Off topic Alabama QBs

[78thealltimegreat]

  Just was curious does Mac Jones struggles along with Tuas and other Bama QBs finally put to rest any argument that it really is Bamas talent around the QB and not the QB itself that makes them successful.
  Cause I think it’s a large enough sample now that if I’m an NFL GM and I see a highly touted Bama QB I just look elsewhere now since Bryce Young will probably get similar hype in another year or two. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[Blainorama5]

No.  Not enough time to truly evaluate either Jones or Tua.  It's like suggesting that all Wyoming QBs are awful.  Would normally be a safe assumption, but a few years later, that's clearly not true.  Ask again in another couple seasons.

[BillsfaninSB]

Hurts is doing okay.  We will see tonight.

 

Im counting him as an Alabama QB. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Little early to condemn Jones and even Tua. Could throw Hurts in the mix there as well as he spent some time there. Any or all of them could still find their groove and be good. 

 

I actually believe Jones will have and ok career as a middle of the road starter. Andy Dalton type career. That could be Tua's ceiling as well with a solid backup as his floor. 

[Blainorama5]

Same goes for Hurts.  I suspect all 3 will have their fair share of horrendous games and ones where you might see some potential.  Problem is these days, it's not good enough to be a good young QB.  So much of their success is due to what the team does FOR them.  Set them up for failure (Darnold in NY) or set them up for success (Josh in Buffalo).  Just 2 examples, but the list is long.

[machine gun kelly]

You don’t choose a QB by a program or not by a program.  You can find these guys in Delaware, Wyoming, and 100 other places.  It just depends.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

You don’t choose a QB by a program or not by a program.  You can find these guys in Delaware, Wyoming, and 100 other places.  It just depends.

Absolutely 

 

Quarterbacking is an independent thing 

 

Most schools like Alabama or Ohio State just don't choose quarterbacks with big time NFL futures, cuz it's abut winning in college 

 

It doesn't mean that those type of quarterbacks can't land at that program

[transient]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

You don’t choose a QB by a program or not by a program.  You can find these guys in Delaware, Wyoming, and 100 other places.  It just depends.

Don't forget QB factories like Miami (OH), Alcorn State, Boston College, Iowa Barnstormers/Amsterdam Admirals, Brigham Young, Purdue... just a few of the random places that teams found QBs that have ended up in the top 20 in spurious historical NFL QB rankings.

[Fan in Chicago]

Cue @Bill from NYC

[Punching Bag]

8 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Cue @Bill from NYC

 

I do not think @Bill from NYC was a bust from Alabama.

 

He may have busted someone from Alabama.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Limeaid

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Absolutely 

 

Quarterbacking is an independent thing 

 

Most schools like Alabama or Ohio State just don't choose quarterbacks with big time NFL futures, cuz it's abut winning in college 

 

It doesn't mean that those type of quarterbacks can't land at that program

Did you omit Clemson intentionally or was it an accident?

 

 

[Buffalo716]

9 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Did you omit Clemson intentionally or was it an accident?

 

 

Dabo actively does try to recruit QBs with NFL futures .. he was all over Watson and Lawrence who were top recruits and NFL prospects

 

He doesn't want just runners

 

Historically Ohio State goes for runners, and Saban never cared if his quarterback had a bright NFL future... It was scheme scheme scheme 

 

Saban didn't used to recruit 5* QBs... Now he does because he realized he can't win with another Jake Coker or McElroy

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Buffalo716

[machine gun kelly]

17 minutes ago, transient said:

Don't forget QB factories like Miami (OH), Alcorn State, Boston College, Iowa Barnstormers/Amsterdam Admirals, Brigham Young, Purdue... just a few of the random places that teams found QBs that have ended up in the top 20 in spurious historical NFL QB rankings.

I knew you'd get it boss.  A program means very little as you find gems in all places.  Purdue is not exactly a powerhouse, but that’s where Brees is from.

[Bill from NYC]

21 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Cue @Bill from NYC

LOL!!!

 

It doesn't surprise me that many fans (most for personal reasons to include jealousy and hate) are ready to declare that Mac, Jalen, and Tua are certain to be busts. The thing is, how did Fields look? How does Lawrence look so far?  How about the wonder boy on the Jets who made a good throw on the run once and was compared to Favre? 🙄 My point is that it takes time to be a good NFL Quarterback. Is there even any doubt about this?

 

I agree with @Buffalo716that yes, Coach Saban's primary concern is to win. This would lead to getting QBs who can mange games to his system, but; times do and have changed. Alabama has a QB now who resembles Russel Wilson. They also have a commit for 2022 (from a HS in Tennessee) who looks as if he can tear apart the SEC and the NFL.

 

Good times ahead for the Tide as long as Saban is around. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Bill from NYC

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

LOL!!!

 

It doesn't surprise me that many fans (most for personal reasons to include jealousy and hate) are ready to declare that Mac, Jalen, and Tua are certain to be busts. The thing is, how did Fields look? How does Lawrence look so far. How about the wonder boy on the Jets who made a good throw on the run once and was compared to Favre? 🙄 My point is that it takes time to be a good NFL Quarterback. Is there even any doubt about this?

 

I agree with @Buffalo716that yes, Coach Saban's primary concern is to win. This would lead to getting QBs who can mange games to his system, but; times do and have changed. Alabama has a QB now who resembles Russel Wilson. They also have a commit for 2022 (from a HS in Tennessee) who looks as if he can tear apart the SEC and the NFL.

 

Good times ahead for the Tide as long as Saban is around. 

 

 

That's why I said historically, and it's not set in stone

 

 

Saban would much rather have a five-star offensive lineman or defensive lineman than a five-star quarterback historically

Edited September 27, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Jay_Fixit]

2 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

No.  Not enough time to truly evaluate either Jones or Tua.  It's like suggesting that all Wyoming QBs are awful.  Would normally be a safe assumption, but a few years later, that's clearly not true.  Ask again in another couple seasons.

Except the sample size for Alabama QB’s is much larger than it is for Wyoming QB’s so you really don’t have much of a point here.

[Bill from NYC]

3 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Except the sample size for Alabama QB’s is much larger than it is for Wyoming QB’s so you really don’t have much of a point here.

I am having a problem understanding the above. Hey.....it is probably me.

 

My question is: Didn't Wyoming also have QBs? Why is there not the same sample size? 

[Wyobills89]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's why I said historically, and it's not set in stone

 

Coach Saban also recruited Alex Smith and made him the number one draft pick 

 

Saban would much rather have a five-star offensive lineman or defensive lineman than a five-star quarterback historically

I'm not sure if you mean urban Meyer instead of Saban. Alex Smith played at mwc Utah at the time. Meyer was the coach for those good Utah teams before he went to Florida.

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, Wyobills89 said:

I'm not sure if you mean urban Meyer instead of Saban. Alex Smith played at mwc Utah at the time. Meyer was the coach for those good Utah teams before he went to Florida.

Yea whoops my bad .. idk why I typed Saban I know it was Meyer  

 

Who also won national championships with a running QB in Tebow

 

It was a brain fart  

 

Most successful college programs don't need a top QB with NFL upside... They need someone to run their offense and not make mistakes 

 

And somebody who could run give you more options in college than someone who will sit in the pocket with limited mobility 

 

First 2 progressions and run works better in college than going through 5 progressions in the pocket

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Buffalo716

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Little early to condemn Jones and even Tua. Could throw Hurts in the mix there as well as he spent some time there. Any or all of them could still find their groove and be good. 

 

I actually believe Jones will have and ok career as a middle of the road starter. Andy Dalton type career. That could be Tua's ceiling as well with a solid backup as his floor. 

Tua's small frame and inability to stay healthy and weak arm, unless he becomes the next Drew Brees, could make him out of league sooner than later.

[dakrider]

Yeah it helps when everyone on your team is practically an all-american. 

Tim Tebow while at Florida - his teams were loaded too.

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Tua's small frame and inability to stay healthy and weak arm, unless he becomes the next Drew Brees, could make him out of league sooner than later.

plus he's a lefty.......

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

Tua's small frame and inability to stay healthy and weak arm, unless he becomes the next Drew Brees, could make him out of league sooner than later.

Yea, I have heard the narrative that has been said about him since college. Some guys change it, some don't. Too early to say he won't.

[BillsFan130]

5 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

No.  Not enough time to truly evaluate either Jones or Tua.  It's like suggesting that all Wyoming QBs are awful.  Would normally be a safe assumption, but a few years later, that's clearly not true.  Ask again in another couple seasons.

I think Tua can be judged a bit.

 

He doesn't really have any good traits which would really concern me if I'm a dolphins fan.

 

Mac definitely can't be judged yet as he's only played 3 games. And actually looked good in 2 of those 

[jkeerie]

Jalen Hurts is lending more credence to your argument with the way he's playing against Dallas.

[Bill from NYC]

12 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I do not think @Bill from NYC was a bust from Alabama.

 

He may have busted someone from Alabama.

I would have released him!!!!!!

 

JK  

[TBBills]

14 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

No.  Not enough time to truly evaluate either Jones or Tua.  It's like suggesting that all Wyoming QBs are awful.  Would normally be a safe assumption, but a few years later, that's clearly not true.  Ask again in another couple seasons.

Yea but you saw flashes with Josh... Tua has not had a single flash. Mac Jones has the worst YPA in the league right now.

 

So far it's true.

11 hours ago, dakrider said:

Yeah it helps when everyone on your team is practically an all-american. 

Tim Tebow while at Florida - his teams were loaded too.

It also helps when 90% of the teams you play have 0-1 guy that will end up in the NFL.

Edited September 28, 2021 by TBBills

[Gugny]

15 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  Just was curious does Mac Jones struggles along with Tuas and other Bama QBs finally put to rest any argument that it really is Bamas talent around the QB and not the QB itself that makes them successful.
  Cause I think it’s a large enough sample now that if I’m an NFL GM and I see a highly touted Bama QB I just look elsewhere now since Bryce Young will probably get similar hype in another year or two. 

 

Considering the fact that after Ken Stabler, the next Alabama QB to become a starter in the NFL was AJ McCarron ... I think the sample size is ample.

[SoCal Deek]

I do find it interesting that in a decade or more of complete domination by Alabama football, nobody would call them a QB factory. They have the best, biggest, and fastest players in the country, year after year after year and yet in the modern era of pass happy football quarterback has never been their strongest asset. 

[CIrvine]

North Dakota State has three Quarterbacks in the NFL.

[dorquemada]

Tua is too slightly built to be a long term player in the NFL.  I'm saying that as a huge fan of both him and Bama.   My Brother in law is a huge Miami fan, and also a Bama fan, and was on cloud 9 when Tua went to the phins.  He's going to go from one injury to the next and be out of the league in a couple years

 

Hurts is more substantially built but probably not as skilled as Tua. 

 

Jones has the best shot at becoming a decent QB.  Its not fair to have him throwing 50 times a game at this stage but we'll have a good sense of him by end of this season

[Jay_Fixit]

18 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I am having a problem understanding the above. Hey.....it is probably me.

 

My question is: Didn't Wyoming also have QBs? Why is there not the same sample size? 

Yes it’s you.

[DrDawkinstein]

21 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  Just was curious does Mac Jones struggles along with Tuas and other Bama QBs finally put to rest any argument that it really is Bamas talent around the QB and not the QB itself that makes them successful.
  Cause I think it’s a large enough sample now that if I’m an NFL GM and I see a highly touted Bama QB I just look elsewhere now since Bryce Young will probably get similar hype in another year or two. 

 

I'm a big college football fan, living in the heart of SEC country, and follow Bama pretty closely... I've NEVER heard it argued that it is the Bama QBs who carry the team. It is ALWAYS that the running game and defense make up the heart of the team. Tua has been the only true passing QB that Bama has had in recent memory.

 

Bama QBs have always been overlooked in the draft (and rightfully so).

 

I think Jones rode a little of Tua's passing hype, but folks still knew what Jones was. I dont think Young will get much hype coming out unless his game improves greatly.

[corta765]

Get back to me in 2 years. Way to early to tell with any of them although Tua they may ruin at the rate its going.

 

In general to QB's succeed ie: division titles, SB appearance, etc.. 40% ish of the time drafted 1st round. I don't think any college is really a true QB U as much as its the luck of the draw. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by corta765

[dave mcbride]

19 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Except the sample size for Alabama QB’s is much larger than it is for Wyoming QB’s so you really don’t have much of a point here.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Casey D]

There has not been a really good QB out of Alabama since Ken Stabler.  Before that, Joe Namath.  The current NFL Alabama grad QBs are going against the last 40 years of history.

[BigAl2526]

Including Hurts, Alabama has put 3 QBs in the NFL in the last 3 years.  That pretty much speaks for itself.  As far as QBs with a full set of elite traits are concerned, those are rarities even in the NFL.  I'm sure if Alabama could recruit one, they would, but Nick Saban is competing with lots of other teams, and Saban is not omniscient.  He can also miss on a player, like so many other missed on Josh Allen.  At some point, I think Saban is likely to hit on a QB who has it all.

[dorquemada]

9 minutes ago, Casey D said:

There has not been a really good QB out of Alabama since Ken Stabler.  Before that, Joe Namath.  The current NFL Alabama grad QBs are going against the last 40 years of history.

 

Also though, to be fair, what percentage of QBs at any given moment are considered 'good' versus JAG?  20%?   Running with that number, that means there are about 6 QBs considered good in a given year.  Even if it's 10, the Law of Numbers tells us that the chance that in any given year that an Alabama (or Clemson, Notre Dame, whomever) QB will be in that top tier is pretty low.  There are about 130 D1 teams, each has a QB.  It really is a crapshoot who is going to be great and who will be JAG or worse.  We got real lucky this time after whiffing for 30 years.  I will say that when I hear the pundits call someone "the most NFL ready QB of the draft" i assume low ceiling loser like other josh

 

Out of Tua, Hurts, and Jones, i expect 2 of them will be backups within a couple years and maybe one of them will be a middling QB

[mannc]

19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yea whoops my bad .. idk why I typed Saban I know it was Meyer  

 

Who also won national championships with a running QB in Tebow

 

It was a brain fart  

 

Most successful college programs don't need a top QB with NFL upside... They need someone to run their offense and not make mistakes 

 

And somebody who could run give you more options in college than someone who will sit in the pocket with limited mobility 

 

First 2 progressions and run works better in college than going through 5 progressions in the pocket

 

Helmet scouting is certainly risky, but IMO there is a greater "buyer beware" factor for QBs coming out of schools like Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State.  Those schools are so loaded with talent, and so far superior to most of their opponents, that it can be especially hard to determine whether their success was the result of their own abilities or more a reflection of the talent and the system around them.  For what it's worth, I think Mack Jones is going to be a good NFL QB, and that Tua is a prime example of a QB with average ability who was made to look like a superstar by the talent around them...

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Helmet scouting is certainly risky, but IMO there is a greater "buyer beware" factor for QBs coming out of schools like Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State.  Those schools are so loaded with talent, and so far superior to most of their opponents, that it can be especially hard to determine whether their success was the result of their own abilities or more a reflection of the talent and the system around them.  For what it's worth, I think Mack Jones is going to be a good NFL QB, and that Tua is a prime example of a QB with average ability who was made to look like a superstar by the talent around them...

I think that you obviously need to scout quarterbacks with a grain of salt that are at those schools 

 

But it doesn't mean that successful quarterbacks can't come from them

 

In fact I've watched every snap of Tua and Mac.. and I honestly think Tua is the more talented quarterback

 

He just might not have the physicality to withstand the rigors of the game 

 

Before his hip injury he was probably going over burrow ... That really changed the course of his career 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Buffalo716