Boomers: Does Derrick Henry remind you of Cookie Gilchrist?

[John Gianelli]

I'm barely old enough to remember Cookie Gilchrist. I think Derrick Henry is cut from the same mold. 

 

[Big Turk]

Other than Henry is a lot faster?

[frostbitmic]

He reminds me of Earl Campbell ... He'll either run past you, around you or over you, and I believe he'd rather run over you.

[Nextmanup]

Jim Brown seems like a better analogy.

 

Size, power, speed.

 

Maybe Bo Jackson to an extent as well.  

  

[dwight in philly]

I dont believe Cookie would be clocked at 21 MPH when in full throttle with the ball.. But to dominate , i can see the comparison.. 

[Old Coot]

Lookie, Lookie here comes Derrick?

[Governor]

Eddie George.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Maybe Bo Jackson to an extent as well.  

Jim Brown is before my time, but from video, yes.

Bo Jackson was the closest. Earl Campbell was different - low to the ground, huge thighs, not those long strides.

It's easy to say Henry will take a beating and wear down young, but will he? He inflicts far more punishment than he takes. I'm gonna guess that by the time he hangs it up we're looking at a Hall of Famer.

[Sweats]

King is the 2nd coming of Jim Brown.....aggressive with monster break away speed.

[oldmanfan]

Yeah he does a little.  Cookie had the size and speed like Henry.. as did Jim Brown. Henry reminds me of both of them, and a little like Campbell.  I think he’s a lock for the Hall.

Edited October 20, 2021 by oldmanfan

[John Gianelli]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Other than Henry is a lot faster?

Listen to some of the testimonials on YouTube. Many former players say he was the best, or one of the best, football players they'd ever seen. They talk about his combination of size and speed. Derrick Henry's times for the 40 at the combine were 4.52 and 4.54. Cookie ran the 40 in 4.6. Henry may be faster, but not a lot faster.

[BearNorth]

Cookie was 6-2 at least 250, never played college ball.  Saw him run for 243 yards [5 TD's] in the Rockpile in 1963 on muddy field with puddles.  Cookie was also the placekicker at times, and played two ways in Canada.  He was bigger than most of the D-Lineman of that era. Jim Brown was a gifted multi-sport athlete, Football, basketball, lacrosse, track & field.  Played hoops, lax and ran track at 'cuse. Finished 5th in the 1955 AAU decathlon.  Actually had to change the rules in Lacrosse because of him, when he pinned the ball to his chest, impossible to get it away from him.

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by BearNorth

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Sweats said:

King is the 2nd coming of Jim Brown.....aggressive with monster break away speed.

Exactly.  He runs very much the same way.  I've noticed it for years.  Even down to being pretty emotionless as he plays.  The stiff arm - Brown was masterful. It's all there. 

[BearNorth]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Exactly.  He runs very much the same way.  I've noticed it for years.  Even down to being pretty emotionless as he plays.  The stiff arm - Brown was masterful. It's all there. 

Belichick [Cleveland native] told Sports Illustrated that Brown ran a 4.5 40 in pads from a 3 point, [not moving] stance in 1958.  Brown was also a great receiver out of the backfield on swings and screens.  Cleveland was the Buffalo TV team for the NFL.

Edited October 20, 2021 by BearNorth

[transplantbillsfan]

My Dad says Jim Brown

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, John Gianelli said:

Listen to some of the testimonials on YouTube. Many former players say he was the best, or one of the best, football players they'd ever seen. They talk about his combination of size and speed. Derrick Henry's times for the 40 at the combine were 4.52 and 4.54. Cookie ran the 40 in 4.6. Henry may be faster, but not a lot faster.

 

Henry certainly was a lot faster than his combine time when he set the highest speed this year at 21.8 MPH on that long TD run.

[Utah John]

Cookie's career was messed up, missing out on college ball because he was tricked into signing a semi-pro baseball contract.  With better coaching and today's training, he would have been just as good as Henry and even (forgive me my sins) Jim Brown.  But he was what he was.  And he didn't play that long after the Bills traded him to Denver.  

Edited October 20, 2021 by Utah John

[DeltaDigital]

Now imagine our team had a back 1/2 as good as this and forced teams to respect the run? Wouldn't matter since our O line couldn't run block a toddler. 

[Greg S]

He reminds me of Earl Campbell with the way he runs over people and punishes them

[BearNorth]

On the 76 yard run, he was hit once from the side, by a DB engaged/[?held?] by a blocker.

On the 3 yard run Obada whiffed at the 2. [Should he even be playing pff grade is 36.8]

On the 13 yard run it was blocked well on the LOS and Hyde tried to tackle from the side after Henry was rolling and was laughably ineffective.

 

No way to stop this guy unless you are squared to him, and prepared to be punished.

[tomur67]

i'd say Jim Brown

[LABILLBACKER]

On 10/20/2021 at 6:46 AM, DeltaDigital said:

Now imagine our team had a back 1/2 as good as this and forced teams to respect the run? Wouldn't matter since our O line couldn't run block a toddler. 

We'll be revamping the OL this off season.

[US Egg]

Can throw in the 1st three John Brockington seasons into the Henry amalgamation assessments here.

[GunnerBill]

These threads just remind me that some of you guys old....

[Watkins101]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:16 PM, The Frankish Reich said:

Jim Brown is before my time, but from video, yes.

Bo Jackson was the closest. Earl Campbell was different - low to the ground, huge thighs, not those long strides.

It's easy to say Henry will take a beating and wear down young, but will he? He inflicts far more punishment than he takes. I'm gonna guess that by the time he hangs it up we're looking at a Hall of Famer.

He almost certainly will be a hell of famer. Back to back (pacing for his 3rd in a row) 2000 yard seasons, with the most productive 40 game stretch from any running back in NFL history. This is his 6th season and he’s nearing 7000 yards, barring injury will likely break 8000 this season. Even if he were to fall off and be an average of half as productive for the next 5 seasons, he would be in the top 10 in  NFL history.

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Watkins101 said:

He almost certainly will be a hell of famer. Back to back (pacing for his 3rd in a row) 2000 yard seasons, with the most productive 40 game stretch from any running back in NFL history. This is his 6th season and he’s nearing 7000 yards, barring injury will likely break 8000 this season. Even if he were to fall off and be an average of half as productive for the next 5 seasons, he would be in the top 10 in  NFL history.

 

He hasn't had back to back 2,000 yard seasons. He had 1,500 yards in 2019. Not that I am in any way taking from his greatness just making the correction. 

 

What is fascinating about Henry is in the modern NFL the pattern with running backs is draft them, ride them immediately, use up their first contract and if you extend them the first couple of years of their extension and then toss them. Henry didn't break 1,000 hards until year 4 and was used in a timeshare before that. Yet years 4,5,6 and at this stage 7 have been pretty monstrous years. It isn't the "normal" way of things these days.

[foreboding]

Jim Brown.

[Shaw66]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't had back to back 2,000 yard seasons. He had 1,500 yards in 2019. Not that I am in any way taking from his greatness just making the correction. 

 

What is fascinating about Henry is in the modern NFL the pattern with running backs is draft them, ride them immediately, use up their first contract and if you extend them the first couple of years of their extension and then toss them. Henry didn't break 1,000 hards until year 4 and was used in a timeshare before that. Yet years 4,5,6 and at this stage 7 have been pretty monstrous years. It isn't the "normal" way of things these days.

Yes, we're old.  Not responding to you, but I will say that I've seen them all since Brown, and Brown is absolutely the correct comparison in terms of running style.  Exactly the same style.  Pound straight ahead into the hole and make the slightest of moves necessary to get to daylight, breaking arm tackles along the way.  Absolutely devastating stiff arm.  The only season Brown did not win the rushing title was when he played the entire season with a broken wrist, carried the ball in his good hand and couldn't stiff arm with the bad one.  Blistering straight ahead speed.  Plus tremendous power.   

 

Not Campbell, who was incredible and had the speed.  But Campbell didn't feint past tacklers like Brown and Henry, he just bulldozed them.  Dickerson was closer to being like Brown and Henry, and was better than they were in the open field, but wasn't as good as just a great back for as long as Brown.  Simpson, Sanders, Sayers were the most spectacular ball carriers ever in terms of pure entertainment value, but they weren't the same kind of workhorse backs that Brown and Henry were.   Brown then and Henry now, if your game plan every week is get him the ball 30 times, it's a good game plan.   

 

One difference between Brown and Henry is that back then, it was a running game, and Brown gave the Browns the best running attack, year after year.  He was just so dominant.  Henry is so good that even though it's no longer a running game in the NFL, the Titans can play throwback style football and make it work.   He's devastatingly good.  

 

To your point, I'd never really thought about it, and it's very interesting.  When he was coming out of Alabama, few people were raving about him.  He looked like a guy with great attitude who benefitted from playing on a great team.   Nobody was looking at him as the next truly great running back.  He was picked 45th!  (Everyone knew Brown was great.   He was picked 7th, I think, and probably would have gone earlier if he weren't Black.   It was the 50s, and NFL teams were just starting to add Black players to their rosters.)  And then, as you say, he didn't explode on the league like the typical superstar running backs.  (Brown was great as a rookie, broke the single season rushing record in his second season.  Dickerson, Sanders, Sayers all flashed almost immediately.  And, as you say, more recently, RBs star early and then fade; it's a consistent pattern.)  

 

I was a huge Jim Brown fan when I was a kid, and I've become a Henry fan.   One thing I liked about Brown was his stoicism.   He just carried the ball and went back to the huddle.   Players were less demonstrative in those days, but even by comparison in those days, he seemed to be emotionless on the field.  Henry plays like that too.   Make the run, get tackled, get up, go back to the huddle.  

 

It's almost impossible for Henry to catch Brown in terms of career dominance in the NFL, because of Henry's slow start the first few years.   Brown played nine seasons, led the league in rushing eight times (as I said, he played the whole season with a broken wrist the one season he didn't win the title).   But if youngsters like you want to know what Jim Brown was like, replay in your head Derrick Henry against the Bills on Monday night, and then imagine him doing the same thing every game for nine straight seasons.   That was Jim Brown.   (EVERY game?   Well, no, he got stopped once in a while.   But you never were surprised when he played like Henry did the other night.  Never.   You were surprised when he didn't.)

 

When Franco Harris was closing in on Brown's career rushing record, Brown was 45.  He said that if he came out of retirement, he would be better than Harris.   Brown was so good that even though he'd been out of the game for 13 years, lots of people seriously argued the point.  

  

[BearNorth]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I was a huge Jim Brown fan when I was a kid, ...   One thing I liked about Brown was his stoicism.   He just carried the ball and went back to the huddle.   Players were less demonstrative in those days, but even by comparison in those days, he seemed to be emotionless on the field.     

Brown famously would always get up slowly from the pile, same routine every time, never wanted the D to know if they had hurt him. “Make sure when anyone tackles you he remembers how much it hurts.”

[Solomon Grundy]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:24 PM, John Gianelli said:

Listen to some of the testimonials on YouTube. Many former players say he was the best, or one of the best, football players they'd ever seen. They talk about his combination of size and speed. Derrick Henry's times for the 40 at the combine were 4.52 and 4.54. Cookie ran the 40 in 4.6. Henry may be faster, but not a lot faster.

Cookie was 20 lbs heavier too

[ColoradoBills]

Only if Henry starts selling Christmas trees in front of the stadium.

[cba fan]

Henry runs like Forrest Gump only faster yet. lol.

 

Cookie runs more right left looping and less upright and looks more athletic, not stiff like Henry. Henry more straight ahead upright.

Edited October 23, 2021 by cba fan

[muppy]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:39 PM, frostbitmic said:

He reminds me of Earl Campbell ... He'll either run past you, around you or over you, and I believe he'd rather run over you.

Derrick Henry is a force of football nature. I have heard he speak off the field and he appears a super bright chill  well spoken guy.  Tough as nails. Someone tell me just who IS stopping derrick henry lately?

 

lol

 

m 

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

These threads just remind me that some of you guys old....

thats aged to perfection to you pal...

 

LOL

 

🙂 m

[cba fan]

5 minutes ago, Muppy said:

Derrick Henry is a force of football nature. I have heard he speak off the field and he appears a super bright chill  well spoken guy.  Tough as nails. Someone tell me just who IS stopping derrick henry lately?

 

lol

 

m 

well. Bills bottled actually bottled him up pretty good. Only 67 yds on 19 carries.(3.52 per carry)

Until you add the bogus 76 yard run with three holding calls Titans committed.              

[hondo in seattle]

A few random thoughts...

 

About Henry being compared to Brown...  Jim Brown was more elusive than maybe people remember or know.  More fluid and elusive than Henry.

 

About Henry being faster than Cookie...   Probably so.  But Cookie wasn't slow for a guy his size.  

 

I don't recall all the details but my favorite Cookie story goes something like this:  It's early in a game against the Boston Patriots.  Cookie runs around the right tackle to the Patriot side of the field, and finds a Patriot LB squaring off against him.  Cookie was a violent runner and hard to arm-tackle.   So the smart thing to do would be to break to the inside or outside and force the guy to try to tackle Cookie with his arms. 

 

Of course, that's not what Cookie does.  Instead he heads straight into the guy, picks him up, and slams him down, knocking him unconscious.  Then Cookie trips over his limp body, ending the play. 

 

The Patsies on the sideline are shocked at what they just witnessed a few feet in front of them.  Normal running backs don't pick up and body slam defenders.  But Cookie wasn't normal.  

 

Cookie defiantly eyes the Patriot sideline for a moment then angrily strides up to them, "Which one of you motherf*ck*rs is next!?!"  No Patriot player speaks up.  

The Patsies wanted nothing to do with this maniac and the Bills went on to win against a disheartened Patriot squad.  

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[hondo in seattle]

Oh, one more thought.  Jim Brown and Cookie played against defenses designed to stop the run.  Stout defenses with tough-as-nails linebackers like Dick Butkus and Sam Huff.

 

Henry plays against defenses that typically play nickel or dime and are manned with agile LBers who are good in coverage and quick DEs who are better at pressuring QBs than smothering RBs.  It's a different era.  It's easier for runners these days, especially for power runners.

 

Brown, Cookie, Earl Campbell, and some of the other old-time greats would run all over today's defenses.    

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[Dr. Who]

Way before my time, of course, but if you want to pair tough runner with perfect names for the golden age of football, its hard to beat Bronko Nagurski and Cookie.

[The Frankish Reich]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He hasn't had back to back 2,000 yard seasons. He had 1,500 yards in 2019. Not that I am in any way taking from his greatness just making the correction. 

 

What is fascinating about Henry is in the modern NFL the pattern with running backs is draft them, ride them immediately, use up their first contract and if you extend them the first couple of years of their extension and then toss them. Henry didn't break 1,000 hards until year 4 and was used in a timeshare before that. Yet years 4,5,6 and at this stage 7 have been pretty monstrous years. It isn't the "normal" way of things these days.

Right. And RBs peak really early in the modern era and tend to wear down fast. Which is the only reason I wonder whether he'll make it to HOF numbers.

[billsfan89]

He reminds me of Adrian Peterson but bigger with less receiving skill. Both were angry downhill runners with breakaway speed and rather large bodies. AP was a bit smaller at 6 foot 2 inches tall and weighing in at 217 pounds. Henry is listed at 6 foot 3 247 pounds about 30 pounds heavier and while he is an inch taller that inch isn't accounting for 30 pounds. 

 

Although AP was a much better receiver even if Henry isn't bad at catching passes. I would give Henry the edge in terms of running the ball between the tackles. That's my comparison.

[Mr. WEO]

Can’t compare.  The players Gilchrist faced every game weren’t on par with the athletes today:  groomed from childhood through the best college programs to the modern NFL with the best  training/diet/equipment along the way.