OJ Howard

[Warriorspikes51]

Okay, I keep hearing most people talking about how Howard hasn't shown anything and many seem to want him cut or traded if there's any takers.

Am I alone in thinking he actually looked sneaky good?

He's shown good blocking.  He's been lined up out wide and the few times he was thrown the ball he made plays including the TD.

in Carolina he had a red zone route where he absolutely exploded off the snap

I see him as being TE2 and a regular factor in red zone due to his size.  

I would also keep Morris

Thoughts? 

[Forlorn hope]

I think Morris is clearly the better athlete and Sweeney is the better blocker and cheaper. They will try to trade him or just dfr him for depth

[Bangarang]

He hasn’t been good. 
 

It’s not a good sign when you’re still invisible in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. 

[Forlorn hope]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

What have you been watching?

Go watch the Denver game. Sweeney was absolutely crushing ppl as an in line te blocker.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

I think Morris is clearly the better athlete and Sweeney is the better blocker and cheaper. They will try to trade him or just dfr him for depth

What makes you think Sweeney is a better blocker?  He’s a terrible blocker.  Oj can at least run block.  
 

Regarding Morris, I agree and would’ve be upset if he took OJs job.  
 

jurt not Sweeney.  Time for him to go 🙏🏻 

[KDIGGZ]

He would take snaps away from Morris at this point if he even sees the field because they also like Sweeney for whatever reason (mostly off-field). I don't think the Bills expected Morris to play as good as he has been. He looks like a bruiser out there and all we heard about was how big Howard was but I haven't seen him play as physical as Morris. On paper Howard is supposed to be this physically gifted athlete but I just haven't seen it

[Son of a K-Gun]

Much has been made about Howard playing with reserves into the 4th quarter in all three preseason games but I feel that has been a little overblown.  Outside of (I think?) the first game, the Bills have only dressed three TE's.  With the number of 2 TE sets they have been running, along with Morris taking snaps in the Gilliam backup role, Howard may be on the field in the 4th quarter out of necessity.  Wasn't Sweeney dinged up in the first game as well, which may have prompted Howard getting put back in late.

The one thing Howard brings to the table that none of the other TE's have his size...something tells me that there are packages that have been designed to use his size and skillset that we obviously haven't seen in preseason.  If that is the case and he is showing the coaches what they need to see in practice then he still has a good chance to stick with the team.

Howard hasn't looked terrible, he just hasn't really stood out much above Sweeney and Morris.  If (big if) Beane can deal him and move that salary then I think the Bills will move him.  I don't think he's getting outright released though. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

8 minutes ago, Forlorn hope said:

I think Morris is clearly the better athlete and Sweeney is the better blocker and cheaper. They will try to trade him or just dfr him for depth

 

Is Sweeney the better blocker? My understanding is that OJ is a great blocker.

[Forlorn hope]

3 minutes ago, Tom Donahoe, GM said:

 

Is Sweeney the better blocker? My understanding is that OJ is a great blocker.

Agree to disagree, but Howard looks like the lower leg injuries have broken him down. Jmo 

 

Ppl here really underestimate Sweeney. I don't think he was 100% last year with the myocarditis 

Sweeney really shined his rookie year 

[Realist]

In Friday's game, every time I looked up Sweeney and Capra were missing blocks left and right. They might as well have been holding red capes. Definitely would rather have Morris than Sweeney.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I keep howard only for the fact that he has experience being a starter

 

When knox went down for a game or 2 last season the offense didn't as good, seemed out of sorts 

 

I'll add that I have really liked Morris and think he will be number 2, if he performs well in the start of the season thats when I look to trade Howard near the dead line 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Cheektowaga Chad

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Okay, I keep hearing most people talking about how Howard hasn't shown anything and many seem to want him cut or traded if there's any takers.

Am I alone in thinking he actually looked sneaky good?

He's shown good blocking.  He's been lined up out wide and the few times he was thrown the ball he made plays including the TD.

in Carolina he had a red zone route where he absolutely exploded off the snap

I see him as being TE2 and a regular factor in red zone due to his size.  

I would also keep Morris

Thoughts? 

 

Cover1 did a good video on this

 

 

Their conclusion is that who the Bills keep may depend upon exactly what they're looking for from the position

 

If they want the best blockers, they keep Howard and Sweeney

If they want the best receivers, they keep Morris and maybe Howard as a red-zone target

None of the three seem to be a complete all around TE

 

My take:

Howard has blocked well at times but he's also whiffed bad at times.  He doesn't seem to have the power you'd expect from a big TE.

 

Sweeney has strength and power, and he blocks well when linemen approach him with power, but against starting front-7 in the league who have speed and use leverage well, he just gets moved aside.  He can't be counted on as an in-line blocker which is why the Bils went to putting in a 6th OLman like Bates and then Doyle last season.  As a receiver, he has sometimes been noticed for the wrong reason (not catching) but then he'll make a couple good receptions.

 

Morris can't block in-line, but he's a good ?angle blocker? in the style of an RB or WR.  He's a reliable receiver

 

Bottom line none of them seem to be a complete TE, so it's gonna depend upon what traits Dorsey most values.  I would like to see the Bills minding the cutout bin as well.

[InTheBuffAllTheTime]

Good problem to have - so many players with valuable skill sets. Admittedly I haven't seen much from Howard but that doesn't mean the coaches don't value him. I also haven't seen a lot of flash from Sweeney - just a hard worker and popular teammate.

 

The great part today is we only have to wait until tomorrow - and maybe the day after with post-cutdown transactions - to know for sure.

 

If the coaches view their talents and projected production as similar, go with less cost and locker room fav - assuming of course they find a trade partner for Howard.

 

Go Bills!

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

15 minutes ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

Much has been made about Howard playing with reserves into the 4th quarter in all three preseason games but I feel that has been a little overblown.  Outside of (I think?) the first game, the Bills have only dressed three TE's.  With the number of 2 TE sets they have been running, along with Morris taking snaps in the Gilliam backup role, Howard may be on the field in the 4th quarter out of necessity.  Wasn't Sweeney dinged up in the first game as well, which may have prompted Howard getting put back in late.

The one thing Howard brings to the table that none of the other TE's have his size...something tells me that there are packages that have been designed to use his size and skillset that we obviously haven't seen in preseason.  If that is the case and he is showing the coaches what they need to see in practice then he still has a good chance to stick with the team.

Howard hasn't looked terrible, he just hasn't really stood out much above Sweeney and Morris.  If (big if) Beane can deal him and move that salary then I think the Bills will move him.  I don't think he's getting outright released though. 

 

But why in the beginning of the Denver game without Knox, the two playing with the starters were Morris mostly and some Sweeney?  Howard only came in later and played till the end.

 

Of the 3 I think Howard is the best blocker and most experienced, but isn't going to cause defenses to worry much, likely not going to give much YAC.  But if I have 3rd and 3 and want to go wit ha 2 TE set, I'd put Howard in either as a blocker or to run a 4 yard slant or something.  If it were 1st and 10 and going 2 TE set, I'd instead go with Morris as he could break one open.

 

So where does that leave Sweeeny, IMO hoping they trade or just decide to take their losses and cut Howard. 

 

Overall think Howard provides more than Sweeney with the exception being ST plays, but maybe Morris can take Sweeney's spot there.  Also think easier to sneak Sweeney onto PS than Morris.

[Warriorspikes51]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

But why in the beginning of the Denver game without Knox, the two playing with the starters were Morris mostly and some Sweeney?  Howard only came in later and played till the end.

 

Of the 3 I think Howard is the best blocker and most experienced, but isn't going to cause defenses to worry much, likely not going to give much YAC.  But if I have 3rd and 3 and want to go wit ha 2 TE set, I'd put Howard in either as a blocker or to run a 4 yard slant or something.  If it were 1st and 10 and going 2 TE set, I'd instead go with Morris as he could break one open.

 

So where does that leave Sweeeny, IMO hoping they trade or just decide to take their losses and cut Howard. 

 

Overall think Howard provides more than Sweeney with the exception being ST plays, but maybe Morris can take Sweeney's spot there.  Also think easier to sneak Sweeney onto PS than Morris.

Not sure I agree.  He is a massive target

[billybrew1]

I just found out we lose 3 mill over two years waiving Howard. Howard isn’t going anywhere…..

[Buffalo_Stampede]

30 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

He hasn’t been good. 
 

It’s not a good sign when you’re still invisible in the 4th quarter of a preseason game. 

He’s the perfect TE2. When we got him I thought he could be TE1B but he’s not looking like that. He’s a good blocker and a large target. He’ll be better in the pass game with better talent around him. 
 

I would keep Knox, Howard, and Morris. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Charles Romes]

Howard’s legs are shot. He can’t plant and cut, and he’s rounding off all his routes. There is no sudden-ness. He’s trying but his legs just don’t work anymore. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

It was mentioned on Joe B's pod (or maybe Cover1?) that Howard is seen very much as the second TE, not the #2 TE, if that makes sense.  Howard is who they see in 2 TE sets, but if Knox were to go down it would more likely be Morris or Sweeney that would replace Knox as the #1 TE with Howard remaining as the second TE in 2 TE sets.  Reading between the lines, I can see where there would be plays in Dorsey's offense, probably short yardage and goal line situations, that have been installed for a great big giant of a TE...there is only one guy on the roster that fits that description and I'm not talking about Tommy Doyle.

[clayboy54]

3 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Howard’s legs are shot. He can’t plant and cut, and he’s rounding off all his routes. There is no sudden-ness. He’s trying but his legs just don’t work anymore. 

Due to his many injuries, he has less time on those legs than many rookies. My feeling is he is shell-shocked from those countless injuries.

[Wayne Arnold]

43 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Okay, I keep hearing most people talking about how Howard hasn't shown anything and many seem to want him cut or traded if there's any takers.

Am I alone in thinking he actually looked sneaky good?

He's shown good blocking.  He's been lined up out wide and the few times he was thrown the ball he made plays including the TD.

in Carolina he had a red zone route where he absolutely exploded off the snap

I see him as being TE2 and a regular factor in red zone due to his size.  

I would also keep Morris

Thoughts? 

 

He's brand new to this offensive system. Sometimes it takes guys time.

 

Howard is a great physical talent. His contract this year is fully guaranteed. Those two reasons alone likely means he's safe.

 

Should keep Knox, Howard and Morris. Sweeney is as good as he's ever going to be, which isn't good enough.

[Beck Water]

This is another TE discussion from a Cover1 pod after the Denver game

 

 

[ddaryl]

My belief is Howard and Morris

Sweeney has peaked... Morris shows decent blocking and very good at receiving / running routes. Howard shows he can block well and thats what we need for those 2 TE sets, Plus he could be an asset inside the 20

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s the perfect TE2. When we got him I thought he could be TE1B but he’s not looking like that. He’s a good blocker and a large target. He’ll be better in the pass game with better talent around him. 
 

I would keep Knox, Howard, and Morris. 

He was a complete non factor going against 3rd stringers but I’m supposed to believe he’ll produce more when he’s going against starters and guys like Diggs, Davis, McKenzie and Knox are dominating the target share? 
 

I think his last 2 years with the Bucs or likely what you’re going to get and it’s not much. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bangarang

[gonzo1105]

He has been good at doing the smaller things. I said a couple of weeks ago that he should really be expected to be Lee Smith at this point, which is great. He’s a good blocker, have him catch some red zone TDs. 
 

The problem is everyone was expecting the 1st round explosive Alabama OJ Howard so that’s where the huge disappointment comes in. People feel like they were sold a bag of goods on him. People feel like Morris can stretch the seams more downfield. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Basing everything on his playing time in pre-season - he's garbage and should be cut.  

 

Based on camp rumors?  I would say they are challenging him to secure a role as the primary TE2 for specific game packages.  They want some flexibility to split out wide, and they want him to block.  

 

I think they'll keep a 3rd as a reserve more for the primary knox role in the offense. 

[Matt_In_NH]

They have told us by playing time they like Morris better.   Do they keep three?   I think Sweeney is the odd man out. 

[ColoradoBills]

Even after the Bills eating $700k after a trade involving Howard, I just don't think Beane can find a team to bite.

If he does it will be in the next 24 hours.

 

Howard probably sticks as others have said for 2 TE sets and they keep Morris (who will not dress in a lot of games) as a Knox

replacement if he gets dinged up.  Morris has much more upside I believe than Sweeney.

 

That being said the Bills can't be happy with Howards overall play in camp/preseason.  I know I'm not.  He hasn't performed for the

money they laid out on his contract.

 

Sweeney might get claimed and if he does Beane will need to find another TE for the PS.

[In Summary]

Asking a question here:  Where does Reggie Gilliam fit into any TE role/depth?  Is he at best just a duplicate in blocking for Howard and Sweeney or does he offer more?  

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, In Summary said:

Asking a question here:  Where does Reggie Gilliam fit into any TE role/depth?  Is he at best just a duplicate in blocking for Howard and Sweeney or does he offer more?  

 

I'm going by the Dorsey presser a couple of weeks ago.  He said he wants Gilliam as a true FB only.  He wasn't using him in TE sets at all.

[Don Otreply]

Howard will be TE 2, he was never in danger of being cut, he is better overall than his competition, add in the cash hit for releasing him and it becomes obvious, 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Forlorn hope said:

I think Morris is clearly the better athlete and Sweeney is the better blocker and cheaper. They will try to trade him or just dfr him for depth

Howard’s contract is already guaranteed. If cut, he counts the same.  The only cap space in doubt is $255k total in per game active roster bonuses. If they don’t want him, the Bills would be better off trading him even if they had to eat some salary. 

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/oj-howard-21760/

[eball]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly they should be scrounging the waiver wire as Howard, Sweeney and Morris are all scrubs at this point… Out of all 3 I’d keep Howard. 

 

The Great Talent Evaluator has spoken!

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Honestly they should be scrounging the waiver wire as Howard, Sweeney and Morris are all scrubs at this point… Out of all 3 I’d keep Howard. 

 

Morris has a chance to develop.  I mean there was a lot of this board calling Knox "a scrub" at the start of last season.  'member?

[Airseven]

He still doesn't seem fully recovered from the injury, perhaps never will be. I bet they've shopped him with no takers. Morris's injury mucks things up a bit, at least regarding tomorrow's initial 53, so I think Howard makes it.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Morris has a chance to develop.  I mean there was a lot of this board calling Knox "a scrub" at the start of last season.  'member?

 

I think there's a reason that when Morris was obviously in pain, both McDermott and Beane hustled over to check on him.

I don't think it's because he's not in their plans.

 

 

 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Morris has a chance to develop.  I mean there was a lot of this board calling Knox "a scrub" at the start of last season.  'member?

 

It would not surprise me in the least if @ScottLaw was "ready to move on" from Dawson Knox after his 2nd season.

[Jay_Fixit]

He’s just not good.

[machine gun kelly]

5 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Okay, I keep hearing most people talking about how Howard hasn't shown anything and many seem to want him cut or traded if there's any takers.

Am I alone in thinking he actually looked sneaky good?

He's shown good blocking.  He's been lined up out wide and the few times he was thrown the ball he made plays including the TD.

in Carolina he had a red zone route where he absolutely exploded off the snap

I see him as being TE2 and a regular factor in red zone due to his size.  

I would also keep Morris

Thoughts? 

 

I can’t remember the name of the guest who was on with Joe on the extra point show, but he made good points that Howard is a better blocker than Sweeney and is why we brought him in here as well as a big and tough red zone target.

 

Morris went down today with a hammy, so we’ll see.  He is much closer to Knox then the others.  Sweeney is most likely a cut, if a little serious Morris to PUP, and it’s Knox and Howard.

 

Howard may not have the explosiveness he had at Alabama, but if he can be what I described above, he can help.

 

Sweeney is useless.  A nice guy, but looked horrible when he had to step up last year.

 

Thats my gut.  I’m not saying I’m right, just my POV.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… Unfair of me to call Morris a scrub…. Sweeney absolutely is though.

 

I'm glad you rephrased Morris.  As for Sweeney his is a borderline TE3 JAG / PS TE in my opinion.

Lots of JAG TEs in the league every year.