Derek Carr Contract

[aristocrat]

16 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Chiefs are NOT better than the Raiders or Broncos. They will be lucky to win 8-9 games next year. 

ok man put the pipe down. 

[Mister Defense]

10 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I think Carr has been absolutely solid for his entire career .. just on shitshow team/shitshow organization.  He's durable, accurate, professional.  I've always loved the guy and I think the Raiders were very wise to secure him (if they can commit to giving him some talent to work with).

 

To me he has always seemed like a good guy, a high character guy. And I agree his team has not been a high quality one. 

 

But he seems to fold under pressure and lacks the leadership qualities of a top NFL quarterback.  The problem, I think, is that teams see those personal qualities, see the italics, and they also get to know a player very well, and that clouds their judgement.

 

Carr has a top tight end and and now Devante Adams.  If the line is solid, he should have a great year and lead the Raiders to their first playoff win in a long time.  But I don't think he will step up and take them there.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Mister Defense

[John from Riverside]

The arms race in that division is going to leave a corpse of a team left standing......which we will wipe the floor with

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

If Carr got that amount of jack, then we completely screwed Josh on his contract.  What a steal.

 

No that is not true and it is a terrible way to express it.

 

Yes now that more contracts have been signed it looks better and better but NO the Bills did not "screw" Josh Allen, they gave him at the time one of the best deals.  As a Bills fan, I would NOT want to think that we "screwed" him.  Would you want your franchise QB to get the idea his team "screwed" him?

[Chicken Boo]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A star? No. I do think he is underrated though. And as discussed multiple times.... the QB market is inefficiently recognising the difference between the franchise tier and the elite tier. It is what it is. Your alternative is don't have a QB. 

 

If this is a 3 year extension onto his final year of his previous deal then that makes it 4 years at $35m per year. I think that is right about where his value is in this market.

 

I disagree that he is underrated, but we'll see this year.  "Offensive guru" Josh McDaniels, Devante Adams, Renfrow, Waller and Josh Jacobs.

 

 

No more excuses.  He either makes the leap or the criticism is 100% justified.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I disagree that he is underrated, but we'll see this year.  "Offensive guru" Josh McDaniels, Devante Adams, Renfrow, Waller and Josh Jacobs.

 

 

No more excuses.  He either makes the leap or the criticism is 100% justified.

 

Makes what leap? What do you think he needs to do? 

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, mushypeaches said:

Derek Carr is the AFC's version of Kirk Cousins

 

Not going to win anything significant because of him, but too scared to get rid of him and start fresh

 

If I were a Raiders fan, I'd be thrilled to have been in QB purgatory for the last 10+ seasons and just signing up for at least 4 more

 

I'd take Cousins over Carr without blinking.  

 

Kirk has led 2 different teams to the playoffs multiple times.  2 of those being with Washington and one of the worst owners in all of sports.

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Makes what leap? What do you think he needs to do? 

 

Have that signature win or performance.  If we're being generous, you could say the Chargers game last year, but he wasn't particularly good and was outplayed by Herbert.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

I'd take Cousins over Carr without blinking.  

 

 

I'd take Carr over Cousins every time.

[SCBills]

55 minutes ago, warrior9 said:

Chiefs are NOT better than the Raiders or Broncos. They will be lucky to win 8-9 games next year. 

 

We'll find out just how good Mahomes is.  

 

Kelce is still there, and they will have a good WR group, but Hill/Kelce in their prime was something we've never seen before... as impossible as it gets to cover.  

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

No, he’s an above average starter that you can win with …but won’t win “because of him” if things wilt around him

To me he is exactly the QB Andy Dalton was before the Bengals smartened up and went for broke on Burrow.    Carr is just smart and talented enough to keep a team from ever winning a championship.   Type of guy that can win half of his games and sneak you into the playoffs every once and awhile but he is never going to carry you against the Elite Quarterbacks because he isnt one.   So the Raiders have a choice, overpay the guy everyone in the building likes, or bottom out and try and go get an elite talent at the risk of alienating their fans.   Smart teams do the second thing regardless of how fans feel.

 

Think about this for a second, the Raiders just handed a guy who is 57-70 in his career another 121 million dollars.   In his career to date they've paid him 1.9 million dollars per win he has brought them.   No playoff victories in his eight year career..and its not going to start now with them likley battling for the basement in their division for the foreseeable future.    By the time they smarten up they will have paid him over 230 million dollars to be average.  Good job if you can get it.

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by thenorthremembers

[machine gun kelly]

I’d agree Care is similar in some ways to Cousins.  Middle of the road QB.  Not great, not bad, just there.

[Big Blitz]

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

Edited April 13, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Charles Romes]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

If Carr got that amount of jack, then we completely screwed Josh on his contract.  What a steal.

Beane rolled the dice that showing the elite goods for one single year was enough,  and was proved right. Benefit of the bargain to the Bills and Beane. 

[PetermansRedemption]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

If I were the Raiders I'd be petitioning for a division re-alignment

Quite the murderers row of QBs when Derek Carr is indisputably the worst one by a mile. 

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

If Carr got that amount of jack, then we completely screwed Josh on his contract.  What a steal.

I suspect that Allen knew he wasn't getting every nickel he could get.  He's still going to be fabulously wealthy.  He wants to win and if he scoops up all the nickels there wouldn't be a way to keep the team together.  This guy cares a lot more about hoisting the Lombardi than in being the best-paid QB.  The teams overpaying for QBs are the ones with big holes in their roster.

[Charles Romes]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Mitch, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

so you missed tannehill’s playoff game against the Bengals?

[Utah John]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Mitch, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

That's a decent ranking.  I just want to note that being in the third tier makes him just slightly above average, and yet he's getting paid like a much better QB.  

5 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Quite the murderers row of QBs when Derek Carr is indisputably the worst one by a mile. 

Each team in the AFCW plays six divisional games.  It's hard to see any of them doing better than 4-2, considering the high level of competition.  If the Bills can repeat at 6-0 in the AFCE, that's a leg up on the One Seed.

[warrior9]

35 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

We'll find out just how good Mahomes is.  

 

Kelce is still there, and they will have a good WR group, but Hill/Kelce in their prime was something we've never seen before... as impossible as it gets to cover.  

It's not the Offense.. that defense will be PUTRID

[Gugny]

16 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Mitch, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

 

Carr is better than Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson, IMO.  And how is Watson in the bottom tier?  What has Trevor Lawrence done to not warrant being in the bottom tier?

 

[Big Blitz]

21 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

so you missed tannehill’s playoff game against the Bengals?

 

 

Meh.  I'm trying to balance overall numbers and record with "what have you done for me lately?"

 

My tiers aren't necessarily a ranking even tho I tried to do that. 

 

But who would you put over Tanny right now?

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Carr is better than Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson, IMO.  And how is Watson in the bottom tier?  What has Trevor Lawrence done to not warrant being in the bottom tier?

 

 

 

I weighed the 2nd year QBs based on the year they had and where I think they're headed.  Lawrence is going to be fine.

 

I'm obviously joking about Watson.

 

And which of the guys in the tiers below Lawrence would you put over him? 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

The arms race in that division is going to leave a corpse of a team left standing......which we will wipe the floor with

AFC west will be very tough but here’s a huge problem for the team that finishes 2nd in the conference. You’re likely facing an angry battle tested AFC west 7th seed in the 1st round of the playoffs. Makes getting the 1st seed that much more important.

[H2o]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

People call them middling because they haven't really shown they can be a threat, and Carr doesn't scare anyone in a Conference with multiple elite QB's.  Losing to the Bengals in the WC Round isn't exactly impressive...it's basically what they seem to be until further notice... a good team that will be a playoff contender, but if they make it - Carr vs (insert elite QB) becomes an issue for them. 

True. No team goes in with a game plan of how to stop Derek Carr. But, now he has a quality offense around him. The OL is decent, Jacobs is a top 10 RB, Waller may be a top 5 TE, Renfrow has developed into one of the best Slot WR's in the NFL, and Adams is certainly a top 5 WR. Add to that Carr already has chemistry with Adams from their time together at Fresno St. and the Raiders could take a nice step forward. Sucks for them to be in the AFC West, but they have built a solid team out there. Eli Manning won multiple SB's (shout out to Eli beating the Pats, TWICE ), Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles. It's not always the greatest QB winning the big game. 

[Matt_In_NH]

The Raiders are kind of stuck, Carr is good enough that you dont move on.    I definitely think he looks like the 4th best QB in his division

[RoyBatty is alive]

53 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

I like the ranking but one I wildly disagree with, Watson is not even close to the same category as Mitch and as for the rest in that tier. too young to make a determination.  Watson belongs in Tier 1 or at worst 2 imo.

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Is he really a star QB?

....about as much as Cousins....I can't wait for the Ravens to overpay for Lamar....

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

Tiers:

 

Tier 1:  Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Burrow

 

Tier 2:  Herbert, Stafford, Wilson, Lamar

 

Tier 3: Dak, Cousins, Carr, Tannehill, Murray

 

Tier 4: Ryan, Baker, Lawrence, Jimmy G

 

Tier 5: Tua, Goff, Jameis, Wentz, Mac

 

Tier 6: Fields, Hurts, Mariotta, Darnold

 

Tier 7: Mitch, Jones, Mills, Zach Wilson, Watson 

 

 

Yes, Carr is a top 15 QB every week.  

 

Jared Goff > Ryan Tannehill.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Jared Goff > Ryan Tannehill.

 

Not sure about that but Goff is at least a tier too low on that

[Mango]

3 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

This is starting to look like the Bills signed Josh to the Dollar Store franchise quarterback deal 

 

Dollars compared to other QB's isn't super comforting to me. I mean, I guess it is to feel like I have value. But his $$$ is still a very significant % of the cap going forward. Next year Allen, Diggs, and Miller together are going to take up just over 1/3 of our total cap space next year and the year after. 

The Bills pushed all their chips to the middle of the table this year. I am fine with it. But it will cost us in the next 2-3 years no matter what Derek Carr gets paid. 

[Chicken Boo]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not sure about that but Goff is at least a tier too low on that

 

Just preference.  Tanne is better at improv, Goff is the better passer.

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Oooooffff. Good luck Vegas, middling team for life. 

What was the alternative?

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

I feel bad for Josh little Rico on fantanics owes him an apology for saying Josh is paid too much and Deshawn Watson is better then Josh.

[BigDingus]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A star? No. I do think he is underrated though. And as discussed multiple times.... the QB market is inefficiently recognising the difference between the franchise tier and the elite tier. It is what it is. Your alternative is don't have a QB. 

 

If this is a 3 year extension onto his final year of his previous deal then that makes it 4 years at $35m per year. I think that is right about where his value is in this market.

 

Very much this. He's not "elite" tier, but he can certainly be considered one of the upper tier QB's & a "star" by some standards. We've also seen what Carr is capable of doing when healthy & with competent coaching/teammates, but people forget how much of a s*** show the Raiders have been for years.

 

Gruden didn't help things (if anything, he set it all back once again), the lackluster personnel, his own injuries, the tough division, maybe even the relocation, probably has made Carr look more inconsistent than he really is. I'm not saying he's a Mahomes or Allen type QB, only that he's better than just an "above average QB" & can successfully be built around to win.

 

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

If Carr got that amount of jack, then we completely screwed Josh on his contract.  What a steal.

Josh got to secure his future, the Bills took a risk after one good year, it was calculated well by both.  Josh also got an exorbitant amount of guarantees (at the time), so he got what he needed.  The beautiful thing for him, he’s going to re-set it all again in a few years.  He signed a very smart deal.

38 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

I like the ranking but one I wildly disagree with, Watson is not even close to the same category as Mitch and as for the rest in that tier. too young to make a determination.  Watson belongs in Tier 1 or at worst 2 imo.

 

 

Agreed, I’d have Watson at tier 2 until he’s back on the field and showing success outside of trash time. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

No, he’s an above average starter that you can win with …but won’t win “because of him” if things wilt around him

 

I will say this, I wasn't too high on Carr prior to last year.  However, they did win quite a few games because of him, lots of late game heroics despite the coaching turmoil and a weak group of WR's with the exception of Renfrow.  So I would say this is a good extension for the Raiders, it would be hard to upgrade from him and I would say he is better than above average.  More like good, but not great.  Personally I would take Carr over someone like Cousins.  

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A star? No. I do think he is underrated though. And as discussed multiple times.... the QB market is inefficiently recognising the difference between the franchise tier and the elite tier. It is what it is. Your alternative is don't have a QB. 

 

If this is a 3 year extension onto his final year of his previous deal then that makes it 4 years at $35m per year. I think that is right about where his value is in this market.

 

Agreed Bill...he isn't top 10, but I think he is certainly in the top 15.  In no particular order, I would list them like this...

 

Top 5:  (In no particular order) Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Watson (until Watson shows me he is not top 5 on the field, I am going with what he had been before missing a year, and that was a top 5 QB, which I fully expect him to be again at some point after coming back).  

 

Top 6-10: (In no particular order) Herbert, Lamar, Wilson, Burrow, Stafford.  

 

Then I would go:

11 - Prescott

12 - Murray

13 - Carr

Ryan and Cousins would round out the top 15 for me in which ever order, they are closely graded to me at this point.  

[Aussie Joe]

2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

so you missed tannehill’s playoff game against the Bengals?

Did you miss Mahomes playoff game against the Bengals?

[Dopey]

The Raiders organization was a mess last year. GM fired, Gruden resigns, Ruggs killed someone, cb Damon Arnette had a hit and run incident. Through all of this, he guided them to the Playoffs, beating the Chargers to eliminate them and getting in themselves. That's a helluva lot to go through.  He's not garbage. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I will say this, I wasn't too high on Carr prior to last year.  However, they did win quite a few games because of him, lots of late game heroics despite the coaching turmoil and a weak group of WR's with the exception of Renfrow.  So I would say this is a good extension for the Raiders, it would be hard to upgrade from him and I would say he is better than above average.  More like good, but not great.  Personally I would take Carr over someone like Cousins.  

 

 

Agreed Bill...he isn't top 10, but I think he is certainly in the top 15.  In no particular order, I would list them like this...

 

Top 5:  (In no particular order) Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady, Watson (until Watson shows me he is not top 5 on the field, I am going with what he had been before missing a year, and that was a top 5 QB, which I fully expect him to be again at some point after coming back).  

 

Top 6-10: (In no particular order) Herbert, Lamar, Wilson, Burrow, Stafford.  

 

Then I would go:

11 - Prescott

12 - Murray

13 - Carr

Ryan and Cousins would round out the top 15 for me in which ever order, they are closely graded to me at this point.  

 

I'd probably swap Dak and Lamar but I can't really quibble. Those are broadly the tiers I'd have too. 

[ALF]

Carr stats are worth the money when good QBs are hard to find

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=derek+carr+stats&oq=derek+ca&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j46i131i433i512j69i57j0i131i433i512l2j69i60l3.9038j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Alphadawg7]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'd probably swap Dak and Lamar but I can't really quibble. Those are broadly the tiers I'd have too. 

 

Yeah, I think when you are in about that range there a couple guys that could slide here or there.  And I wouldn't quibble over that either.  

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Watson belongs in Tier 1 or at worst 2 imo.

 

 

 

Everyone knows I'm joking about Watson right?

 

He belongs in the Trash Tier of humans.

 

Maybe I'll do that next...a Tier of humans.....lol