wakingfane Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Looks like Daboll will be hired as a head coach in mid February... How do you think we will replace him? I don't think Ken Dorsey should be handed the job without a series of serious interviews with other candidates. Assuming we are sticking with the Erhardt Perkins system that narrows our options. Can we inventory the current E-P offenses in the league? Did Brady bring it to Tampa Bay? Of all the playoff teams, I feel like they most closely resemble our offense. Did New England still run an E-P system this year? It sure didn't look like a very advanced one if so... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I listed the E-P teams in the bumped Daboll to LA thread from last year.... basically this year the core E-P teams were: Buffalo, Indianapolis, New England, LAC, New Orleans, Carolina, Houston, Tampa and (to some extent) Philadelphia. I think it will be Dorsey but the external name I've thrown in the mix previously if they are looking for an E-P guy from outside the building is Sean Ryan. He spent 2021 as the Quarterbacks coach in Carolina - that's not a ringing endorsement I hear you say - and that's true. But he was a well regarded receivers coach in New York when OBJ was a rookie and then went to Houston where he was Deshaun Watson's Quarterbacks coach his first two years. After being passed over for the OC job he left to and be Matt Stafford's QB coach in Detroit before being cleaned out when Patricia's staff was fired. His star maybe isn't shining as bright as it was a couple of years ago but he is a good coach has worked exclusively with teams running the E-P. It really does depend on whether McDermott is wedded to retaining the scheme though. I have said before he first tried to hire Mike McCoy (Air Coryell), then hired Rick Dennison (Stretch zone version of the WCO), then fired him and went to Brian Daboll (E-P). That suggests to me that McDermott is more about finding a good coach rather that a specific scheme but since 2018 Josh has learned and mastered this system. Common sense would say you keep much of it the same to me. 10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehfeuh57 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 If we are not promoting from within, we are doing it wrong 13 10 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakingfane Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 48 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Let's worry about that when the time comes as we will have all off-season to discuss that. For now? Lets worry about crushing the chiefs on Sunday 💪 I was assuming that fan discussion doesn't affect the ability of the players, cosmically or otherwise... Players, positional coaches and coordinators shouldn't be thinking about this, head coach shouldn't spend more than 0.5% of his time on it this week... But with all that said... someone in the organization has the job of gathering information and being prepared for the moment when this decision actually needs to be made. That's what's made this group successful: short term and long term thinking; chewing and walking gum... Err, I mean 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, DrDare said: If we are not promoting from within, we are doing it wrong I agree actually. My first choice would be Ken Dorsey, my second choice would be Chad Hall. I think continuity should be the preference. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wakingfane Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 Yeah, just look at what Brady has been able to do by staying in the E-P system for so long and becoming a coach on the field. He's even become able to incorporate new players ina way that the system doesn't lend itself to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, wakingfane said: I was assuming that fan discussion doesn't affect the ability of the players, cosmically or otherwise... Players, positional coaches and coordinators shouldn't be thinking about this, head coach shouldn't spend more than 0.5% of his time on it this week... But with all that said... someone in the organization has the job of gathering information and being prepared for the moment when this decision actually needs to be made. That's what's made this group successful: short term and long term thinking; chewing and walking gum... Err, I mean Guarantee you that the Head Coach and the GM and Assistant GM have talked about this at some point in the last month. Any good front office worth its salt will have lists of candidates for DC and OC live at any time. Guys with experience in running the systems they run, guys who run systems they admire etc. A view on their own internal guys and who could be capable of stepping up. For now McDermott's focus will be the game but Brandon Beane and Joe Schoen will be thinking about their options, trying to work out who will or won't get fired on other staffs, speaking to coaches they might like to bring in here (even for a position coach role) and saying "don't commit yourself to anything yet we are still interested when our season is over etc". That is just how this time of year works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 We could save a lot of money with Davis Webb. 1 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Says Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, HOUSE said: We could save a lot of money with Davis Webb. Like, promoting Dorsey to OC and making Webb the QB Coach? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: I agree actually. My first choice would be Ken Dorsey, my second choice would be Chad Hall. I think continuity should be the preference. If Dorsey doesn’t get I think he goes back to u of Miami to be their oc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg S Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think they will promote Ken Dorsey. He will probably keep a lot of the schemes that they run now which is good for Allen. Josh can basically run the offense in his sleep at this point. Brady said that one of the main reasons he was so successful is because they ran the same offense year after year in NE. I am sure Dorsey might add a few concepts to it but don't overhaul it to where they have to learn a new offense. 17 is obviously comfortable with what they are doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) When you're successful, there are many advantages to continuity, so Dorsey seems like the obvious choice. He knows the scheme & plays. He knows Josh. But I know so little about Dorsey, or any other option, that I won't hazard a guess. Selfishly, I want Daboll to stay. The offense is reaching new heights under his stewardship. 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Guarantee you that the Head Coach and the GM and Assistant GM have talked about this at some point in the last month. Any good front office worth its salt will have lists of candidates for DC and OC live at any time. Guys with experience in running the systems they run, guys who run systems they admire etc. A view on their own internal guys and who could be capable of stepping up. For now McDermott's focus will be the game but Brandon Beane and Joe Schoen will be thinking about their options, trying to work out who will or won't get fired on other staffs, speaking to coaches they might like to bring in here (even for a position coach role) and saying "don't commit yourself to anything yet we are still interested when our season is over etc". That is just how this time of year works. Yep. It's called "succession planning." Good organizations do this. Beane and McD already have their Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C all worked out. Edited January 18, 2022 by hondo in seattle 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Kliff Kingsbury should be available in about 24 hours 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbite Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, stuvian said: Kliff Kingsbury should be available in about 24 hours That was pathetic last night. Thought his play-calling was suspect at best. Couldnt even get his team prepared for a playoff game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 McD will not overthink or subject himself to criticism of creating discontinuity by hiring from outside. Nor will he send the corrosive message to his staff that he doesn't value past contributions. Dorsey it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, stuvian said: Kliff Kingsbury should be available in about 24 hours I suspect Kliff gets one more crack at it but that was a disappointing effort for a vet team in win now mode. I think I count 10 of their 22 starters over the age of 30 plus Jordan Phillips and DHop who are both 29. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I'm not terribly convinced that Daboll is leaving, but it would be a monumental upset for his successor to not be Ken Dorsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think it has to be Dorsey he's got plenty of experience on the field & the side lines he knows the scheme they are using now & can keep what he likes & make improvements with in it & he has a really good working relationship with Josh . Then there is his past he was involved in taking Cam to a SB & it looks as if he will help Josh get to one too, every assistant has a time to prove they are worthy of a promotion & i think this is Dorsey's time . Consistency is all part of a team being really good & although small changes or tweaks can be good constant big changes can cause droughts as we well know & have seen in the NFL . Look at the Browns talent wise they are busting at the seams but because they have changed OC so much it's like they can't get their feet under them so i'm all for giving Dorsey the promotion to keep things relatively calm as far as scheme & coaching change on the Bills side line ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsflyer12 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Any chance Dorsey goes with Daboll to Miami or with Frazier to Bears as OC of those teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I listed the E-P teams in the bumped Daboll to LA thread from last year.... basically this year the core E-P teams were: Buffalo, Indianapolis, New England, LAC, New Orleans, Carolina, Houston, Tampa and (to some extent) Philadelphia. I think it will be Dorsey but the external name I've thrown in the mix previously if they are looking for an E-P guy from outside the building is Sean Ryan. He spent 2021 as the Quarterbacks coach in Carolina - that's not a ringing endorsement I hear you say - and that's true. But he was a well regarded receivers coach in New York when OBJ was a rookie and then went to Houston where he was Deshaun Watson's Quarterbacks coach his first two years. After being passed over for the OC job he left to and be Matt Stafford's QB coach in Detroit before being cleaned out when Patricia's staff was fired. His star maybe isn't shining as bright as it was a couple of years ago but he is a good coach has worked exclusively with teams running the E-P. It really does depend on whether McDermott is wedded to retaining the scheme though. I have said before he first tried to hire Mike McCoy (Air Coryell), then hired Rick Dennison (Stretch zone version of the WCO), then fired him and went to Brian Daboll (E-P). That suggests to me that McDermott is more about finding a good coach rather that a specific scheme but since 2018 Josh has learned and mastered this system. Common sense would say you keep much of it the same to me. Good thoughts here, I tend to agree. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Bills promoted Dorsey to OC and then pursued Sean Ryan for a lateral move for Quarterbacks coach. Yes it's a lateral move, but let's face it, unless either (i) Watson is traded to Carolina, or (ii) Sean Ryan is promoted to OC in Carolina, don't think Ryan would pass up the chance to work with Allen and reset his career. Much better gig. Of course, Carolina could try to block that as a lateral hire. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, BillnutinHouston said: McD will not overthink or subject himself to criticism of creating discontinuity by hiring from outside. Nor will he send the corrosive message to his staff that he doesn't value past contributions. Dorsey it is. I read somewhere that Dorsey wants to stay with Daboll & if Daboll gets a HC position he’s taking Ken Dorsey with him as the OC/Asst. HC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GustheDog33 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Also in-house is Rob Boras. He is a former OC and play-caller in the league and has been in Buffalo on staff as the TE Coach since 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Not so fast! I'll believe Daboll is gone when he's gone. May well happen, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I think he'll stay. EDIT: Don't forget, job interviews are a chance for these organizations to bring in a top OC like Daboll, and pick his brain, FOR FREE, asking him how he would do things differently. I'd have LONG, DELIBERATE interviews with 10 of these guys! Just for the knowledge/perspective gained. Doesn't mean you're going to hire them. Edited January 18, 2022 by Nextmanup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I can't believe people are worried about what happens if coaches leave. I guess they doubt McD's ability to hire/promote new people into those positions. As if the HC hasn't been planning for this the past season or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaFitz1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Dorsey makes the most sense. He was a pro scout in Carolina before being promoted to QB coach where he made the playoffs in 4 out of 5 years and a SB. Plus worked with Newton and helped develop him in to a MVP. He's been working with Allen since 2019 and helped develop him in a MVP caliber player. Additionally, he was given the added responsibility of passing game coordinator in 2020. Plus he's played in the league under Erickson and Crennel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 hours ago, stuvian said: Kliff Kingsbury should be available in about 24 hours Losing a playoff game shouldn't get a coach fired, IMO. Rams are a Pro Bowl roster that has been hit or miss all year. When they show up and everything is clicking and good Stafford shows up good luck against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills404 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 minute ago, FlaFitz1 said: Dorsey makes the most sense. He was a pro scout in Carolina before being promoted to QB coach where he made the playoffs in 4 out of 5 years and a SB. Plus worked with Newton and helped develop him in to a MVP. He's been working with Allen since 2019 and helped develop him in a MVP caliber player. Additionally, he was given the added responsibility of passing game coordinator in 2020. Plus he's played in the league under Erickson and Crennel. He wasn't the passing game coordinator until this year, and our passing game took a noticeable step back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaFitz1 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, gobills404 said: He wasn't the passing game coordinator until this year, and our passing game took a noticeable step back. I was going by his bio on the team site - not when it was reported. https://bufbills.com/player-bios/ken_dorsey.pdf As for step back - yes they took a bit of one but I think that had to do a lot with line play and a lack of a running game for the bulk of the year. Edited January 18, 2022 by FlaFitz1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, wakingfane said: Looks like Daboll will be hired as a head coach in mid February... How do you think we will replace him? I don't think Ken Dorsey should be handed the job without a series of serious interviews with other candidates. Assuming we are sticking with the Erhardt Perkins system that narrows our options. Can we inventory the current E-P offenses in the league? Did Brady bring it to Tampa Bay? Of all the playoff teams, I feel like they most closely resemble our offense. Did New England still run an E-P system this year? It sure didn't look like a very advanced one if so... Daboll - I dont think a hire is definite to be honest. Dorsey - Likely move Joe Brady - would be my choice if going outside the organization. Talking with Fans in Mia - When Daboll gets brought up, their answers are SURE IF he is brining Allen and the Bills OL. Without that I want nothing to do with Daboll. The perception at least from most fans is Dabolls Success is directly tied to Allen. And is an outlier for his career. So they say no thanks. i know FO are not fans, but giving a perspective of the fan bases he is being tied to. Example MIA would rather have Frazier if they were to choose between the two Bills Coordinators. Edited January 18, 2022 by MAJBobby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I am of the opinion that Dorsey has been groomed to take over knowing that Dabol will receive intense interest as a HC, especially considering he was promoted to passing game coordinator... with 25% of the league searching for a HC, this will be the year Dabol leaves unfortunately. All indications are it will be Dorsey and that is a smart move and planning. Succession planning for your Coordinators should be of utmost importance for successful teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheyCallMeAndy Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 WE 👏🏻 CANT 👏🏻 LOSE 👏🏻 DORSEY 👏🏻 Losing DaBoll (still an overrated OC in my mind) AND Dorsey would be terrible for the offense. 2 hours ago, BuffaloFan68 said: I read somewhere that Dorsey wants to stay with Daboll & if Daboll gets a HC position he’s taking Ken Dorsey with him as the OC/Asst. HC I’ve heard Frazier wants him also, doesn’t mean he’d go. If offered OC here, I think he’d stay with his young elite MVP level QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Semi-serious: could Josh just call all his own plays? 🤔 At this point I’d trust him as much as Kelly to do so… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Daboll - I dont think a hire is definite to be honest. Dorsey - Likely move Joe Brady - would be my choice if going outside the organization. Talking with Fans in Mia - When Daboll gets brought up, their answers are SURE IF he is brining Allen and the Bills OL. Without that I want nothing to do with Daboll. The perception at least from most fans is Dabolls Success is directly tied to Allen. And is an outlier for his career. So they say no thanks. i know FO are not fans, but giving a perspective of the fan bases he is being tied to. Example MIA would rather have Frazier if they were to choose between the two Bills Coordinators. While there definitely is some scheme read across from that Payton tree with Joe Brady... it is fundamentally an E-P... after watching is play calling in Carolina the last two years I'm not sure I'd hire him to be a play caller in the NFL. He got fired for a reason. He stunk. 2 hours ago, MAJBobby said: Talking with Fans in Mia - When Daboll gets brought up, their answers are SURE IF he is brining Allen and the Bills OL. Without that I want nothing to do with Daboll. The perception at least from most fans is Dabolls Success is directly tied to Allen. And is an outlier for his career. So they say no thanks. i know FO are not fans, but giving a perspective of the fan bases he is being tied to. Example MIA would rather have Frazier if they were to choose between the two Bills Coordinators. Interesting. I am friends with a few Bears fans in different contexts (i.e. they are not all friends with each other) and to a man they all want Daboll as absolutely their #1 choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Billsflyer12 said: Any chance Dorsey goes with Daboll to Miami or with Frazier to Bears as OC of those teams? Zero. He has been groomed by McDermott to take the Buffalo Bills OC spot. Why would he pick Tua over Josh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve O Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Not so fast! I'll believe Daboll is gone when he's gone. May well happen, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I think he'll stay. I mean, to paraphrase that guy on the Progressive commercial, Let's not talk about replacing him until he's actually interviewed for another job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think Dorsey stays as OC. If he wants to become a HC he should stay with his blue chip QB and this ridiculous receiving corps. Following Daboll or Frazier elsewhere is a crap shoot if it's about taking the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 7 hours ago, gobills404 said: He wasn't the passing game coordinator until this year, and our passing game took a noticeable step back. Because our offensive line collapsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Only thing I don’t like is if we do not hire from within this year there are so many new coaches to be hired and staffs to be filled and we will be gettibg a late start because of the lateness we will lose Dabol and Fraiser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 8 hours ago, BuffaloFan68 said: I read somewhere that Dorsey wants to stay with Daboll & if Daboll gets a HC position he’s taking Ken Dorsey with him as the OC/Asst. HC In one of the dozen other "Daboll is heading to..." threads?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I would go in house for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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