Nextmanup Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 8:22 PM, PromoTheRobot said: Tailgating will not be eliminated. But you'll have other options. Imagine having nice hotels located next door for those of us coming from out of town. It's kind of weird, isn't it? Trying to teach WNYers how folks behave outside of the WNY bubble... Like why would you want commerce built up around the stadium experience??? LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 City still wants in on a downtown stadium... Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galept Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, BillStime said: City still wants in on a downtown stadium... Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown Out of sheer ugliness alone I cannot support this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, galept said: Out of sheer ugliness alone I cannot support this. It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof. But who's gonna clean the seagull poop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, BillStime said: City still wants in on a downtown stadium... Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? While I no longer live in WNY anymore I’m not sure I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 10:48 AM, PromoTheRobot said: So walking over a bridge is unacceptable? How do people who park on California survive the death march to Southwestern Blvd, with the creek in the way? Thanks Promo. The image of the "death march" in my minds eye is too funny. On 10/8/2021 at 1:51 PM, Buffalo716 said: No but like I said it's not going to do much for the bar economy either because we're smart drinkers It's a select crowd in Buffalo that party downtown... Buffalonians will absolutely get drunk at home and go to the game rather than bar hop downtown before the game I know 716 you are not a supporter of the downtown site and have used this no "benefit to the local economy" countless times. Having fans who come to a teams away game OR Bills fans flying in for the game is a significant number that the downtown would better serve than OP site. That's just a fact. As others have said many "better off financially" fans would skip tailgating. I know I would. I would expect the amount of people not tailgating would increase exponentially as the weather got worse. One other thing to consider is the actual building of the stadium. Contractors and construction crews are not all from the area and they will need hotels and restaurants when they stay in Buffalo. They will be much better served downtown than in OP. I still think the stadium (if built downtown) needs to be in the Father Conway Park across the river from Riverworks and the parking lots in the current abandoned Perry Projects RIGHT NEXT to the 190. 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? While I no longer live in WNY anymore I’m not sure I would. That's where the parking lots should be. Stadium kitty corner in the park. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 48 minutes ago, QCity said: It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it. My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red hots Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 49 minutes ago, QCity said: It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it. Why build a new stadium at all then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 18 minutes ago, red hots said: Why build a new stadium at all then? Because Roger says we need to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 2 hours ago, BobbyC81 said: Because Roger says we need to. So do I. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Yup. If they want to keep playing NFL games in Buffalo, a new stadium is needed. The Ralph is nearing the end. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either. More downtown than Orchard Park... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 The most important thing is to make this as cost-effective as possible. If it's true that stadiums don't add anything at all, there is no need for it to be anywhere specific,so might as well put it in the cheapest place possible. Again combining it with UB, who also needs a new stadium, would be the smartest thing to do all around, with the only question being whether they have the infrastructure, or the ability to create it reasonably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof. What you're seeing in the picture is ETFE plastic. It's transparent, but can be lit up with designs (such as the Zubaz design in the picture) The new LA stadium and Vikings stadium use this. Apparently, it requires very little maintenance and a "low friction coefficient" so that seagull poop will wash off easily: https://www.archpaper.com/2017/03/etfe-stadiums/ The Zubaz thing is funny to me because I jokingly predicted this in a previous stadium thread. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/233119-edit-total-cost-to-taxpayers-bills-select-sports-firm-to-represent-ownership-in-building-new-open-air-stadium-in-op-targeted-for-2025/?do=findComment&comment=7250597 Edited October 20, 2021 by LeGOATski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switz1610 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, QCity said: It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it. Have you actually read the book or just the amazon teaser? All of the case study cities listed have built or renovated (Chicago) major stadiums in their downtown area since the book was published over 20 years ago. Edited October 20, 2021 by switz1610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, switz1610 said: Have you actually read the book or just the amazon teaser? All of the case study cities listed have built or renovated (Chicago) major stadiums in their downtown area since the book was published over 20 years ago. I've read multiple studies on new stadiums and the impact on their economy The majority of studies done by respectable colleges or institutions all say there's a negligible impact on the economy You build it because you want a football team.. not because you want to revitalize the city Edited October 20, 2021 by Buffalo716 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 6:34 PM, K-9 said: On 10/7/2021 at 6:21 PM, That's No Moon said: Dunkirk Don is right about one thing. Follow the money. The period of Dunkirk Don was one of the more thrilling and stupid times on TBD. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either. I’ve been a downtown stadium advocate, but admittedly don’t know a lot about what land is available in downtown Buffalo these days. If that’s as good as it gets, no thanks. Nothing looks remotely appealing about that location. It looks like a stadium thrown in a residential city neighborhood, not somewhere I want to hang out for fun. I’ve always known tailgating would suffer downtown, but most NFL downtown stadiums have somewhat decent parking situations/lots. This place has two tiny parking garages in the picture. Chicago and Cleveland for example at least have substantial amounts of ground level parking lots at their stadiums. How far is parking? Would it be like the Carrier Dome in Syracuse where you walk three miles? Edited October 20, 2021 by SirAndrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 unsurprisingly, looks like they’re hell-bent on screwing this up. At least the good news is we would get a couple extra years at the Ralph most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvlevydraftdaygenius Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 8:22 PM, PromoTheRobot said: Tailgating will not be eliminated. But you'll have other options. Imagine having nice hotels located next door for those of us coming from out of town. It just helps the local economy and puts nice restaurant next store gives the city of Buffalo to really make the stadium the center part of the city and if they put a retractable dome on it not for bills games the dome stays open for that but to maybe host college football games or maybe get a super bowl there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Politics tryin to ruin the tailgating experience... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I've read multiple studies on new stadiums and the impact on their economy The majority of studies done by respectable colleges or institutions all say there's a negligible impact on the economy You build it because you want a football team.. not because you want to revitalize the city What does the studies say about multi purpose complexes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 That area they're proposing to build looks like the projects in the Candyman movie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 10/19/2021 at 5:52 PM, QCity said: It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material: Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it. Close enough On 10/19/2021 at 5:24 PM, SoCal Deek said: Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? While I no longer live in WNY anymore I’m not sure I would. Close enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) On 10/8/2021 at 3:03 PM, Einstein said: Im not saying it’s like the end of the world or anything, but it’s definitely not preferable. Especially when you have a perfectly suitable spot in OP. Does the Michigan Ave bridge even have a sidewalk? Or are you envisioning people walking in the road? Maybe it does, I can’t remember. The downtown idea seems like something out-of-towners would love but many local season ticket holders would not think is ideal. I’d love to see a poll to see if my theory is correct or just nonsense. If it must be moved, I’d much prefer Niagara Falls than downtown. I don’t want NF either though. . The downtown model looks similar to this Money from federal infrastructure bill would be huge along with state money/Buffalo Billion Edited October 21, 2021 by Solomon Grundy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StHustle Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 12 hours ago, LeGOATski said: What you're seeing in the picture is ETFE plastic. It's transparent, but can be lit up with designs (such as the Zubaz design in the picture) The new LA stadium and Vikings stadium use this. Apparently, it requires very little maintenance and a "low friction coefficient" so that seagull poop will wash off easily: https://www.archpaper.com/2017/03/etfe-stadiums/ The Zubaz thing is funny to me because I jokingly predicted this in a previous stadium thread. https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/233119-edit-total-cost-to-taxpayers-bills-select-sports-firm-to-represent-ownership-in-building-new-open-air-stadium-in-op-targeted-for-2025/?do=findComment&comment=7250597 They coulda got the idea from you believe it or not...people don't realize who frequents these boards. For example for some reason most people don't think players come here...I know for a fact multiple Bills players come here to see how fans view them. Yes they care! Also plenty family and friends do as well and share positive threads and players will read it. I think it's moreso like that nowadays with social media and all that. Some players just like to read fan feedback. Media members def check here often to Guage the temperature of Bills fans and what the common concerns are. Believe it or not someone involved in the mock up drawing could have easily come here and read through that thread to get a feel of what the fans want and think. If you don't believe that's part of research for a project this big you're way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, StHustle said: They coulda got the idea from you believe it or not...people don't realize who frequents these boards. For example for some reason most people don't think players come here...I know for a fact multiple Bills players come here to see how fans view them. Yes they care! Also plenty family and friends do as well and share positive threads and players will read it. I think it's moreso like that nowadays with social media and all that. Some players just like to read fan feedback. Media members def check here often to Guage the temperature of Bills fans and what the common concerns are. Believe it or not someone involved in the mock up drawing could have easily come here and read through that thread to get a feel of what the fans want and think. If you don't believe that's part of research for a project this big you're way off. Well, I'm definitely taking credit for it now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 6:30 PM, SirAndrew said: I’ve been a downtown stadium advocate, but admittedly don’t know a lot about what land is available in downtown Buffalo these days. If that’s as good as it gets, no thanks. Nothing looks remotely appealing about that location. It looks like a stadium thrown in a residential city neighborhood, not somewhere I want to hang out for fun. I’ve always known tailgating would suffer downtown, but most NFL downtown stadiums have somewhat decent parking situations/lots. This place has two tiny parking garages in the picture. Chicago and Cleveland for example at least have substantial amounts of ground level parking lots at their stadiums. How far is parking? Would it be like the Carrier Dome in Syracuse where you walk three miles? You may not know this but if they put it there it would allow buffalo to reclaim a wasteland part of the city and start growing there. If you build it they will come. So will the things you're looking for. The nimby crowd will likely react badly but the politico's will drool over the opportunity to spend our money. They're whores. It's what they do. 22 hours ago, LeGOATski said: That area they're proposing to build looks like the projects in the Candyman movie. Perhaps you don't know what it looks like now. Vacant, dilapidated project building after project building. They can raze all that and recover the neighborhood and that would be a massive win for Buffalo. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0017 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 21 hours ago, StHustle said: They coulda got the idea from you believe it or not...people don't realize who frequents these boards. For example for some reason most people don't think players come here...I know for a fact multiple Bills players come here to see how fans view them. Yes they care! Also plenty family and friends do as well and share positive threads and players will read it. I think it's moreso like that nowadays with social media and all that. Some players just like to read fan feedback. Media members def check here often to Guage the temperature of Bills fans and what the common concerns are. Believe it or not someone involved in the mock up drawing could have easily come here and read through that thread to get a feel of what the fans want and think. If you don't believe that's part of research for a project this big you're way off. Why didn’t we get Ertz then?!? 😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) On 10/7/2021 at 8:22 PM, PromoTheRobot said: Tailgating will not be eliminated. But you'll have other options. Imagine having nice hotels located next door for those of us coming from out of town. I was at the Nashville game last weekend. At first I stayed out by Vanderbilt because that was the area I was most familiar with and wanted to hit some of my favorite spots (and it was cheaper). For game day, however, I moved into town so it would be an easy walk to bars and the stadium. That was VERY important to me. When I go to Bills home games I generally stay in Williamsville near the bars and restaurants along Main St where I grew up. If I could, I would move downtown for game days. It’s great to not have to worry about driving anywhere. IF the Bills stadium ends up downtown, that would be my plan. I’d be just fine with that. That would be better for me than having to worry about drinking, driving and parking. As I’ve said a thousand times, I’m happy as long as they remain in WNY. I love the Ralph in OP and I love the tailgates. I’m confident I’d also love the experience downtown, if that’s where it ends up. Be flexible in life people, and look for the positives. . Edited October 22, 2021 by Augie 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Augie said: I was at the Nashville game last weekend. At first I stayed out by Vanderbilt because that was the area I was most familiar with and wanted to hit some of my favorite spots (and it was cheaper). For game day, however, I moved into town so it would be an easy walk to bars and the stadium. That was VERY important to me. When I go to Bills home games I generally stay in Williamsville near the bars and restaurants along Main St where I grew up. If I could, I would move downtown for game days. It’s great to not have to worry about driving anywhere. IF the Bills stadium ends up downtown, that would be my plan. I’d be just fine with that. That would be better for me than having to worry about drinking, driving and parking. As I’ve said a thousand times, I’m happy as long as they remain in WNY. I love the Ralph in OP and I love the tailgates. I’m confident I’d also love the experience downtown, if that where it ends up. Be flexible in life people, and look for the positives. People hate change. You look at Camden Yards in Baltimore and think who would be against something like that? I lived in Baltimore when Camden Yards was first proposed and there was a lot of opposition. There was newspaper columnist, John Steadman, who made it his mission to kill the idea. They all swore Memorial Stadium was just fine. Located in the middle of a residential neighborhood on 33rd St, it had all the charm of the ol' Rockpile in Buffalo. Even worse, parking was so scarce they would park cars bumper-to-bumper and door-to-door. If your car was in the middle somewhere you were trapped until a a lane to the street opened. And people wanted to preserve that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 33 minutes ago, beerme1 said: Perhaps you don't know what it looks like now. Vacant, dilapidated project building after project building. They can raze all that and recover the neighborhood and that would be a massive win for Buffalo. I looked at the Google Street view, which is relatively recent. The projects in Candyman look the same. What does "recover the neighborhood" mean? There wouldn't be a neighborhood if the plopped a stadium on top of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: People hate change. You look at Camden Yards in Baltimore and think who would be against something like that? I lived in Baltimore when Camden Yards was first proposed and there was a lot of opposition. There was newspaper columnist, John Steadman, who made it his mission to kill the idea. They all swore Memorial Stadium was just fine. Located in the middle of a residential neighborhood on 33rd St, it had all the charm of the ol' Rockpile in Buffalo. Even worse, parking was so scarce they would park cars bumper-to-bumper and door-to-door. If your car was in the middle somewhere you were trapped until a a lane to the street opened. And people wanted to preserve that. So true! Most of the successful people I know thrive on change, because it puts them ahead of the herd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Augie said: So true! Most of the successful people I know thrive on change, because it puts them ahead of the herd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: I looked at the Google Street view, which is relatively recent. The projects in Candyman look the same. What does "recover the neighborhood" mean? There wouldn't be a neighborhood if the plopped a stadium on top of it. By razing all the abandoned project buildings they would recover the neighborhood from what it is. There would be progress to build on around the stadium and the whole neighborhood will change from the nasty dangerous wasteland it is today. The neighborhood would change and grow around the stadium. These projects are vacant and dangerous and the city will likely leave it like forever unless a project like a stadium comes along. Time to act I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 7:26 PM, Beast said: What's the big facination with downtown? What does Buffalo have that will make the gameday experience better than what we already have in Orchard Park? Indy tore down the dome, added to the convention center and built a new stadium close b in a warehouse district. The area is booming. Underused properties were bought up. Hotels put in, restaurants opened and bars and night life blossomed. It is worth the look for Buffalo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/7/2021 at 7:26 PM, Beast said: What's the big facination with downtown? What does Buffalo have that will make the gameday experience better than what we already have in Orchard Park? After Nashville last weekend, I have to say I realized how much I LOVED the option of hotels and bars in walking distance. I had been to games there multiple times, but this thread reminds me of how different it could be. Not saying better or worse, just different. I don’t like the whole drinking, driving and parking aspect that requires planning for games in remote areas. Nothing is perfect, but Nashville handled it with ease with packed hotels and bars downtown. It was a blast, once again! People often fear change, but change can be good. Games in OP are GREAT, but there are other types of experiences that can also be great. People should be open minded, in all ways. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 On 10/20/2021 at 11:25 AM, Buffalo716 said: I've read multiple studies on new stadiums and the impact on their economy The majority of studies done by respectable colleges or institutions all say there's a negligible impact on the economy You build it because you want a football team.. not because you want to revitalize the city Each city is different. Look at Petco Park’s impact on the Gaslamp District of San Diego. Gamechanger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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