Proposed rule change re PI

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

[Do The Reich Thing]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

By saying “catchable” you’re still leaving it as a judgment call. This solves nothing unfortunately. 

[Dan]

Any way you slice it, the Bills will get more ticky tack calls on them.   Until Pegula gets on the competition committee and starts padding pockets, we’re getting screwed no matter how they change the rule book. 

[Thurman#1]

It wouldn't hurt back shoulder throws it would pretty much eliminate them.

 

Any time a receiver tried to slow down and go back for the ball the DBs would be coached to keep running and run them over.

[4_kidd_4]

Make PI reviewable. 

[zow2]

I'm sure Brady, Evans and his other WR's work on PI in practice a bit.  Brady has used that penalty as a weapon for years.

[SoCal Deek]

Or how about we take advantage of the same rule that other team’s use against us? How about that? Hmmm?

[LV Bills fan]

12 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Make PI reviewable. 

They tried that and still got the calls wrong. 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

 

How about anytime a receiver is grabbed and pulled by the Jersey too? Oh wait...that already is considered PI...unless it happens to Diggs.

[BeastMaster]

The league will always leave a "grey area" where it gives them room to make or not make calls.

 

This is by design, so they can do exactly what they did to us against Tampa.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 minute ago, BeastMaster said:

The league will always leave a "grey area" where it gives them room to make or not make calls.

 

This is by design, so they can do exactly what they did to us against Tampa.

Are you saying that they always leave a little gray area in case the game needs a little help (wink) (wink)?

[All_Pro_Bills]

I propose removal of the sub-section of the pass interference rule that "allows defenders to interfere with, impede, grab, or hold Bills receivers and not receive a penalty".  

Edited December 13, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[BRH]

This rule change will be implemented the year after Brady retires.

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

How about anytime a receiver is grabbed and pulled by the Jersey too? Oh wait...that already is considered PI...unless it happens to Diggs.

 

I love that whenever it is called and they go to the replay the announcer says “that’ll be called every time.”

 

Every time indeed.  Except on Stefon Diggs against Tampa.

[racketmaster]

PI calls around the league are terrible and so costly. The refs are so inconsistent and they are huge momentum plays especially when many of these weak armed qbs that throw up ducks and have their wrs come back to the ball and the defender bumps into them and flags are thrown. To me, it is a bail out call as the balls are often uncatchable or terrible passes that reward the qb. Plus, some teams get the calls much more often then others. Too often the Bills have been on the short end of the stick. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, LV Bills fan said:

They tried that and still got the calls wrong. 

Because they tried to get it wrong. The officials hated the new PI review rule and basically did the equivalent of a work slowdown at the behest of the incompetent Al Riveron.

Edited December 13, 2021 by dave mcbride

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, LV Bills fan said:

They tried that and still got the calls wrong. 

They got the calls wrong because they wanted to get rid of the PI replays.  The act of making PI reviewable was clearly to show every one they were trying to fix a major problem, when in actuality, that’s all that it was….a show.  They still refused to over turn them, almost as if to prove that the officiating was just fine the way it was.  
 

nonsense.  If the refs did their job correctly last night, we win.  They failed. 

[Big Blitz]

Not sure if posted anywhere 

 

 

 

[Bookie Man]

No more spot fouls. 10 yards automatic first down. And yes no ticky tack calls. It’s so lame every time it seems there’s a good play on a 50/50 ball, you’re holding your breath to see if the refs throw a flag. Then yep about 3 seconds after the play, a yellow flag comes flying into the screen. 

[MPT]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Or how about we take advantage of the same rule that other team’s use against us? How about that? Hmmm?

 

If we don't get the call when Diggs gets hauled down by his collar or when his shirt is being dragged a yard behind him, we're not going to get the designed interference call. That play only exists for certain teams.

[Bob in STL]

9 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

Take out the word “catchable”.   Instead use wording that doesn’t penalize the DB for under-thrown balls.  If the WR must change direction and come back toward the LOS then the DB has rights to hold his position.   In a league that wants scoring this will be a hard sell. 

[Beast]

7 minutes ago, ßookie_tech said:

No more spot fouls. 10 yards automatic first down. And yes no ticky tack calls. It’s so lame every time it seems there’s a good play on a 50/50 ball, you’re holding your breath to see if the refs throw a flag. Then yep about 3 seconds after the play, a yellow flag comes flying into the screen. 

 

Then all you have to do is mug the receiver on a long pass if you feel you've been beat or lost position.  I'm not down with a 10 yard penalty at all. That's a win for the defense.

 

Better officiating is the answer. 

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

IMO there is not a more frustrating penalty that DPI on an underthrown ball.  It needs addressed somehow. 

[zow2]

The NFL put in a challenge for DPI a few years ago after the Rams/Saints debacle.  But the overturn rate was like 0.0005%.  So they dropped that challenge.  No referee would overturn DPI, it was ridiculous.   It was like collusion by the refs to mock the challenge and never overturn it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Both calls to me were questionable.  Jackson had his head around on the gronk one - and while there was a fair amount of contact, a lot was initiated by gronk.  As for the wallace one, his head was kind of around and i guess he was late to do it, but its tough to tell because evans didnt play the ball - he played wallace and basically yanked him down.  

[Big Turk]

58 minutes ago, BRH said:

This rule change will be implemented the year after Brady retires.

 

I love that whenever it is called and they go to the replay the announcer says “that’ll be called every time.”

 

Every time indeed.  Except on Stefon Diggs against Tampa.

 

Honestly it's been except on Diggs against anybody...started in the AFCCG last year against KC where the Bills receivers were getting mugged all game and almost no calls.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

What about half the distance to the spot of the foul?

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, zow2 said:

The NFL put in a challenge for DPI a few years ago after the Rams/Saints debacle.  But the overturn rate was like 0.0005%.  So they dropped that challenge.  No referee would overturn DPI, it was ridiculous.   It was like collusion by the refs to mock the challenge and never overturn it.

 

It was funny that one of the only ones I remember getting overturned was in our first game against the Jets that wiped out a Jet TD because their guy got called for OPI on the review.

[Bookie Man]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Then all you have to do is mug the receiver on a long pass if you feel you've been beat or lost position.  I'm not down with a 10 yard penalty at all. That's a win for the defense.

 

Better officiating is the answer. 

How is there going to be better officiating? How long has officiating been *****? Basically forever. Do you really believe they’re going to all of a sudden get better? That’s just simply not happening. Therefore minimize the effect they can have on the game. You think 10 yards and automatic 1st down is a win for the defense? So on 3rd and 19 and it’s defensive holding, is that a win for the defense? 

[Beast]

Just now, ßookie_tech said:

How is there going to be better officiating? How long has officiating been *****? Basically forever. Do you really believe they’re going to all of a sudden get better? That’s just simply not happening. Therefore minimize the effect they can have on the game. You think 10 yards and automatic 1st down is a win for the defense? So on 3rd and 19 and it’s defensive holding, is that a win for the defense? 

 

The bottom line is a 10 yard penalty is incentive for the defense to interfere on long passes.

 

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

[Alphadawg7]

13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

 

Honestly, its a major issue.  Levi had perfect coverage in the Steelers game on Claypool and got flagged for a PI because the ball was under thrown and Claypool initiated and made all the contact.  Fast forward to last Bucs game, same thing, perfect coverage on Evans and once again Evans mauled Levi and we get the flag.  Evans mauled Levi so much, for a moment I thought it could be offensive PI.  Both these plays significantly impacted the result of the game.

 

Better solution is this:  If the offensive player initiates the contact while in motion that is still taking him away from the ball, its not PI on the defender.  That would solve this problem IMO, and its a problem that needs solving.  

 

Alternate solution:  Similar to above, but call offensive PI in the case where the receiver initiates the contact and mauls the defender like Claypool and Evans both did.  If the refs started calling the receivers for offensive PI (and believe me, its something that already needs to be called more as receivers get away with pushing off all the time across the league while defenders constantly draw ticky tack PI or illegal contact flags) then it would reduce the effectiveness of this bail out play by the QB.   

 

Additional alternate solution:  At the very least, substantially reduce the penalty of this flag.  Instead of a first down at the spot of the foul, make the foul incidental contact given the DB did not initiate it, and make it like a 5 yard penalty and replay the down...or even just replay the down.  Giving teams the ball 40-50 yards down field on something like this is just way too impactful, especially given when the DB didn't commit any actual PI.  

 

End of the day, its just unreasonable for the DB to be in coverage and running in a sprint down field with the WR and know the ball is under-thrown.  You are talking about all out sprints down field usually with fast receivers...a DB cant be expected to stay toe to toe with someone like Evans and also be looking back at the ball to know its under thrown.  They usually don't know until the last second when the receiver is trying to reach back for the ball.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Then all you have to do is mug the receiver on a long pass if you feel you've been beat or lost position.  I'm not down with a 10 yard penalty at all. That's a win for the defense.

 

Better officiating is the answer. 

 

21 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

The bottom line is a 10 yard penalty is incentive for the defense to interfere on long passes.

 

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

 

I think you are completely missing the point here based on your replies.

 

You still get called for PI if you "mug the receiver".  What about the OP would give you the impression of that in the first place?  

 

What he is saying, and he is correct, that it should NOT be PI when the defender does not actually commit any actions to intentionally interfere with the pass.  In other words, like on the Evans play and the Claypool play week 1...if the defender does NOT initiate the contact or commit any other type of interference, it should not be PI just because the QB put the ball in a place his WR could not get to.

 

In both those plays, Levi had perfect coverage, did NOT grab the receiver in any way.  In fact, in both cases, Claypool and Evans both mauled him.  That should NOT be at the fault of the defender that the QB did NOT get the ball to the proper spot of the WR.  Honestly, it should be offensive PI when the receiver mauls the defender on an under thrown pass.

 

If the QB puts the ball in place that is behind the WR, that is on the QB and should not penalize the DB.  Now if the DB grabs the receiver or commits any normal kind of PI, then the PI should be called as usual.  

 

Also, these judgement plays should be reviewable.  

[boco357]

The Saints got a non call out of a Super bowl and nothing was done, so nothing will continue to be done.  Unless one of the favorite sons is on the receiving end, which won't happen.

[Mr. WEO]

13 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

 

 

this is already part of the rule:

 

It's not PI if:

 

(c) Contact that would normally be considered pass interference, but the pass is clearly uncatchable by the involved players,
except as specified in 8-3-2 and 8-5-4 pertaining to blocking downfield by the offense.

[Nextmanup]

6 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Make PI reviewable. 

I would propose eliminating the entire "review" process.

 

No second looks for anything.

The game would be just as poorly called as it is now, only it would move along much faster.

 

 

[JoPoy88]

14 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I have been chewing on this for a while, but what drives me crazy are the DPI calls on underthrown balls. Those balls have almost zero chance of getting caught; are usually poorly thrown balls; and penalize DB’s who are usually in a great coverage position.
 

My proposed rule change is that an underthrown ball is not deemed “catchable,” such that PI does not apply. 
 

I think this would eliminate the majority of these game-changing PI calls where receivers are able to draw penalties on poorly thrown balls. (The only potential downside is that it could hurt QB’s throwing back shoulder passes— but that’s it as far as I can tell). 
 

Thoughts? 

It’s a great idea on paper. i have absolutely no confidence in current NFL officials to competently enforce it. Adds another “judgment call” layer when the refs have definitively proven they cannot handle such responsibilities.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

I think you are completely missing the point here based on your replies.

 

You still get called for PI if you "mug the receiver".  What about the OP would give you the impression of that in the first place?  

 

What he is saying, and he is correct, that it should NOT be PI when the defender does not actually commit any actions to intentionally interfere with the pass.  In other words, like on the Evans play and the Claypool play week 1...if the defender does NOT initiate the contact or commit any other type of interference, it should not be PI just because the QB put the ball in a place his WR could not get to.

 

In both those plays, Levi had perfect coverage, did NOT grab the receiver in any way.  In fact, in both cases, Claypool and Evans both mauled him.  That should NOT be at the fault of the defender that the QB did NOT get the ball to the proper spot of the WR.  Honestly, it should be offensive PI when the receiver mauls the defender on an under thrown pass.

 

If the QB puts the ball in place that is behind the WR, that is on the QB and should not penalize the DB.  Now if the DB grabs the receiver or commits any normal kind of PI, then the PI should be called as usual.  

 

Also, these judgement plays should be reviewable.  

 

No, I'm not missing the point. At all.

 

I just strongly disagree that all PI's should be 10 yard penalties. The rule as far as the distance of the penalty is fine.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Beast

[Bookie Man]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

 

The bottom line is a 10 yard penalty is incentive for the defense to interfere on long passes.

 

Is that too difficult for you to understand?

How do you feel about CFB PI rules? Is 15 yards incentive for the defense or no? Do you see DBs mugging and taking down WRs to avoid giving up big plays? Has it ruined the game? You can't just tell the refs to "be better". You think they're not trying their hardest? They're just not that good at what they do... 

[Beast]

3 minutes ago, ßookie_tech said:

How do you feel about CFB PI rules? Is 15 yards incentive for the defense or no? Do you see DBs mugging and taking down WRs to avoid giving up big plays? Has it ruined the game? You can't just tell the refs to "be better". You think they're not trying their hardest? They're just not that good at what they do... 

 

And you just can't implement a stupid 10 yard penalty for a penalty that negates what should have been a 50 yard play. 

 

You do realize NFL officiating is a part time job, don't you? The NFL could do a WHOLE LOT more to improve officiating on the field, starting with full time officials and younger officials.

[Bookie Man]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

And you just can't implement a stupid 10 yard penalty for a penalty that negates what should have been a 50 yard play. 

 

You do realize NFL officiating is a part time job, don't you? The NFL could do a WHOLE LOT more to improve officiating on the field, starting with full time officials and younger officials.

I asked how you felt about college PI rules. Genuinely asking. 

[Beast]

25 minutes ago, ßookie_tech said:

I asked how you felt about college PI rules. Genuinely asking. 

 

Obviously I do not like them.