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Tre White to PUP list, out first 4 games


YoloinOhio

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37 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

No I don't understand that, he wasn't let go he was signed by the Steelers as a free agent. He wasn't the only defensive back to have a terrible game, both our all pro safeties got lit up also. I prefer a guy who has been there and done that, having 2 rookies trying to learn the ropes in a SB window is just irresponsible. Again if both the rookies play like all pro's then they dodged a bullet but if they don't we may be scrambling to find some help. I don't hate the Bills or the coaching staff and I'm not saying we'll lose every game because of it but it seems we've neglected to add veterans back there for some odd reason.

We were we weak at cornerback going into the draft,  and until our rookie DB's play this year in some real game situations.  We will see where we stand after 4 games.  I bet their first quarterly report card is going to be about a C+.

 

 I just don't see our rookie CB's shutting down the receivers we are going to face in the first 4 games this year.  It might be fairly ugly at times too.  Another concern is officiating this year,  and them calling more closely contested pass coverage.  If they call it really tight and don't let the incidental contact happen we are screwed.  Rookies are are not going to play at that high of a level right out of the gate.  Mistakes will occur every single game.  It's just how many they commit and how bad it costs us.

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1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

The Bills defense has been built by trying to take away the big play for the last 5 years. Have you even bothered to notice what I assume you have been watching?

 

You are posting like that is some shocking relevation. Have you been frustrated watching them for the past 5 seasons?

While the Bills do play with 2 high safeties a lot of the time they are actually primarily a cover 1 and cover 3 team with over half of their defensive snaps with 1 deep safety (Hyde). If you can't rely on your young corners then you are forced to drop Poyer back too to cover the deep halves which takes away one of our best ball hawks and play makers. If you are just running a vanilla cover 2 or cover 4 the entire game, a good QB like Stafford is going to pick you apart with Kupp and Woods sitting in the holes all game long. That plays to their strength. The ability to be versatile and mix up coverages is what keeps the offense guessing. If you know what you are going to see every play because you don't have corners you can trust it's going to be a pretty simple game plan: 10 yards and get open. It's like in baseball when you know the pitcher doesn't have a curve ball. The Bills should have seen White was not going to be ready and signed a veteran. This is hubris imo. They think our defense is so good and we are so great at coaching up CB's we can stick anyone out there and they will play well enough. We'll see. I think it's going to be a frustrating night 

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Virgil said:

Definitely saw this coming.  Timing sucks with Robinson and Kupp in week 1.  Weeks 2-4 don’t concern me as much


 

But isn’t Kupp almost exclusively in the slot and therefore Taron’s match up?

 

Robinson is their real only outside threat and they should be able to use the safety to help cover deep.

 

I am more worried about them using Kupp to get a TE open by attacking the middle of the field.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Locomark said:

This is why I expect us to dial up more pressure this year early on. It’s time for the offense and that DL to shine to start the year. Let’s start a week from Thursday and put 35 on the Champs with 3-4 sacks.  

 

The idea is to get pressure with the front four in McD's scheme...not bring pressure with blitzes, zone or otherwise.  

 

Besides, they've invested a ton into that DL...if they can't get pressure from that unit then something is really wrong. 

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26 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

While the Bills do play with 2 high safeties a lot of the time they are actually primarily a cover 1 and cover 3 team with over half of their defensive snaps with 1 deep safety (Hyde). If you can't rely on your young corners then you are forced to drop Poyer back too to cover the deep halves which takes away one of our best ball hawks and play makers. If you are just running a vanilla cover 2 or cover 4 the entire game, a good QB like Stafford is going to pick you apart with Kupp and Woods sitting in the holes all game long. That plays to their strength. The ability to be versatile and mix up coverages is what keeps the offense guessing. If you know what you are going to see every play because you don't have corners you can trust it's going to be a pretty simple game plan: 10 yards and get open. It's like in baseball when you know the pitcher doesn't have a curve ball. The Bills should have seen White was not going to be ready and signed a veteran. This is hubris imo. They think our defense is so good and we are so great at coaching up CB's we can stick anyone out there and they will play well enough. We'll see. I think it's going to be a frustrating night 

 

 


 

Woods is no longer on the team - so he can sit in any hole he wants week 1.

 

Kupp will be covered by Johnson - most likely with safety help shaded his way.

 

Robinson is the primary outside receiver- and he has been mostly about getting deep - so my guess is they will shade the single high safety to that side and try to protect deep.

 

I am pretty sure you will see a combination of man/zone on the other side with both Elam and Benford in the game.

 

It might be frustrating because the Rams are a good team, but I think the idea of signing a veteran DB was never happening- a guy like Haden just is no longer a better player than the rookies - and if you are getting someone better - you have to get rid of some depth or you lack money for Von Miller.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

All available free agents sign in Buffalo right?

 

So lets say we sign one of those guys.  That means our 1st round pick in Elam would be a back up.  Then you would complain our 1st round pick is a back up after White returns.  

 

Right, then in addition, Gilmore signed for 2 yr $20M with a $7.75M cap hit this year.  So then people would complain that we have $24M tied up at CB and that 4 of our top 10 paid players are DBs, and that 8 of our top 12 paid players are defenders.

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13 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

He’ll be back after the bye 

I actually think they could bring back sooner than that. I think he’s probably relatively close to being cleared which was why Beane said they were taking it down to to the last minute, but they know he needs to practice first etc and by drafting Elam and Benford that gives them the luxury to not need to rush  him back for the early games, to increase the potential that he’s full strength for the bulk of the schedule and playoffs. 

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4 hours ago, Success said:

Dane Jackson has looked great - and a 1st rounder should be able to start on day 1.

 

This is how depth gets built. You can have good players waiting in the wings - but they also need experience. Hopefully, this will serve the Bills better down the home stretch & in the playoffs.

 

As long as it doesn’t cost us couple of games which could decide the #1 or # 2,seed !!!

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1 hour ago, Toyo321 said:

We were we weak at cornerback going into the draft,  and until our rookie DB's play this year in some real game situations.  We will see where we stand after 4 games.  I bet their first quarterly report card is going to be about a C+.

 

 I just don't see our rookie CB's shutting down the receivers we are going to face in the first 4 games this year.  It might be fairly ugly at times too.  Another concern is officiating this year,  and them calling more closely contested pass coverage.  If they call it really tight and don't let the incidental contact happen we are screwed.  Rookies are are not going to play at that high of a level right out of the gate.  Mistakes will occur every single game.  It's just how many they commit and how bad it costs us.

 

I was really hoping for a couple drafted rookies, Dane Jackson and at least 2 mid tier veteran corners. It's crazy to think Tre White will be a top form when he does finally come back. I agree it could get ugly back there but let's hope the rookies play like all pros, that's all we can hope for.

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3 hours ago, vincec said:

To be honest, I think it’s unlikely that White will be back anywhere close to 100% at any point this season. He may play, but I doubt he will be fully confident in his knee and that’s not even factoring in the rust. I think next season is more likely before we see the old Tre White.

Rust? Did they put a steel plate in his knee? I sure hope he brings his WD-40 on game days!

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3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

as another poster noted, this is a bad play by the FO not getting a vet opposite Jackson.  We don’t have games to “play with” trying to get the 1 seed.  Hopefully Elam or Benford is up to the task. 

If McDermott hasn’t proved himself on cornerbacks do you by now he never will

31 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

I was really hoping for a couple drafted rookies, Dane Jackson and at least 2 mid tier veteran corners. It's crazy to think Tre White will be a top form when he does finally come back. I agree it could get ugly back there but let's hope the rookies play like all pros, that's all we can hope for.

They were running out the clock to see if he was going to be ready to start the season I expect him to be fully ready to go whenever he comes off pup

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Not a surprise given the way the last few days have trended but something feels a little off in the timeline for me. The Bills have told us all offseason he is on schedule but putting him on PUP which means he can't even practice for the first 4 weeks so likely won't play until week 6 at the earliest means he will have been out 11 months with an ACL. 

 

That is not 'on schedule' for that injury in 2022. I'd be a little concerned. 

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3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

That is not 'on schedule' for that injury in 2022. I'd be a little concerned. 

I'm a little concerned given how many they kept in the secondary.  Their may have been a setback as he was visible doing rehab to the beat reporters to start camp and then you didn't hear much since.  On the other hand, they may want to make sure that he's 100% ready to go when he does come back given the investment they have in him.

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4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Not a surprise given the way the last few days have trended but something feels a little off in the timeline for me. The Bills have told us all offseason he is on schedule but putting him on PUP which means he can't even practice for the first 4 weeks so likely won't play until week 6 at the earliest means he will have been out 11 months with an ACL. 

 

That is not 'on schedule' for that injury in 2022. I'd be a little concerned. 


 

I think they were hoping for a game #1 or #2 return, but I think with everything going on and the practice and preseason play of the DBs - they felt they could use the PUP list and give him extra time.  
 

Even week 6 puts him mid-October  - the injury was Thanksgiving and the surgery was in December- so week 6 really puts you at 10 months from surgery.

 

I think if the Bills were not deep at DB this year - they probably do not PUP White and target game 3 or so, but they feel they have the time and the first 4 games are not all big passing offenses - so give him time.

 

 

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13 hours ago, marck said:

The answer was to draft a CB in the first round, then we got a bonus by getting Benford in the 6th, so it may not be the best situation buts it’s manageable


Well written Marck.  I’m glad to see you’re not doing this like some posters.

 


Friendly advice to a newer poster,  don’t be chicken little.  You’re demonstrating you’re not, and that’s cool.  Some guys think the sky is falling because we didn’t grab Haden.  What we don’t know is we may do that the day after the first day of the season as we don’t have to guarantee his salary for the year, and see how long we need him.

 

This is not the final 53.  We won’t know that until the Rams, and then will minorly tweak again in the days after the Rams game.  We took two CBs in the draft, have the best safety tandem in the league, one of if not the absolute best NCB in Taron, and Dane played from Thanksgiving through the playoffs.

 

We’ll see if our 2st RD draft pick will be up to the test.  Historically, we’ve played more zone than man, but with Elam’s skill set, we may start out as more of a man team for the first 5 weeks.

 

Besides the chicken littles and I’m not pointing out names, aren’t thinking about the significant upgrades we made in the D Line, that makes a secondary easier to play.  Von will demand double coverage, so Oliver and J Phillips will be singled and allow more inside penetration.

 

Im not worried at all and why as it doesn’t help.  After the Rams, our next opposing passing competition doesn’t start until the Chiefs in week 6.  The Ravens had the 32nd passing attack last year, and I have to be sworn Tua can hit deep when 1st string defenses come at him.  Him throwing a couple to Hill in a preseason against backups means nothing.

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Just now, machine gun kelly said:


Well written Marck.  I’m glad to see you’re not doing this like some posters.

 


Friendly advice to a newer poster,  don’t be chicken little.  You’re demonstrating you’re not, and that’s cool.  Some guys think the sky is falling because we didn’t grab Haden.  What we don’t know is we may do that the day after the first day of the season as we don’t have to guarantee his salary for the year, and see how long we need him.

 

This is not the final 53.  We won’t know that until the Rams, and then will minorly tweak again in the days after the Rams game.  We took two CBs in the draft, have the best safety tandem in the league, one of if not the absolute best NCB in Taron, and Dane played from Thanksgiving through the playoffs.

 

We’ll see if our 2st RD draft pick will be up to the test.  Historically, we’ve played more zone than man, but with Elam’s skill set, we may start out as more of a man team for the first 5 weeks.

 

Besides the chicken littles and I’m not pointing out names, aren’t thinking about the significant upgrades we made in the D Line, that makes a secondary easier to play.  Von will demand double coverage, so Oliver and J Phillips will be singled and allow more inside penetration.

 

Im not worried at all and why as it doesn’t help.  After the Rams, our next opposing passing competition doesn’t start until the Chiefs in week 6.  The Ravens had the 32nd passing attack last year, and I have to be sworn Tua can hit deep when 1st string defenses come at him.  Him throwing a couple to Hill in a preseason against backups means nothing.

 

I have never thought there is a vet out there at corner that makes sense this offseason. What is the benefit of 4 games of someone like Joe Haden? That is just robbing you of the chance of getting Elam (and Benford) on the field and exposing them to some real football. What are you gonna do? Wrap them in cotton wool? Let's get them on the field, let them take some lumps and hopefully they are then ready to help us down the stretch and in the post-season.

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6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have never thought there is a vet out there at corner that makes sense this offseason. What is the benefit of 4 games of someone like Joe Haden? That is just robbing you of the chance of getting Elam (and Benford) on the field and exposing them to some real football. What are you gonna do? Wrap them in cotton wool? Let's get them on the field, let them take some lumps and hopefully they are then ready to help us down the stretch and in the post-season.

Well said as always GB.  I only pointed that out for the nervy posters, and although possible, I don’t think they pull the trigger on Haden.  My guess is the earliest we see Tre is the Chiefs.  With that said, they may play it safe and keep him practicing only until the Packers.

 

I do see the inside penetrating more, and as a result, the mobile QB’s will have to roll out more than they like.  Lamar is not a good passer and after 5 years he is what he is as a player.

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Just now, machine gun kelly said:

Well said as always GB.  I only pointed that out for the nervy posters, and although possible, I don’t think they pull the trigger on Haden.  My guess is the earliest we see Tre is the Chiefs.  With that said, they may play it safe and keep him practicing only until the Packers.

 

I do see the inside penetrating more, and as a result, the mobile QB’s will have to roll out more than they like.  Lamar is not a good passer and after 5 years he is what he is as a player.

 

If they had brought Haden in pre-draft and then given themselves more leeway to do other things in the draft that is different. But you don't redshirt a 1st round corner behind a guy like Joe Haden. Nobody does that. Sure, Tre's injury means that Elam is going to have to start v the Superbowl champs week 1 which is probably not the ideal situation but this is the National Football League. Time to put on your big boy pants and go out there and compete. He might take some lumps early. That would be normal. But hiding him does nobody any good. 

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So, of the four games he’ll miss, I think we’ll only really miss him in two of them — at LA and at Miami.  Those teams have the WR corps to do damage.  Tennessee and Baltimore aren’t scaring anyone with their passing games.

 

As others have noted, this staff’s ability to coach up DBs, combined with what we all expect will be an enhanced DL, relieves my anxiety considerably.  I’m glad they are being patient with Tre and making sure he is 100% before returning.

 

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For those listening to Sal’s stint on WGR right now, that was me that was the caller, and made these points that I wrote.  FWIW the guys agreed with my points.  Sal did say Settle hasn’t been practicing, but he expects when fully healthy will be a force for the Bills.

 

I also like Sal’s point there may be an expectation we play more press man coverage this year which opponents don’t have a lot of tape, so should be fun.  Elam will be much more effective early getting to play man, as that is what he did at UF.  I watched him for his years at UF as all their games air in Tampa.  Elam was very effective on man.  Granted it’s college, but it is the SEC.

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14 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Horror No GIF by Aardman Animations
 

Expected, but disappointing. Young cats will have to step up. If it’s one thing I don’t worry about with this team, it’s McD, Frazier, and Butler’s ability to coach up the DBs. I’d rather have Tre for the stretch run than game 1 (even with the tough start to the season). 

The same coaching staff that put us in Prevent Defense with 13 seconds left giving Cheetah & Zeus 20 yards to play with… I’m not losing confidence in this staff but I don’t have complete faith in them to not worry. 

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1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:

The same coaching staff that put us in Prevent Defense with 13 seconds left giving Cheetah & Zeus 20 yards to play with… I’m not losing confidence in this staff but I don’t have complete faith in them to not worry. 

Fair to criticize that moment. Who among us hasn’t? The distinction between my point and yours (to me) is the mistakes made at the end of that game (against one of the best offenses and QBs in the league no less) are not a reflection of their overall ability to coach up the DBs. They wouldn’t have been in that game if they couldn’t get the best out of the rest of the guys on the roster at the position after Tre went down. They were 13 seconds away from making the AFCCG with a 4th round, 7th round, and UDFA at corner. On the #1 ranked defense. No question they made mistakes to end that game, but overall pretty remarkable what they were able to do to coach those guys up and not go in the tank when Tre went down. 

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6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I haven't paid much attention to Haden but from what I've been hearing, he's been pretty bad the last year or so?

I wouldn’t say bad exactly but has had some injuries with Steelers. Going off of the public recruiting of him over the summer being done by Von and Diggs, he or another vet could be signed after week 1 as a possibility. 

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6 hours ago, eball said:

So, of the four games he’ll miss, I think we’ll only really miss him in two of them — at LA and at Miami.  Those teams have the WR corps to do damage.  Tennessee and Baltimore aren’t scaring anyone with their passing games.

 

As others have noted, this staff’s ability to coach up DBs, combined with what we all expect will be an enhanced DL, relieves my anxiety considerably.  I’m glad they are being patient with Tre and making sure he is 100% before returning.

 

 

This is why I see this team getting off a to a slow start this year.

 

Facing an offense like the Rams and defending champs in the opening game with the likes of Dane Jackson and 2 rookies is a recipe for disaster.

 

Also hate the idea of playing a hungry Dolphins team with Tyreek Hill who has torched this team even with White healthly and in the lineup.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is why I see this team getting off a to a slow start this year.

 

Facing an offense like the Rams and defending champs in the opening game with the likes of Dane Jackson and 2 rookies is a recipe for disaster.

 

Also hate the idea of playing a hungry Dolphins team with Tyreek Hill who has torched this team even with White healthly and in the lineup.

 

 

the phins are no worry.  they actually had a caller on sirius nfl yesterday who was trying to get the hosts to go along with the idea of miami winning the east.  they just laughed him off.  The point was even made that miami needs to win a single game against buffalo first, and then they can talk.  there's been total domination of miami by josh, and phin fans are delusional.  Just to add to the level of delusion, Kirwan asked the caller if he was the same guy who said he would take tua over josh.  the called doubled down and said yes...again.   The miami staff and media have their fans completely fooled that this year may be different.

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9 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is why I see this team getting off a to a slow start this year.

 

Facing an offense like the Rams and defending champs in the opening game with the likes of Dane Jackson and 2 rookies is a recipe for disaster.

 

Also hate the idea of playing a hungry Dolphins team with Tyreek Hill who has torched this team even with White healthly and in the lineup.

 

 

What if I told you Elam and Benford are better than what we had last year 

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23 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

What if I told you Elam and Benford are better than what we had last year 

 

I'd say your full of crap because no one honestly knows.

 

The very well might be down the road but asking 2 pure rookies (regardless of draft status) to play at an effective level from day one against an offense like the Rams is foolish and shortsighted thinking by this team.

 

Beane loves to think he's the smartest guy in the room and the fans that grovel over him feed narrative, but he's already proven to be dead wrong so many times and not signing a veteran QB on a team with SB aspirations shows his lack of foresight.

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2 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I'd say your full of crap because no one honestly knows.

 

The very well might be down the road but asking 2 pure rookies (regardless of draft status) to play at an effective level from day one against an offense like the Rams is foolish and shortsighted thinking by this team.

 

Beane loves to think he's the smartest guy in the room and the fans that grovel over him feed narrative, but he's already proven to be dead wrong so many times and not signing a veteran QB on a team with SB aspirations shows his lack of foresight.

I trust McDermott and Beane. If they were concerned they would of signed a vet cb. They haven't. 

 

I watched them with my eyes, both are huge upgrades( especially athletically) over what we had last year. Especially in man

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29 minutes ago, teef said:

the phins are no worry.  they actually had a caller on sirius nfl yesterday who was trying to get the hosts to go along with the idea of miami winning the east.  they just laughed him off.  The point was even made that miami needs to win a single game against buffalo first, and then they can talk.  there's been total domination of miami by josh, and phin fans are delusional.  Just to add to the level of delusion, Kirwan asked the caller if he was the same guy who said he would take tua over josh.  the called doubled down and said yes...again.   The miami staff and media have their fans completely fooled that this year may be different.

 

I agree that that until the Fish actually beat this team there's nothing to worry about, but my concern is that they will finally do that in week 3 and get over the hump.

 

And it's the confidence booster that could go a long way looking at how their schedule lines up down the road with a lot of winnable games similar to the Bills after a brutal start.

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21 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Drafting a first round CB was to fill the hole next to White

 

No, that’s not the case. Dane Jackson proved he could fill that hole last year when White was out. If Dane Jackson could preform with Levi Wallace opposite of him, clearly he can with White opposite of him. 
 

Drafting a cb in the first was absolutely done with the idea White may be out for some time, and trying to pair top end talent to work with Dane during White’s absence. Getting Benford and him looking good is an added bonus. 

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41 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is why I see this team getting off a to a slow start this year.

 

Facing an offense like the Rams and defending champs in the opening game with the likes of Dane Jackson and 2 rookies is a recipe for disaster.

 

Also hate the idea of playing a hungry Dolphins team with Tyreek Hill who has torched this team even with White healthly and in the lineup.

 

 

 

"Maybe" the young outside corners struggle, but I refuse to worry about starting a RD1 rookie and Dane Jackson when the rest of the Defense is as follows:

 

Von Miller - Ed Oliver - Daquan Jones - Greg Rousseau

 

AJ Epenesa - Tim Settle - Jordan Phillips - Boogie Basham - Shaq Lawson

 

Tremaine Edmunds - Matt Milano - Taron Johnson

 

Jordan Poyer - Micah Hyde

 

Figure. It. Out. 

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18 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said:

 

No I don't understand that, he wasn't let go he was signed by the Steelers as a free agent. He wasn't the only defensive back to have a terrible game, both our all pro safeties got lit up also. I prefer a guy who has been there and done that, having 2 rookies trying to learn the ropes in a SB window is just irresponsible. Again if both the rookies play like all pro's then they dodged a bullet but if they don't we may be scrambling to find some help. I don't hate the Bills or the coaching staff and I'm not saying we'll lose every game because of it but it seems we've neglected to add veterans back there for some odd reason.

Only 1 rookie is starting, the other spot is Dane’s. It’s not the same, but McDermott drafted White at 27 and he started as a rookie.
 

Knowing we would most likely need a body to play opposite of Dane while White recovers, the FO took another 1st round CB with similar intentions as the year White was drafted. I don’t think that’s a bad plan at all. I also thought a vet would be brought in, but, I also trust this front office, especially with DB’s. 
 

I personally believe if the Bills weren’t happy with what they were seeing in training camp/preseason, they would bring in a vet. I think Benford stepping up was nice pleasant surprise and it will be interesting to see who can lock down the spot opposite Dane, until White gets back. 

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