Ken Dorsey - would he choose OC here or leave to be Daboll's OC?

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

If the league doesn’t think it’s lateral, all beane could do is hold all the position coaches back until a new OC is selected and makes the call on who he wants. 
 

which could get spicy 

 

I’m sure daboll has a few guys he’d like to bring with him. 
 

 

 

One of the spicy aspects is that what does it say about McDermott's relationship with his offensive coaches if they want to leave success, stability and Josh Allen to join Brian Daboll in a very difficult situation in NY?    

 

Let's face it.........that Giants team has a losing culture..........the talent isn't good enough.........the salary cap situation is awful........the odds of a previously thrice fired OC like Daboll making it past 3 years in NY, objectively, gotta' be less than 20%.    Perhaps much less.

 

Personally,  as a Hurricanes fan I've never really warmed to Dorsey.   He was a weak link on what many consider the greatest collection of talent a college football team has ever had.........he choked in the second national championship game against an inferior opponent.........he hasn't exactly torn it up as an NFL coach, he's basically relied on the goodness of his Carolina connections.   The idea that me might turn his back on a promotion with McBeane.   LOL.  I was not at all thrilled about the prospect of him being the OC at the U.......let alone with the Bills.   But all that being said........you never know until you see the guy actually calling plays. 

[frostbitmic]

Time to play the Rooney rule game. If Dorsey goes to the Giants we should hire the best possible candidate that would get us two 3rd round draft choices when they get hired as a HC in a few years.

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Bills are stuck having to interview outside the organization to satisfy the coordinator rooney rule, which i get in theory, but is dumb. Most teams want to and will groom a successor from within

 

So are the Giants.

 

32 minutes ago, Mango said:

Right, if it were as simple as Dorsey leaving for a promotion. Fine.

 

But I am working under the assumption that the Bills offered the same promotion to work with one of the very best offenses in the NFL. And then Dorsey chose a bad Giants team with negative cap space and your QB is Daniel Jones in what is rumored to be a bad QB class. 

 

Again, it's one assistant coach, and who knows what his motivation is?  If it's the chance to have a safety net in Daboll and more money, there's little the Bills can do.

[WotAGuy]

29 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Time to play the Rooney rule game. If Dorsey goes to the Giants we should hire the best possible candidate that would get us two 3rd round draft choices when they get hired as a HC in a few years.

Daboll must have some minority in him to get us those picks.  Fat, bald guys with beards seems like a viable minority. 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Daboll must have some minority in him to get us those picks.  Fat, bald guys with beards seems like a viable minority. 

He was born in Canada, that should count

[Greatdane21]

I hope the Bills don’t sit back and let Shoen and Daboll gut there coaching staff. I know turnover is a highly normal occurrence in the NFL look at Andy Reid who seemingly has to replace coaches every year. While long-standing relationships are made it becomes who you trust in the long run. So who does McDermott and Beane know and trust

who have they worked for and with. Personally I  was thinking chuckys brother might be a fit ,former Washington coach and OC if they have to go outside the organization. If not promote Dorsey ,the assistant QB to QB coach and hire Webb as assistant QB  coach. But it never seems to work that way in the crazy NFL.

[purple haze]

5 hours ago, Mango said:

Right, if it were as simple as Dorsey leaving for a promotion. Fine.

 

But I am working under the assumption that the Bills offered the same promotion to work with one of the very best offenses in the NFL. And then Dorsey chose a bad Giants team with negative cap space and your QB is Daniel Jones in what is rumored to be a bad QB class. 

Why are you assuming that?  By rule they have to interview at least one other candidate as do the Giants.  And QB coach to OC would be a promotion.

 

it could be Dorsey thinks he will get more of a challenge trying to turn the Giants around as opposed to being Bienemie’d in Buffalo.  It could be he’s grown close to Daboll and wants to go help him.  It could be he’d like a change and going to the NJ/NY metro area would be fun or his wife wants to go there.  It could be he’s taking the most money.   It could be a million reasons why and none are a negative against McD or the Bills.  
 

If Dorsey is the guy, great.  If he leaves the Bills won’t lack for good options wanting to work with 17.  17 ain’t going anywhere and that’s the person who ultimately matters.  

[SectionC3]

Gotta wonder why the contract w Dorsey wasn’t written to give the Bills the right to promote upon vacancy.  Maybe it’s against league rules.  But it’s one way to handle a situation like this one.  Quickly satisfy Rooney, promote, and block.  

Edited January 30, 2022 by SectionC3

[Estro]

I tend to think if Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it probably had a lot to do with Daboll over McDermott.  If he and Daboll can turn the ship around fir the Giants they'll be kings in the biggest market in America.

 

It'd be a bad sign for us and would have me thinking how much McDermott is actually liked in the building

[Boatdrinks]

I venture that Daboll taking the Giants job gives the Bills a better shot at retaining / promoting Dorsey. Miami may have had a strong appeal. It’s now pretty simple. Stay and work with an elite QB while running and refining the Ehrhardt- Perkins system already established here. It seems Dorsey wants to be a HC , and this would probably get him inquiries after a couple seasons. If he goes to NY, he works with Jones ( or someone else) and runs the offense while still under his mentor who will get much of any credit because he’s an offensive HV. Working in Buffalo he’s under a defensive HC. If Josh wants Dorsey to stay, the Pegulas will probably pay him a hefty sum. My guess is Dorsey stays if the Bills want him to. 

[zow2]

We should just go after Bieniamy.  Yeah i bet KC has him locked down from taking a lateral move,  but the guy just can’t get out from under Andy Reid.  Maybe Beane can swoop in and work some magic.  Make him Asst head coach for offense or something.  

[Boatdrinks]

The importance of keeping Josh in the same offensive system cannot be overstated. That’s a key reason to make a strong push for Dorsey. Anything else is going to be a setback for a team that’s in a championship window now. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Boatdrinks

[ganesh]

22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but there are no good QBs coming out next year.

They can defer taking the QB to next year.  They can use those picks to build the OL

6 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

The importance of keeping Josh in the same offensive system cannot be overstated. That’s a key reason to make a sting push for Dorsey. Anything else is going to be a setback for a team that’s in a championship window now. 

Why?  Even if we have to go outside, I am sure Beane and McDermott are picking someone with similar strategies

[Doc]

26 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Why are you assuming that?  By rule they have to interview at least one other candidate as do the Giants.  And QB coach to OC would be a promotion.

 

it could be Dorsey thinks he will get more of a challenge trying to turn the Giants around as opposed to being Bienemie’d in Buffalo.  It could be he’s grown close to Daboll and wants to go help him.  It could be he’d like a change and going to the NJ/NY metro area would be fun or his wife wants to go there.  It could be he’s taking the most money.   It could be a million reasons why and none are a negative against McD or the Bills.  
 

If Dorsey is the guy, great.  If he leaves the Bills won’t lack for good options wanting to work with 17.  17 ain’t going anywhere and that’s the person who ultimately matters.  

 

Actually, going with Daboll would be Bienemy'ing him.  Staying in Buffalo means he's the man on offense. 

 

21 minutes ago, Estro said:

I tend to think if Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it probably had a lot to do with Daboll over McDermott.  If he and Daboll can turn the ship around fir the Giants they'll be kings in the biggest market in America.

 

It'd be a bad sign for us and would have me thinking how much McDermott is actually liked in the building

 

Again, it's just one assistant coach choosing to leave for the same position with another team.  More than one...you have something.

[ganesh]

24 minutes ago, Estro said:

I tend to think if Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it probably had a lot to do with Daboll over McDermott.  If he and Daboll can turn the ship around fir the Giants they'll be kings in the biggest market in America.

 

It'd be a bad sign for us and would have me thinking how much McDermott is actually liked in the building

so much speculations about McDermott without any justification

[Boatdrinks]

7 minutes ago, ganesh said:

They can defer taking the QB to next year.  They can use those picks to build the OL

Why?  Even if we have to go outside, I am sure Beane and McDermott are picking someone with similar strategies

Maybe they are. Maybe not. I don’t think there are a ton of OCs running that system right now. I can’t think of any besides McDaniels at the moment. . Maybe there are a lot of them and I’m not familiar, don’t know. Continuity in a system was huge for Brady. Josh said he felt his career changed after working with Dorsey. That’s good enough for me. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Boatdrinks

[DCBongo]

I would think he stays in Buffalo.  Josh and Dorsey have a great relationship, Josh said in his end of year presser he would want Dorsey is Daboll left.  Plus Dorsey knows what he has and what they can and can't do.  He also knows what is needed.   Designing the playbook will be that much easier when you know the players as well as he does. 

[Bangarang]

Any interest in Bill O’Brien? He runs the EP system. 

[GimmeSomeProcess]

54 minutes ago, Estro said:

I tend to think if Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it probably had a lot to do with Daboll over McDermott.  If he and Daboll can turn the ship around fir the Giants they'll be kings in the biggest market in America.

 

It'd be a bad sign for us and would have me thinking how much McDermott is actually liked in the building

Every player literally says it’s like a family here, that’s all the needs to be said. This McDermott slander needs to  stop

[UKBillFan]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

One of the spicy aspects is that what does it say about McDermott's relationship with his offensive coaches if they want to leave success, stability and Josh Allen to join Brian Daboll in a very difficult situation in NY?    

 

Let's face it.........that Giants team has a losing culture..........the talent isn't good enough.........the salary cap situation is awful........the odds of a previously thrice fired OC like Daboll making it past 3 years in NY, objectively, gotta' be less than 20%.    Perhaps much less.

 

Personally,  as a Hurricanes fan I've never really warmed to Dorsey.   He was a weak link on what many consider the greatest collection of talent a college football team has ever had.........he choked in the second national championship game against an inferior opponent.........he hasn't exactly torn it up as an NFL coach, he's basically relied on the goodness of his Carolina connections.   The idea that me might turn his back on a promotion with McBeane.   LOL.  I was not at all thrilled about the prospect of him being the OC at the U.......let alone with the Bills.   But all that being said........you never know until you see the guy actually calling plays. 

I don’t think it says anymore about their relationship with McDermott than their relationship with Josh, to be honest.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:08 PM, Best Williams Available said:

If Dorsey’s the guy to elevate Jones, says Daboll, maybe Brian knows that he himself got too much credit for Josh? Makes me think Daboll didn’t actually develop him at all and it was all Dorsey. He knows this and for him to succeed at HC he needs Dors to get the most out of Jones. 

Allen hit MVP level when Dorsey came to Buffalo. 

I fully expect Dabs to try and steal either Dorsey or Hall.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

Gotta wonder why the contract w Dorsey wasn’t written to give the Bills the right to promote upon vacancy.  Maybe it’s against league rules.  But it’s one way to handle a situation like this one.  Quickly satisfy Rooney, promote, and block.  

 

The Bills have the right to promote him.  But they can't force him to accept it, or even automatically make him the OC. because of the Rooney Rule.

 

22 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Any interest in Bill O’Brien? He runs the EP system. 

 

Have to consider every option.

[Einstein]

Forget Dorsey at this point.

 

Anyone other than Pederson is a disappointed.

 

The QB he won a Super Bowl with is currently the 3rd string QB for the Chicago Bears.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 hour ago, Estro said:

I tend to think if Dorsey chooses the Giants over the Bills it probably had a lot to do with Daboll over McDermott.  If he and Daboll can turn the ship around fir the Giants they'll be kings in the biggest market in America.

 

It'd be a bad sign for us and would have me thinking how much McDermott is actually liked in the building

Oh brother.

 

A mediocre WR got benched and now McD is slandered on the board with baseless rumors constantly being toss around. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I don’t think it says anymore about their relationship with McDermott than their relationship with Josh, to be honest.

 

 

Well maybe but, for instance, the WR coach doesn't work for Josh.......he takes his orders from McDermott so if he leaves for a lateral position that would seem to be more about the HC.

 

I'm not necessarily talking about just Dorsey............Josh has said he wanted Dorsey to stay and has been extremely complimentary.........and McDermott brought Dorsey in after he ended up at a relatively low level college job after the Panthers sh*t canned him(along with OC Mike Shula) after Cam Newton struggled for a couple years under his tutelage.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Do we know for sure Dorsey is Daboll’s top target or even a target at all?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

This may be up thread and I missed it, but someone thinks Dorsey is already gone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Dorsey

 

"Kenneth Simon Dorsey (born April 22, 1981) is an American football coach and former quarterback who is the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Giants Giants of the National Football League (NFL)."

 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This may be up thread and I missed it, but someone thinks Dorsey is already gone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Dorsey

 

"Kenneth Simon Dorsey (born April 22, 1981) is an American football coach and former quarterback who is the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Giants Giants of the National Football League (NFL)."

 

 

Well, that’s that! It’s on the internet, Wikipedia no less, so it’s a done deal.  😋

 

I trust our guys to make a good decision. Nothing and nobody is perfect, but they are well above average. From where I sit, I honestly don’t even know what to wish for. I just have to trust them. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

Well, that’s that! It’s on the internet, Wikipedia no less, so it’s a done deal.  😋

 

Just like Nick Wright's parentage 😋

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just like Nick Wright's parentage 😋

 

Poor Nick lost his schtick.  Now he has to act like he has a brain and lose all those angry clicks……

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills have the right to promote him.  But they can't force him to accept it, or even automatically make him the OC. because of the Rooney Rule.

 

 

Have to consider every option.

That’s the point.  That’s what the contract should have said.  Like the Jets did with Belichick. 

Also, on the BOB thing.  I’m all for considering the idea.  But I wonder what Brian Gaine has to say about BOB.  

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Actually, going with Daboll would be Bienemy'ing him.  Staying in Buffalo means he's the man on offense. 

 

 

Again, it's just one assistant coach choosing to leave for the same position with another team.  More than one...you have something.

Yeah, I don’t disagree that’s what happens w/Giants.   But Allen is built up now.  He might view that as diminishing returns for how the NFL world will see him.

[Einstein]

8 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Well, that’s that! It’s on the internet, Wikipedia no less, so it’s a done deal.  😋

 

I trust our guys to make a good decision. Nothing and nobody is perfect, but they are well above average. From where I sit, I honestly don’t even know what to wish for. I just have to trust them. 

 

Keep in mind that whatever happens, it doesn’t mean that it was our guys decision.

[WotAGuy]

10 hours ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Do we know for sure Dorsey is Daboll’s top target or even a target at all?

We’re 12 pages into the thread; this is immaterial at this point. 🤣

[boco357]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This may be up thread and I missed it, but someone thinks Dorsey is already gone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Dorsey

 

"Kenneth Simon Dorsey (born April 22, 1981) is an American football coach and former quarterback who is the offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Giants Giants of the National Football League (NFL)."

 

Seems like a lot on the plate for a first time OC to be QB coach too, no?

[MAJBobby]

34 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Daniel Jones has a much much higher opinion among NFL circles than people realize. Jones has been nowhere near the problem in NY. 

 

Belichick loved Daniel Jones before the 2019 Draft, and would have drafted him if he fell to him.

 

Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones.

 

Ken Dorsey probably feels the same way as Belichick and Daboll.

 

 

But does Dorsey love Daniel Jones and Dabolls shadow more than Josh Allen and immediate short listing for HC after a year with Allen calling plays?

[Einstein]

45 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Daniel Jones has a much much higher opinion among NFL circles than people realize. Jones has been nowhere near the problem in NY. 

 

Belichick loved Daniel Jones before the 2019 Draft, and would have drafted him if he fell to him.

 

Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones.

 

Ken Dorsey probably feels the same way as Belichick and Daboll.

 

 

 

He had 10 TD’s last year.

And 11 the year before that.

 

He is absolutely a major problem.

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Why do you think you know more about NFL QB play than Brian Daboll?

 

If someone offered me millions of dollars to say that Daniel Jones was good, I would sing his praises from the mountain tops.

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Daboll loves Daniel the QB for a reason.

 

Daboll loves being a head coach.

 

And the Giants were not going to hire a head coach that wasn't willing to give Daniel Jones another chance.

 

Daboll said what he had to say.

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Belichick loved him as a QB for a reason.

 

Belichick also praised Trent Edwards.

Its what he does.

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

No, he is not the problem, or anywhere close to it.

 

He's not the only problem, but he is a problem.

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

First, those low TD totals are the product of playing in a run-first offense with horrible O-Line and scheme.

 

Daniel Jones threw the ball 448 times last year. And had 11 TD's.

 

EVERY other QB who threw at least 420 times had more TD's.

 

There were guys who threw less than 400 times and had DOUBLE his TD's

 

2 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

Daniel Jones missed the final 6 weeks of the 2021 season.

 

The Giants record in those 6 games? 0-6. While failing to score 13 points in 5 of those 6 games.

 

The two games prior to him going out, the Giants scored a whopping 13 points and 10 points.

 

They scored 14 or less points in 5 games he started this season too.

[Doc]

8 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

That’s the point.  That’s what the contract should have said.  Like the Jets did with Belichick. 

Also, on the BOB thing.  I’m all for considering the idea.  But I wonder what Brian Gaine has to say about BOB.  

 

I would figure that that would at least violate the Rooney Rule.  And from what I recall about the Jets and Belicheat, they named him HC without him wanting the job and he went to the Cheaters.

 

5 hours ago, purple haze said:

Yeah, I don’t disagree that’s what happens w/Giants.   But Allen is built up now.  He might view that as diminishing returns for how the NFL world will see him.

 

Yeah but Dorsey has a far better chance to succeed with Allen as his QB, and eventually land a HC'ing job.  Most OC's get a HC'ing job based on performance of the offense as a whole, not just developing a QB.

 

58 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

Daniel Jones has a much much higher opinion among NFL circles than people realize. Jones has been nowhere near the problem in NY. 

 

Belichick loved Daniel Jones before the 2019 Draft, and would have drafted him if he fell to him.

 

Brian Daboll loves Daniel Jones.

 

Ken Dorsey probably feels the same way as Belichick and Daboll.

 

 

Obviously he's going to say he loves Jones.  It's how he got the job.  But Jones sucks.  His problems are mental and that won't be fixed by Daboll.

[Jpsredemption]

He’s gone or It would have been announced that he was staying by now.