Last night was a dominant win. But there was one obvious weak link holding us back... Zach Moss (lead the team in touches)

[ddaryl]

24 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

All I hear is blah blah Blackshear

 

 

baaa baaa Blacksheep... couldn't resist

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, BFLO said:

If the Bills continue to rely on Moss to lead the team in touches, it's going to cost them wins. 

 

6 carries for 15 yards, and 1 fumble. That's 2.5 yards per carry.

6 catches for 21 yards on 6 targets. 3.5 yards per catch. (credit to Moss for catching all 6 targets) 

 

12 total touches/targets for 36 yards or 3 yards per touch. 

 

The Bills attempted 31 passes and ran the ball 24 times (excluding the final kneel down). 

 

55 offensive plays and Moss got the ball on 12 or 21.8% of the total. 

 

More than 1 in 5 plays went to Moss. Yet he accounted for 36 of 412 total yards of offense. 8.7% of the total yards, or about 1 in 12.  

 

Midway into the 3rd Moss accounted for +25% of the total touches. That's more than 1 in 4. 

 

In one of the best offenses in the league Moss consistently has put up pedestrian like numbers. He's average on a good day and below average on most days. He's the least talented and least effective player on offense, yet we give him the largest share of the touches. It's mind blowing. 

 

And it's not like feeding Moss the ball stopped Allen from taking hits either... 

 

I don't see how giving the worst offensive skill player on the team the most touches is a winning strategy in the long term. 

 

I was literally going to post this. My issue is WHY are they not riding Motor. He looked phenomenal down the stretch last year and went for 6 ypc last night but only 8 rushes.

 

It seems they were rotating him and Moss but I think Motor is that good and should be the bell cow , with Moss and Cook sprinkled in. Stop the rotating and let Motor eat, he's really good..

[CLTbills]

1 hour ago, BFLO said:

If the Bills continue to rely on Moss to lead the team in touches, it's going to cost them wins. 

 

6 carries for 15 yards, and 1 fumble. That's 2.5 yards per carry.

6 catches for 21 yards on 6 targets. 3.5 yards per catch. (credit to Moss for catching all 6 targets) 

 

12 total touches/targets for 36 yards or 3 yards per touch. 

 

The Bills attempted 31 passes and ran the ball 24 times (excluding the final kneel down). 

 

55 offensive plays and Moss got the ball on 12 or 21.8% of the total. 

 

More than 1 in 5 plays went to Moss. Yet he accounted for 36 of 412 total yards of offense. 8.7% of the total yards, or about 1 in 12.  

 

Midway into the 3rd Moss accounted for +25% of the total touches. That's more than 1 in 4. 

 

In one of the best offenses in the league Moss consistently has put up pedestrian like numbers. He's average on a good day and below average on most days. He's the least talented and least effective player on offense, yet we give him the largest share of the touches. It's mind blowing. 

 

And it's not like feeding Moss the ball stopped Allen from taking hits either... 

 

I don't see how giving the worst offensive skill player on the team the most touches is a winning strategy in the long term. 

 

Well we just dominated the defending Super Bowl champions by 3 TDs, and really should have been more. 

 

I'm not worried about a "winning strategy long term."

[Process]

There is nothing Moss is above average at. Singletary is better at everything, including breaking tackles. 

 

If Cook isn't playing Singletary should be getting 80%+ of touches. 

[GunnerBill]

Moss gets a lot of dump off touches. They are not touches that would otherwise go to Diggs or Davis. They are touches that would otherwise be incomplete. I do think they gave it to him a couple of times more than I'd have liked as a runner. 

[Einstein's Dog]

10 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

All these posts saying they were supposed to be Cook's touches are obtusely missing the point.  Moss should not have been in the game at all!  Motor should have been in there.  Motor was on fire all night, and for Moss to lead the team in touches is criminal when Motor was ready to go.

Seems like you're mistaking yesterdays game for the Superbowl.

 

Motor looked a lot better to me too, but this is game 1 of 17 regular season games plus the Playoffs.  We need Moss (and/or Cook), for the season.  For the one game playing exclusively Motor may have been the way to go.  But we're better for the long haul by working the other guys in.

[TheBrownBear]

Moss served as a safety valve and pass pro specialist last night.  They weren't designed pass plays for Moss.  Those will be Cook touches if he can get up to speed.  He wasn't great last night, but he mostly served his purpose until the fumble.  

 

I agree with everyone else that Devin needs to see more touches though.

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, BFLO said:

If the Bills continue to rely on Moss to lead the team in touches, it's going to cost them wins. 

 

6 carries for 15 yards, and 1 fumble. That's 2.5 yards per carry.

6 catches for 21 yards on 6 targets. 3.5 yards per catch. (credit to Moss for catching all 6 targets) 

 

12 total touches/targets for 36 yards or 3 yards per touch. 

 

The Bills attempted 31 passes and ran the ball 24 times (excluding the final kneel down). 

 

55 offensive plays and Moss got the ball on 12 or 21.8% of the total. 

 

More than 1 in 5 plays went to Moss. Yet he accounted for 36 of 412 total yards of offense. 8.7% of the total yards, or about 1 in 12.  

 

Midway into the 3rd Moss accounted for +25% of the total touches. That's more than 1 in 4. 

 

In one of the best offenses in the league Moss consistently has put up pedestrian like numbers. He's average on a good day and below average on most days. He's the least talented and least effective player on offense, yet we give him the largest share of the touches. It's mind blowing. 

 

And it's not like feeding Moss the ball stopped Allen from taking hits either... 

 

I don't see how giving the worst offensive skill player on the team the most touches is a winning strategy in the long term. 

 

Part of the high touch count is two fold. One the Rams were forcing Allen to the take the underneath stuff (granted Singletary could have been in over Moss), and secondly, Cook’s fumble most certainly cost him reps this game. 
 

I agree Moss didint look overly special, I would have liked to see more Singletary, but I don’t think the Bills are game planning to give Moss 20% plus of the offenses touches, things happen and Allen took what was available most of the night. Context really does matter when discussing numbers such as you are. 

[716er]

9 minutes ago, Process said:

There is nothing Moss is above average at. Singletary is better at everything, including breaking tackles. 

 

If Cook isn't playing Singletary should be getting 80%+ of touches. 

Moss may be a better pass blocker but Singletary is also good at it.

 

Moss being better at getting tough yards than Singletary, though, is probably the biggest myth most fans still buy into.

 

Devin is much better at getting tough yards and slipping through defenders for one or two extra.

[RocCityRoller]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Singletary is by far the best RB on this team and should be getting the most touches of any of them. 

 

I have been hard on Singletary, as I don't consider him a RB1. I think he would be an amazing change of pace back with a studlier RB1.

I was also very hopeful for Moss.

 

That said, Singletary is clearly the best back on this team and should be getting 65-70% of the carries and snaps.

Since the end of last season Singletary has run hard with decision, is a bit slippery versus the first hit, and consistently grinds out 4-7 YPC.

He becomes a better runner with more carries.

 

I do not for the life of me understand how Singletary is not getting 15-20 carries a game.

[Freddie's Dead]

12 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Seems like you're mistaking yesterdays game for the Superbowl.

 

Motor looked a lot better to me too, but this is game 1 of 17 regular season games plus the Playoffs.  We need Moss (and/or Cook), for the season.  For the one game playing exclusively Motor may have been the way to go.  But we're better for the long haul by working the other guys in.

 

No argument there, but Moss was in almost the entire second half.  Motor should have gotten at least another two series instead of Moss.

[Process]

6 minutes ago, 716er said:

Moss may be a better pass blocker but Singletary is also good at it.

 

Moss being better at getting tough yards than Singletary, though, is probably the biggest myth most fans still buy into.

 

Devin is much better at getting tough yards and slipping through defenders for one or two extra.

People think being slow and sucking at everything else makes you a good short yardage back, lol.

 

Singletary can actually find holes and break tackles. 

 

Give me Singletary over Moss on 3rd and long, 4th and 1, goalline. Literally any situation. 

[Mattymafia]

I thought Moss was doing ok until he fumbled. 

[thenorthremembers]

I honestly feel that if Moss wasnt a Bills draft pick he may be out of the league at this point.    I know the Bills like to pretend he is some sort of pounding goal line back but he is 205 lbs, he isnt a big back.   

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Most of plays were supposed to go to the rookie  but he got put in time out. Godspeed, Jimmy Cook. 

Ironically he later earned his own time out

[buffaloboyinATL]

Trying out different things, putting things on tape, not putting other this on tape on purpose, etc.  There are lots of reasons for decisions made on game day.

 

I believe James Cook was going to be used more, until he landed in McDermott's Dog House.  

[Big C]

I think the Bills might limit Motor’s touches early in the season to keep him fresh for the stretch run. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Most of plays were supposed to go to the rookie  but he got put in time out. Godspeed, Jimmy Cook. 

Moss fumbled at the end of the game. My guess he’ll be inactive next week after this performance. 
 

I still believe they want to trade Moss. It’s my only guess as to why they were showcasing him. Singletary was feeling it also.

[BFLO]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

I don't want to call you an idiot.  Let's say you're writing like a person without much understanding of what you see in the chess match of football.

 

Moss didn't lead the team in touches because the game plan called his number on a team-leading number of plays.  The Rams were playing to take away the deep and intermediate stuff and betting that the same Josh Allen who got throttled by Pittsburgh using that strategy last season opener (and embarrassingly, by Jax), would get throttled the same way or force the throw and get picked (that happened). 

 

Moss led the team in touches because he, like Singletary, was the check-down option in the passing game on a night when Josh needed to get the ball out quick in the face of pressure.  Moss had 2 more touches than Motor, so it's not as though he was being given a ton more, they were dividing the load between the two backs.  And probably it would have been more Cook and less Moss in that role except they needed the best chipping and blocking from the RBs and also, Cook fumbled.

 

Go look at some of the stuff quoted from Jalen Ramsey.  "I feel like we kind of had a mentality like, 'bend, don't break' a lot, because they were driving the ball but they weren't scoring, like, we were getting turnovers, interceptions, whatever it was."  That was their strategy, give up the short stuff, wager that Josh won't take it, and capitalize on mistakes.

 

Instead, Allen showed that now, this year, he was willing to dink and dunk and take the checkdown.  This is a HUGE step forward in Josh's game.  Collinsworth correctly commented that earlier in his career, Josh wouldn't have done that.  I was literally jumping up and down and screaming because it's been the "missing piece" in his passing game.  You wanna send everyone on a jailbreak?  *Flick* get it out and at least get back to the LOS.  Get 1 yd, 2 yds, 7 yds, 8 yds.  Average 3.5 yds per reception.

 

It moved the chains.   10 plays, 11 plays, 15 plays.  Then when LA figured out that strategy of letting the Bills grind down the field was working against their need for points, they decided to send the house (cover 0) and Josh burned them like a blowtorch, right down the middle of the field to Davis. 

 

The only problem was Moss fumbling.  He can't do that.  Ditto Cook.  Muscle Hamster has to tuck it away and not double-catch it if he wants to be The Man in the slot.  And I need to watch to see what happened with Crowder.  My first impression was Josh shouldn't have thrown that one, but Crowder could have come back towards the ball and boxed out the defender.  I think that's a familiarity with Josh thing, the QB's he's played with would throw an arc you can't come back for instead of a dart.

 

The 4 turnovers were the problem, not Moss getting lots of options because he was the checkdown option in the passing game against the league's best defender, causing Josh to need to get the ball out quick. 

 

I personally would like to see MORE touches for Moss and Singletary and fewer designed runs for Josh.  Josh may love it and laugh as he's hit (Singletary said he was) but I don't want to see another season where Josh Allen is the best RB on the Bills.

 

 

 

And other teams will also key in on forcing us to rely on our check-down options. Moss being the worst option on the team and one of the worst in the league. 

 

It's not rocket science to say that if we're being forced to rely on check-down options, we should want good players in that position. And Moss is not. 

 

Moss did not move the chains. Practically every 3rd/4th down was a result of giving moss the ball on 1st or 2nd down. 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

Absolutely agree. I was saying this at the start of the 3rd quarter: Why is Moss getting touches between the 20s? It should be Singletary and no one else. Singletary has shown time and again that he should be the lead back, but for some strange reason they keep going to Moss and they don't let their best back get into a rhythm. Singletary is by far their best back. It's so ***** weird.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Absolutely agree. I was saying this at the start of the 3rd quarter: Why is Moss getting touches between the 20s? It should be Singletary and no one else. Singletary has shown time and again that he should be the lead back, but for some strange reason they keep going to Moss and they don't let their best back get into a rhythm. Singletary is by far their best back. It's so ***** weird.

My guess is it was like 90 degrees in the dome and they had a plan to rotate heavily.  

[Process]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Moss fumbled at the end of the game. My guess he’ll be inactive next week after this performance. 
 

I still believe they want to trade Moss. It’s my only guess as to why they were showcasing him. Singletary was feeling it also.

The fumble could be a blessing in disguise.

 

Sometimes McDermott needs to be saved from himself.

[BFLO]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

More than 1 RAC where Moss picked up a decent gain.  Go back and look.

 

You're right about the fumble though.  You could tell from McDermott's presser that he agrees and Moss is gonna be in the dog-house for that one.

 

 

Then you're mistaken.

 

 

Motor was getting the majority of the carries as an RB.  

Decent gain?? 8 yards?? 

 

Moss had a long gain of 8 yards receiving. And a long of 8 yards in the run game. 

 

6 rush for 15 yards. Long of 8. Pitiful

 

Take out the long:

5 rush 7 yds or 1.4yards/rush avg. Pitiful.  

 

6 catches for 21 yards. Long of 8. Pitiful

 

Take out the long

5 for 13yds, 2.6yards/catch avg. Again, it's pitiful. 

 

Motor got 8 Rush attempts to Moss's 6. 

Motor 2 pass attempts to Moss's 6. 

Motor got 10 touches to Moss's 12. 

Motor put up 62 yards to Moss's 36. 

6.2 yards per touch to 3 yards per touch. 

 

If you want to beat the Bills, leave the check-down to Moss open all game. 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

My guess is it was like 90 degrees in the dome and they had a plan to rotate heavily.  

I don't agree. These guys are world class athletes. It was warm on the field, but it's not like it was 90 degrees under a blazing sun. That wasn't an issue.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

I don't agree. These guys are world class athletes. It was warm on the field, but it's not like it was 90 degrees under a blazing sun. That wasn't an issue.

 

I don't know enough about how an NFL team runs - but Moss could have had a good week of practice.  Maybe Motor got dinged a little.  Everything everyone says is pure speculation. 

 

I do believe that buffalo doesn't want Motor cracking like 250 touches though.  Too many guys missing too much time, along with general wear and tear that can sap some of that effectiveness in the playoffs.  

[mykidsdad]

1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said:

Motor averaged 6 yards a carry.  I was screaming at the TV on why he wasn’t in there

missed winning a prop bet by 2 yards. goodbye $600 bucks.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Yeah, it's pretty disgusting that the Bills offense - against the defending Super Bowl Champions - moved the ball at will, scoring 31 points - even after turning the ball over four times.  Definitely a problem.

 

Cmon Gug. You can clearly see that Moss is a weak link on this team. 
 

besides, now that Bease, Hughes, and Levi Wallace are gone we need a new whipping boy and Moss is the next man up. It’s also earned by him. 

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Cmon Gug. You can clearly see that Moss is a weak link on this team. 
 

besides, now that Bease, Hughes, and Levi Wallace are gone we need a new whipping boy and Moss is the next man up. It’s also earned by him. 

 

All I'm saying is that the offense worked last night and Moss was part of it.  If he's the weak link and we continue to move the ball like a hot knife through butter, then so be it.  The only bad thing he did last night was fumble.  Other than that, he gained yards every time he touched the ball.

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, BFLO said:

Decent gain?? 8 yards?? 

 

Moss had a long gain of 8 yards receiving. And a long of 8 yards in the run game. 

 

6 rush for 15 yards. Long of 8. Pitiful

 

Take out the long:

5 rush 7 yds or 1.4yards/rush avg. Pitiful.  

 

6 catches for 21 yards. Long of 8. Pitiful

 

Take out the long

5 for 13yds, 2.6yards/catch avg. Again, it's pitiful. 

 

Motor got 8 Rush attempts to Moss's 6. 

Motor 2 pass attempts to Moss's 6. 

Motor got 10 touches to Moss's 12. 

Motor put up 62 yards to Moss's 36. 

6.2 yards per touch to 3 yards per touch. 

 

If you want to beat the Bills, leave the check-down to Moss open all game. 

 

 

The Rams, in fact, didn't beat the Bills by leaving the checkdown to Moss open all game.  The Bills did not punt 1 time.  The only thing stopping the Bills offense last night was.....mistakes by the Bills offense. 

 

One of which, to be fair, was on Moss

 

The Steelers and Jags actually did beat the Bills by leaving the checkdown open all game - because Josh Allen refused to use it immediately, when the checkdown outlet has time and space to actually gain 6 or 8 yards, or at least make it back to the LOS

 

Do some math.  6 catches for 21 yds is 3.5 yds per reception.  That moves the chains.

 

I mean this in a kind way, but you really need to learn some football beyond looking at stats.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

Cmon Gug. You can clearly see that Moss is a weak link on this team. 
 

besides, now that Bease, Hughes, and Levi Wallace are gone we need a new whipping boy and Moss is the next man up. It’s also earned by him. 

 

Weak link?  He fumbled sure.  So did Cook.  Allen also telegraphed a terrible INT, and mis-read a red zone possession resulting in a field goal.  

 

He also blocked, hit people, and caught every target (they were all check downs).

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I don't know enough about how an NFL team runs - but Moss could have had a good week of practice.  Maybe Motor got dinged a little.  Everything everyone says is pure speculation. 

Where is the speculation? They were rotating from the start and lasted into the 2nd half when Singletary was fine and clearly getting more out of his touches. There's no speculation. We watched it with our eyes.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

The Rams, in fact, didn't beat the Bills by leaving the checkdown to Moss open all game.  The Bills did not punt 1 time.  The only thing stopping the Bills offense last night was.....mistakes by the Bills offense. 

 

One of which, to be fair, was on Moss

 

The Steelers and Jags actually did beat the Bills by leaving the checkdown open all game - because Josh Allen refused to use it immediately, when the checkdown outlet has time and space to actually gain 6 or 8 yards, or at least make it back to the LOS

 

Do some math.  6 catches for 21 yds is 3.5 yds per reception.  That moves the chains.

 

I mean this in a kind way, but you really need to learn some football beyond looking at stats.

 

On the INT he had time, and no one was there... except knox in the flats. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

 

Very true about the dump offs. But why is Moss getting nearly as many carries as Motor when Devin is averaging 6 yards per carry and running so hard?

 

Is Moss that much better at pass pro? Cause that's the only thing I can think of, other than Motor caught a slight injury. 

 

Just looping back to put this here. 

Motor deserves his "propers" in pass pro.  He has become a very good pass protector in the backfield.  Look at the way he handles this guy, LB Ernest Jones 6'2" 230 lbs.  Moss is no longer better there.  Motor has caught up and maybe passed him.

 

But even though he handles him long enough for Allen to make the throw, look how he ends the block, being thrown back off balance.

 

Chipping and releasing as an outlet is a different skillset than straight up blocking in the backfield.  If you let yourself get thrown off balance, then you're not where you need to be when you need to be to make that catch.  And that's where from what I've seen Moss is still better, and also still has better hands as an RB.

[Jerome007]

Both RBs also blocked well

 

Cook got his warning...

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

All I'm saying is that the offense worked last night and Moss was part of it.  If he's the weak link and we continue to move the ball like a hot knife through butter, then so be it.  The only bad thing he did last night was fumble.  Other than that, he gained yards every time he touched the ball.

Meh. I’d rather bash him because he’s not good. 

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Weak link?  He fumbled sure.  So did Cook.  Allen also telegraphed a terrible INT, and mis-read a red zone possession resulting in a field goal.  

 

He also blocked, hit people, and caught every target (they were all check downs).

Ugh. He’s just not good. He received more touches than any other Bill and was outperformed by almost everyone 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Moss was being asked to run through masses of defenders.  He dragged them along.  Averaged 3 yds per touch.  Mix in just one longer play and that moves the chains.  He "did his job".

 

We needed an RB who could chip effectively and block effectively last night.  Moss >> Cook at this point with that skill.

 

Cook's time will come.

I actually thought he did a pretty good job moving bodies and wearing them down last night.  will have to watch r3eeplay to see his blocking.

[Matt_In_NH]

The holes were not there as much for Moss.  But its a fair point...was Singletary injured or something?   The 4th quarter runs by Josh are more concerning.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just looping back to put this here. 

Motor deserves his "propers" in pass pro.  He has become a very good pass protector in the backfield.  Look at the way he handles this guy, LB Ernest Jones 6'2" 230 lbs.  Moss is no longer better there.  Motor has caught up and maybe passed him.

 

But even though he handles him long enough for Allen to make the throw, look how he ends the block, being thrown back off balance.

 

Chipping and releasing as an outlet is a different skillset than straight up blocking in the backfield.  If you let yourself get thrown off balance, then you're not where you need to be when you need to be to make that catch.  And that's where from what I've seen Moss is still better, and also still has better hands as an RB.

 

Motor played 35/59 snaps to Moss 22/59 snaps.  Cook played 3/59.

 

Diggs played 38/59 snaps fwiw.  Moss, Gilliam, Crowder, Mckenzie all played in that 15-25 range.  Kumerow played 14 actually as well.  

[RyanC883]

putting Cook in doghouse and then Moss fumbling and not in dog house was annoying.  McD needs to stop with the meathead games of rookie fumbling equals doghouse.  

 

Otherwise, very happy with offensive play calling and overall game.  Really a small critique.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

putting Cook in doghouse and then Moss fumbling and not in dog house was annoying.  McD needs to stop with the meathead games of rookie fumbling equals doghouse.  

 

Otherwise, very happy with offensive play calling and overall game.  Really a small critique.  

 

Moss fumbled with 5 minutes left in the game.  The next time we had the ball we kneeled.