red hots

I'm not worried just now, but say by the time the superbowl is over theres no deal I might be a bit more concerned.

Stadiums now are not the stadiums of old built around surface parking lots and expressways. This isn't the 1970s. Green Bay, Cincinnati, St Louis, Dallas, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Seattle, Atlanta, Pittsburgh etc have all had had success doing this. They're a catalyst for additional development. Housing, office space, bars, retail. If the stadium is built for 10 games a year and tailgating then it's a horrendously dated business model. Cheap and nasty.

Why build a new stadium at all then?

Another reason why the OP plan is crazy. Why on earth would UB move football 16/17 miles south of campus with no major transport links and nothing else in the area? Sharing a new stadium in Amherst was by far the best proposal if they weren't going Downtown. Close to the UB Campus, metrorail extension, highways, closer to the population center. Talk about lipstick on a pig.

Am I oversimplifying it by saying we are relying on Poloncarz to say that the proposal in the AP article isn't acceptable?

Metlife Stadium - 82k seats, 230 suites (1.6bn value 2010, 1.9bn value 2020) New Bills stadium - 60k seats, 60 suites (1.4bn value 2021) Metlife is also quite a bit closer to Manhattan than the proposed stadium is to DT Buffalo.

That was what I'm thinking is somehow the answer despite the much different cost of doing business and living in Upstate v NYC. It stinks to me.

1.4bn for an open air stadium with only 60k capacity in Orchard Park. Someone tell me we aren't getting ripped off!? Lucas Oil Stadium with a 70k capacity in a Downtown location, attached to the Convention Center and a retractable roof cost 720m dollars - 858m with inflation in 2019. This is WNY, not Manhattan. Surely the cost of getting a lot less for 542m more is nothing but madness? My brain is about to melt at how the maths are adding up. Also, if they wanted to stay in the suburbs, Amherst was far more preferable with UB football as a potential additional tenant and a potential metro rail extension. Saying it now, the whole deal is its being presented in these articles is *****. Reduced capacity, no value for the tax payer, no additional events, still the same outdoor stadium in the snow belt. I actually would rather stay in the Ralph as is than this.

I think rebuilding open air in Orchard Park is lunacy. I've always supported a city stadium and I can't get my head around how rebuilding open air in OP would cost double what Indy got for a Downtown stadium with a retractable roof and an attachment to the convention center. Even with inflation etc.... Heck if they are going to stay in the suburbs I'd have stomached Amherst as Wilkinson suggested they considered. Operate a facility close to UB and you could have added the Bulls as a tenant and gotten an additional 6/7 days of use out of the stadium a year and a bit more value for the tax payer and I'm sure UB may have kicked in a contribution to the costs even if it was relatively small. You also have the long awaited metro rail extension to the UB North campus. This is just ***** nuts. If we are going going fork out a shitload of public money regardless of the outcome we might as well do it right.

Also whos to say Jerry Jones isn't actually for this either? Sooner or later a team is going to be in that region whether a team relocates there or an expansion team appears. Might as well get it done in a way that suits him getting a slice of the concessions and catering.

You'll know better than me, but Austin comes across as a new money transient place full of people from other cities already rooting for other teams. And the Longhorns are so entrenched as well. I'm guessing theres a ton of Cowboys fans there historically if you're asking locals to pick an NFL team. Texans I have no inkling about as they're a younger and less successful team. Seems like a mini LA demographically to me and we know how the Chargers move especially to a place that doesn't want them has worked out.

Unfortunately you cannot dismiss these things and have to take them seriously, despite all the different reports coming out from various outlets. St. Louis was about to build its second NFL stadium in 20 years and the team still left. San Antonio/Austin as much as Jerry Jones doesn't want a team there is a growing region and San Antonio has aggressively courted teams before. If they are genuine about wanting 1.5b in public money that is outrageously unreasonable.

Stadiums on their own don't make or break an economy, or revitalize an area all by themselves, but to say they do nothing is absolute nonsense. Like all the things I mentioned about they are small parts of the bigger picture. I'll use the Packers again, simply because all their information is publicly available and easy to find. They contribute $160m dollars a year to their local economy.

The direct article about First Energy Stadium in Cleveland I was referring to has this paragraph which states "Browns Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Dave Jenkins says the Stadium is actually used quite frequently for non-Browns events, up to 150 times a year if you count high-school proms, business meetings, charity fundraisers and similar events.". Have a look at this article on Lambeau Field. It might surprise you how often it actually is utilised, it surprised me. Not just gift shops and museums. Probably the best stadium tour I've ever done as well. https://biztimes.com/sports-venues-home-run-corporate-events-2/

Those that would want to continue tailgating in a Downtown area would still pretty much be guaranteed to be able to do that. Theres a bigger picture however, the vibrancy and economic condition of Buffalo versus a personal desire to drink cans of beer and eat hot dogs out of the trunk of your car in a lot in a parking lot in Orchard Park because thats what we've always done and what I personally like to do. A stadium alone won't revive a city, but combined with things I've mentioned in earlier posts they all contribute to the overall health and perception of the city. Of course in the end money will be the biggest factor in what gets done and where.