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Boogie Basham optimism


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4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So they drafted another college power rusher then tried to turn him into a speed rusher, is that what we are supposed to take from the "weight under control" line? If they did, then one of Boogie or AJE better kick on. 

 

Yeah we seem to have heard this before

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is my point. I think drafting big ends then trying to make them speed rushers is not a wise strategy. 

I think we need to let boogie play.....its the best way to determine whether or not he belongs.   I am hopeful that the release of Obada opened up some snaps for Boogie

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47 minutes ago, Logic said:

When it's all said and done, here's what I expect with our trio of young defensive ends:

Greg Rousseau will have a long career as a good edge setter and run defender who can chip in 6-8 sacks per year, but will never be a dominant edge bending pass rusher. He'll be somewhere between Shaq Lawson and Calais Campbell.

Boogie Basham will also be a 1st and 2nd down base defensive end. His biggest pass rush impact will come as an interior defender on 3rd downs. His versatility and run stopping ability will allow him to stick around the league for years, but he'll never be a big time, impact pass rusher.

AJ Epenesa will be a career journeyman who never lives up the potential of his draft pedigree.

I wish I had a more optimistic outlook. Rousseau and Basham will both be good players, I think, but just not the type of franchise pass rushers we're hoping for. Epenesa was miscast from the start. He should have been drafted by a 3-4 defense to play 5T. The Bills selecting a power rusher and then having him shed a bunch of weight to try to become a speed rusher was a foolish decision, and ruined whatever chance Epenesa had to be impactful.

 

I agree with all of this.  To my eyes, Groot has a little Mario Williams in him.  A big, long dude who plays LDE and who can get some sacks simply by virtue of his reach.  Basham doesn’t have the body type to bend—at least not that I’ve seen.  I’m a little more optimistic on Epenesa.  But, at least to my eyes, it looks like they had him overdo the weight loss last year and he was a little too light.  

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45 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I've mentioned this in other threads, but will keep repeating just to provide perspective:

 

He was ranked and drafted later than Chris Kelsay. So set expectations accordingly.


No disrespect, literally has no relevance of any kind to Boogie or his potential.

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5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

For the film watchers… is there a reason NOT to be optimistic? Or is it that based on him being buried in the rotation/relegated to inactive sometimes?

 

 

2nd round pick.  Beane obviously loved him they couldn't run fast enough to the podium to pick him.  He flashed a few times.  We knew he was a bit of a project.  

 

So yes I can buy he is going to make an impact.  They overhauled the entire D line and showed zero urgency in brining in another DE to replace Addison and Hughes after signing Miller.  Who we know isn't playing more then 60% of the snaps a game.  I think that's a safe bet.  

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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So they drafted another college power rusher then tried to turn him into a speed rusher, is that what we are supposed to take from the "weight under control" line? If they did, then one of Boogie or AJE better kick on. 

 

Boogie was fat though, he absolutely needed to get that under control. Def hoping they didn't go full Epenesa with him. Never go full Epenesa

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I remember how 90 percent of this board was gushing with optimism about Epenesa after the Miami game last year. Let’s wait and see how Basham performs over the course of the season. I’ll believe it when I see it…. consistently 

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6 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:


I know a lot of people hate PFF, but they rated Settle prior to 2020 season as one of the best run stopping DT’s in the NFL.  We didn’t grab him to sack people, but to stop guys like Henry from penetrating and blowing it out like that one play last year.  Last year we had him under 2 yards a carry until he broke out.  Jackson is also known for these abilities.

 

Oliver and Phillips are our penetrators.  Phillips may get back to form from when here with 9.5 sacks as a DT.  That’s rare.

 

 

Don't expect that from Phillips. You'll be disappointed. 

 

He got very lucky that year. He ran through holes untouched on a very large percentage of his sacks. His pressure percentage was fairly unimpressive. He just got sacks on a historically excellent percentage of his pressures. Like a better than Von Miller kind of a percentage. He got lucky.

 

But he was still a pretty solid player even when he wasn't getting lucky. That's what they are looking forward to. The statisticians all told us it was a fluke and while he was a good player he wouldn't get that kind of a year for sacks again. He didn't.

 

Both before and since that year he got a pretty normal percentage of sacks per pressure.

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4 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

 

Yeah agree...will be interesting to see how it plays out. Although AJE showed a flash or 2 here and there last season he clearly still needs some work. Some seem to have lost some confidence in AJE, but hopefully 3rd season's a charm for him. 

 

If he doesn't pick up the pace Boogie might end up making it an easy decision

Who has the longer leash of the two?  AJ has been in the league longer, but Boogie is a year older.

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2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I've mentioned this in other threads, but will keep repeating just to provide perspective:

 

He was ranked and drafted later than Chris Kelsay. So set expectations accordingly.

 

Really means much of anything though. All the ranks are different, one may have a player ranked much higher than another. Anyways, I will say I do feel better about Boogie than I did when Kelsay came along lol

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Who has the longer leash of the two?  AJ has been in the league longer, but Boogie is a year older.

I don't know. Probably about the same at this particular point 

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6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So they drafted another college power rusher then tried to turn him into a speed rusher, is that what we are supposed to take from the "weight under control" line? If they did, then one of Boogie or AJE better kick on. 

 

Yes, this is a blind spot of the D coaching staff.  Same mistake twice?  I coudn't rule that out here.

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I think that a lot of posters have unrealistic expectations of the Bills recent young DLers.   These aren't top ten or top fifteen draft picks who realistically can replace entrenched starters but late first or late second round picks.  They have some flaws that need to be fixed or overcome.  It's not realistic to expect these young players to dislodge established starters as rookies or even as sophomores, especially because NFL defenses are much more sophisticated than most college defenses.  There's a learning curve for all NFL newcomers, and some youngsters have more to learn than others.

 

For the Bills and other outstanding teams' young defenders, it's even harder for them to break into starting lineups because the guys in front of them are better than the starters on many other teams.  It's a lot easier for a young defender to have an impact on a 3 win team with a poor defense than on a 11 or 12 win team with a highly rated defense.

 

IOW, show these young guys some patience.  Did you do your best your job/career in your first couple of years on the job or after you've mastered all the nuances?   

 

 

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1 hour ago, krf139 said:

I remember how 90 percent of this board was gushing with optimism about Epenesa after the Miami game last year. Let’s wait and see how Basham performs over the course of the season. I’ll believe it when I see it…. consistently 


AJ only knows how to play against Austin Jackson. Embarrassed him in college and in the NFL. If he could only face him every week he’d be an all pro. 

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18 minutes ago, SoTier said:

It's not realistic to expect these young players to dislodge established starters as rookies or even as sophomores, especially because NFL defenses are much more sophisticated than most college defenses.  There's a learning curve for all NFL newcomers, and some youngsters have more to learn than others.

 

For the Bills and other outstanding teams' young defenders, it's even harder for them to break into starting lineups because the guys in front of them are better than the starters on many other teams.

 

I get it, but as far as Bills go there's going to be 1 of them starting. With Hughes gone there's not a starter on that end left to dislodge. Boogie will rotate here and there, but Greg R likely will start opposite of Miller.

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2 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

I'm ok with giving Miller/Groot 60+% of the snaps and toning down the rotation.

The rotation obviously enough, needs to be adjusted for the opponent, on top of being reduced somewhat, guys play better when they have the opportunity to get into a groove so to speak, 

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