Estro Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) This guy checks all the boxes as a trade candidate: - young - inexpensive - has another cheap yr. left after this yr. - very talented @ a position of need - the Falcons stink & could perhaps be convinced into selling off assets. The reason a deal like this doesn't happen is if the Falcobs decide they are going to blow it up this offseason, as they should, they'd probably want to keep good, young OL around. It would take a big offer, perhaps a 2nd and 4th rounder, which I'm still not sure would be enough to entice the Falcons, but it'd be a big get for the Bills. Dawkins-Lindstrom-Morse-Williams-Brown & then in this coming years draft you go get Lindstroms younger brother, Alec, who's supposedly a pretty good C prospect. Lindstrom plays RG with the Falcons so you'd have to figure out who shifts Ober to LG between he and Williams. I realize that's not an easy transition, but it'd still be a big upgrade over what we currently have. Edited November 1, 2021 by Estro 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Estro said: This guy checks all the boxes as a trade candidate: - young - inexpensive - has another cheap yr. left after this yr. - very talented @ a position of need - the Falcons stink & could perhaps be convinced into selling off assets. The reason a deal like this doesn't happen is if the Falcobs decide they are going to blow it up this offseason, as they should, they'd probably want to keep good, young OL around. It would take a big offer, perhaps a 2nd and 4th rounder, which I'm still not sure would be enough to entice the Falcons, but it'd be a big get for the Bills. Dawkins-Lindstrom-Morse-Williams-Brown & then in this coming years draft you go get Lindstroms younger brother, Alec, who's supposedly a pretty good C prospect. Lindstrom plays RG with the Falcons so you'd have to figure out who shifts Ober to LG between he and Williams. I realize that's not an easy transition, but it'd still be a big upgrade over what we currently have. I like the thought process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Wouldn't hate it. They spent a 1st on him under an old regime but he is one of their best players. Not sure what it would take. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Good call. Anyone but Mongo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 @NewEra, @GunnerBill, @John from Riverside, what are your thoughts on Will Hernandez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said: @NewEra, @GunnerBill, @John from Riverside, what are your thoughts on Will Hernandez? A more affordable option I think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: @NewEra, @GunnerBill, @John from Riverside, what are your thoughts on Will Hernandez? Loved him coming out of UTEP. I remember the incognito comparisons and it showed on his college tape. Was big and nasty. that said, I can’t claim that I’ve watched any tape of him in the pros. I really have no clue how he’s been playing. I’m sure he’s better than Mongo. So are you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Why would Falcons do it if he is good and has one more year on rookie contract? Even if you are rebuilding these are the guys you keep, or? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Being a former first rounder, I don’t think we could get him for anything less than that and I don’t think Beane wants to allocate that type of resource towards a guard no matter how bad of an upgrade we need at that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said: Why would Falcons do it if he is good and has one more year on rookie contract? Does this matter? lol I even saw Quentin Nelson's name mentioned here in the last few days. Some people don't give much thought prior to throwing names out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Finkel Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, BTB said: Does this matter? lol I even saw Quentin Nelson's name mentioned here in the last few days. Some people don't give much thought prior to throwing names out there. He is a beast. He almost put Edmunds in the first row of the stands in the playoff game last year. He reminds me of a young Incognito with a much better head on his shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Talented , young inexpensive player … yep makes sense for the Bills to acquire him.. Not sure it makes sense for the other team to trade him though,,, 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Ray Finkel said: He is a beast. He almost put Edmunds in the first row of the stands in the playoff game last year. He reminds me of a young Incognito with a much better head on his shoulder. Yes he is. So why would the Colts trade him? Or is it a Jedi mind trick that Beane uses when talking with other GM's? 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 (edited) Bad teams are not trading young, talented starters on their rookie deals. A more realistic type of player to get is a veteran guy who can still play but is on the downside of his career. It makes sense for a bad team to move on from the veteran so they can give a younger guy a chance to play and develop, shed some salary (if not this year, then next), and obtain some assets. The Von Miller of guards. The Jerry Hughes of guards (if the Bills were a bad team). What guards fill this profile? I have no idea, but I suspect that many on this board do. Does Norwell fit that profile? Edited November 1, 2021 by msw2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 41 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: @NewEra, @GunnerBill, @John from Riverside, what are your thoughts on Will Hernandez? Liked him coming out but his best year in the league was as a rook. He is a FA after this year and the Giants are not bringing him back so they might take a late pick for him if they lose tonight and the season is dead. As a 7th that becomes a conditional 5th if he is still a Bill and plays 75% of the snaps in 2022 I would be for it. Shot to nothing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, msw2112 said: Bad teams are not trading young, talented starters on their rookie deals. A more realistic type of player to get is a veteran guy who can still play but is on the downside of his career. It makes sense for a bad team to move on from the veteran so they can give a younger guy a chance to play and develop, shed some salary (if not this year, then next), and obtain some assets. The Von Miller of guards. What guards fill this profile? I have no idea, but I suspect that many on this board do. Does Norwell fit that profile? I agree with what you are saying generally .. however OL is a bit different though to trading a Von Miller... The Jags have put their franchise on the back of their rookie QB.. he needs to be kept upright and playing. and developing.. so not sure why they would trade away their best OL for a third or fourth rounder as has been suggested here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, msw2112 said: Bad teams are not trading young, talented starters on their rookie deals. A more realistic type of player to get is a veteran guy who can still play but is on the downside of his career. It makes sense for a bad team to move on from the veteran so they can give a younger guy a chance to play and develop, shed some salary (if not this year, then next), and obtain some assets. The Von Miller of guards. The Jerry Hughes of guards (if the Bills were a bad team). What guards fill this profile? I have no idea, but I suspect that many on this board do. Does Norwell fit that profile? You are correct and yes, Norwell does. But the problem with those guys on good vet deals is the Bills fitting them under the cap this year. 1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said: I agree with what you are saying generally .. however OL is a bit different though to trading a Von Miller... The Jags have put their franchise on the back of their rookie QB.. he needs to be kept upright and playing. and developing.. so not sure why they would trade away their best OL for a third or fourth rounder as has been suggested here. You have heard of Trent Baalke, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 It's got to be hard to trade for talent on the O-line feels like there is a scarcity and that makes it difficult. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Not gonna happen…move on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Matter_What Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: You are correct and yes, Norwell does. But the problem with those guys on good vet deals is the Bills fitting them under the cap this year. You have heard of Trent Baalke, right? Can't we in theory do what Rams just did? Overpay on picks so Jags will eat all his salary this year so we only pay 700k like them? Not sure if it can be done with his contract and not sure what would his 2022 cap hit be (which is also relevant to us). 13.000.000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Most of the guys who might have been possible trade targets seem to line up on the right side. I would have inquired about AJ Cann but he now been injured. When I look at our deficient run blocking a guy who comes to mind is one Wyatt Teller. He plays now on the right side but before Cleveland he was always a left guard. What with Mayfield (and others) having to get paid and Chubb signing a new deal, Teller is not getting an extension,. He’s maybe the top run blocking guard in the league and his pass pro is much improved since he played here. He is going to be a free agent. Too bad the Browns have not totally crapped out yet. Also their remaining schedule is pretty soft. To me he should be a priority FA. I’d welcome him back. We maybe think of him as more a power/man type but the Browns actually run a zone scheme. I think he’d actually be fine next to Morse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbillyfootballcoach Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said: He is a beast. He almost put Edmunds in the first row of the stands in the playoff game last year. He reminds me of a young Incognito with a much better head on his shoulder. what happened to his other shoulder? war wound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 48 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said: Talented , young inexpensive player … yep makes sense for the Bills to acquire him.. Not sure it makes sense for the other team to trade him though,,, This sounds an awful lot like a “Highdea” just sayin, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Good call. Anyone but Mongo Believe me or don't - there are many many OG in the league who would be worse than Mongo. Some would be MUCH worse. 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 I would instantly trade a first round pick for Lindstrom. He fills both long and short term needs and might be that missing piece both this year and next year. But I just don't see the Falcons parting ways with a young highly productive guard with one more year plus a fifth year option left on his deal. I am going to assume the Falcons will be in the market to draft a QB next season. I think for any young QB you are going to want a good guard in his prime in place. I just don't see it happening even if the Bills were willing to give up a first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Believe me or don't - there are many many OG in the league who would be worse than Mongo. Some would be MUCH worse. Yeah, I was exaggerating obv….. I also said that members of OBD would be better. Doesn’t mean Mongo doesn’t stink 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 #14 overall pick who looks like the real deal and is under team control via 5th year option for the next 3 years including this one.... Why would they trade him for a 2nd round pick? They're going to draft a QB after this year and having a good O-Line in place is the #1 priority for a QB's development. They would never, ever, ever do this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, NewEra said: Yeah, I was exaggerating obv….. I also said that members of OBD would be better. Doesn’t mean Mongo doesn’t stink He doesn't stink. Not playing as well as you'd hope, certainly. But stink overstates it. 2 hours ago, No_Matter_What said: Can't we in theory do what Rams just did? Overpay on picks so Jags will eat all his salary this year so we only pay 700k like them? Not sure if it can be done with his contract and not sure what would his 2022 cap hit be (which is also relevant to us). 13.000.000? In theory, maybe. But Beane greatly values draft picks, and for good reason. And yes, Norwell would be $13M against the cap next year. Right now on next year's cap we have $15.5M available re: Spotrac. Not a good fit. The kind of target we'd consider is the type mentioned above, an upgrade from a team looking to rebuild with draft picks, most likely an older guy but also a guy in his middle years who's on a contract that's not onerous. A Daryl Williams type, though we were pretty lucky he was available coming off a bad year. Guys coming off bad years or injuries are more likely to be made available. Thing is, guys who are obviously excellent players aren't generally going to be available for terms that Beane would reasonably consider for a tem in our kind of cap shape this year and next. That's the problem. That kind of guy when he becomes available usually has a lot of suitors and so things get bid up, and he costs too on the cap as well. If we do get somebody I'd guess it will be a journeyman type, but hopefully on the high end of that group. Edited November 2, 2021 by Thurman#1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Is there any info that he’s available? Are we just picking random guys we think fit here cause their team isn’t great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Process Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Not gonna lie I have no idea who he is, but sounds like a guy that wouldn't be available based on all the things you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 hours ago, LEBills said: Being a former first rounder, I don’t think we could get him for anything less than that and I don’t think Beane wants to allocate that type of resource towards a guard no matter how bad of an upgrade we need at that position. They will be picking at no less than 30 th in the draft. What is wrong with a Guard at 30? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Estro said: This guy checks all the boxes as a trade candidate: - young - inexpensive - has another cheap yr. left after this yr. - very talented @ a position of need - the Falcons stink & could perhaps be convinced into selling off assets. The reason a deal like this doesn't happen is if the Falcobs decide they are going to blow it up this offseason, as they should, they'd probably want to keep good, young OL around. It would take a big offer, perhaps a 2nd and 4th rounder, which I'm still not sure would be enough to entice the Falcons, but it'd be a big get for the Bills. Dawkins-Lindstrom-Morse-Williams-Brown & then in this coming years draft you go get Lindstroms younger brother, Alec, who's supposedly a pretty good C prospect. Lindstrom plays RG with the Falcons so you'd have to figure out who shifts Ober to LG between he and Williams. I realize that's not an easy transition, but it'd still be a big upgrade over what we currently have. Great idea….Because teams love to give away their best young players at discount rates, especially just before the trade deadline…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Good, cheap, young players are building blocks not trade candidates. If we get anyone it will be an established vet on a team that's already out of it like Norwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEBills Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said: They will be picking at no less than 30 th in the draft. What is wrong with a Guard at 30? Nothing, but don’t think Beane would take a guard that high or trade a first for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Rigotz said: #14 overall pick who looks like the real deal and is under team control via 5th year option for the next 3 years including this one.... Why would they trade him for a 2nd round pick? They're going to draft a QB after this year and having a good O-Line in place is the #1 priority for a QB's development. They would never, ever, ever do this. The only way I could rationalize the Falcons trading him is if the Falcons want ammo to trade up for a QB. If the Bills offer a 2022 1st and 4th along with a 2023 2nd (which is a haul of picks that I would consider giving up) that would put the Falcons in a position to make a better offer to trade up. But even then is a late 1st, a mid-round pick and a future 2nd really that much in terms of trying to trade up to get a QB? I would absolutely be for the Bills giving up multiple premium picks for this player but I just don't see the Falcons wanting to give him up even for a haul. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: Is there any info that he’s available? Are we just picking random guys we think fit here cause their team isn’t great? First question is no, second question is a yes. We're coming up with ideas that might make sense and throwing em on out there for discussion on a fan board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: He doesn't stink. Not playing as well as you'd hope, certainly. But stink overstates it. In theory, maybe. But Beane greatly values draft picks, and for good reason. And yes, Norwell would be $13M against the cap next year. Right now on next year's cap we have $15.5M available re: Spotrac. Not a good fit. The kind of target we'd consider is the type mentioned above, an upgrade from a team looking to rebuild with draft picks, most likely an older guy but also a guy in his middle years who's on a contract that's not onerous. A Daryl Williams type, though we were pretty lucky he was available coming off a bad year. Guys coming off bad years or injuries are more likely to be made available. Thing is, guys who are obviously excellent players aren't generally going to be available for terms that Beane would reasonably consider for a tem in our kind of cap shape this year and next. That's the problem. That kind of guy when he becomes available usually has a lot of suitors and so things get bid up, and he costs too on the cap as well. If we do get somebody I'd guess it will be a journeyman type, but hopefully on the high end of that group. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion. He’s a bum and needs to be replaced before 17 gets hurt or we lose in the playoffs. He’s never been a starting caliber OG. He didn’t deserve to get paid what he did. Just like I said when we resigned him. And you said he was worth it. Are you happy that he’s one of our starting guards? Are you happy with his play? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreboding Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 7 hours ago, LEBills said: Being a former first rounder, I don’t think we could get him for anything less than that and I don’t think Beane wants to allocate that type of resource towards a guard no matter how bad of an upgrade we need at that position. I doubt the Falcons would part with him, I mean who wants to trade away good young OL? That said, what do you think the Bills will be drafting this next year? Dollars to donuts, it'll be a guard...if there is one with the value at their pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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