Boogie Basham optimism

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think people put way too much into "draft slot" personally.  He was graded as a late first to second round pick heading into the draft.  I think the fundamental flaw in your post here is you said his draft slot doesn't indicate "elite talent" either.  I think if you said he wasn't an elite prospect, as in top 10 or 15 guy it would be more accurate where those guys are seen as a higher success probability. 

 

But there are plenty of guys who go outside the top 15, outside the first round, even mid rounds who have elite talent potential, but there are just some other things that cause them to slide a bit.  Sometimes, its because they have a low floor, or have some holes that need coached up.  But, I wouldn't say a players drat slot indicates wether or not he has elite talent potential.  

 

Case in point...nothing about Brady coming out of college (especially coming off what I believe is still considered the worst combine performance for a QB in terms of athletic traits in history) was indicated he had elite ability, yet hes widely considered the GOAT now.  Not saying by any means Boogie has that kind of potential, just saying I think its a false conclusion to base a players talent potential based on draft slot.  

 

Another example...Shakir this year...getting him in the 5th round, I do think he has elite talent potential where he could develop into one of the best slot WRs in football.  So much about his tape reminds me of Kupp in how he uses his hands, controls his body, runs his routes etc.  And he has some of Deebo or AJ Brown in him after the catch too where he runs with strength and agility.  Doesn't mean he will, but I do think he has elite talent potential despite a 2nd/3rd round grade heading into draft and an actual 5th round draft selection.  

A) you way overanalyzed a somewhat flippant offhand comment.

 

B) he is at an absolutely elite and often overdrafted position. Only QB tends to run up the board more than pass rusher because they are both huge impacts on a game and rare body types. Boogie slid not because he was injured, or arrested or… it was because of his physical skill set. He is more Andy dalton than josh Allen in that regard. 
 

c) don’t take it personally but I think anyone that points at Tom Brady in a draft discussion should be suspended for a year. Obviously there are exceptions. I bet someone found a winning lottery ticket on the ground before too - some poor guy has been struck by lightning twice- it does nothing to further the discussion. When a guy at the second most important position falls to day two because of his measurables - it’s fair to mention that GMs see him as limited physically. That doesn’t mean it would be impossible to succeed but in discussing a guy who was a healthy scratch  many games, it’s another data point in a small sample of data we have to discuss his future potential. 
 

could he be a 12 sack a year pro bowler? Sure.
 

Is he more likely a hard working, good teammate that does the dirty work while the 12 sack guy across from him gets the pro bowl nods? Yea. 

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Yeah we seem to have heard this before

I think we need to let boogie play.....its the best way to determine whether or not he belongs.   I am hopeful that the release of Obada opened up some snaps for Boogie

obada was terrible. That he kept him off the field is also a concern. 
 

I think he will step up a bunch but also think managing expectations for him will be major for how this board perceives him the next three years. 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

A) you way overanalyzed a somewhat flippant offhand comment.

 

B) he is at an absolutely elite and often overdrafted position. Only QB tends to run up the board more than pass rusher because they are both huge impacts on a game and rare body types. Boogie slid not because he was injured, or arrested or… it was because of his physical skill set. He is more Andy dalton than josh Allen in that regard. 
 

c) don’t take it personally but I think anyone that points at Tom Brady in a draft discussion should be suspended for a year. Obviously there are exceptions. I bet someone found a winning lottery ticket on the ground before too - some poor guy has been struck by lightning twice- it does nothing to further the discussion. When a guy at the second most important position falls to day two because of his measurables - it’s fair to mention that GMs see him as limited physically. That doesn’t mean it would be impossible to succeed but in discussing a guy who was a healthy scratch  many games, it’s another data point in a small sample of data we have to discuss his future potential. 
 

could he be a 12 sack a year pro bowler? Sure.
 

Is he more likely a hard working, good teammate that does the dirty work while the 12 sack guy across from him gets the pro bowl nods? Yea. 

obada was terrible. That he kept him off the field is also a concern. 
 

I think he will step up a bunch but also think managing expectations for him will be major for how this board perceives him the next three years. 

 

I dont take it personally, I am not a fool, I know the exception Brady is, just an more than obvious example of how saying someone doesn't have elite talent before they stepped on a football field is premature and just a meaningless statement.  Which is why I also pointed out to our very own rookie draft pick this year as well.  

 

So no offense, labeling his talent label based on his draft position, which is what you did in the post I responded to, should be suspended for a year 

[NoSaint]

There’s also a reality that with

 

miller

rousseau

shaq

AJE 

daquan

Oliver

settle 

phillips

 

That Boogie may be fighting for game day active roles still. 

[machine gun kelly]

Knox came in on his third year.  We’ll see.  I wouldn’t worry about it.

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Personally I still think Boogie was drafted too early, but accept the consensus on him was higher than I was. 

Agreed.  He may turn out to be a good player, but I struggle to see the trait that will make him an above average NFL starter.  I hope I’m wrong.  

[NoSaint]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I dont take it personally, I am not a fool, I know the exception Brady is, just an more than obvious example of how saying someone doesn't have elite talent before they stepped on a football field is premature and just a meaningless statement.  Which is why I also pointed out to our very own rookie draft pick this year as well.  

 

So no offense, labeling his talent label based on his draft position, which is what you did in the post I responded to, should be suspended for a year 

ha! It’s just one of my gripes. It’s like going straight to bringing up nazis in a political debate. It just derails the actual point you are trying to make 9 times out of 10 and somehow seems to still be a go to in every discussion. 
 

but yea, that 32 GMs let him slide is an indication of what they thought of his athleticism. Obviously not a blanket statement you can make about the 200 players drafted after the first round but we have context here and it is relevant as a data point in this players discussion

Edited May 12, 2022 by NoSaint

[billybrew1]

9 hours ago, 42Knuck said:

I'm excited about all the young DE's.  Thinking about all the Bills draft picks that took big steps in year 3, I would certainly expect Epenesa to have a similar jump.  Also the fact the Groot had a bf Rookie year should bode well, I just hope he doesn't got he other way into a Sophomore slump?

Groot is so young I can see a real big jump. He gained over 30#s last year, how about this year?

All three are so young. AJ is only 23 now. While I think we need them to win a Super Bowl I think that they might do it.

The DL is the biggest question mark of the year….I the three young guys meld with the five new guys and Ed takes a step (and Ed should as Von will take some doubles away) we win theSuper Bowl. It’s a simplistic way of looking at it but I Billieve we have the rest down.

Eventually, we should have the best secondary in the league.

LB may not be a big strength but it sure isn’t a weakness either.

OL looks good but our depth is another question mark.

We look better than most in weapons, imho.,.

Josh is the best there is.

If we win a Super Bowl it means our lines were at least, “good.”

Maybe very good, we’ll see….

 

Go Bills!

 

[Thurman#1]

40 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

There’s also a reality that with

 

miller

rousseau

shaq

AJE 

daquan

Oliver

settle 

phillips

 

That Boogie may be fighting for game day active roles still. 

 

 

Sure, yeah, guesses can be considered reality if you're not really sure what reality is.

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sure, yeah, guesses can be considered reality if you're not really sure what reality is.

If all are healthy… and shaq can return to any semblance of past form back in this scheme - there’s a real chance boogie is DE5 and doesn’t dress until injury strikes. 
 

 

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

There’s also a reality that with

 

miller

rousseau

shaq

AJE 

daquan

Oliver

settle 

phillips

 

That Boogie may be fighting for game day active roles still. 

 

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Sure, yeah, guesses can be considered reality if you're not really sure what reality is.

 

Posting that Shaq AND Epenesa are just slotted in ahead of Basham on the depth chart (later based on some seriously uncertain criteria) is definitely not substantiated or reasonable to assume until we learn more. Sure, IF Basham falls to 5th on the DE depth chart, then of course his gameday status will be in question. But that's all you're saying here. No offense. 

[NoSaint]

17 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

 

Posting that Shaq AND Epenesa are just slotted in ahead of Basham on the depth chart (later based on some seriously uncertain criteria) is definitely not substantiated or reasonable to assume until we learn more. Sure, IF Basham falls to 5th on the DE depth chart, then of course his gameday status will be in question. But that's all you're saying here. No offense. 

I wasn’t making a grand proclamation or anything. just pointing out it may be a real possibility even with a strong off-season and a step or two forward. 
 

I’d venture you referencing him “falling to 5th” is probably not much different than what I put honestly- if not a bigger jump - as frankly his job is to climb out of 5th this off-season. 
 

he was behind AJE last year, so unless you are saying he’s passed him on the depth chart that leaves him DE4 at best, with shaq being a bit of a wild card returning. 

[Success]

I've never seen these 3 words together before.

 

They're good when combined this way.

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

If all are healthy… and shaq can return to any semblance of past form back in this scheme - there’s a real chance boogie is DE5 and doesn’t dress until injury strikes. 
 

 

 

 

Fair enough. But of course, there is also a real chance that he absolutely does dress and play every game.

 

Dunno which is more likely. We'll have to see.

 

My guess is it's somewhere between those two.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Thurman#1

[boyst]

One of them gets traded. I'd bet AJE, Basham, then Oliver. And I think they could get at least a 3rd for one of them.

 

I think Basham has a Dwan Edwards kind of career where he can contribute across the DL but has no actual position. 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

If all are healthy… and shaq can return to any semblance of past form back in this scheme - there’s a real chance boogie is DE5 and doesn’t dress until injury strikes. 
 

 

 

Shaq Lawson was a healthy scratch for the JETS in the last couple games and was cut heading into week 18. I'm not expecting him to have more than a minimal role on the team. Basham has inside/outside versatility. I'll be surprised if he's a healthy scratch at any point, unless he just doesn't put the work in. If anything it would be Lawson and Epenesa competing for the final active spot on gameday.

 

Last year we rostered 6 DEs. This year we appear to only have 5 rosterable DEs so I'm not entirely sure what the plan is. Maybe they don't plan on rotating Von Miller nearly as much as they usually rotate the DEs so they're comfortable rostering one less player. But I'm pretty sure they had 5 DEs active on gamedays last year so I think those 5 will all be active nearly every game.

 

13 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

One of them gets traded. I'd bet AJE, Basham

 

Then we'd only have 4 rosterable edge rushers, unless we're counting Mike Love... I'm kind of surprised we haven't added another DE in the vein of Quinton Jefferson or Efe Obada. It's a really thin position group with basically no margin for injury.

Edited May 12, 2022 by HappyDays

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

I wasn’t making a grand proclamation or anything. just pointing out it may be a real possibility even with a strong off-season and a step or two forward. 
 

I’d venture you referencing him “falling to 5th” is probably not much different than what I put honestly- if not a bigger jump - as frankly his job is to climb out of 5th this off-season. 
 

he was behind AJE last year, so unless you are saying he’s passed him on the depth chart that leaves him DE4 at best, with shaq being a bit of a wild card returning. 

 

The bolded is a reasonable counter. That wording of mine DOES seem to carry bias.

 

However, it looks like he ended the season 4th on the depth chart, ahead of Epenesa. And now with two major subtractions, and one major addition and another reunion, his status would likely be the same or one higher (still slightly ahead of Epenesa and possibly ahead or even with Shaq). Depends how we view Lawson's opportunity on a cheap one-year vet deal versus Basham's value on year two of a cheap rookie deal. Either way, he cannot be assumed to be 5th on the depth chart. It just isn't substantiated currently. 

[Billl]

16 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

One of them gets traded. I'd bet AJE, Basham, then Oliver. And I think they could get at least a 3rd for one of them.

 

I think Basham has a Dwan Edwards kind of career where he can contribute across the DL but has no actual position. 

I’m not sure how you could trade any of them.  Oliver would bring probably a high third or maybe even a second rounder, but that would leave a gaping hole at DT in the middle of a championship push, so I don’t think McBeane would move him for anything short of someone offering up a first rounder.  Zero chance that would be offered, and even then I think he’s so important to the team’s immediate plans that I don’t think it would be accepted.

 

Epenesa wouldn’t draw much more than a bag of footballs, and offering Basham would kill his value.  If you only dress a guy for 8 games and then shop him, you don’t have much leverage.  Both of these guys are going to contribute, IMO.  

[daz28]

He's gonna have to work his tail off.  I love it

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

For the film watchers… is there a reason NOT to be optimistic? Or is it that based on him being buried in the rotation/relegated to inactive sometimes?

 

I thought he did well for the reps he got. I expect his chances to be even more his season, I hope he makes the best of those opportunities. It's way too early to tell though imo.

[JerseyBills]

Boogie was all over the line late in the year, producing. Love his versatility.  Really nice chess piece for the DL

Edited May 12, 2022 by JerseyBills

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, krf139 said:

I remember how 90 percent of this board was gushing with optimism about Epenesa after the Miami game last year. Let’s wait and see how Basham performs over the course of the season. I’ll believe it when I see it…. consistently 

Things are never predictable. Motor going into his second year was catching all the praise and running up hills in Florida heat up the thruway hills.... then he dropped a steaming coil.

 

Then going into last year, we saw the off season stuff again and everyone was all "I fell for that last year, he is what he is," Moss was going to take his spot --he came on strong at end of rookie year...

 

Then Singletary came out playing with a physicality we hadn't seen, looking explosive (for him), and Moss looked like **** last year lolllll

 

AJE is in my camp of don't expect much of anything right now, so maybe he flips us on our head.

 

Heck, last off season Knox was on everyone's 💩 list. There were plays you could see him turn it on, and it was just enough to keep you excited, and then he dropped balls and disappeared. 365 days ago half the board was ready to move on.

 

We have one helluva coaching staff and it shows seeing some of these guys refinement. As fans, we weren't used to seeing players develop.

 

20 years where at the end of a players 2nd year, he was at his glass ceiling and no way to go up. 

 

There's hope for AJE, Boogie, certainly Rousseau, and I low key expect Dane Jackson to be one the hottest surprise in TC. Heading into 3rd year, and a full off-season of him hearing "who are we gunna draft" to put Dane on the bench.

 

Dude got a taste of starting last year, got a great head on his shoulders... I bet that competitive fire is absolutely blazing. I feel like he gets lost in the mix of young players we expect to take the next step. I hope he hears and senses that too 💪

 

 

[boyst]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Shaq Lawson was a healthy scratch for the JETS in the last couple games and was cut heading into week 18. I'm not expecting him to have more than a minimal role on the team. Basham has inside/outside versatility. I'll be surprised if he's a healthy scratch at any point, unless he just doesn't put the work in. If anything it would be Lawson and Epenesa competing for the final active spot on gameday.

 

Last year we rostered 6 DEs. This year we appear to only have 5 rosterable DEs so I'm not entirely sure what the plan is. Maybe they don't plan on rotating Von Miller nearly as much as they usually rotate the DEs so they're comfortable rostering one less player. But I'm pretty sure they had 5 DEs active on gamedays last year so I think those 5 will all be active nearly every game.

 

 

Then we'd only have 4 rosterable edge rushers, unless we're counting Mike Love... I'm kind of surprised we haven't added another DE in the vein of Quinton Jefferson or Efe Obada. It's a really thin position group with basically no margin for injury.

Phillips has played outside for us before successfully, and Oliver was playing outside successfully last year. I don't think this defense requires the "positions" of the line to have a major influence on its success

[muppy]

19 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

I like Bashams potential.  He’s a powerful rusher if he can refine some techniques issues he’ll be a good player for us  

I agree. I think this season will be very telling for mr Basham. I think  Our D Line will be fearsome this  season I cannot wait!

[NoSaint]

7 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

The bolded is a reasonable counter. That wording of mine DOES seem to carry bias.

 

However, it looks like he ended the season 4th on the depth chart, ahead of Epenesa. And now with two major subtractions, and one major addition and another reunion, his status would likely be the same or one higher (still slightly ahead of Epenesa and possibly ahead or even with Shaq). Depends how we view Lawson's opportunity on a cheap one-year vet deal versus Basham's value on year two of a cheap rookie deal. Either way, he cannot be assumed to be 5th on the depth chart. It just isn't substantiated currently. 

agreed we can’t assume how those three will slot out- all I was saying is there’s a chance he could be behind the others even in a good off-season. Great problem to have but would again just tie to keeping reasonable expectations that he could be playing well and still challenged with limited reps. 
 

I think someone could be frustrated in an AJE or shaq thread if I slotted then 5th for discussion sake too. Someone we want to cheer for will be inactive if everyone is healthy. 

[SoTier]

11 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 

I get it, but as far as Bills go there's going to be 1 of them starting. With Hughes gone there's not a starter on that end left to dislodge. Boogie will rotate here and there, but Greg R likely will start opposite of Miller.

 

Maybe the reason that Hughes is gone is because the Bills feel that Basham and/or  AJE are capable of replacing him.

 

10 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Knox came in on his third year.  We’ll see.  I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

Totally agree.  QB isn't the only position where young players frequently step up big in their second or third seasons.  A lot of college players made their draft slots based on their superior physical talent.   In the pros, they not only have to learn new/better techniques and get their bodies into NFL playing shape, but they have to learn the way their opponents play the game to figure out how to be really effective, and they only gain that knowledge with experience, not only on the field but also in analyzing film.  It takes a while.

[Kaenon]

He's a Shaq Lawson-esque type of player (post surgery Shaq in Buffalo).

 

I really wanted Basham in the draft and when they took Rousseau I thought it wouldn't happen. Then they nabbed him in the 2nd!

 

Boogie will be fine and I'm glad he'll have Shaq to mentor him and push him this season.

[wppete]

[newcam2012]

44 minutes ago, Kaenon said:

He's a Shaq Lawson-esque type of player (post surgery Shaq in Buffalo).

 

I really wanted Basham in the draft and when they took Rousseau I thought it wouldn't happen. Then they nabbed him in the 2nd!

 

Boogie will be fine and I'm glad he'll have Shaq to mentor him and push him this season.

I'm not really high on Boogie. He can be a decent player but he's not elite or special in my mind. Hopefully, he can develop and help the defense. I never really liked this 2nd round pick. 

[Magox]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where Lombardo is hearing the "optimism" on Basham?

 

I hadn't heard it, not doubting him just that I hadn't heard it from anywhere.

[newcam2012]

31 minutes ago, Magox said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know where Lombardo is hearing the "optimism" on Basham?

 

I hadn't heard it, not doubting him just that I hadn't heard it from anywhere.

I agree. You think Bills fans would be knowledgeable about his so called optimism. Seems like an odd tweet to me. Basically, you can literal plug any name in there and I suppose it could apply. Also, why didn't he site any sources? I question the credibility of the tweet. 

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree. You think Bills fans would be knowledgeable about his so called optimism. Seems like an odd tweet to me. Basically, you can literal plug any name in there and I suppose it could apply. Also, why didn't he site any sources? I question the credibility of the tweet. 

 

I'm sure Lombardo woke up yesterday and thought to himself, "I think I will just make up some s*** about Boogie Basham today..."

[Motor26]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I'm sure Lombardo woke up yesterday and thought to himself, "I think I will just make up some s*** about Boogie Basham today..."

It was a slow news day for the NFL yesterday.

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I'm sure Lombardo woke up yesterday and thought to himself, "I think I will just make up some s*** about Boogie Basham today..."

Who knows? Seems like a weird tweet and he backs it up with nothing. Add on this board here with so many knowledgeable fans  haven't heard of such recent optimism elsewhere. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by newcam2012

[billsfan1959]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Who knows? Seems like a weird tweet and he backs it up with nothing. Add on this board here with so many knowledgeable fans  haven't heard of such recent optimism elsewhere. 

 

Not sure why the tweet is so weird to you, or why you need him to cite sources. I'm sure he heard something form someone, no matter how vague, that they were expecting bigger things from Basham this year. Honestly, it's not like he tweeted that he heard Basham was going to be starting over Von Miller....

 

It would seem more strange to me if he just made it up

[LabattBlue]

Big year for Boogie, AJ and Rousseau.  Let’s see who can separate themselves from the pack come training camp.  

[NoSaint]

36 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Who knows? Seems like a weird tweet and he backs it up with nothing. Add on this board here with so many knowledgeable fans  haven't heard of such recent optimism elsewhere. 

It’s also not like we’ve had some super intense camp. 
 

he finished the season strong and he’s not taking the off-season for granted is the extent of any optimism and I don’t doubt some coaches or teammates said that 

8 minutes ago, BTB said:

Big year for Boogie, AJ and Rousseau.  Let’s see who can separate themselves from the pack come training camp.  

Rousseau already has - but a matter of holding it 

[CapeBreton]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I'm sure Lombardo woke up yesterday and thought to himself, "I think I will just make up some s*** about Boogie Basham today..."

 

Don't you see, that's the genius of it. If he had said Josh Allen, you'd know he's making it up.

 

/end Seinfeld reference

[Airseven]

Basham has value in that he can play multiple positions and is sort of a safety net as the 9th DL. Of course, that means he won't dress every game which would be disappointing (if not unsurprising) in his soph season.

 

I have zero interest in ever seeing Lawson and Phillips in Bills unis again. Pulling for Ankou to steal a roster spot which may bump Basham closer to the regular rotation.  

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Fair enough. But of course, there is also a real chance that he absolutely does dress and play every game.

 

Dunno which is more likely. We'll have to see.

 

My guess is it's somewhere between those two.

I think this will have more to do with AJ than Boogie.  I think Boogie is what he is, solid depth.  No one has any clue what AJ is. He seems to be trash and if that’s the case, boogie will play regardless. I don’t think Boogie will ever be trash, but just a solid backup DE.  

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Not sure why the tweet is so weird to you, or why you need him to cite sources. I'm sure he heard something form someone, no matter how vague, that they were expecting bigger things from Basham this year. Honestly, it's not like he tweeted that he heard Basham was going to be starting over Von Miller....

 

It would seem more strange to me if he just made it up

Why Basham? It could have been 10 to 15 other players named. Don't reporters usually use and name sources to add credibility to their statements? It is odd to me that he tweets out the name Barham and no one else. Especially, when he's really not on anyone's radar nor have we heard this news anywhere. Almost seema like a " PR" move. Maybe I'm wrong...