Rather excited to have a new OC

[Beast]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

2) It's time for a fresh OC to take Allen & the Bills offense to the next level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to pick on you but your expectations are ridiculous.

 

Did you not watch the Bills the last month? Two games with no punts and a 36 spot in Arrowhead.

 

Please tell me, what exactly are you expecting? 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I will assume that you maintain autonomy with your boss at your job. Is that the way this works now? Cripes, McDermott is the boss and has the right to say and do anything he believes is the best for his team. No team has coordinators that cannot be overruled, or managed by the head coach. Neither does a corporation. Ultimately, if a boss fails then the entire staff is under fire. There is no situation where subordinates are not responsible to their boss.

 

We get that you don’t like McD. However, you can’t change the way these things work.

Not what I'm saying. As long as McDermott is gun-shy on offense there will be issues.

 

I've said he's improved let's hope he continues to.

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I don't mean to pick on you but your expectations are ridiculous.

 

Did you not watch the Bills the last month? Two games with no punts and a 36 spot in Arrowhead.

 

Please tell me, what exactly are you expecting? 

And of course there were many games where the offense seemed off. I need the number of threads this year about it. Yes those games were incredible, but Sunday vs KC and even Romo and Nantz questioned the offense had a few times. I can't help to think it had McDermott's fingerprints all over it.

[Beast]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Not what I'm saying. As long as McDermott is gun-shy on offense there will be issues.

 

I've said he's improved let's hope he continues to.

 

Why do you say McDermott is gun shy on offense? I can point to a lot of situations where he was quite aggresive concerning 4th down calls this past season.

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Not what I'm saying. As long as McDermott is gun-shy on offense there will be issues.

 

I've said he's improved let's hope he continues to.

And of course there were many games where the offense seemed off. I need the number of threads this year about it. Yes those games were incredible, but Sunday vs KC and even Romo and Nantz questioned the offense had a few times. I can't help to think it had McDermott's fingerprints all over it.

 

This is the NFL. There were many games where KC and the Ramos offense was off.

 

Fans expectations are unrealistic.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I don't mean to pick on you but your expectations are ridiculous.

 

Did you not watch the Bills the last month? Two games with no punts and a 36 spot in Arrowhead.

 

Please tell me, what exactly are you expecting? 

I believe that the two playoff games are more about Allen rising to the top then DaBoll's creating a great offensive scheme. Heck the last 10 minutes in KC with Allen single handily willing the team down the field was 100% Allen - not any special play calls IMO.

 

And again I respect what DaBoll accomplished here.  He deserves a lot of praise and a shot as a head coach.  But the Bills and Allen have reached the point where IMO DaBoll represented diminishing returns. So yes I think the change will be good for BOTH DaBoll and the Bills.

 

 

[bouds]

The unknown doesn't excite me as much as the known, especially after our first QB/OC/OL hires.  

[Beast]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I believe that the two playoff games are more about Allen rising to the top then DaBoll's creating a great offensive scheme. Heck the last 10 minutes in KC with Allen single handily willing the team down the field was 100% Allen - not any special play calls IMO.

 

And again I respect what DaBoll accomplished here.  He deserves a lot of praise and a shot as a head coach.  But the Bills and Allen have reached the point where IMO DaBoll represented diminishing returns. So yes I think the change will be good for BOTH DaBoll and the Bills.

 

 

 

We will agree to disagree. Brian Daboll deserves a lot of credit for what took place here the last few seasons.

[bouds]

5 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

We will agree to disagree. Brian Daboll deserves a lot of credit for what took place here the last few seasons.

All you have to do is watch the last TD to Davis to realize its as much scheme as it is execution.

 

Trips set with Diggs on the backside, Chiefs in two high, Davis in slot, Chiefs doubling Diggs most of the night, weak side safety looking to cut off any inside breaking routes to Diggs while the CB on Diggs will trail from the outside.  Putting Diggs on the backside allows the Bills to get better numbers front side, they will use 2 defenders on Diggs giving us one on one to the trips side.  Snap ball, weakside safety cheats to Diggs, Davis beat his man and the Strong Side safety can't cover that much ground when other threats are in his area as well.  Great execution, great design, takes two to tango.

Edited January 29, 2022 by bouds

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Yeah thank god a guy with a top 5 offense back to back years is gone.  What a relief 

The folks who are dancing on Daboll's grave will be singing a different tune when McD replaces him with some conservative, old fashioned, retread, or simply promotes some current Bills position coach without enough experience/intelligence to be the new OC.

 

There is a large contingent of Bills fans that seem to think every time an offensive play goes wrong, it is the OC's fault.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I don't mean to pick on you but your expectations are ridiculous.

 

Did you not watch the Bills the last month? Two games with no punts and a 36 spot in Arrowhead.

 

Please tell me, what exactly are you expecting? 

How much of the Bills the last month was Josh Allen ad libbing and how much was the result of brilliant play scheming?   

[frostbitmic]

If I'm Beane I'm doing my best right now to make Dorsey the new OC and I want it done in a couple of days. Dorsey knows the system and probably has ideas on how to improve the output with some influence from Josh.

 

If I'm Dorsey, I'd rather take the OC job in Buffalo and have Josh as my QB instead of following Daboll to Jersey and trying to stop Daniel Jones from turning the ball over every other series.

 

Daboll is now gone, time to move on. Time to promote Dorsey.

[CaptnCoke11]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The folks who are dancing on Daboll's grave will be singing a different tune when McD replaces him with some conservative, old fashioned, retread, or simply promotes some current Bills position coach without enough experience/intelligence to be the new OC.

 

There is a large contingent of Bills fans that seem to think every time an offensive play goes wrong, it is the OC's fault.

 

 

How much of the Bills the last month was Josh Allen ad libbing and how much was the result of brilliant play scheming?   

Well since i don’t sit on in meetings or meet with the coaches myself or anyone on here has no clue 

Edited January 29, 2022 by CaptnCoke11

[Bangarang]

16 minutes ago, bouds said:

The unknown doesn't excite me as much as the known, especially after our first QB/OC/OL hires.  

This team looks a bit different than in 2017 wouldn’t you say?

[HappyDays]

15 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

There is a large contingent of Bills fans that seem to think every time an offensive play goes wrong, it is the OC's fault.

 

I think when you take the ball out of the best player's hands on two 3rd downs in a shootout it is the OC's fault. Do you disagree?

[bouds]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

This team looks a bit different than in 2017 wouldn’t you say?

Mainly at QB1, WR1, and TE1, yeah, but what does that have to do with coaching hires?

 

It's going to look completely different on offensive coordinator side too.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by bouds

[Saint Doug]

So, moving on from Daboll (it doesn’t make sense to debate his good vs bad now), who’s out there that can be our OC besides Dorsey?

[Bangarang]

8 minutes ago, bouds said:

Mainly at QB1, WR1, and TE1, yeah, but what does that have to do with coaching hires?

 

It's going to look completely different on offensive coordinator side too.

 

 

What does available talent have to do with coaching hires? Quite a lot I’d imagine. Or did you think quality coaches were going to be fighting each other at the chance to work with Tyrod Taylor?

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Daboll criminally overused JA’s legs on designed runs.

Josh Allen running with the football on a designed run is the single most dangerous thing we do on offense.  I've been saying that for 4 years now.

 

We can't run him enough!  It's his greatest asset.  If he gets hurt, so be it.  He's a big, tough guy.

 

Can't live in fear and have to do what you do best.

 

When we get down to the 5 yard line and closer, it should be ALL planned Josh runs as they are almost impossible to stop down there.

 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

Uhh Don’t like it at all. This was the year to win a Super Bowl. Josh Allen will prove to be OC proof, but I like keeping the gang together as opposed to something new..

 

…I change my mind…. New offensive Coordinator will be Promised Land material!
Happens all the time

 

Daboll will suck in NJG

[HOUSE]

Greg Olson said no to the Bills the first time so this means he lacks common sense

 

-Pass

[bouds]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

What does available talent have to do with coaching hires? Quite a lot I’d imagine. Or did you think quality coaches were going to be fighting each other at the chance to work with Tyrod Taylor?

In a world where Nate Hackett is now a head coach, I don't think it's talent attracting coaching candidates that I worry about, there are 32 jobs and plenty of talented people would try their hand, it's the cream of the crop actually getting a shot rather than the good old boys sticking together.  I mean you look at McDs hires on the O side early in his career, Cully/Castillo, it was just people he knew from the Eagles.  Daboll at least was out of his sphere.  Plenty of folks want to come here and run the O, we just need to make the right hire and that's not a given, seeing as how coaches like to stay within their sphere.

 

I'm also not saying it's going to be a bad hire, we don't know, so getting back to my original post, I like the known rather than the unknown.

Edited January 29, 2022 by bouds

[fergie's ire]

I like Daboll for the most part.  Didn't agree with everything he did but overall I think he did a good job with Josh and the offense.  That said, I, too, am excited for a new OC.  My reasoning is that one of Josh's greatest talents has been his ability to absorb information and learn.  It seems it has gotten to the point where he has really mastered this offense.  With many quarterbacks I wouldn't want to mess with success when he knew the offense so well.  However, I think that if Josh has someone with a new perspective it will add to his database of knowledge.  It won't confuse him, he will just know more...which with his talent could be scary.

[Bangarang]

12 minutes ago, bouds said:

In a world where Nate Hackett is now a head coach, I don't think it's talent attracting coaching candidates that I worry about, there are 32 jobs and plenty of talented people would try their hand, it's the cream of the crop actually getting a shot rather than the good old boys sticking together.  I mean you look at McDs hires on the O side early in his career, Cully/Castillo, it was just people he knew from the Eagles.  Daboll at least was out of his sphere.  Plenty of folks want to come here and run the O, we just need to make the right hire and that's not a given, seeing as how coaches like to stay within their sphere.

 

I'm also not saying it's going to be a bad hire, we don't know, so getting back to my original post, I like the known rather than the unknown.

Head coaches are a bit different than coordinators and position coaches. 
 

A lot of guys only get one chance at becoming a HC so they don’t have the luxury of being picky. We see coordinators and position coaches get jobs all the time. 
 

This team is drastically different than in 2017. I don’t think McD will have to scrape the bottom of the barrel and go with guys he knows. It’s a much more attractive job this time.

[Since1981]

Feels like Dab+17 were in a groove the past 2 yrs. I see this at work too. people get in a groove job-wise in about yr 3. I would have liked to see another year. But, it’s a real truth that  another OC should bring new learning for 17. 

[Thrivefourfive]

I agree with that ^^ This is Josh’s team. If ANYONE on the coaching staff or roster is here longer than JA, that would be a tremendously good thing. I think at this point Allen can take on more of an offensive scheme/philosophy roll within the planning rooms. He’s pretty much done everything asked of him to become a great NFL quarterback. Next up, on the field, he’ll need to sense pressure in the pocket especially from the outside rushers who are coming from behind after Allen slides up, and become a boring ol’ pocket passer for 98% of his snaps. Career longevity should be a focus now. He literally has only one/two more years of trucking D lineman five times a game. (Hopefully none.) So a new OC and Allen’s hands-on involvement is the way this thing is headed. And I like it!

[78thealltimegreat]

2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

I personally was just blinded by his facts and statistics. He got me by his third "Is so". 

Well he is but don’t hate  appreciate https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/micah-parsons-by-the-numbers-cowboys-standout-set-to-have-greatest-rookie-season-for-defensive-player-ever/amp/ 

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Something tells me that’s more McD than Daboll…. Still believe he remains somewhat clueless offensively and trusts ball control and playing defense….with Josh Allen as his QB.😅

You may be right. That is the million dollar question.

45 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Josh Allen running with the football on a designed run is the single most dangerous thing we do on offense.  I've been saying that for 4 years now.

 

We can't run him enough!  It's his greatest asset.  If he gets hurt, so be it.  He's a big, tough guy.

 

Can't live in fear and have to do what you do best.

 

When we get down to the 5 yard line and closer, it should be ALL planned Josh runs as they are almost impossible to stop down there.

 

 

   Like driving your car to the limit without care or maintenance.

   Fun at the moment maybe but the recipe for a short lived experience,

   

[SoMAn]

Not worried about it. Maybe some new ideas would freshen up the O. 
 

No matter who ends up as coordinator, it all comes down to execution.

 

As smart as Josh is, wouldn’t mind see them speed up the pace and have him call his own plays similar to what Kelly did. 

[Comebackkid]

i guess we'll see what happens in the end.   for me personally I think it can be a good thing.  I think Daboll was instrumental in the beginning helping

Josh get going and not overloading him.   But time and time again this season I think he held both Josh and the offense back in games.   I think to many times this year he became lackadaisical in game planning and scheme.   His red zone play calling for much of the season was abysmal.   I dont think he has a great grasp of 

utilizing all the talent that he has on offense.   Yes he had a couple great games in the playoffs but I also felt there were about 4 games he handicapped the offense and cost us wins through out the season.   Another thing is he could call a beautiful game, and then the next game all that creativity was gone.   Like he had a 

total lapse in creative thought.   I also felt there were games we went against the grain of what a teams defensive weakness was and tried to force something else which had poor results.  

 

Most coaches look a lot better when their QB looks good.   I think we seen that a lot with Daboll.  

 

Good or bad next season will provide us with some answers of how much was Josh and how much was Daboll

[ColoradoBills]

It will interesting for me to see how Josh Allen's maturity into a top franchise QB will be affected by the new OC.

Will Josh get a little more input than he may of had with Daboll?

Will the new OC have something new to teach Josh in reading defenses?

How much could Josh influence the new OC with plays he liked working with Daboll?

 

It seems to me an overall positive effect could be accomplished with the right hire but only time will tell.

Josh now doubt will go through a number of OCs in his career with the Bills.

[Comebackkid]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

It will interesting for me to see how Josh Allen's maturity into a top franchise QB will be affected by the new OC.

Will Josh get a little more input than he may of had with Daboll?

Will the new OC have something new to teach Josh in reading defenses?

How much could Josh influence the new OC with plays he liked working with Daboll?

 

It seems to me an overall positive effect could be accomplished with the right hire but only time will tell.

Josh now doubt will go through a number of OCs in his career with the Bills.

which...as long as they hire good OC's u have to believe that it makes Josh a much more rounded QB knowledge wise.    its like learning more than one 

martial art in combat.   during a fight you pull from the strength of each art you have learned. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Comebackkid said:

which...as long as they hire good OC's u have to believe that it makes Josh a much more rounded QB knowledge wise.    its like learning more than one 

martial art in combat.   during a fight you pull from the strength of each art you have learned. 

 

It would be my hope.  While I do believe Dorsey could become a top OC his coaching experience revolves 100% around the Bills and Panthers.

I guess he deserves the chance if he takes it but some new blood with new ideas may not be a bad thing.

[In Summary]

You have to view the loss of Daboll as an opportunity to improve there. That's the mindset to have. Fearing change will cripple someone.

[KDIGGZ]

Anyone that watched our 2 playoff games and wanted a new OC after that can't be taken seriously as a human being. Literally 2 of the best offensive performances in post season history. You don't get better than that. If you think the offense will improve next year I have a bridge to sell you

[Comebackkid]

9 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

It would be my hope.  While I do believe Dorsey could become a top OC his coaching experience revolves 100% around the Bills and Panthers.

I guess he deserves the chance if he takes it but some new blood with new ideas may not be a bad thing.

I agree with this.  You take NE and they can afford to plug and play anyone just about because they have seen pretty much everything and not much changes 

(the knowledge is already in the building)...   but with the Bills I think they are still in a learning phase and can benefit from knowledge from sources outside of 

their little circle so far.   As far as the whole Carolina thing, its like the US splitting from Great Britian.   If you want to become your own person  (team..country)  you need to find your own foundation..ideals ...players..coaches...philosophies.   

Just now, KDIGGZ said:

Anyone that watched our 2 playoff games and wanted a new OC after that can't be taken seriously as a human being. Literally 2 of the best offensive performances in post season history. You don't get better than that. If you think the offense will improve next year I have a bridge to sell you

Josh Allen

[jkeerie]

Offensive coordinators ride with their QBs.  Look at Andy Reid as an offensive HC.  He was good but not "great" until Mahomes came along.  With Josh's success, it was inevitable that we would lose Daboll.  We will have to wait and see what the new OC brings to the table but I have every confidence that our offense will be successful as long as we have Josh and receivers that can get open and catch the ball.  If we have a better running game as well...that's just frosting on the cake.

[DCofNC]

I’m hoping Dorsey is smart enough to realize you want JA, not Dan Jones as your guy.

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Anyone that watched our 2 playoff games and wanted a new OC after that can't be taken seriously as a human being. Literally 2 of the best offensive performances in post season history. You don't get better than that. If you think the offense will improve next year I have a bridge to sell you

6 points against the worst team in football says we definitely can be more consistent why did it take to the second half of the Tampa game to realize Motor Singletary is on the roster? 

[Scott7975]

Daboll is not the only OC in the league capable of running a good offense. There were times Daboll was piss poor.  Nor is Dorsey necessarily the best man for the job.

[WyoAZBillfan]

I’m torn, I think he’s been a great coach, influence and mentor. I am reminded of when K.C. Fired one D coordinator and the next year win a Super  Bowl and that brings me hope. Josh may have made him a better coach than what his past showed also. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I do think there was somewhat of a disconnect between Daboll and McD.  Often when we'd lose McD implied there wasn't enough running plays called and most posters seemed to be in agreement and the fire Daboll threads would start.   Then other weeks, like the KC game, it seemed there were too many running plays called.  I know McD has often stated that we don't need to run more, but just need the threat to run.

 

Makes me wonder if it was somewhat of a case of the thought going through Daboll's mind.  "Need to call some running plays here to get the boss off my back"  In that respect having someone new may be better if they are more aligned.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

If not Dorsey then how about let Allen have more responsibilities with the pass game and get an OC who historically gameplans successful rushing attacks?