Deshaun Watson admits under oath that Ashley Solis cried at the end of the massage

[buffaloboyinATL]

He will get a 3-6 game suspension and a relative slap on the wrist from the NFL. I think it is disgusting, and that the league is ridiculously hypocritical for promoting “women in football” and then turning around and letting a team give a huge, fully guaranteed contract to a serial molester. But what do I know...

[BillsShredder83]

15 minutes ago, papazoid said:

guy getting a massage gets aroused, tosses his towel to the side and asks for a happy ending

 

if thats a crime....build more prisons

There's degrees to a crime. If this was at a Spa Envy, that would be absolute highest degree of gross... but there's somewhat of a middle ground here. Seems atleast several of these women were sex workers.

 

Not something you sweep up and ignore, but also not the worst degree of the crimes either. I won't be surprised when the defense introduces evidence that these woman were tugging other dudes for money. Wonder how much if at all, that would change public opinion.

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Wrong. The team would have him examined by an independent physician. Just saying “I’m hurt” doesn’t cut it.

you can't prove pain.

 

if player says he has pain, team is stuck.

 

[BarleyNY]

53 minutes ago, krf139 said:

The Browns should really be getting more heat for structuring the contract that way. While nothing prohibited them from doing it, they’re being somewhat complicit to everything going on.

It’s exactly the same structure as any large contract.  Von Miller’s is structured the same way, with a vet minimum salary in year 1.  The Browns would have actually helped themselves by putting more salary into games that Watson would be suspended for.  That’s because teams recoup cap space for the forfeited salary in that situation.

[nedboy7]

39 minutes ago, papazoid said:

guy getting a massage gets aroused, tosses his towel to the side and asks for a happy ending

 

if thats a crime....build more prisons

here educate your brain

you can also be forced to register as a sex offender on some states. 
 

https://www.findlaw.com/state/criminal-laws/indecent-exposure-laws-by-state.html

 

you must view massage therapists as whores. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by nedboy7

[RoyBatty is alive]

12 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

There's degrees to a crime. If this was at a Spa Envy, that would be absolute highest degree of gross... but there's somewhat of a middle ground here. Seems atleast several of these women were sex workers.

 

Not something you sweep up and ignore, but also not the worst degree of the crimes either. I won't be surprised when the defense introduces evidence that these woman were tugging other dudes for money. Wonder how much if at all, that would change public opinion.

Unless they were ALL sex workers the fact that some "seem" to be is irrelevant.

 

And sure, some of them maybe did "tug" other dudes for money but again, unless it was everyone  of the 22 that is irrelevant.  The Defense will drag each of the 22 through the mud and we wonder why women are afraid to bring up sexual accusations.

 

And  I agree,  certainly not the worst crime.

[BillsShredder83]

7 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s exactly the same structure as any large contract.  Von Miller’s is structured the same way, with a vet minimum salary in year 1.  The Browns would have actually helped themselves by putting more salary into games that Watson would be suspended for.  That’s because teams recoup cap space for the forfeited salary in that situation.

Another concession they made (at their expense) to entice him to Cleveland. Dude must really have not wanted to play there. Well see how motivated he actually is now

 

[BarleyNY]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Another concession they made (at their expense) to entice him to Cleveland. Dude must really have not wanted to play there. Well see how motivated he actually is now

 

Fully guaranteeing the contract was almost certainly what Cleveland did to entice him.  The structure was standard practice for cap purposes.

[mannc]

26 minutes ago, cba fan said:

you can't prove pain.

 

if player says he has pain, team is stuck.

 

That’s just not true.

[wppete]

54 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

He will get a 3-6 game suspension and a relative slap on the wrist from the NFL. I think it is disgusting, and that the league is ridiculously hypocritical for promoting “women in football” and then turning around and letting a team give a huge, fully guaranteed contract to a serial molester. But what do I know...

Completely agree. Would like to a see reporter with a backbone ask Kim Pegula her thoughts and position on this topic as President and owner of the Buffalo Bills. She pushes hard for women in the NFL and Bills. 🤔. Should be interesting. End of the day it’s all about money for these people. IMO. 

[Tenhigh]

Just now, wppete said:

Completely agree. Would like to a see reporter with a backbone ask Kim Pegula her thoughts and position on this topic as President and owner of the Buffalo Bills. She pushes hard for women in the NFL and Bills. 🤔. Should be interesting. End of the day it’s all about money for these people. IMO. 

My guess is that she'd say that what she's read so far disturbs her, but will leave it up to the courts to uncover the truth and the league to take appropriate action.  

[BuffaloBills1998]

37 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Unless they were ALL sex workers the fact that some "seem" to be is irrelevant.

 

And sure, some of them maybe did "tug" other dudes for money but again, unless it was everyone  of the 22 that is irrelevant.  The Defense will drag each of the 22 through the mud and we wonder why women are afraid to bring up sexual accusations.

 

And  I agree,  certainly not the worst crime.

Even if they were all sex workers it’s still a crime. Definitely not the worst crime but still a crime 

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Even if they were all sex workers it’s still a crime. Definitely not the worst crime but still a crime 

Correct, unless a state has legalized prostitution, it would still be a crime.  But IMO if they were all "sex workers", that would be a major mitigating factor.

[BuffaloBills1998]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

Correct, unless a state has legalized prostitution, it would still be a crime.  But IMO if they were all "sex workers", that would be a major mitigating factor.

But for one of them to cry and feel uncomfortable tells me that most if not all are not sex workers. 

[BillsShredder83]

42 minutes ago, mannc said:

That’s just not true.

There was a story 2 or 3 years back about Jets forcing a guy to play through something unreasonable. Team doctors came back and basically said the guy was required to play, despite completely contradictory opinions by outside doctors.

 

They fined him very heavily over the whole thing. I was pretty shocked at the time that team doctors ultimately had the final say over whether has to play or not

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2019/oct/29/kelechi-osemele-injury-shoulder-surgery-new-york-jets-nfl

 

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/10/17/20919487/bengals-cordy-glenn-injury-concussion-nfl-rumors-news

Edited May 18, 2022 by BillsShredder83
Quick search found 2 examples

[JDubya76]

7 hours ago, todd said:

What kind of misogynistic idiocy is this? I hope you were joking.

Try using a sarcasm filter. As I stated above the guy literally came out and said he didn’t know why she was crying. 
 

great that you jumped to the rescue though

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But for one of them to cry and feel uncomfortable tells me that most if not all are not sex workers. 

If, and this is a big IF the reports of the deposition are correct, I am amazed Rusty Hardin, Watson's counsel, would let him say such a thing in a deposition.   Just based on that alone, I would be shocked if the NFL lets Watson play this year.  Fortunately for the NFL, Cleveland is not a critical market

 

 

[JDubya76]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

But for one of them to cry and feel uncomfortable tells me that most if not all are not sex workers. 

What amazes me was that in the beginning most people that heard it was an unlicensed massage therapist automatically assumed they were whores. 
 

in reality, as the truth comes to light it would seem that they were just regular people looking to earn some scratch as an unlicensed masseuse. Sure, probably some pros in there but I bet the bulk of complainants were just average women.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Unless they were ALL sex workers the fact that some "seem" to be is irrelevant.

 

And sure, some of them maybe did "tug" other dudes for money but again, unless it was everyone  of the 22 that is irrelevant.  The Defense will drag each of the 22 through the mud and we wonder why women are afraid to bring up sexual accusations.

 

And  I agree,  certainly not the worst crime.

I think context matters with respect to sex workers.  IMO it matters a great deal whether a sex worker is trafficked - and whether someone paying for their services could reasonably assume that they were.  In Watson’s case I doubt that the women involved were, but that’s not to say that he is not guilty of other things.  I’m not getting worked up about him asking masseuses (and non-masseuses) for a HJ, but (allegedly) intentionally exposing himself and moving his body to cause his naughty bits to touch them is definitely way over a line.

 

My first point above about sex workers is why I have such a huge issue with Robert Kraft and his frequenting of the Florida massage parlor.  It’s common for trafficked women to be forced to work in those places and that’s not exactly a secret.  Even if he could feign ignorance, it was made public that it was indeed the case.  The women there had been lured to the US with the promise of legitimate jobs, then had their passports taken from them, were isolated and forced to work there.  Even after all of that came out he did nothing to help them.  A negligible amount of money for him could have helped them all, including the ones he took advantage of.  You’d think he’d have some small amount decency (yeah, I know).

[RoyBatty is alive]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I think context matters with respect to sex workers.  IMO it matters a great deal whether a sex worker is trafficked - and whether someone paying for their services could reasonably assume that they were.  In Watson’s case I doubt that the women involved were, but that’s not to say that he is not guilty of other things.  I’m not getting worked up about him asking masseuses (and non-masseuses) for a HJ, but (allegedly) intentionally exposing himself and moving his body to cause his naughty bits to touch them is definitely way over a line.

 

My first point above about sex workers is why I have such a huge issue with Robert Kraft and his frequenting of the Florida massage parlor.  It’s common for trafficked women to be forced to work in those places and that’s not exactly a secret.  Even if he could feign ignorance, it was made public that it was indeed the case.  The women there had been lured to the US with the promise of legitimate jobs, then had their passports taken from them, were isolated and forced to work there.  Even after all of that came out he did nothing to help them.  A negligible amount of money for him could have helped them all, including the ones he took advantage of.  You’d think he’d have some small amount decency (yeah, I know).

Sex trafficking is an entire new aspect ......far beyond the scope of this board and my expertise.

 

Also there are some cultural issues involved.  Go to the  Philippines or Thailand and there is little to no stigma to getting paid for sex.

 

And correct me if I am wrong, neither Kraft or Watson were held criminally liable BUT is there any doubt what Kraft did?  The NFL in yet another act of letting important people off Scot free.  Because of Kraft the NFL might have a legal issue about suspending Watson or at least that is an angle I would play of Watson gets hit hard.

[LeGOATski]

This guy is a total loser. I would hate to be a Browns fan. And I know the Browns are a "2nd team" for a lot of Bills fans. Maybe not anymore.

23 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I think context matters with respect to sex workers.  IMO it matters a great deal whether a sex worker is trafficked - and whether someone paying for their services could reasonably assume that they were.  In Watson’s case I doubt that the women involved were, but that’s not to say that he is not guilty of other things.  I’m not getting worked up about him asking masseuses (and non-masseuses) for a HJ, but (allegedly) intentionally exposing himself and moving his body to cause his naughty bits to touch them is definitely way over a line.

 

My first point above about sex workers is why I have such a huge issue with Robert Kraft and his frequenting of the Florida massage parlor.  It’s common for trafficked women to be forced to work in those places and that’s not exactly a secret.  Even if he could feign ignorance, it was made public that it was indeed the case.  The women there had been lured to the US with the promise of legitimate jobs, then had their passports taken from them, were isolated and forced to work there.  Even after all of that came out he did nothing to help them.  A negligible amount of money for him could have helped them all, including the ones he took advantage of.  You’d think he’d have some small amount decency (yeah, I know).

It's so weird. Still wonder why such a high profile rich guy would visit such a place. Simple answer is that he was trying to keep it secret and off the books, but you wonder if there's something even more sinister to it.

[krf139]

3 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

It’s exactly the same structure as any large contract.  Von Miller’s is structured the same way, with a vet minimum salary in year 1.  The Browns would have actually helped themselves by putting more salary into games that Watson would be suspended for.  That’s because teams recoup cap space for the forfeited salary in that situation.

Correct. They decided to help Watson and his earning potential in light of a looming suspension vs help themselves. Basically getting on their hands and knees to accommodate someone with 22 pending lawsuits. 

[frostbitmic]

Was it the owner, the GM or the HC of the Browns that was the driving force behind acquiring Watson ?

 

It still could end up working out for the Browns or it's a move that will set the Browns back for the next decade. I'd put my money on the factory of sadness continuing for a long long time.

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Was it the owner, the GM or the HC of the Browns that was the driving force behind acquiring Watson ?

 

It still could end up working out for the Browns or it's a move that will set the Browns back for the next decade. I'd put my money on the factory of sadness continuing for a long long time.

 

I don’t know who was pushing for Watson (and that crazy deal), but it’s hard to overcome a terrible owner. Nearly impossible. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Was it the owner, the GM or the HC of the Browns that was the driving force behind acquiring Watson ?

 

It still could end up working out for the Browns or it's a move that will set the Browns back for the next decade. I'd put my money on the factory of sadness continuing for a long long time.

by most accounts. it was the owner, Haslam.  Another ego driven owner like Ross of the Dolphins trying to get Watson as well.

 

Yes it could end up well but with each passing day looks less and less likely.  Have to consider Watson hasn't played in a year and he will be lucky to play this year.  And the PR fallout on the Browns is getting worse by the Watson revelation.

 

At this point, for it to be a "success", Watson has to, at a minimum, bring them to the Super Bowl.

[BarleyNY]

49 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Sex trafficking is an entire new aspect ......far beyond the scope of this board and my expertise.

 

Also there are some cultural issues involved.  Go to the  Philippines or Thailand and there is little to no stigma to getting paid for sex.

 

And correct me if I am wrong, neither Kraft or Watson were held criminally liable BUT is there any doubt what Kraft did?  The NFL in yet another act of letting important people off Scot free.  Because of Kraft the NFL might have a legal issue about suspending Watson or at least that is an angle I would play of Watson gets hit hard.

That’s fair.  IMO sex work where it is legal and it isn’t a situation where people are being exploited or put at risk is very different.  Not really my thing, but I’ve got no problem with it. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

 

It's so weird. Still wonder why such a high profile rich guy would visit such a place. Simple answer is that he was trying to keep it secret and off the books, but you wonder if there's something even more sinister to it.

Yeah.  It’s nuts.  He could’ve had kept women with signed NDAs across the country (and globe) and it wouldn’t have been a blip on his financial radar.  If all parties are happy with that kind of arrangement, then that seems fairly simple to me and a whole lot safer than going to a seedy rub and tug.  Just the possibility of extortion alone….

[BarleyNY]

58 minutes ago, krf139 said:

Correct. They decided to help Watson and his earning potential in light of a looming suspension vs help themselves. Basically getting on their hands and knees to accommodate someone with 22 pending lawsuits. 

I would think that it is structured how Watson’s agent would have insisted it be done.  Ultimately the NFL can postpone any suspension until after the courts finish.  Then it would be served when he’s be making a much higher salary.  The only wrench in the works is timing. His deal is set up to be restructured next season, which would look even worse than this does now - even though it’s also pretty standard cap stuff. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, JDubya76 said:

What amazes me was that in the beginning most people that heard it was an unlicensed massage therapist automatically assumed they were whores. 
 

in reality, as the truth comes to light it would seem that they were just regular people looking to earn some scratch as an unlicensed masseuse. Sure, probably some pros in there but I bet the bulk of complainants were just average women.

 

 

"She must’ve been menstrual" was the very first comment you made... not only was it crude and unnecessary, but it *wait for it* jumped to conclusions. It's more like disgust rather than amazing in my eyes.

Edited May 18, 2022 by EasternOHBillsFan

[nosejob]

I don't see why some team can't give a later rd. pick and get the Browns to eat at least 75% of Baker's 18 mil.

If I were planning on Davis Mills or say...Winston, I'd be thinking of pulling this off before Wadson gets suspended.

I'd think someone would at least try it. What's gonna happen if Baker has ( get's forced) to play when supposedly he lost the locker room?

 

Enter the Hoodie...

[JDubya76]

11 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

"She must’ve been menstrual" was the very first comment you made... not only was it crude and unnecessary, but it *wait for it* jumped to conclusions. It's more like disgust rather than amazing in my eyes.

We really do need a sarcasm emoji. For the third time, he made a comment that he wasn’t sure why the girl had tears in her eyes at the end of the massage session.
 

My comment was a shot at the fact that despite all of the deposition content leaking from the civil case that they still couldn’t come to a criminal indictment. Followed by a sarcastic use of an example of a typical sexist defense of a predator that is pervasive throughout a patriarchal society. Well, she must’ve been menstrual. She’s just a fragile female. It must be that time of the month. If she’s there she must have been asking for it. Look how she was dressed, she wants it. She said stop but she didn’t mean it. She said no but it’s not a big deal. As if the above sexist comments must be the reason she was tearing up and not the fact that she was sexually assaulted. 
 

Everything else I have posted in any thread on this topic, without the use of sarcasm, has been in support of the women involved in the case and in condemnation of Watson’s actions. 

[TheBrownBear]

45 minutes ago, JDubya76 said:

We really do need a sarcasm emoji. For the third time, he made a comment that he wasn’t sure why the girl had tears in her eyes at the end of the massage session.
 

My comment was a shot at the fact that despite all of the deposition content leaking from the civil case that they still couldn’t come to a criminal indictment. Followed by a sarcastic use of an example of a typical sexist defense of a predator that is pervasive throughout a patriarchal society. Well, she must’ve been menstrual. She’s just a fragile female. It must be that time of the month. If she’s there she must have been asking for it. Look how she was dressed, she wants it. She said stop but she didn’t mean it. She said no but it’s not a big deal. As if the above sexist comments must be the reason she was tearing up and not the fact that she was sexually assaulted. 
 

Everything else I have posted in any thread on this topic, without the use of sarcasm, has been in support of the women involved in the case and in condemnation of Watson’s actions. 

I thought it was pretty clearly sarcasm by how over the top it was, but still, you're walking a fine line there and I can see how others would be offended.  Sometimes it's better to hit that cancel button.

[Putin]

He’s a POS Browns to me are the patriots*** 2.0 and I hope they lose every game that he’s a starter !!! 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Putin

[TheBrownBear]

I think Watson ultimately gets something like a 24 or 25 game suspension.  Make him and the Browns hurt for more than a single season, but allows him to get back on the field in 2023.  

[TBBills]

Has to be no less than 2 years. NFL needs to get this right...ish.

Edited May 18, 2022 by TBBills

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Putin said:

He’s a POS Browns to me are the patriots*** 2.0 and I hope they lose every game that he’s a starter !!! 

 

Belichick left a little bit of stank in Cleveland when he moved on to the Cheaters*. He’s cursed them the way Fitzy uses his black magic on starting QB’s. Beware! 

[BigDingus]

I almost hope they have to rely on Baker Mayfield after completely burning that bridge, then he goes on to have an MVP type season just before peacing out on them 🤣

Edited May 19, 2022 by BigDingus

[Matt_In_NH]

I sympathize with Browns fans but the owner is a scumbag, part of me hopes this totally blows up in their face and they pay him 230 million to never play a down.

[T master]

This really seems like a match made in heaven for both parties the Browns have made a bunch of foolish mistakes in the no to distant past but had looked to be coming out of it until they signed Watson .

 

What were they thinking that any of this would look in any way good on the team with no given reactions to what the accusers have said to this point yet . Sure you have a guy that can play the QB position better than most but when & how long will it take & what will it look like in it's conclusion ?

 

TO guarantee that kind of cash then to completely piss of your #1 over all QB pick that has done good things for the franchise that makes him ask for a trade WTH were they thinking i guess it is just the Browns being the Browns .

[BillsFan130]

23 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I think there’s a good chance he gets suspended the whole 22 season and possibly more depending how much more ugly this gets. 

He should be suspended for the full year.

But I can't seeing the nfl suspending him the full year.

 

I will predict 8-10 games