OK, armchair analysts: How do we fix this offense?

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

33 minutes ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Bench Knox and replace with him with ____? No thanks. The one drop wasn't his fault btw. Just a good defensive play. 

One drop? how about multiple and make a ***** play when needed? How about not committing penalties at crucial times?

 

And, if you think its all on the offense, talk to Hyde and Poyer they agree. Our defense was plenty good enough last night giving up 4.8 yards/ carry with 10-11 men inside 5 yards? Giving up the biggest play of the game a 75 yard TD run?

 

I'd say this team needs people focusing on doing their job and not pointing fingers.

[BuffaloRebound]

Should’ve over-paid Gronk.  Josh needs a chain mover and big red zone threat.  Would’ve helped running game too.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

The best player on the team, is clearly the dude under center at the start of EVERY Offensive play. It falls from there.

 

* The worst Offensive players are EVERY RB, followed closely by a mediocre O Line!

 

* The TE is an enigma. We all know he’s no where near star talent, but if he could only make it to a relied upon Top 10 in the league. Sadly, when he is needed most- like last night, he fails! Multiple times.

 

* The best are the WRs, not All Pros, but decent.

 

* Doughball the schemer, seems to design his play calling with the Lowest Common Multiple in mind. Last night was a prime example of his embarrassing lack of strategy depth. It took him until Q4, to unleash his PASSING star QB- forced to when behind. Otherwise, I’m certain he would have stuck to that idiotic straight forward running strategy with the worst RB puzzle pieces.

 

And where were the design draws, end arounds,etc. for Allen? NOWHERE! On a weather challenged night!! Insert head banging symbol here.

 

And where is the Red Zone strategy? When the game was on the line, where were the End Zone plays? This is a consistent failure in this year’s losses. 
 

This then, causes McD to make poor choices, 

like kicking FGs, when TDs are required, especially in typhoon wind conditions! THAT was as stupid as his 4th Down challenge! 
 

EVERYBODY needs to smarten up or, unlike the Patsies, it’s on to 2023!
If they haven’t FUBARed it already.

[BuffaloRebound]

Tight End, Interior Linemen and a big physical RB.  These are not high dollar ticket items or positions you need to trade up in the draft for.  Spend $10m on a Tight End or interior OL in free agency.  Draft the others.  This is easily fixable in 1 off-season but requires a change in the offensive philosophy.  We have the QB.  And a legit #1 WR.  

[PromoTheRobot]

Fix it this year to get to the playoffs? Go back to being a passing team. Get more creative passing. Stop pretending to be a power run team.

Edited December 7, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Toyo321]

10 hours ago, Billznut said:

McD runs this organization. Not Beane. Do people in 2021 not actually realize this? Do you actually think Beane has the power to fire McD?  Anyone who thinks that is insane. McD runs this franchise until Terry decides he doesn’t. 

If you seriously think he running this organization after last nights embarrassment on MNF, at home on national tv,   OMG....  Wait until this team gets spanked by TB this coming week.  You will see who is truly at the helm with this team after this next weeks game. 

[Greg S]

10 hours ago, Billznut said:

McD runs this organization. Not Beane. Do people in 2021 not actually realize this? Do you actually think Beane has the power to fire McD?  Anyone who thinks that is insane. McD runs this franchise until Terry decides he doesn’t. 

 

From a few years ago I remember Terry saying both report to him. He said McDermott has final say on coaching the team but Beane has final say with putting the team together with the draft/FA. Obviously they have discussions and voice their opinions but I remember Terry saying this is how the organizational structure of the team will be.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Greg S

[goldenboy81]

If the bills were so worried about the wind,why didn't they run no huddle in the 2 quarters they had it

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Fix it this year to get to the playoffs? Go back to being a passing team. Get more creative passing. Stop pretending to be a power run team.

Howard and Jeremy were all over this in the AM show.  My counter point is look at the Pitt and Jacksonville game where they were pass first and unsuccessful because the defense found a way to defend the only pass offense.   My opinion is you need to be capable of both to be a great offense or you will be limited.  Then again, the current personnel don't seem capable of running consistently.  I do think you need something there.

[Nitro]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Fix it this year to get to the playoffs? Go back to being a passing team. Get more creative passing. Stop pretending to be a power run team.

With the wind to their backs in the first drive they start running the ball.  Then running between the tackles during the games.  NE has a really good run defense and Dabol's game plan was inadequate.  Not many pass routes over the middle.   Like a TE or RB doing a drag route.  Short and effective  Dabil has most routes between the hash marks and sidelines.    Great weather in Tampa Bay so air it out!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The league is going in reverse with more run heavy offenses going back in vogue…I have no problem with them being pass first but quite frankly we need a bigger back a mauling guard and more TE depth..as for now you might as well run Josh like crazy inside the 10 since Miss and Singletary just get no push 

I think a game breaking WR is near the top of our need list. 

[78thealltimegreat]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think a game breaking WR is near the top of our need list. 

Something I have heard and luckily this is another really good deep WR draft 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 minute ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Something I have heard and luckily this is another really good deep WR draft 

Especially if this Coaching staff stays reverent to always having Sanders (or another veteran FA WR) and Beasley on the field as the #2, #3 WR. 

 

We need better WRs for Josh Allen. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

2 hours ago, pocoboy said:

As far as fixing the offense - at this point Breida is the only guy who is finding the holes this pedestrian line is opening (when he hangs onto the ball). I think you need to give serious thought to trialing other backs (either off PS, another team's PS, or FA) at this point. Breida's ability to find those holes indicates it's not impossible, but you're forcing yourself to rely on two guys who are NOT getting the job done consistently.

 

Very much so. Maybe in the 2022 Draft they can go out and get 2-3 more defensive linemen to help with this problem...

You realize they drafted 3 OL last year, right?

[Virgil]

I'll take a shot.

 

1 - McD and Daboll have a talk about a new run scheme.  Not adjustments, an overall new scheme.  I think something similar to when McCoy was here makes the most sense, to where we RPO out of the shotgun and give the back multiple lanes to choose from.  If Daboll can't do this, then we send him on his way.

 

2 - Offensive Line:  Dawkins stays as he's a 10 mil cap hit.  Mitch Morse released saves 8 mil against the cap.  Feliciano released saves 4 mil.   Cody Ford release saves 1.5 mil.  That leaves Dawkins at LT, Daryl Williams at RG, Spencer Brown at RT.  That 13 mil goes towards a RG or Center.  FA one and draft the other.  Boet stays for depth.  Draft and sign more depth.

 

3 - Running back - None of our guys get paid, so there isn't a large benefit to releasing any of them.  Maybe trade Moss for a bag of rocks?  I'd be good signing a Melvin Gordon in FA.  This draft doesn't seem to have a homerun guy, so there's a lot of mixed opinions out there.

 

4 - Receivers - Let Sanders walk in FA and stick to the core 3 of Diggs and Davis on the outside with Beasley in the slot. Stop with the rotations.

 

[Captain Caveman]

We need to stop trying to force the run.  I'm not saying don't mix in runs to keep Defenses honest, and I understand that last night the circumstances called for more running than normal, but we are built to pass the ball, and IMO we won't be winning anything that matters until we embrace it. 

 

It's not really complicated, and I hope McDermott gets it now

 

 

[pocoboy]

3 hours ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

You realize they drafted 3 OL last year, right?

 

Any idea when they used top draft capital on one? Or do you just want to argue that a 3rd/5th/7th are a veritable OL haul?

[somnus00]

15 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think we’re too reverent to Beasley and Sanders.

 

I think those two have faded down the stretch here, and need Davis and McKenzie rotating in half the time and taking snaps away from them.

 

We have no presnap motion, no jet sweeps, no misdirection, no two backs in the backfield, we don’t roll the pocket.

 

We don’t seem to have a good hot read for blitzes. There is never a dump off available. 

 

We can’t call a slant to save our lives even with Diggs. 
 

We don’t run the ball straight forward, instead it’s always some delayed handoff or gimmick formation.

 

We have no NFL caliber Tight End outside of Knox. 
 

Allen presses a lot and he took a horrible sack in the red zone that cost the Bills. He had time tonight.

 

We don’t control the tempo at all, speed up or slow down. How are we getting plays off with 0-1 seconds left on the play clock?

 

Why is Zack Moss STILL GETTING red zone work? Why the hell is he still on this team? 

 

 

 

Absolutely nailed it, in my opinion.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

I'll take a shot.

 

1 - McD and Daboll have a talk about a new run scheme.  Not adjustments, an overall new scheme.  I think something similar to when McCoy was here makes the most sense, to where we RPO out of the shotgun and give the back multiple lanes to choose from.  If Daboll can't do this, then we send him on his way.

 

2 - Offensive Line:  Dawkins stays as he's a 10 mil cap hit.  Mitch Morse released saves 8 mil against the cap.  Feliciano released saves 4 mil.   Cody Ford release saves 1.5 mil.  That leaves Dawkins at LT, Daryl Williams at RG, Spencer Brown at RT.  That 13 mil goes towards a RG or Center.  FA one and draft the other.  Boet stays for depth.  Draft and sign more depth.

 

3 - Running back - None of our guys get paid, so there isn't a large benefit to releasing any of them.  Maybe trade Moss for a bag of rocks?  I'd be good signing a Melvin Gordon in FA.  This draft doesn't seem to have a homerun guy, so there's a lot of mixed opinions out there.

 

4 - Receivers - Let Sanders walk in FA and stick to the core 3 of Diggs and Davis on the outside with Beasley in the slot. Stop with the rotations.

 

I think the exact opposite. 

 

Push to try and get another game breaker. 

 

I don't want to see Beasley again late in the season fading. 

 

This team would be so much better with a Deebo Samuel type playmaker on the team. Maybe the Steelers would part with Chase Claypool. I agree that Davis being on the field more is good, but no way do I think it's smart to just copy and paste this group next year. 

 

I'd spend 2022 #1 on a WR. 

[ngbills]

Red zone is killing this team. The inability to adjust. The inability to get Diggs the ball. He is invisible in 90% of games now. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

30 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Red zone is killing this team. The inability to adjust. The inability to get Diggs the ball. He is invisible in 90% of games now. 

The Bills can't throw a slant. 

 

Steve Johnson made a career on slants. 

 

We can't do it in 2021. 

 

🤷‍♂️

[John from Riverside]

The problems cannot be fixed this season it will have to be addressed in the offseason.

 

Its not just a powerful exposive back that can catch and pass block with vision

 

Its not at least 2 more offensive linemen that want to dominate the player in front of them with a lot of nasty

 

Its both

[ngbills]

10 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills can't throw a slant. 

 

Steve Johnson made a career on slants. 

 

We can't do it in 2021. 

 

🤷‍♂️

And we have a Qb with a cannon that should be able to hit the tight window. Should be almost a gimme play. 

[cale]

I don't know why we don't promote Antonio Brown and let him carry the rock. I mean, he must be dropping balls all over in practice.

Also Todd Gurley is still out there I think. Time to bring him in.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, ngbills said:

And we have a Qb with a cannon that should be able to hit the tight window. Should be almost a gimme play. 

Nothing comes easy to this offense.

 

It’s all toe tapping, sideline diving, low throws from Allen as he’s running, it’s a miracle to get Diggs more than 6 passes a game.

 

 

[Paulus]

9 hours ago, Buftex said:

For better or worse, I don't think we will be seeing a lot more of McKenzie down the stretch.  He may not even be in the lineup.  There has to be something going on behind the scenes between he and McDermott.  If he starts benching everyone who turns the ball over, there won't be a lot of guys left to play.

 

Thanks. I believed the BS narrative, for a minute there. Yup, way deeper than just a fumble. 

8 hours ago, Just in Atlanta said:

Bench Knox and replace with him with ____? No thanks. The one drop wasn't his fault btw. Just a good defensive play. 

Replace him with Gabe Davis, IDC. ***** player off the field, good player on the field. And, Davis is a hellova blocker.

 

I mean, why was Ol' Iron Fingers even active for a game with weather like that?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Paulus

[Solomon Grundy]

28 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The problems cannot be fixed this season it will have to be addressed in the offseason.

 

Its not just a powerful exposive back that can catch and pass block with vision

 

Its not at least 2 more offensive linemen that want to dominate the player in front of them with a lot of nasty

 

Its both

Sounds like Trevor Penning and Breece Hall to me

12 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Nothing comes easy to this offense.

 

It’s all toe tapping, sideline diving, low throws from Allen as he’s running, it’s a miracle to get Diggs more than 6 passes a game.

 

 

Missing deep threat!! 

[Old Coot]

This is a difficult question but rests I think on the OL & that's not real repairable at this point in the season -- maybe better O line coaching?

 

Teams take away our long ball and force us to beat them underneath but that requires us to "matriculate" the ball downfield.  To do that the team needs consistently to excute and it doesn't do that.  It all starts with the OL: penalties, inability consistently to run the ball (which is mostly the fault of the OL -- RBs can't run through holes that aren't there).

 

Inability to run the ball  means the DL can focus on rushing the passer which leads to occasional breakdowns in pass protection and that causes our drives to fall short.

 

Lastly I raise a question about Josh's ball placement on his short passes to the flat.  He tends to throw behind the receiver who then must turn his back to the D to make the reception.  This gives the D more time to recover & limit the yardage.  Are QBs taught to throw behind the receiver on these plays or is this just Josh?

[Chaos]

16 hours ago, Just in Atlanta said:

No. 1 in least yards allowed. No. 1 for least points against. No. 4 in turnovers.

 

Despite the whining about this defense being soft, we just held the Patriots to one touchdown. That one TD was a run in which Poyer overcommitted to one side. This defense is actually historically good in a number of ways, with a penchant for getting pushed a bit by power run teams. 

We should have smacked the Patriots by 14 points easily. Mac Jones threw three passes. The Bills are simply way more talented. And, yet, we got whipped by a team we knew was going to run and we couldn't score in the redone save one time. 

The problem clearly is the offense. 

 

I watch Josh in the pocket and he amazes. Stands tall. Solid mechanics. Makes any throw. Escapability. Grit. Passion. Size. And physical toughness. He literally has it all. 

 

We have a tendency to romanticize last year. There were rough spots for sure. But most games this offense was a damn video game. It was historic. This was at least in part thanks to the now-maligned Daboll. 

 

This year, we have: A top 3 WR1 in Diggs - such an instinctive natural receiver. He's Randy Moss-esque. 

 

A top 3 slot receiver: Beasley just gets open. He catches everything. And he fights for the YAC. 

 

But, yes, watching McDaniels/Belichick call runs compared to us is night and day. And we have no rhythm, no push, we struggle in the red zone, and I have no faith we'll find any magic when we're down in the 4th. That last one is the biggest bummer. 

So, what's changed? And how can we improve this so we can at least make a Wild Card?

 

---

 

PS: Please no vapid "Fire Daboll / McD sucks" comments and please offer an actual fix. 

 

(EDIT)

"Pushed a bit"  lol

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

It seems to me to be relatively straightforward.  They're one dimensional.  The front office lost their gamble on the RBs stepping up this year,  and at the same time,  an average interior OL from last year has regressed significantly this season.  They keep trying to establish the run on first down and their inability to do so is putting Allen and the passing game in unfavorable down and distance situations.  Several first down runs by Moss were particularly ineffective last night and it took the Bills far too long to realize it.  

 

There's not much they can do about it for the rest of this season,  except to substitute short passes and screens for a running game. In the off-season,  they need to make major investments in the guards and RBs. 

The average poster on this site realized this problem weeks ago.  Should not even have been part of the game plan. 

9 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

This is a difficult question but rests I think on the OL & that's not real repairable at this point in the season -- maybe better O line coaching?

 

Teams take away our long ball and force us to beat them underneath but that requires us to "matriculate" the ball downfield.  To do that the team needs consistently to excute and it doesn't do that.  It all starts with the OL: penalties, inability consistently to run the ball (which is mostly the fault of the OL -- RBs can't run through holes that aren't there).

 

Inability to run the ball  means the DL can focus on rushing the passer which leads to occasional breakdowns in pass protection and that causes our drives to fall short.

 

Lastly I raise a question about Josh's ball placement on his short passes to the flat.  He tends to throw behind the receiver who then must turn his back to the D to make the reception.  This gives the D more time to recover & limit the yardage.  Are QBs taught to throw behind the receiver on these plays or is this just Josh?

Its just you. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

5 hours ago, pocoboy said:

 

Any idea when they used top draft capital on one? Or do you just want to argue that a 3rd/5th/7th are a veritable OL haul?

Well, they pulled teller out of the late rounds and brown seems good. Anderson was good enough to get picked off our ps. Cody Ford was a second rounder. He didn't work out, they don't all.  And yes, starting caliber IOL seem to be plentiful in the later rounds. Are you saying we need OT's too?

 

Given our timeline with a rookie qb, seems like veteran oline to start makes sense, don't you think?  Someone on this board mentioned they bumped into morse's dad and he said this was Mitches last year. So you have that going for you. To my untrained eye, Beane structured the veteran contracts to be able to get out of them and they seem to end when a lot of the big contract numbers from our core players kick in. 

[Just in Atlanta]

5 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

The Bills can't throw a slant. 

 

Steve Johnson made a career on slants. 

 

We can't do it in 2021. 

 

🤷‍♂️

One route on the route tree is not the reason we’re losing. I am 100% confident 

the Bills can throw a slant. My flag football QB can throw a slant. 

 

 

 

 

[Kelly's Heroes]

Keeping it simple

 

1 Get a OC, Daboll is horrid

2 Get an OC See #1

3 Get a OL coach with a resume, I think our guy cut his teeth in the Arena league or something.....

4 get better metrics for draft evaluation

 

 

Gonna be difficult with every dollar we have invested in Allen to build a line and Skill on offense..... We are gonna need to do it through the draft. 

 

Players to Retain: Allen, Davis, Knox, Dawkins, Brown, Morse,  Millano, Bass, Punter,  Poyer, White, Wallace, Johnson, Phillips

 

Player to move on from

-Diggs (cost vs production)

-Sanders ( was a waste)

-Oliver , too small for interior and too slow for end, last night on th ebig run he quit on the play.....See the play Judon got hurt on He got beat at the line but then made the tackle  9 yards down field. 

-Hughes ( tooo old no porduction)

-Hyde ( I just think we can spend the money somewhere else or on a more physical player...

-Singletary (not a starter)

-Moss ( no vision several  times he could have bounced it but never does)

-Breda? why was he brought in? Guy is out of football after this season no hands

-Ford BUST

-Felciano no good on the IR

-Star......under achiever

-Sweeney ( nice story but brings nothing to an NFL roster looks JV

-Neal ( does nothing for me) gets called for holding when put into action

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

10 hours ago, goldenboy81 said:

If the bills were so worried about the wind,why didn't they run no huddle in the 2 quarters they had it

Thank you.  I said the same thing standing in the stadium last night.  Maximize snaps with the wind.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

At this point I think I'd give up trying to run and just pass, but need to get Allen to buy into short 5 yard passes to force defense to come up, then can open up entire field.

 

Think that was part of the difference from last year, by year end, were mainly passing, but defenses hadn't figured out yet how to defend it.  Now they have, but 5 yard passes should work.

[Milanos Milano]

We need to get drop some Knox to practice with this for a few days. 
 

 

[ngbills]

1 hour ago, Just in Atlanta said:

One route on the route tree is not the reason we’re losing. I am 100% confident 

the Bills can throw a slant. My flag football QB can throw a slant. 

 

 

 

 

And my flag football wr can get open on that slant in man coverage with no help. 

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

Thank you.  I said the same thing standing in the stadium last night.  Maximize snaps with the wind.  

You must have heard me yelling from my house the same thing. 

 

[Scott7975]

As much as I criticize Daboll, the game plan was sound yesterday.  Players didn't execute.  Breida fumble.  Knox with 3 drops that killed drives.  Diggs not catching the TD (was a tough catch with the wind but still.) Moss not bouncing outside with a complete open field.  McD trying for a FG instead of a TD.  McD wasting two timeouts. Those reasons are the reasons we lost the game last night.

 

As for fixing the offense... nothing is going to fix it this year.  They have to play better.  McD has to stop messing around with benchings and rotations and just put the best players on the field.  

[Milanos Milano]

Draft Penning and Faalel. Start there. 

[Locomark]

Notice this year we don’t use motion, we don’t use any misdirection on our run plays, no more jet sweep motion, we don’t seem to pull our guards anymore which was successful over the last few years, and lastly we consistently stopped using our sneaky good inside players (Davis, Beasley,Mckenzie) because we think other teams have figured us out.
 

Just use your best talent and do what you do best and stop concerning yourself about how other teams will scheme you. Get out of our own way and let our players play!!   Our coaches are the problem.  The K gun was 25 plays run over and over to perfection. Just beat people with your talent at the skill positions! 
 

As an aside they have some awful players on this field right now at times in Tommy Sweeney and Cody Ford who both can’t block my grandma and should be sitting on the practice squad at most. Just use an OL as a blocking TE since Sweeney doesn’t run any patterns anyway. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Locomark