herbert to his full potential.  The Chargers are held back by bad coaching.

 

4.  All 17 games aren't always going to be masterpieces.  KC got steamrolled by the Titans last year,  The Bills lost to the Jags.  Both teams played at a high level (offensively at least) in a huge playoff game.  Sometimes you need some breaks, and sometimes you need a defesnsive or special teams score to be the difference.

 

5.  I've seen some saying that if the Chargers had scored the TD instead of KC getting the 99 yard pic 6, that would have been the ball game.  .....It would of course been WAY better for the Chargers, but that happened when the game was tied at 17.  KC would have been down 7, with the ball with like 8 minutes left in the game or whatever.  You can't say that was game over.  The Chargers as it were, got the ball back down 24-17 and didn't do anything with it.

 

 

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

[Zerovoltz]

Just now, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

Defense is a monster when fresh, but for all their top tier defensive talent, where’s the depth?… because they were gassed in that second half.  
 

On offense, Keenan Allen obviously makes them better than what we saw, but they rely so much on jump balls down the field and check downs to Ekeler. 
 

Herbert is good, but he is way less athletic than I thought.  He just stands in the pocket getting rocked. 

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

Who do the have on that roster who can stretch the field?  And their TEs aren’t a threat either.  To me it’s a below average offense with an above average QB.

[LabattBlue]

Score was 17-14 Chargers, and Mahomes threw a ball right to Samuel which should haven been a 100+ yard pick six, and a 10 point Charger lead.  Instead KC kicks a FG, next possession Herbert drives the Chargers down, and he throws a pick at the goal line that goes all the way back. 
 

Two plays on back to back series that changed the game.  

 

[jkeerie]

11 minutes ago, mannc said:

I have to disagree that the Chargers have a stacked roster…that is true of the defense, but that offense is sorely lacking in speed and weapons.  Mike Williams is a nice player, but he was completely invisible in the second half…even with Herbert, who’s very talented, the Chargers’ offense seems like a dink and dunk attack that’s really not going to scare anyone.  I’d love to see that team come to Orchard Park in January.

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

News flash…you have to have some luck along the way if you are going to win a SB.  

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Defense is a monster when fresh, but for all their top tier defensive talent, where’s the depth?… because they were gassed in that second half.  
 

On offense, Keenan Allen obviously makes them better than what we saw, but they rely so much on jump balls down the field and check downs to Ekeler. 
 

Herbert is good, but he is way less athletic than I thought.  He just stands in the pocket getting rocked. 

 

Herbert is not elusive in the same way Allen is...his straight line speed might be similar, but he isn't going to make you miss or look silly in the open field the way Allen is or escape from the pocket when a defender is closing in by making him do an 'Ole! Or take on the defender and run him over or stiff arm him into oblivion. Mahomes has some of the elusiveness like Allen does, he just doesn't have the power component Allen does.

 

Even when he is running out of the pocket, he isn't a threat to run for 20 yards unless there is nobody out in front of him.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Big Turk

[Warcodered]

 

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This was the first time I’ve really watched Herbert.  I’ll check in on games here and there, but being on the West Coast, and not a premier team, I haven’t really seen a ton of him.  
 

Just based off that one game… He’s a poor man’s Josh Allen, if JA was hesitant/incapable of running.   Strong arm, can make all the throws.  Big prototype looking QB.  Stands in and makes throws in the face of pressure.  His decision making, reading of defense seems to be a level below the elites and he throws check downs and jump balls FREQUENTLY  (although that may also be a function of the offense w their WR’s). 
 

He’s a top tier QB, but there is clear separation between Allen/Mahomes and Herbert/Burrow. 

Had Herbert used his legs to convert those 3rd and short yardage plays, it could have been a different outcome

[Zerovoltz]

20 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

They really missed Keenan Allen.  BTW...KC is the luckiest team.  They always seem to catch teams that are missing key players.  Last year they played GB without Aaron Rogers.

 

...you guys get the Jets twice.  They don't have any key players.    

[EffKCChiefs]

1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

Good teams win ugly games sometimes.

 

....to put that in perspective....  The Jags beat the Bills last year.  It happens.

 

But perhaps a better way to put it...  When is the last time ANYONE ever said "the Chargers won that game and they had no business winning it"  ...you never hear that about them...it's often the other way around though.   

 

And...I'll reiterate this one more time....  when the interception happened, it was 17-17 in the fourth quarter.  There were about 10 minutes left.  The Chargers had to punt.  The Chiefs got the ball back and punted...the Chargers had the ball back again with just under 6 minutes left, trailing 24-17.  They ended up punting again.

 

The interception return was the key play obviously, but the Chargers had TWO chances to drive and tie, and possibly win the game after that happend.  

 

The Chargers had 400 or so total yards.  KC had 320 or so total yards.  That stat was Even when the Chargers had their final drive...but by then KC was up 10 and KC was letting them have yards in exchange for running clock.  The Chargers were only 5-16 on third down, but 4-4 on 4th Down.... The Chargers only rushed for 75 yards on 25 carries.  That's 3.3 YPC.  

 

I'm not telling you the Chiefs are some juggarnaut, or that they don't get enough credit, but I am telling you the Chargers A) couldn't get it done in the 4th quarter and B) The Chiefs defense was a part of why they couldn't get it done.  C) The Chargers are held back by crappy coaching.  That's a strong roster.

 

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, EffKCChiefs said:

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

 

would you care to elaborate further about how what I posted is "nonsense"?

[EffKCChiefs]

1 minute ago, Zerovoltz said:

 

would you care to elaborate further about how what I posted is "nonsense"?

Sure, everything you said. BETTER? 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Just now, EffKCChiefs said:

Sure, everything you said. BETTER? 

Is this the most effective way of conducting a meaningful discussion on the merits of what was posted?

[TheBrownBear]

I thought Mahomes was pretty bad last night, but he still scares the bejeezus out of me as a Bills fan.  Until we beat him in the playoffs, he's our bugaboo.

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, EffKCChiefs said:

Ugh, so you come here and post this nonsense? Go join your trailer park buddies on the KC message boards. 

the chargers have been one of those teams that have always found ways to lose. Clock management, being reckless last year with the 4th downs missed field goals. Going for it on fourth down is fine but when you do it in reckless spots it’s just reckless.  Just always seem to ***** defeat from the jaws of victory. 

[Rico]

Punch the Rat or Herbert in the face and they fold like a cheap suit.

 

Punch Josh in the face and he will punch you right back harder with a big smile on his face.

[John from Riverside]

What I took out of this game is there is a blueprint to beat the Chiefs you have to get past rush without blitzing and you got to hang onto the ball when Mahomes gifts you interceptions they also don’t appear to be able to stop the run either

[Joe Ferguson]

I guess there's a new rule now in the NFL when a defender has a chance to intercept a Mahomes pass, he suppose to drop it.

[Son of a K-Gun]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

the chargers have been one of those teams that have always found ways to lose. Clock management, being reckless last year with the 4th downs missed field goals. Going for it on fourth down is fine but when you do it in reckless spots it’s just reckless.  Just always seem to ***** defeat from the jaws of victory. 

 

Staley coaches the way my kid plays Madden.

[Protocal69]

13 hours ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

Please explain more where did you see this and how?

I was streaming the game from my computer and at the bottom of the screen their was a drop down for broadcast and once you selected it there was 4 different broadcast options to choose from and the one that had the ALL-22 option was listed as Prime Vision. It was ALL-22 with the name of the players shown above them in message bubble form. Best viewing experience Ive ever had watching a NFL game. 

 

Here is screenshot of what it looked like:

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Protocal69

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I understand your point that the "feeling" during the game was that the Bills were dominating.

My point is that in reality, the Rams were "in the game" until the 4Q when we (finally) went up by 2 scores.

 

You could say it took a low-probablilty deep completion to Gabe Davis and a rare pick on a deep target of Cooper Kupp  or it could have been a tie game in the 4th.

 

I'm not trying to "diss" the Bills here, my point is that at times, the Bills crapped the bed in the game vs. the Rams, and at times, Mahomes came through Big Time for his team last night.  So I don't think it makes any more sense to dump on Mahomes for that game, than it would to deny that Allen had his struggles and the Bills game vs the Rams ultimately hinged on a few big plays.

 

Mahomes had 68% completions for 235 yds and 2 TDs, including a beautiful 41 yd TD pass to bring the Chiefs back within 3 points.  It's not like he sucked.

 

 

 

Im not dumping on Mahomes but Allens "struggles" was one int.  The other two in that half were not on him.  McKenzie gave up the ball and Cook fumbled the other.  Thats what stopped the Bills offense.  Not Allen "struggles"

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The frustrating part (if you're a Chargers fan) is that the only LA player who had a real shot at the ball carrier after the INT was Herbert himself...and he was well positioned to make the stop.  

 

But then close to the point of contact the runner made a quick move and it left Herbert grasping at air.  Needless to say, tackling is not what he is paid to do, but he could have shut that play down at about the 20 yard line I think, 80 yards short of the TD.  He's a much bigger guy than the DB and he could easily have brought him down, but he whiffed.

And from there, no one was going to catch that guy.

 

To be honest, I thought it was a poorly thrown ball.  He put it on the wrong side of the receiver, to the inside, when he should have thrown to the outside.  The throw also got there late, which is what allowed the DB to jump it.

 

 

Yeah, even in the Dan Fouts era (who I always really liked and thought was underrated), the Chargers found ways to lose and were never an ultra elite team. 

 

I do remember that playoff game out in SD, though.  What was that? 1980?  We lost that one and it ripped my soul out, probably for the first time.  Age: 9.

 

 

 

I disagree.  The receiver actually made a move inside while Herbert was throwing and then went back outside after Herbert was already releasing the ball.  Also, based on leverage the receiver should have broke inside. I say thats on the reciever but in fairness, he wanted to come off the field because he was gassed.  Its really on coaching there IMO.  They were in good position.  They did not need to run a hurry up there with a gassed receiver.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Scott7975

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

News flash…you have to have some luck along the way if you are going to win a SB.  

This is true and some teams are luckier than others.

[Beck Water]

😅😅😅

Edited September 16, 2022 by Beck Water

[Plano]

Chiefs didn't look great.

 

Chargers beat themselves.

 

Couple good throws on both ends.

 

Couple bad throws on both ends.

 

Blah game. 

 

We'll demolish both teams if they get in our way.

 

[jkeerie]

Did anyone else see how Everett, after the interception, stayed behind to pick up his mouthguard!?  He was gassed and wanted off the field and the sideline wouldn't let him because they didn't want KC to have a chance to substitute.   Herbert would have been better served throwing the ball away to stop the clock.

[Billl]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

What I took out of this game is there is a blueprint to beat the Chiefs you have to get past rush without blitzing and you got to hang onto the ball when Mahomes gifts you interceptions they also don’t appear to be able to stop the run either

24 rushes for 75 yards allowed, and your takeaway is that they can’t stop the run?

[beebe]

i get so sick of INT commentary. it is very hard to not throw interceptable balls in the modern NFL the way teams are playing defense. you've got teams dropping seven into coverage, sometimes eight, and in the case of the chargers it's elite level players at multiple positions. you've got mack and bosa breathing down your neck. you've got samuel, jackson and others in the secondary glued to receivers. and then you've got LB's just roaming around. all the while, DC's are throwing crazy coverages at you (mahomes admitted afterward he was tricked on the samuel throw; the announcers tried to make it sound like it was kelce reading the coverage wrong). playing QB in the NFL is like playing Plinko. 

 

last year, mahomes had five INTs that bounced off a receiver's hands before being intercepted. this year, he's thrown a handful of passes that could have been intercepted but has ran pretty lucky.

 

allen's first INT vs the rams was an unfortunate fluke, and his second INT was a contested ball that was quite literally ripped away from the receiver's hands. 

 

i thought allen played at an unreal high level last year and yet he threw a career-high 15 INTs. 

 

throwing downfield in the current NFL carries a level of risk. the QBs who aren't willing to take any calculated risks and would rather dump it underneath all game probably aren't going to be leading efficient offenses in the end. 

 

[y2zipper]

6 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is coaching.  Joe Lombardi is in over his head as OC there.  He clearly only is capable of making a gameplan, at the direction of Sean Peyton, for old Drew Brees.  They throw a bunch of short dink, dunk passes.  WASTING Justin Herberts big arm and mobility. 

 

I agree here. I'm not doing long term implications after 2 weeks, but some things I saw:

 

The alarming thing about the Chargers is that through 2 games, they can't run the ball and their receivers don't get separation. I get the struggle with Allen being out, but it looked the same as last week when he was in there. Herbert makes such a living throwing contested passes that he's bound to get picked off. Injuries to their offensive line affected the passing game for them as the game went on, too.

 

On the whole, LA was too sloppy on offense. Their defense played really well though.

 

With Kansas City I think the single best attribute that I see this year is just how refined they look early in the year. I'm sitting in a place for after two games I think their defense is a little bit better than people think, and spangolo is a really good coach there.

 

I think that offensively they have stuff to figure out with the vertical passing game and with their running game, at the offensive line is really good and they don't make really big mistakes so that plus having Patrick bombs means that they're still going to be a really good team.

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

53 minutes ago, Billl said:

24 rushes for 75 yards allowed, and your takeaway is that they can’t stop the run?

When the chargers ran the ball they did it effectively.

[Billl]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

When the chargers ran the ball they did it effectively.

3 yards per carry, 0 TDs, and the longest gain was 8 yards.  VERY effective.

[frostbitmic]

Was it a good game ? ... I watched The Meg.

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, beebe said:

i get so sick of INT commentary. it is very hard to not throw interceptable balls in the modern NFL the way teams are playing defense. you've got teams dropping seven into coverage, sometimes eight, and in the case of the chargers it's elite level players at multiple positions. you've got mack and bosa breathing down your neck. you've got samuel, jackson and others in the secondary glued to receivers. and then you've got LB's just roaming around. all the while, DC's are throwing crazy coverages at you (mahomes admitted afterward he was tricked on the samuel throw; the announcers tried to make it sound like it was kelce reading the coverage wrong). playing QB in the NFL is like playing Plinko. 

 

last year, mahomes had five INTs that bounced off a receiver's hands before being intercepted. this year, he's thrown a handful of passes that could have been intercepted but has ran pretty lucky.

 

allen's first INT vs the rams was an unfortunate fluke, and his second INT was a contested ball that was quite literally ripped away from the receiver's hands. 

 

i thought allen played at an unreal high level last year and yet he threw a career-high 15 INTs. 

 

throwing downfield in the current NFL carries a level of risk. the QBs who aren't willing to take any calculated risks and would rather dump it underneath all game probably aren't going to be leading efficient offenses in the end. 

 

Exactly..I mean we had tyrod Taylor throw 3 or 4 ints in 10 games but had like 11 tds lol....I will take 40 tds and 12 to 13 ints anyday over that safe route

[mannc]

1 hour ago, y2zipper said:

 

I agree here. I'm not doing long term implications after 2 weeks, but some things I saw:

 

The alarming thing about the Chargers is that through 2 games, they can't run the ball and their receivers don't get separation. I get the struggle with Allen being out, but it looked the same as last week when he was in there. Herbert makes such a living throwing contested passes that he's bound to get picked off. Injuries to their offensive line affected the passing game for them as the game went on, too.

 

On the whole, LA was too sloppy on offense. Their defense played really well though.

 

With Kansas City I think the single best attribute that I see this year is just how refined they look early in the year. I'm sitting in a place for after two games I think their defense is a little bit better than people think, and spangolo is a really good coach there.

 

I think that offensively they have stuff to figure out with the vertical passing game and with their running game, at the offensive line is really good and they don't make really big mistakes so that plus having Patrick bombs means that they're still going to be a really good team.

 

 

 

Agree re the Chargers’ offense…they have no real weapons…kind of a dink and dunk attack. They don’t scare me at all…

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

3 yards per carry, 0 TDs, and the longest gain was 8 yards.  VERY effective.

Did you even bother to WATCH the game?