Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[glazeduck]

1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Lamar is a football player, not a financial expert.  He majored in communications, not business or economics.  Agents are specialists who understand contracts & economics.  He is being foolish to try to save 3% unlike almost all the other guys in the league do because they understand that an expert can get them more than the 3% difference than they can get themselves.  Eventually Lamar will get a big contract but in the meantime, he's giving up a ton of present day dollars.  Agents understand the time value of money theory, knowing a dollar today is worth more than a dollar in the future.  Josh's agent got Josh more than 45 million in present day dollars over what he would have made in 2021 & 2022.  Those present day dollars, if they are invested corrrectly, combined with the remainder of Josh's contract will be worth more even if Lamar gets a bigger contract starting in 2023 because Lamar has played last year on his rookie contract and this year on his 5th year option, while Josh already has 10s of millions more already in his hands.  

 

If Lamar had an agent, he would have received a contract similar to Josh's last year and now it will take him years to catch up with Josh, if he ever does.  Even though he will sign a bigger contract, he's already lost 2 years of a higher income.  .  

To be clear... I'm not necessarily saying he's making a wise decision -- your response is well put (even if the time-value of money has all but been debunked at this point). I think it's also fair to point out that there are MANY athletes who have gone broke because they trusted the wrong people with their money. No, Lamar isn't a financial expert, but he's also the guy making the money so he obviously knows he can trust that guy. Candidly, I don't even know if that's why he's representing himself, but it feels worthy of pointing out.

 

He's playing a game of chicken and could certainly lose -- without experts providing him guidance, you're certainly right in stating that that could certainly be a conceivable -- maybe even inevitable outcome. What I don't think is debatable at this point is that the Ravens have cost themselves money and/or years, by not at least bending earlier. My issue is that there's too many out there running with the narrative that he (a black man) is a moron and should leave it up to "the experts" (typically white men), when he very clearly is not a moron and has, to-date, made good decisions for himself. Maybe some of that is racial, maybe not, I'm certainly not trying to paint everyone looking at this less-than-commonplace decision as racist -- but some of it has that taste to it. It doesn't take a genius to see what's happening with the salaries at the QB position and the extent to which the Ravens have built their offense around him. You need a QB to win in this league, a lesser QB (and person) was just paid a quarter B, guaranteed by a team in your division. That's all leverage. Maybe he should bring in a #s guy to iron out the details, but it feels silly (at best) to act like one of the best players in the world at his position somehow just has no concept of how to value himself...

[atlbillsfan1975]

The fact that they have not signed him says a lot. Baltimore isn’t Cleveland, they are a well run organization, maybe top 3 in the NFL. I think the F.O. Knows that committing big money long term to Jackson is a very risky proposition, and one so far they aren’t willing to take. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

He turned it down. 😝 

[davefan66]

6 hours ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

It's hard for me to evaluate whether he's a passer based on how the team has treated the passing game (and not putting any resources into receiving weapons)

Benchmark?  Rodgers, Mahomes and of course Josh.  
 

is he even in the ballpark with game management, play recognition, pure passing ability, decision making?  Not close.

[davefan66]

3 hours ago, aceman_16 said:

Yeah....he would have made a good WR!

All kidding aside, he is a heck of an athlete.

 

Could he play another position and ball out?  For sure.  If they babysit him every game, feed the right plays and hope it doesn’t go sideways, he’d be decent.  Just not in the top 5, or 10 really.

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Agreed, but Lamar was 7-5 with the same injured squad prior to his injury.

 

Huntley has looked good - especially Preseason against Vanilla teams.  Even coming in he has showed well, but even putting up nice numbers - he could not get the wins that Lamar got costing them a shot at the playoffs.

 

 

 

To be fair Lamars last 6 games averaged 19 points per game.  Huntley wasnt doing any worse in the scoring department.  Its not like Lamar was lighting it up. Of Lamars 12 games he only scored over 23 points in 5 of them.  He had just as many games under 20 points as he had over 23. 5 of them.

[QCity]

8 hours ago, mikemac2001 said:

Nope they can tag him twice and then move on.
 

Probably be cheaper guarantees and protect themselves from injury or regression 

 

This. Getting locked into a long term contract with a running QB is a terrible investment.

[Doc]

I doubt any team offers him $45M/year on a 5 year fully guaranteed contract.  Meaning no out for injuries. 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

The fact that they have not signed him says a lot. Baltimore isn’t Cleveland, they are a well run organization, maybe top 3 in the NFL. I think the F.O. Knows that committing big money long term to Jackson is a very risky proposition, and one so far they aren’t willing to take. 

I think none of us know what in the world Jackson is doing behind the scenes so it’s nearly impossible to apply “this is how a negotiation normally goes” logic to this one.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Yes, lot of stupid organizations out there.

 

All of them rolled their eyes at the contract the Browns gave Watson.  If Lamar is truly looking for a fully-guaranteed contract, I doubt anyone gives him one.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

If they make the playoffs he may get an extension 

 

if not??

 

How long will Roman remain OC? 
 

Will he succeed if or when Roman departs?

 

[HappyDays]

My bold prediction is that he will be the Dolphins QB in 2023. I think he would be a good fit for Mike McDaniel's scheme and we know that team is desperate for a QB that can at least try to keep up with Josh Allen.

[BillsfaninSB]

Lamar is crazy.  If the contract is something similar to Murray’s, sign it!  Is it worth the risk just to get a few more $$?  Who cares.  He would be set for life and not have to deal with it anymore both for his sake and that of the teams.  Now it is hanging over his head.

I wonder if the Ravens are significantly low balling him. 

[Commish]

I didn't hear anyone complaining when these players represented themselves in contract negotiations:

 

https://www.gobankingrates.com/net-worth/sports/nfl-players-negotiated-own-contracts-did/

 

What's the difference? Lamar Jackson is a starting quarterback who has won the MVP - the amount of money involved is staggeringly different. And I don't know if he's smart or not, but a 13 Wonderlic score doesn't suggest Rhodes Scholar material. I hope [and expect] that - even if he doesn't have an agent - he's got a top contract attorney working on the language.

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, Commish said:

I didn't hear anyone complaining when these players represented themselves in contract negotiations:

 

https://www.gobankingrates.com/net-worth/sports/nfl-players-negotiated-own-contracts-did/

 

What's the difference? Lamar Jackson is a starting quarterback who has won the MVP - the amount of money involved is staggeringly different. And I don't know if he's smart or not, but a 13 Wonderlic score doesn't suggest Rhodes Scholar material. I hope [and expect] that - even if he doesn't have an agent - he's got a top contract attorney working on the language.

Awhile back I did read that he was having his contracts reviews by lawyers. That was likely in reference to his rookie deal. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

11 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Yes, lot of stupid organizations out there.

"Hello dere!"

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

If they make the playoffs he may get an extension 

 

if not??

 

How long will Roman remain OC? 
 

Will he succeed if or when Roman departs?

 

 

he's made the playoffs 3 times (1 win).  And no extension

[billsfan_34]

21 hours ago, wppete said:

Hire a damn agent like all elite athletes do. 

He will learn a pricey lesson very soon. 

Can’t fix stupid!

[Chicken Boo]

21 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

If I'm him I go in to FA and look to head to Houston, Seattle, anywhere else.

 

Pittsburgh...but then he'd be a wanted man in Baltimore. 

21 hours ago, davefan66 said:

Pretty sure he can’t go anywhere if he’s tagged.

 

If he wants serious money, dude needs to step up his game. He’s got skills.  I just don’t see him as top 5, and maybe just outside the top 10.  Not a pure passer.
 

Josh elevates his teammates.  Josh is a stud.  Lamar certainly is no Josh.

 

Lamar is definitely a leader and he wins.  That's all that matters.

[davefan66]

25 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

 

Lamar is definitely a leader and he wins.  That's all that matters.

He may be a leader, he may win.  He is nowhere near as good as the top QB’s in the league.  When a game is on the line, who would you want? Josh? Rodgers?  Mahomes? or Lamar?  Me?  I’ll take Josh of course.

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

42 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

he's made the playoffs 3 times (1 win).  And no extension

While true - it doesn’t alter my opinion that he is a mediocre passer. 

He often finds open guys because the spy frees them up.  
 

 

How many playoff games did Tyrod get to with Roman. Oops Rex changed that quickly 

Never mind 😆 

[benderbender]

Calling it now. The Ravens will double down on their position and trade him before the deadline this year. That way not only do they not risk any money paying him, they also get picks in return. 

 

There will be a team that will gamble on him for a one year rental. 

[Gugny]

21 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

They can tag him if need be - I think they can tag him 2 years in a row?

 

Opinion here but unless he's appreciably leveled-up his passing game, Lamar is going to have some hard learnings if he moves away from Roman.  I think he's a system QB right now and Roman's system is proven ideal for a running QB who can throw deep well enough to keep teams from stacking the box.

Cousins got tagged by the Redskins in 2016 and 2017. 

[Doc]

IMHO he's Michael Vick 2.0.  He'll be effective for only as long as he has amazing wheels.  I'm sure that's how the Ravens view it and why they don't want to commit huge money, much less fully-guaranteed.  And the injury that knocked him out of the last quarter of the season, and likely beyond if they'd made the playoffs, likely didn't help any.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Doc

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said:

Lamar is definitely a leader and he wins.  That's all that matters.

In the regular season. It really boils down to what the Ravens’ goal is: do they want to get to the playoffs every year?  Or do they want to go deep in the playoffs every year. 
 

Jackson helps them do only one of those things and he hasn’t been getting better with age. 

[TheBrownBear]

Going against the grain here, but I think he's going to be proven smart for playing this out and hitting FA (or franchise).  He's coming off the worst statistical season of his career, but the Ravens are much healthier now and he is primed for a much bigger year.  

[RunTheBall]

The Ravens are one of the best run organizations in sports. They know exactly what they are doing. They don’t believe in Lamar’s long term potential or they would have already locked him up.

 

The worst case scenario for the Ravens (Franchise tag, or tag and trade) is a LOT better than the worst case scenario for Lamar (serious injury).

 

Lamar is going to get paid millions no matter what. He’s not getting a fully guaranteed contract and he will not be getting as many millions as he wants.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

While true - it doesn’t alter my opinion that he is a mediocre passer. 

He often finds open guys because the spy frees them up.  
 

 

How many playoff games did Tyrod get to with Roman. Oops Rex changed that quickly 

Never mind 😆 

 

My point was that playoff appearances haven't gotten him an extension.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Pittsburgh...but then he'd be a wanted man in Baltimore. 

 

Lamar is definitely a leader and he wins.  That's all that matters.

 

His passing stats (starts, wins, rating, yards, etc) aren't significantly better than Jimmy G's (a guy "who wins"--including leading 49ers to 2 NFCC and a SB)---yet the 9ers were desperately shopping him this off season. 

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

His passing stats (starts, wins, rating, yards, etc) aren't significantly better than Jimmy G's (a guy "who wins"--including leading 49ers to 2 NFCC and a SB)---yet the 9ers were desperately shopping him this off season. 

 

 

 

While true, Lamar adds the extra element with his ability to run.  Jimmy ain't winning nor will he be in the running for MVP ever.

 

On a side note, Lamar would actually be a great fit in SF.  The perfect coach and supporting cast for his talents.  

Edited September 10, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Mr. WEO]

16 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

While true, Lamar adds the extra element with his ability to run.  Jimmy ain't winning nor will he be in the running for MVP ever.

 

On a side note, Lamar would actually be a great fit in SF.  The perfect coach and supporting cast for his talents.  

 

 

They have been saying this about the Ravens for 4 years. 

 

No one cares about MVP--it's a personal achievement that means nothing to the team as far as ultimate success (see:  Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers).

 

Jackson has been running for 4 years.  Now what?

[wppete]

3 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Can’t fix stupid!

Yea very true. Stupid and arrogant a dangerous combination. 

[Chicken Boo]

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

They have been saying this about the Ravens for 4 years. 

 

No one cares about MVP--it's a personal achievement that means nothing to the team as far as ultimate success (see:  Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers).

 

Jackson has been running for 4 years.  Now what?

 

You compared him to Garopollo.  I drew the distinction. 

 

Lamar is in the same boat as every QB playing the game including Josh.  What's the alternative for Baltimore?  Pick up Jimmy G and see if he can take you as far as Lamar can with Baltimore's roster.  

Edited September 10, 2022 by Chicken Boo

[Freddie's Dead]

For everyone saying that the Ravens don't believe in LJ's long-term potential, then why haven't they traded him?  Why would you leave your QB hanging?  it just doesn't make sense.  I don't get why the Ravens want to go WTF and burn their bridge with their QB for the forseeable future.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

You compared him to Garopollo.  I drew the distinction. 

 

Lamar is in the same boat as every QB playing the game including Josh.  What's the alternative for Baltimore?  Pick up Jimmy G and see if he can take you as far as Lamar can with Baltimore's roster.  

 

It's a distinction without a difference.  Ravens fans don't care how many MVPs Jackson may have.  Like every fan base, they want to see their team playing until at least late January, preferably  February.  They've seen all Jackson has to show at this point.  Recall Cam Newton, one time MVP.  Carolina kept him around for years after that...and fizzled out. After 2015, he was there 4 more years and they appeared in one playoff game--a loss.   

 

If Baltimore's goal is to just sell tickets and collect shared revenue, then sure--keep chugging along with Jackson and hope for a different outcome. If you want to at least take a chance to see a better outcome, you move on.   If they get to the AFCC game this year, then sure--they will likely pay him.  If they miss the playoffs or go one sand done--why should they?

 

Josh Allen is is a much different boat than Jackson.  It's not comparable.  He's a far better QB on a much better team. 

[Perry Turtle]

5 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

The Ravens are one of the best run organizations in sports. They know exactly what they are doing. They don’t believe in Lamar’s long term potential or they would have already locked him up.

 

The worst case scenario for the Ravens (Franchise tag, or tag and trade) is a LOT better than the worst case scenario for Lamar (serious injury).

 

Lamar is going to get paid millions no matter what. He’s not getting a fully guaranteed contract and he will not be getting as many millions as he wants.

 

 

If they are one of the best run organizations, why are they sitting around waiting for the league to drive up the price of their supposedly mediocre QB?  They could have saved literally millions if they extended Jackson last season, like Beane did with Allen, before the idiot Browns introduced the league to fully guaranteed contracts.

 

Meanwhile, as the price inflates for Jackson's extension, they're building an offense that only really works for his skillset.  So if they cut bait on Jackson, it's not like they could bring in another QB and be successful.

 

They could save money with Huntley, but where would they spend those savings?  Guys like OBJ aren't going to play in that offense with Huntley. Huntley isn't leading that team to the playoffs.

 

So it's down to sign Jackson or gamble on an total rebuild of the offense.  Longer it takes them to make the decision is going to cost them in dollars or wins.  

 

 

 

[RunTheBall]

5 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

If they are one of the best run organizations, why are they sitting around waiting for the league to drive up the price of their supposedly mediocre QB?  They could have saved literally millions if they extended Jackson last season, like Beane did with Allen, before the idiot Browns introduced the league to fully guaranteed contracts.

 

Meanwhile, as the price inflates for Jackson's extension, they're building an offense that only really works for his skillset.  So if they cut bait on Jackson, it's not like they could bring in another QB and be successful.

 

They could save money with Huntley, but where would they spend those savings?  Guys like OBJ aren't going to play in that offense with Huntley. Huntley isn't leading that team to the playoffs.

 

So it's down to sign Jackson or gamble on an total rebuild of the offense.  Longer it takes them to make the decision is going to cost them in dollars or wins.  

 

 

 

I think it’s pretty well accepted that the Ravens are a very well run franchise. I like Lamar, I enjoy what he brings to the game and I know he’s going to get paid but he’s not getting a fully guaranteed contract.

 

They are “sitting around” because they don’t believe Lamar has what it takes to get them to the SB and they aren’t going to lock themselves into a QB who they aren’t all in on for the next 5-7 years. Instead, they have 3 more years of Lamar if they want it using the franchise tag after this season.

 

If they believed in Lamar, they would have locked him up at the same time we did Josh. But they didn’t, so they waited to see how Lamar did and he regressed. You can blame the injuries last year, but as good as Lamar is he has hit his ceiling and has not shown significant improvement from year to year. He’s limited as a passer and the Ravens know as soon as he slows down the rushing, he’s an above average QB at best.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's a distinction without a difference.  Ravens fans don't care how many MVPs Jackson may have.  Like every fan base, they want to see their team playing until at least late January, preferably  February.  They've seen all Jackson has to show at this point.  Recall Cam Newton, one time MVP.  Carolina kept him around for years after that...and fizzled out. After 2015, he was there 4 more years and they appeared in one playoff game--a loss.   

 

If Baltimore's goal is to just sell tickets and collect shared revenue, then sure--keep chugging along with Jackson and hope for a different outcome. If you want to at least take a chance to see a better outcome, you move on.   If they get to the AFCC game this year, then sure--they will likely pay him.  If they miss the playoffs or go one sand done--why should they?

 

Josh Allen is is a much different boat than Jackson.  It's not comparable.  He's a far better QB on a much better team. 

 

Ohhh.   You're of the thought that Baltimore should move on.  Now it makes sense.

 

By "same boat" I just mean that neither guy has won a Super Bowl.  Buffalo has done a terrific job building this team.  Baltimore, not so much.

 

What's Lamar working with?  His WR corps consist of Reshod Bateman, Devin Duevernay and James Proche II.  

 

A change of scenery might be best for both parties.

[NewEra]

12 hours ago, davefan66 said:

He may be a leader, he may win.  He is nowhere near as good as the top QB’s in the league.  When a game is on the line, who would you want? Josh? Rodgers?  Mahomes? or Lamar?  Me?  I’ll take Josh of course.

 

 

But that doesn’t mean he can’t win.  Who’d you rather have, burrow or Allen mahomes, Rodgers?  Stafford or allen, mahomes or Rodgers? 

 

I wouldn’t take burrow of stafford over allen, burrow, or Rodgers…. But they were the guys playing for the SB.  They won games with the season on the line.  Did you see mahomes and Rodgers play in the 2nd half of their season ending games?  Season on the line….not just game on the line.  Many QBs are capable of winning the SB without being considered elite. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/9/2022 at 11:19 AM, The Wiz said:

Which is why the ravens traded their best receiver. 

 

LJ is either running it or dumping it to Andrews. 

Good trade. HW Brown didn’t fit that O.