Matt Araiza accused of rape, served with a lawsuit.

[Believer]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

The team should give him as much time as needed to deal with this personal issue and suspend him until such time that that it is resolved in a court of law.  

As soon as the LA Times story broke, I posted he should be cut within days… I like your solution better… Suspend him…Get him away from the team and the city this week… Let him resolve his legal situation … Decide later about his future with the Bills…

[Dan]

3 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Honestly the most disturbing part of this thread for me is the notion that "he's just a punter" -- and of course, the implication thereof that if he were of a position more important to winning games, we could afford to weather the media storm until the truth came out or potentially even after. 

 

Just goes to show most people's moral high ground is directly proportional to how useful someone is to their needs. Funny how that works. 

My point with saying.. he’s just a punter, is only to imply that its immensely easier to replace him.    If this all happens with your franchise QB,  honestly I’d make the dame statement.  But you then recognize that that decisions completely tanks your season and perhaps many more seasons.   So, yes, it would be a far more impactful decision.  

[boyst]

39 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

C'Mon man. 

 

There are differences between re-tweeting some TV show quotes in HS, and allegations that a player participated in a gang-rape of a young woman which left her with photos of marks on her neck and legs and blood on her clothing.

And what player is supposed to have "beat up his GF"?  If you mean Tyrell Dodson, that's a big stretch from what's described in the police report, and he took a 6 game suspension for it despite the charge being dismissed.  So what's "fair" about leaving Araiza on the team getting paid while this plays out?

 

Be that as it may, the NFL is a business, it's not about being "fair".  That's all spelled out in the Player Conduct Policy.  And truthfully, it's the unwritten law in every business where PR matters: the first law is Don't Make Your Employer Look Bad.  the second law is Don't Make Your Boss Look Bad.

What's fair is the truth. You don't have it yet. I don't have it yet. The Bills/employer doesn't have it yet. Araiza may not even have it, to be honest. 

 

I 100% hope he remains on the team until if or when criminally convicted.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 hours ago, SDS said:

 

I woke up to two complaints on my Saturday:

 

1. Is no where safe from the rape accusations talk?

2. We need 25 (or 137) different topics all talking about nuanced aspects of this issue. (Which, in my experience, is totally realistic given this community's self-discipline to stay on topic and love of nuanced discourse.)

 

The only thing I know for certain, is we are handling it wrong.

 

I get preventing the LAMP threads. We are on page 227 of a story that is 2 or 3 days old. There is no conversation because it is just a bunch of different topics. A thread about “which punters may be available” is certainly appropriate IMO. I watched good conversation get thrown into here immediately. I’m not reading 227 pages to piece together those thoughts. I’ll follow along on twitter I guess. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Kirby Jackson

[Big Blitz]

19 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The chiefs drafted a guy who was convicted of throwing his pregnant GF down the stairs. No one in the media cared. He’s a celebrated player now. I’m just saying, why was that. 
 

https://www.sportscasting.com/tyreek-hill-brutally-beat-and-choked-his-pregnant-girlfriend-in-college-but-never-saw-any-jail-time/

 

 

Everything changed after the Kavanaugh hearings.  

 

This is fact and not to be political.

 

Despite Duke Lacrosse and countless others - if you don't believe the woman you support rape.

 

Irrational virtue signaling and a need to sound morally superior when all they are is emotional ignorant people.  

 

Everything in this country is **s backwards.  

 

 

I understand the problem in sexual assault and how traditionally its difficult to first of all women to come forward.....and then get charges let alone convictions.  

 

That absolutely does not mean you just "believe all women."  I want to, but we need evidence. 

 

 

 

In the case of Watson, we have evidence pointing directly to him of assault and harassment.  Criminal?  I don't know.  Face of your franchise?  Nope.  

 

In the case of Araiza we have an allegation of him having sex with a woman claiming she was raped by other men at a party where apparently no one knows anything?

 

No Criminal charges.  No day in court.  Too many questions still.  

 

All this being said, it doesn't matter if McD believes they were lied to about any major detail.  

Edited August 27, 2022 by Big Blitz

[That's No Moon]

35 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Yeah, sometimes finding the truth gets messy. Jumping to a conclusion can also create more "circus"

Opting out of the drama isn't the same thing as jumping to a conclusion. 

[Yobogoya!]

2 minutes ago, Dan said:

My point with saying.. he’s just a punter, is only to imply that its immensely easier to replace him.    If this all happens with your franchise QB,  honestly I’d make the dame statement.  But you then recognize that that decisions completely tanks your season and perhaps many more seasons.   So, yes, it would be a far more impactful decision.  

 

I think it goes without saying that a team can find a serviceable punter far easier than a franchise QB. 

 

Most of the people who are taking the "wait and see" stance right now are doing so because a man's life and reputation are at stake, not because we're concerned with punting the ball in 2022. 

[Rigotz]

Just had a random thought…

 

If the Bills cut Araiza, there’s a good chance they could stash him on their practice squad until the details are fully vetted.

 

I doubt another franchise would be willing to put him on their practice squad or active roster, given the horrible optics. 
 

If there’s a good enough chance that he DIDNT do this, that might be a preferable options vs keeping him on the active roster.

[NickelCity]

My guess over time (I obviously have no idea and want justice served above all) is that he'll be acquitted of serious charges to the point where he'd be deemed employable by an NFL team.

 

Short of something like a commissioners  exemption, I'm not sure how he'll be a Bill.

[Big Blitz]

9 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

100% of the currently public info originated with the accuser.  It may indeed be the whole story.  If not, and somehow Araiza is telling truth to the Bills and they cut him for PR, how does that go over in the room when 3 months from now when more facts come out?  Yes, the press will drop it, but as McD pointed out there are people involved.  
 

The correct remedies are so simple to apply once the truth is known.  Personally I’d cut him even if he had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident but covered it up for his buddies.  If he lied at all to the Bills, bye.  Obviously anything beyond that he should rot in jail.  If he is exonerated but still cut, I think that is a bad look in the room.  People matter.  The truth matters.  

 

 

 

This is my concern with the Bills.  

 

If they cut him, after knowing what they knew, it looks like you did it solely because of public pressure - another reason I wanted this to play out in Court or however.  They determined that there is more then we know.  

 

We look bad.  I don't want my team to look bad.  I want it to have done the right thing.  They took the same approach with Shady but I don't know if that was Beane or Whaley.  It's not like we haven't been here before recently.  

 

 

So if they cut him it better dam well be because they learned details in the story they did not know.  

Edited August 27, 2022 by Big Blitz

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

I think it goes without saying that a team can find a serviceable punter far easier than a franchise QB. 

 

Most of the people who are taking the "wait and see" stance right now are doing so because a man's life and reputation are at stake, not because we're concerned with punting the ball in 2022. 

100% 

 

I don’t care if he’s the backup safety.. For me, this is about principle. 
 

Some view integrity as cutting a guy based on allegations.  Others view integrity as standing by a guy who proclaims his innocence, unless proven otherwise.  
 

We all have different moral compasses. 
 

It would have been cool to have a novelty punter who may also be an absolute weapon in Special Teams.  That’s it though … it would have been cool … not necessary, not important.. just kinda cool.  
 

We will be the same Super Bowl contender for years to come with him or without him.  

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

This is my concern with the Bills.  

 

If they cut him, after knowing what they knew, it looks like you did it solely because of public pressure - another reason I wanted this to play out in Court or however.  They determined that there is more then we know.  

 

We look bad.  I don't want my team to look bad.  I want it to have done the right thing.  They took the same approach with Shady but I don't know if that was Beane or Whaley.

 

 

So if they cut him it better dam well be because they learned details in the story they did not know.  

They (McD) have already said there is new information they did not know.

 

[LabattBlue]

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Just had a random thought…

 

If the Bills cut Araiza, there’s a good chance they could stash him on their practice squad until the details are fully vetted.

 

I doubt another franchise would be willing to put him on their practice squad or active roster, given the horrible optics. 
 

If there’s a good enough chance that he DIDNT do this, that might be a preferable options vs keeping him on the active roster.

No other team but the Bills would want to “stash” him on their practice squad? If it would look horrible for other teams to sign him, wouldn’t the same apply to the Bills?

Edited August 27, 2022 by BTB

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Its Gonna Be Chilly said:

 

Really? In San Diego? 

 

 

 

Did you see the video of the student apartment as reported, or just playing devils advocate that it may have been at some resort? 

 

Araiza's attorney said he wouldn't go as far to charecturize the evening as a "party" it was more like a small gathering of friends.

[stevestojan]

Checking in this morning. I’m assuming  we’ve cleared up all disagreements? 

[RiotAct]

7 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Just had a random thought…

 

If the Bills cut Araiza, there’s a good chance they could stash him on their practice squad until the details are fully vetted.

 

I doubt another franchise would be willing to put him on their practice squad or active roster, given the horrible optics. 
 

If there’s a good enough chance that he DIDNT do this, that might be a preferable options vs keeping him on the active roster.

That’s an interesting thought.  I don’t think he’d clear waivers, but who knows.

[SCBills]

Just now, Mike in Horseheads said:

They (McD) have already said there is new information they did not know.

 

If I had to guess .. it’s likely not having to do with whether they believe he’s innocent or guilty, but ancillary stuff they may feel misled on.  
 

Maybe they thought this was wrapped up.  Maybe they didn’t know she was 17 at the time.  Maybe there are details they feel Araiza should have informed them of that he didn’t.  
 

But I highly doubt they went from “we believe he’s innocent” to “holy **** we have a rapist on our team” overnight. 

[RiotAct]

Just now, stevestojan said:

Checking in this morning. I’m assuming  we’ve cleared up all disagreements? 

yep - you missed a really good rendition of “Kumbaaya”.

[SectionC3]

18 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Could the Bills be at risk of a libel lawsuit if they cut him for this and he is in fact innocent. 

 

 

 

Sure.  Anyone can sue anyone for anything.  But that's a lawsuit that undoubtedly would be quickly dismissed. 

[JimBob2232]

I wish Kim pegula was healthy enough to make a statement here.  Her voice is missed right now. 

[Dan]

7 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

I think it goes without saying that a team can find a serviceable punter far easier than a franchise QB. 

 

Most of the people who are taking the "wait and see" stance right now are doing so because a man's life and reputation are at stake, not because we're concerned with punting the ball in 2022. 

Which is why my thought would be a suspension.   He can concentrate on his personal life, while the team concentrates on a game.  When it is all resolved and him and the players around him are able to focus entirely on football; then you make a determination about his future with the Bills.   ...and presumably at that point, they would know the more complete details of the situation and could more clearly sypport their decision.
 

 

 

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Everything changed after the Kavanaugh hearings.  

 

This is fact and not to be political.

 

Despite Duke Lacrosse and countless others - if you don't believe the woman you support rape.

 

Irrational virtue signaling and a need to sound morally superior when all they are is emotional ignorant people.  

 

Everything in this country is **s backwards.  

 

 

I understand the problem in sexual assault and how traditionally its difficult to first of all women to come forward.....and then get charges let alone convictions.  

 

That absolutely does not mean you just "believe all women."  I want to, but we need evidence. 

 

 

 

In the case of Watson, we have evidence pointing directly to him of assault and harassment.  Criminal?  I don't know.  Face of your franchise?  Nope.  

 

In the case of Araiza we have an allegation of him having sex with a woman claiming she was raped by other men at a party where apparently no one knows anything?

 

No Criminal charges.  No day in court.  Too many questions still.  

 

All this being said, it doesn't matter if McD believes they were lied to about any major detail.  

That will be the reason for firing him when they get around to it later this weekend. 

[aceman_16]

14 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

100% of the currently public info originated with the accuser.  It may indeed be the whole story.  If not, and somehow Araiza is telling truth to the Bills and they cut him for PR, how does that go over in the room when 3 months from now when more facts come out?  Yes, the press will drop it, but as McD pointed out there are people involved.  
 

The correct remedies are so simple to apply once the truth is known.  Personally I’d cut him even if he had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident but covered it up for his buddies.  If he lied at all to the Bills, bye.  Obviously anything beyond that he should rot in jail.  If he is exonerated but still cut, I think that is a bad look in the room.  People matter.  The truth matters.  

I just find it absolutely gross people have different standards based on positional importance. It truly is a sign of a sick culture we live in aka certain "lives" matter while others dont.

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

100% speculation here….

 

But the thing I find the most interesting is the recorded phone call. Supposedly he admits to hooking up. This call came 10 days after. But he also makes the comments that she should be tested for STDs.

 

As guys we know that type of comment is made after the fact. Meaning Matt did hook up with her, but then later found out she slept with other guys…. That’s where things went bad. 

 

If it was a g@ngg b@ng he lead supposedly, is it more likely he telling her to get tested for STDs cause he has STDs? Or basically telling her yeah we hooked up, but I know you hooked up with more dudes that night you should get tested. Like a yeah we hooked up, but you hooked up with a bunch of guys and (he didn’t like that) told her to get tested.
 

Remember this call was 10 days after the night in question, Matt was more than willing to answer the phone and talk. Most guys I’d assume would not even answer if they truly knew what had happened.

 

I think that is Matt’s side of this…. I just don’t know why someone would “lead a gng bng” then tell someone to go get tested for diseases……

 

I think that's an assumption you're making based on being a normal dude who does normal dude things and has normal dude feelings - you want some, but you're not committing assault and you would feel guilty and avoid the victim if you did something wrong.

 

I don't think that people who commit gang rapes think the same way.  Note I am not saying that MA committed a gang rape, just that your assumptions about a ***** rapist being unwilling to talk to his victim on the phone afterwards are provably invalid.

https://www.si.com/college/2015/02/09/vanderbilt-rape-case-brandon-vandenburg-cory-batey

Quote

When the police contacted the woman on June 26, three days after the assault, she says that she at first told them what Vandenburg had told her had happened: In the afternoon on the day of the assault, she testified that “he told me that I had gotten sick in his room and he had to clean it up and that it was horrible and that he had to spend the night taking care of me and it was horrible.” In response to hearing this, she said, “I apologized. I was embarrassed.”

This is a young woman whose brutal gang rape was captured live on surveillance and cell phone videos.  The trial left pretty much no question about what happened and who was involved.

[boyst]

16 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I get preventing the LAMP threads. We are on page 227 of a story that is 2 or 3 days old. There is no conversation because it is just a bunch of different topics. A thread about “which punters may be available” is certainly appropriate IMO. I watched good conversation get thrown into here immediately. I’m not reading 227 pages to piece together those thoughts. I’ll follow along on twitter I guess. 

Maybe you can tag Scott if you agree but should there be a facts and sources thread only? With tweets from relevant folks, and linked/sourced information? 

 

No hot takes or anything?

 

I think this makes sense for people just looking for updates. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

Maybe you can tag Scott if you agree but should there be a facts and sources thread only? With tweets from relevant folks, and linked/sourced information? 

 

No hot takes or anything?

 

I think this makes sense for people just looking for updates. 

Great Idea BUT, you know how this place goes.

[NoSaint]

26 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Because the media is going to hound them for every detail. What they knew, when they knew, everyone is already suspicious of the timeline. 

for how long? Less than 5 minutes?

[78thealltimegreat]

The fact is Matt should be the one having a press conference with his attorney. If he doesn’t want to answer sensitive questions due to legal issues that is  understandable but he should be out there telling people he didn’t do this or else public perception is the kid is guilty of rape. 

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yeah, I think if they cut him now, the problem pretty much goes away, and the dropoff from Araiza to whomever they sign off the street probably won't win or lose any ball games. The dilemma is that it would be unfair to Araiza, if he's in fact innocent.  And of course, he could turn out to have a great career for another team, if he's exonerated. 

 

And that's all true, but employment is not about what's fair to every employee.  It's about what best serves the interests of the employer, and in this case, the team.  Sure, good employers do care about the people who work for them as people, but in a confliction between the interests of the business and the interests of the employee, the business interest wins.  Every time.  You don't get to be a head football coach in the NFL by being a softy OTJ.

 

I think McDermott is a straight-up guy and doesn't want to kick Araiza to the curb if he's innocent, but I also think part of being straight-up may be a hard look at whether Araiza was actually fully honest and forthcoming with the team both during the pre-draft process and when the June 3rd LA Times story came out and he decided to hire a criminal defense attorney.

 

And if McDermott learned new information in the last 24 hrs, it may be a good guess that the answer to that is "no".

[Yobogoya!]

5 minutes ago, Dan said:

Which is why my thought would be a suspension.   He can concentrate on his personal life, while the team concentrates on a game.  When it is all resolved and him and the players around him are able to focus entirely on football; then you make a determination about his future with the Bills.   ...and presumably at that point, they would know the more complete details of the situation and could more clearly sypport their decision.
 

 

 

 

I believe it's been stated that a suspension or placement on the exempt list isn't possible because the incident happened before he was an NFL player. 

 

I think Araiza has more to worry about if he intentionally misled or outright lied to the Bills in the weeks leading up to Thursday, because that's going to get him cut regardless of anything else to do with the case. 

[boyst]

Just now, Mike in Horseheads said:

Great Idea BUT, you know how this place goes.

Auto banhammer of 1 month if you break the rules in the thread? 

 

@SDS what say ye?

 

A thread of news only for this? Tweets from media, articles sources, and the Bills only.

 

 No hot takes and a message that says discussion in this thread...? 

[The_Ripster]

He's in Buffalo Bills' Jail.

They are going to keep him here under a microscope until they have the full story and then crucify him for the public.

[Dan]

1 minute ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

I believe it's been stated that a suspension or placement on the exempt list isn't possible because the incident happened before he was an NFL player. 

 

I think Araiza has more to worry about if he intentionally misled or outright lied to the Bills in the weeks leading up to Thursday, because that's going to get him cut regardless of anything else to do with the case. 

Ok. If you can’t suspend him, that complicates my “simple” solution.    Maybe pay him under the table to fake an injury so he can go on the PUP list or something.   Lol. I don’t know.  I just wanna talk football and not this.  
 

But i would remove him from the locker room so football becomes the emphasis of the team.  

[klos63]

24 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Everything changed after the Kavanaugh hearings.  

 

This is fact and not to be political.

 

Despite Duke Lacrosse and countless others - if you don't believe the woman you support rape.

 

Irrational virtue signaling and a need to sound morally superior when all they are is emotional ignorant people.  

 

Everything in this country is **s backwards.  

 

 

I understand the problem in sexual assault and how traditionally its difficult to first of all women to come forward.....and then get charges let alone convictions.  

 

That absolutely does not mean you just "believe all women."  I want to, but we need evidence. 

 

 

 

In the case of Watson, we have evidence pointing directly to him of assault and harassment.  Criminal?  I don't know.  Face of your franchise?  Nope.  

 

In the case of Araiza we have an allegation of him having sex with a woman claiming she was raped by other men at a party where apparently no one knows anything?

 

No Criminal charges.  No day in court.  Too many questions still.  

 

All this being said, it doesn't matter if McD believes they were lied to about any major detail.  

You don't need to believe all women, but they should all be taken seriously and be heard.

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Has he claimed he never set foot inside?

 

 

You can't have the guy on the practice squad traveling with the team right now.

 

Araiza's attorney said it wasn't a party, it was just a gathering of football players, and that Matt Araiza never stepped foot inside the house that night.

 

At the same time, his attorney isn't denying that he had sex with a girl he just met outside the house. So he was just there to hang out in the yard and have sex? 

 

https://twitter.com/Matt_Bove/status/1562958512015101958?t=w9miHXJR1w7BuJQPujRjPA&s=19

 

[Chaos]

11 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The fact is Matt should be the one having a press conference with his attorney. If he doesn’t want to answer sensitive questions due to legal issues that is  understandable but he should be out there telling people he didn’t do this or else public perception is the kid is guilty of rape. 

So your saying the real concept is "you have the right to remain silent, anything you say may be used against you... , but if you stay quiet we will all assume that is an adminsion of guilt".  Very Orwellian. Which is sadly where are society is at these days. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

Araiza's attorney said it wasn't a party, it was just a gathering of football players, and that Matt Araiza never stepped foot inside the house that night.

 

At the same time, his attorney isn't denying that he had sex with a girl he just met outside the house. So he was just there to hang out in the yard and have sex? 

 

https://twitter.com/Matt_Bove/status/1562958512015101958?t=w9miHXJR1w7BuJQPujRjPA&s=19

 

I noticed his lawyer is contradicting himself a LOT. Couple of amateurs trying to get famous.

[boyst]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

Araiza's attorney said it wasn't a party, it was just a gathering of football players, and that Matt Araiza never stepped foot inside the house that night.

 

At the same time, his attorney isn't denying that he had sex with a girl he just met outside the house. So he was just there to hang out in the yard and have sex? 

 

https://twitter.com/Matt_Bove/status/1562958512015101958?t=w9miHXJR1w7BuJQPujRjPA&s=19

 

I know this may come across wrong but I think the average user of this site meets criteria that weren't of the average college student to relate to the average collegiate athlete.

 

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Maybe you can tag Scott if you agree but should there be a facts and sources thread only? With tweets from relevant folks, and linked/sourced information? 

 

No hot takes or anything?

 

I think this makes sense for people just looking for updates. 

yea this thread is near worthless for the story at this point 

[Chaos]

the right thing for Araiza to do is retire "to focus on defending my reputation to avoid being a distraction for the Bills" and unretire when he clears his name.  He should do this before the Bills have to cut him and make any derogatory comments about him.