Week 16: Bills at Pats - DISCUSSION

[RichRiderBills]

I think Dawkins conditioning has been an issue all year. He's not the kind of guy I'd expect to be gtg after sitting around for a week and activated Friday or Saturday.

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, Beerball said:

Nothing of the sort. Are you saying the Bills could've scored at will?

No, I'm asking what you mean. You said the Pats could've scored 21 if they had to.

3 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

He wore one in the dome against Indy too for some reason. Did wonders for him in that game. 

They can't deflate the footballs anymore, so glove it is.

[balln]

23 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm with you.  It would be real interesting to know whether he has had any symptoms.  I mean the guy is fully vaccinated AND he has natural immunity from having had covid previously. 

 

My only question and I hope I don't get put in timeout for raising this, was Dawkins hospitalization a result of a covid infection or a weird reaction between covid and the vaccine?  According to reports he was within a couple of days of having fully completed his vaccine regimen. This means that he got his first shot and then a month later he got his 2nd shot and then was infected about 10 days after the 2nd shot.  Do people really believe that those last couple of days were that critical? You don't think that two weeks after the 2nd shot doesn't contain a little wiggle room?

 

When I was vaccinated I had a terrible reaction to my first shot.  Six months previously I had  gotten the covid and my doctor explained that my bad reaction - I was close to going to the ER - was a result of my previously being infected.  I bring this up only because Dawkins should ave cleared the protocol by now.

 

 

 

 

vacc and natural immunity wane. they wane. this has been known for a long time. hence the boosters. 

[psuscott16]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Somewhat perplexed at the Dawkins situation…. You’d think he’d have mild or no symptoms at this point after having it over the summer….wondering if he just hasn’t tested negative yet. 

 

My cousin has had covid 3 times and was badly sick all 3 times. Once was after he was vaccinated.

[Big Blitz]

Mac Jones has completed 40 fewer passes then Matthew Stafford.

 

And has almost 1000 fewer yards.  

 

 

I don't know where I'm going with that it's just mind blowing to me.  

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, psuscott16 said:

 

My cousin has had covid 3 times and was badly sick all 3 times. Once was after he was vaccinated.

That seems incredibly unlucky

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I'm with you.  It would be real interesting to know whether he has had any symptoms.  I mean the guy is fully vaccinated AND he has natural immunity from having had covid previously. 

 

My only question and I hope I don't get put in timeout for raising this, was Dawkins hospitalization a result of a covid infection or a weird reaction between covid and the vaccine?  According to reports he was within a couple of days of having fully completed his vaccine regimen. This means that he got his first shot and then a month later he got his 2nd shot and then was infected about 10 days after the 2nd shot.  Do people really believe that those last couple of days were that critical? You don't think that two weeks after the 2nd shot doesn't contain a little wiggle room?

 

Full immunity can actually take longer than 2 weeks after the 2nd shot to develop.  The "2 weeks" is an average representing a "typical" response.  We used to say "takes 6-8 weeks to build full immunity if you tell your immune system to hurry, and 6-8 weeks if you don't". 

 

The piece you're missing is that if Dawkins got symptoms 10 days after his second shot, that means he was exposed/infected some time earlier.  Typical for Delta was 4-5 days, range of 2-14 days.  So Dawkins could have been exposed and started incubating covid right around the time he got his 2nd shot or shortly thereafter.

 

No, Dawkins didn't have a weird vaccine reaction.  The vaccine can not cause you to test positive for Covid.  He tested positive.  He had Covid.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

11 hours ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

He wore one in the dome against Indy too for some reason. Did wonders for him in that game. 

The media will be all over this.   "The glove is just further proof that Mac is the second coming of Tom Brady! Rabble, Rabble, Rabble"

[Commish]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Full immunity can actually take longer than 2 weeks after the 2nd shot to develop.  The "2 weeks" is an average representing a "typical" response.  We used to say "takes 6-8 weeks to build full immunity if you tell your immune system to hurry, and 6-8 weeks if you don't". 

 

The piece you're missing is that if Dawkins got symptoms 10 days after his second shot, that means he was exposed/infected some time earlier.  Typical for Delta was 4-5 days, range of 2-14 days.  So Dawkins could have been exposed and started incubating covid right around the time he got his 2nd shot or shortly thereafter.

 

No, Dawkins didn't have a weird vaccine reaction.  The vaccine can not cause you to test positive for Covid.  He tested positive.  He had Covid.

 

 

Dawkins tested positive within the two week period after his second shot - that means he was exposed days prior to that:

 

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/it-was-one-of-the-lowest-points-i-ve-ever-been

[eball]

Current weather forecast:  39 degrees, 14 mph winds, no precipitation.

 

Perfect for the Bills.  Just enough wind to bother limp noodle Jones, but insignificant to Josh.

[HamSandwhich]

Any update on Dawkins? He is a big key to this weekend, really need him if he’s not dealing with actual effects. 

[CSBill]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Still no news on Dawkins?! 

 

Apparently he's a Pro-Bowl player now, so that is news.

 

But somehow we missed that here at TBD, when did his play this season merit this recognition?

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by CSBill

[Beerball]

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

No, I'm asking what you mean. You said the Pats could've scored 21 if they had to.

 

Yes, that is what I mean.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Beerball said:

Yes, that is what I mean.

BB has never shown compunction about running up the score. It wasn't a prudential calculation to only score 14.

[Beerball]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

BB has never shown compunction about running up the score. It wasn't a prudential calculation to only score 14.

Conditions were not normal, were they?

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, CSBill said:

 

Apparently he's an All-Pro now, so that is news.

 

But somehow we missed that here at TBD, when did his play this season merit All-Pro recognition?

 

 

He’s not all pro.  He made the pro bowl.  

Edited December 23, 2021 by NewEra

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Beerball said:

Conditions were not normal, were they?

Well, I'm not reading through the thread. Maybe I misunderstood. I inferred your claim was they could have scored 21 in the game in Buffalo. Conditions limited both teams, but I don't see how that contributes to any assertion the Pats* were capable of more points, but tactically restrained themselves. Obviously, for this coming weekend, you wouldn't put a 14 point ceiling on either team.

[Son of a K-Gun]

51 minutes ago, eball said:

Current weather forecast:  39 degrees, 14 mph winds, no precipitation.

 

Perfect for the Bills.  Just enough wind to bother limp noodle Jones, but insignificant to Josh.

14 mph winds look at Josh Allen and turn the other way.

[CSBill]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Somewhat perplexed at the Dawkins situation…. You’d think he’d have mild or no symptoms at this point after having it over the summer….wondering if he just hasn’t tested negative yet. 

 

Well, he had severe symptoms last time. I hope not, but does that indicate he is more susceptible to it? Is he the teammate that Beasley was referring to being in the hospital? Again, I do hope not. But past performance (past reaction) is an indicator; he may be walloped by it again?

 

[CSBill]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s not all pro.  He made the pro bowl.  

 

fixed, thanks

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Maybe… the guy is fully vaccinated and had the virus so my thought was he has natural immunity along with the vaccine so the symptoms would be mild if anything…. Then again he is an obese human being so perhaps not…. Unfortunately I can see the Bills being completely ***** this weekend without him. The offensive line is a cluster ***** with him, let alone without him. 

The OL will likely be the reason we win, if they play like they don’t suck.  While also being the reason that we lose, because they actually do suck 

[PolishDave]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Maybe… the guy is fully vaccinated and had the virus so my thought was he has natural immunity along with the vaccine so the symptoms would be mild if anything…. Then again he is an obese human being so perhaps not…. Unfortunately I can see the Bills being completely ***** this weekend without him. The offensive line is a cluster ***** with him, let alone without him. 

 

Could be Dawkins has a compromised immune system for one reason or another.   There have been people in their twenties who died as a direct result of Covid because their immune system couldn't fight it off.    Not every twenty something person is going to breeze through Covid easy peasy.   Some are going to be devastated by it.      After getting so sick the first time with Covid, it seems plausible to me that Dawkins might be one of those twenty somethings whose immune system sees Covid as Superman sees Kryptonite.   I think there was news that the fatter you are, the more likely you are to have a bad outcome from Covid. 

[Since1981]

20 minutes ago, CSBill said:

severe symptoms last time

That’s crazy. Gets twice, likely vaccinated. “Russian roulette” on how it applies to people. Yes, a big dude but he’s also a young, professional athlete!

[Greg S]

The key to this game IMHO is Singletary. Belichick is famous for taking away what the other team does best. He is going to have a plan in place to limit Allen's ability to throw. He will try to limit Diggs, Knox, and Davis as well as Allen's ability to run. This is where the Bills OL and Singletary need to step up. If they can be successful running the ball then that will open everything else up. If Singletary has a good game the Bills win. If he doesn't the Bills will lose. I think he does and the Bills win 27-24 in a very hard fought game.

[Royale with Cheese]

I might go to this game....flights aren't bad right now.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Josh has been Superman for two years in a row… really tired of their defense heavy approach while making Josh carry the offense.

All we can do is wait and hope that Beane doesn’t make the same mistake this offseason 

[RiotAct]

13 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

Glove. Wearing. Mary. 

 

they’re trying to cater to the large “Chet and Muffy” contingent in Boston.

[Fan in Chicago]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Full immunity can actually take longer than 2 weeks after the 2nd shot to develop.  The "2 weeks" is an average representing a "typical" response.  We used to say "takes 6-8 weeks to build full immunity if you tell your immune system to hurry, and 6-8 weeks if you don't". 

 

The piece you're missing is that if Dawkins got symptoms 10 days after his second shot, that means he was exposed/infected some time earlier.  Typical for Delta was 4-5 days, range of 2-14 days.  So Dawkins could have been exposed and started incubating covid right around the time he got his 2nd shot or shortly thereafter.

 

No, Dawkins didn't have a weird vaccine reaction.  The vaccine can not cause you to test positive for Covid.  He tested positive.  He had Covid.

 

 

(feel free to bump me to your Covid thread if this is not the appropriate place for my question)

 

I see that a higher BMI is correlated to the risk for infection. In that case, even with a higher muscle mass, aren't linemen like Dawkins more susceptible to catching Covid?

I couldnt find this info, but is the quantity of vaccine administered dependent on weight and BMI? I thought it is a standard quantity for all but is there data to suggest that the quantities administered should be higher for heavier people?

[PolishDave]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

(feel free to bump me to your Covid thread if this is not the appropriate place for my question)

 

I see that a higher BMI is correlated to the risk for infection. In that case, even with a higher muscle mass, aren't linemen like Dawkins more susceptible to catching Covid?

I couldnt find this info, but is the quantity of vaccine administered dependent on weight and BMI? I thought it is a standard quantity for all but is there data to suggest that the quantities administered should be higher for heavier people?

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

 

Quote" Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19"

[Fan in Chicago]

21 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

As long as they don't cut down on Gabe's snaps....

Given how he has come on (Moulds like) over the past few games, that won't happen. If he isn't already, he should be officially our #2. Tough twinkle-toed dude. 

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, Beerball said:

Conditions were not normal, were they?

I am trying to follow and understand your logic. Are you saying that BB stopped trying to score because he thought 4 points was sufficient margin to win the game? Which also implies that you think the Pats** could score at will in that game (not saying anything about the Bills ability as clearly they were unable to score more).

Do explain more. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

(feel free to bump me to your Covid thread if this is not the appropriate place for my question)

 

I see that a higher BMI is correlated to the risk for infection. In that case, even with a higher muscle mass, aren't linemen like Dawkins more susceptible to catching Covid?

I couldnt find this info, but is the quantity of vaccine administered dependent on weight and BMI? I thought it is a standard quantity for all but is there data to suggest that the quantities administered should be higher for heavier people?

 

I think this is relevant to the football discussion.

 

Yes, obesity is a significant risk factor for a poor Covid-19 outcome, and most football linemen (certainly OL and DT, sometimes TE) are obese by BMI. 

 

No, there is one adult dose of vaccine.    Doing anything else complicates the logistics of a clinical trial rather formidably.  You would basically have to run 3+ clinical trials to ensure that side effects remained low in the high BMI/high dose group  while effectiveness remained high in the low mass/low dose group.  But the data are examined to see if there is evidence of decreased effectiveness in high BMI individuals or increased side effects in low mass adults. 

 

The more significant factor is individual variation in immune system, which is huge.  Some people just don't mount much of an immune response.  With some (limited target population) vaccines, Ab response has actually been measured and extra doses given if none was observed.  It was found that for a normal 2 dose vaccine, some people take 3-5 doses to seroconvert (show antibodies).

 

My guess is that Dawkins would fall into the latter group. 

 

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

17 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

 

Quote" Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19"

The information at that link is the one I had read. I was wondering more about the susceptibility to infection. Which Hapless just answered

[Greg S]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

All we can do is wait and hope that Beane doesn’t make the same mistake this offseason 

 

If he doesn't then I will really begin to question what he is doing here. This is question for a different thread and probably for the offseason but who are the top OL prospects who will be available when the Bills pick in Rd 1.

[Fan in Chicago]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think this is relevant to the football discussion.

 

Yes, obesity is a significant risk factor for a poor Covid-19 outcome, and most football linemen (certainly OL and DT, sometimes TE) are obese by BMI. 

 

No, there is one adult dose of vaccine.    Doing anything else complicates the logistics of a clinical trial rather formidably.  But data are examined to see if there is evidence of decreased effectiveness in high BMI individuals or increased side effects in low mass adults. 

 

The more significant factor is individual variation in immune system, which is huge.  Some people just don't mount much of an immune response.  With some (limited target population) vaccines, Ab response has been measured and extra doses given if none was observed.  It was found that for a normal 2 dose vaccine, some people take 3-5 doses to seroconvert (show antibodies).

 

 

 

Thanks and makes sense. I suppose there are likely to be a lot of factors which cause variations in immune response. Besides the ones you mentioned, a doc friend had told me that childhood vaccinations also may have an impact (me being born in India, as kids, we were given mandatory BCG and smallpox vaccines)

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

If he doesn't then I will really begin to question what he is doing here. This is question for a different thread and probably for the offseason but who are the top OL prospects who will be available when the Bills pick in Rd 1.

Tyler Linderbloom, C, Iowa- 6’2 290ish

He’s a wrestler and on the smaller side, but he’s extremely athletic and uses his hands and leverage with the best of them.  A polished run blocker that is almost can’t miss in that regard.  A bit of a gamble for us if we take him as he’s just an ok in pass protection.  Many say he’s a lock for top 10-25, so he may or may not be there for us in rd 1.

 

I haven’t really watched any other IOL to this point

[Greg S]

Just now, NewEra said:

Tyler Linderbloom, C, Iowa- 6’2 290ish

He’s a wrestler and on the smaller side, but he’s extremely athletic and uses his hands and leverage with the best of them.  A polished run blocker that is almost can’t miss in that regard.  A bit of a gamble for us if we take him as he’s just an ok in pass protection.  Many say he’s a lock for top 10-25, so he may or may not be there for us in rd 1.

 

I haven’t really watched any other IOL to this point

 

Thanks for the info. I really hope Beane can improve the lines on both sides of the ball. On the DL its more the interior. On the OL I would look at everything. Give Allen better pass protection and run game and the Bills will eventually be Super Bowl champions. I hope it happens this year but I am not to confident it will. TBH.

[BearNorth]

1 hour ago, CSBill said:

 

 Is he the teammate that Beasley was referring to being in the hospital?

 

I think the teammate in the Hospital he was referring to is Feliciano.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

If your post showed up over here, it's because at member request, we're trying to break out "NEWS" and "DISCUSSION"

Click on the date/time in the top left of the post you want to reply to.

It will give you a link (or use the "share" "copy link" choice on a mobile device)

Go to the DISCUSSION thread, hit "reply", click on the paper clip, paste your link, and discuss to your heart's content.

 

My $0.02 is that the majority of folks aren't enthused about this idea

But then the majority of folks aren't enthused when the News of the week becomes un-findable because it's swallowed by banter and chit chat so 🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

I think the teammate in the Hospital he was referring to is Feliciano.

 

Feliciano's twitter on Tues Dec 21 referenced him leaving his hotel room to go get a 90 minute antibody infusion

So if he was in the hospital, it wasn't for very long.