2nd Half Defense: What Happened

[RyanC883]

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

They only gave up 16 points total.  They weren't the issue.

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

They only gave up 16 points total.  They weren't the issue.

 

Agree, they were not the issue, but giving up that many first downs and yards is an issue.  (eats clock when your offense needs the ball).  The D was good in the first half, what happened.  Why so many first down conversions for PIT?  

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Agree, they were not the issue, but giving up that many first downs and yards is an issue.  (eats clock when your offense needs the ball).  The D was good in the first half, what happened.  Why so many first down conversions for PIT?  

 

 

Tight end seem route, and whoever Levi Wallace was supposed to cover seemed to be where they attacked with success. 

[RobbRiddick]

Maybe they were getting tired. Plus I think they felt the pressure of coming up with a turnover because the offense was struggling so badly, looked like they were pressing a lot. 

 

To be honest there were a lot of plays where Pitt just made a great play. There was one where White had great coverage and they still managed to complete it. Sometimes things just go that way.

[RyanC883]

Just now, RobbRiddick said:

Maybe they were getting tired. Plus I think they felt the pressure of coming up with a turnover because the offense was struggling so badly, looked like they were pressing a lot. 

 

To be honest there were a lot of plays where Pitt just made a great play. There was one where White had great coverage and they still managed to complete it. Sometimes things just go that way.

 

Great points, I agree.  Although you'd like to see a vet defense not "press" so much.   

 

And that White coverage play to Claypool?  Claypool is a beast.  I do wish White turned his head around, I think he had a better chance of knocking the ball away, but then again, if he misses, Claypool is gone.  Like you said, great play by PIT there.  

 

 

 

 

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Agree, they were not the issue, but giving up that many first downs and yards is an issue.  (eats clock when your offense needs the ball).  The D was good in the first half, what happened.  Why so many first down conversions for PIT?  

 

 

The league is set up for teams to score. Pitt has a lot of playmakers and a HOF QB, and they are always at least pretty good. Holding them to 16 over a full game is basically an example of the D doing its job.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, RobbRiddick said:

Maybe they were getting tired. Plus I think they felt the pressure of coming up with a turnover because the offense was struggling so badly, looked like they were pressing a lot. 

 

To be honest there were a lot of plays where Pitt just made a great play. There was one where White had great coverage and they still managed to complete it. Sometimes things just go that way.

That back shoulder throw juju came up with was incredible. 
 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Jobot]

So Ben had to sacrifice his body and put his season at risk to put up 16 points in a week 1 game... The Steeler's season or any bid at the playoffs is unofficially over because he's not lasting close to 17 games.

[eball]

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Great points, I agree.  Although you'd like to see a vet defense not "press" so much.   

 

And that White coverage play to Claypool?  Claypool is a beast.  I do wish White turned his head around, I think he had a better chance of knocking the ball away, but then again, if he misses, Claypool is gone.  Like you said, great play by PIT there.  

 

 

 

 

 

That Claypool catch and the Johnson TD catch were just outstanding individual plays by receivers with very tight coverage.  Not much you can do other than tip your cap and say, "great play."

 

The play of the Bills' D was very reassuring to me...yes, they could have gotten another stop but there were a number of plays the Bills "whiffed" on with respect to offense and ST that gave this game away.

[JMF2006]

7 minutes ago, Jobot said:

So Ben had to sacrifice his body and put his season at risk to put up 16 points in a week 1 game... The Steeler's season or any bid at the playoffs is unofficially over because he's not lasting close to 17 games.

 

Yeah wait until they play Cleveland and Baltimore twice each and those are really mean division games with 2 nasty D's

[CincyBillsFan]

I think two opposing things can be true at the same time:

 

1) The Bills D was not the main reason they lost.  They only gave up 16 points.

 

2) The 2nd half performance by the Bills D did contribute greatly to the loss.

 

The D allowed Pittsburgh to score 13 points on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half.  All three drives were long, time consuming drives that robbed the Bills of at least one and possibly two offensive possessions.

 

Now if the offense was firing on all cylinders it wouldn't have mattered.  But given the type of game it was the D's let up in the 2nd half combined with the blocked punt TD were major contributors to the loss.

 

Over the course of a long season the offense will win some games 38 - 31 but there are going to be times when the O is misfiring and we'll have to win a game 16 - 13.  Yesterday was a prime example of this.  And this thread is correct to point it out.

 

 

 

[BillsVet]

20 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The league is set up for teams to score. Pitt has a lot of playmakers and a HOF QB, and they are always at least pretty good. Holding them to 16 over a full game is basically an example of the D doing its job.

 

Hence why investing in more high dollar defenders other than at CB and DE is often a bad investment.  One would hope the HC's defensive pedigree would slowly retreat toward accepting this, but it has not. 

[Meatloaf63]

2 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Hence why investing in more high dollar defenders other than at CB and DE is often a bad investment.  One would hope the HC's defensive pedigree would slowly retreat toward accepting this, but it has not. 

Except Tampa’s defense won them the game last Super Bowl and being able to generate pressure in Qb’s still is the best way to disrupt an offense.

[BillsVet]

Just now, Meatloaf63 said:

Except Tampa’s defense won them the game last Super Bowl and being able to generate pressure in Qb’s still is the best way to disrupt an offense.

 

Did you miss the part about "DE" in my post?  In a 40 front that's where your pressure is more often than not coming from.

[SCBills]

33 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Agree, they were not the issue, but giving up that many first downs and yards is an issue.  (eats clock when your offense needs the ball).  The D was good in the first half, what happened.  Why so many first down conversions for PIT?  

 

 

 

The Defense wasn't just good in the first half, they were next level elite.

 

The Second Half, yes, they had some struggles, but still held the Steelers to FG's, while our Offense kept spazzing out.  The one TD coming on a great individual play by Johnson over Levi.  This also in conjunction with the refs deciding to call both holding on Tre and PI on Levi (I'm ok with the PI, but it's still one you don't see called sometimes, and they owed us one after that Tre White call).  Also Claypool simply made a great play on Tre.  It happens.

 

I thought Ben played really well in the second half too.  He was buying time and making good throws.  

 

Giving up 16 points in one half isn't ideal, but when your offense keeps putting the defense in bad positions all half, that can happen.... even to, what we're all hoping, is a very good defense.  

 

My gripe is that we still didn't see splash plays BUT we were also a bit unlucky...   Watt had a strip sack that they recovered.  Addison had a strip sack that they recovered, White has a pick that they erased with a ticky tack holding call and Edmunds just barely missed a deflected interception. 

[RobbRiddick]

23 minutes ago, eball said:

 

That Claypool catch and the Johnson TD catch were just outstanding individual plays by receivers with very tight coverage.  Not much you can do other than tip your cap and say, "great play."

 

The play of the Bills' D was very reassuring to me...yes, they could have gotten another stop but there were a number of plays the Bills "whiffed" on with respect to offense and ST that gave this game away.

 

I think we'll see quite a few games this year where the Bills defense gets a bunch of turnovers 

[Alphadawg7]

42 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Agree, they were not the issue, but giving up that many first downs and yards is an issue.  (eats clock when your offense needs the ball).  The D was good in the first half, what happened.  Why so many first down conversions for PIT?  

 

 

But we dominated the game in every stat category, D played great.  ST unit gave up 7 of those points, otherwise it’s a different game.  
 

The D was quite good actually, Daboll and his offensive game plan and play calls was atrocious 

[First Round Bust]

same issues as last season - the TE working the middle on seam routes and focus picking on Levi Wallace....

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

D wasn’t a problem they got a gift in that defensive holding call and Claypool running back into Wallace drawing a PI and also  got great field position just about every drive in the second half cause the bills went for it twice 

[Augie]

54 minutes ago, Jobot said:

So Ben had to sacrifice his body and put his season at risk to put up 16 points in a week 1 game... The Steeler's season or any bid at the playoffs is unofficially over because he's not lasting close to 17 games.

 

I would MUCH rather have played them in the back half of the season. Much like last year, I think they will start fast and fade as Ben does. I won’t say they can’t make the playoffs, but Ben is not aging like Brady because he’s never been that committed. 

[dave mcbride]

39 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Hence why investing in more high dollar defenders other than at CB and DE is often a bad investment.  One would hope the HC's defensive pedigree would slowly retreat toward accepting this, but it has not. 

Milano was the best cover guy on the field yesterday, fwiw.

[TDO'Kearney]

Wait till Star comes back to eat up guys in the middle.

[CaptnCoke11]

I think the Bills defense will be more like the second half defense we saw yesterday.  Once Pittsburgh started pushing the ball somewhat down field more and putting pressure on our secondary they crumbled.  Levi Wallace is a major liability.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by CaptnCoke11

[BillsFanSD]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

To be honest there were a lot of plays where Pitt just made a great play. There was one where White had great coverage and they still managed to complete it. Sometimes things just go that way.

This was pretty much how I saw it.  There were quite a few plays where the Pittsburgh receiver managed to come down with the ball despite extremely good coverage.  That or they drew a flag.  I lost count of the number of those plays that allowed a drive to continue -- I'm sure it was only just a few, but they were critical and led directly to points, and they were also kind of flukey.  I can't say that I'm concerned at all about the defense after yesterdays game, except maybe for CB2 but that's not why we lost. 

[Jobot]

14 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I would MUCH rather have played them in the back half of the season. Much like last year, I think they will start fast and fade as Ben does. I won’t say they can’t make the playoffs, but Ben is not aging like Brady because he’s never been that committed. 

 

Agreed, they'll be in the wild-card hunt, I can see that falling either way.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I think the Bills defense will be more like the second half defense we saw yesterday.  Once Pittsburgh started pushing the ball somewhat down field more and putting pressure on our secondary they crumbled.  Levi Wallace is a major liability.  

 

Ben had one wide open big play that I can remember... he evaded pressure and hit Friermuth for a big gain.

 

Other than that, Claypool made a great contest catch for a big gain.  They got an iffy, but earned PI on Levi for a big play.  Diontae Johnson made a great play for a TD that was well defended.  Juju made a contested catch to basically seal the game.  

 

I think our Defense has Top 10 potential.  You can have a bad taste in your mouth from 16 second half points, but they still held them to 16 total offensive points.  Good teams make plays.... they did.  Only one of their big second half plays resembled a "crumbling" defense...and when QB's evade pressure, sometimes guys pop open....like on the Freiermuth play. 

[BillsVet]

13 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Milano was the best cover guy on the field yesterday, fwiw.

 

Not going to disagree...but Milano is the second highest paid Will in the NFL. 

[dorquemada]

36 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

D wasn’t a problem they got a gift in that defensive holding call and Claypool running back into Wallace drawing a PI and also  got great field position just about every drive in the second half cause the bills went for it twice 

 

I think this is largely correct, if we can take a dispassionate view.  The Bills left way too much on the table yesterday, between bad decisions (Daboll, if you want a crack at a HC gig, stop being too clever by half) and poor execution, this was a game they probably should have won, but ultimately got beat by a better team who were better prepared

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Not going to disagree...but Milano is the second highest paid Will in the NFL. 

Whatevs. If he's defending like an elite safety in the passing game, he's worth the money. 

[ctk232]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Tight end seem route, and whoever Levi Wallace was supposed to cover seemed to be where they attacked with success. 

Yep, another season with just above average Wallace. I’ve always liked the guy, and an incredible UDFA story, but he hasn’t ever once given reason why his spot cannot be improved upon. A lot of our secondary issues were clouded by the DL conversation in the off-season and somehow needing to drastically improve a pass rush that ranked 5th in pressure rate last season… Holding them to 16 points is a great showing, but that offense wasn’t close to being the best we’ll see this season either.

 

Not much to be done about it at this point, but I’m just waiting for our first round DB/S pick next year given how much room there is to improve here. Dane is also a great promising depth guy, and both are worth keeping on the roster, but DB2 has room to be improved dramatically.

Edited September 13, 2021 by ctk232

[newcam2012]

57 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Ben had one wide open big play that I can remember... he evaded pressure and hit Friermuth for a big gain.

 

Other than that, Claypool made a great contest catch for a big gain.  They got an iffy, but earned PI on Levi for a big play.  Diontae Johnson made a great play for a TD that was well defended.  Juju made a contested catch to basically seal the game.  

 

I think our Defense has Top 10 potential.  You can have a bad taste in your mouth from 16 second half points, but they still held them to 16 total offensive points.  Good teams make plays.... they did.  Only one of their big second half plays resembled a "crumbling" defense...and when QB's evade pressure, sometimes guys pop open....like on the Freiermuth play. 

Overall the defense was solid. However, how much of it was due to the Pittsburgh offense? Pitt has lots of new faces and changes. New coordinator, rookie rb, and an average Oline. Ben on the road isn't nearly as good either. We still lacked a consistent pass rush, failed to get sacks or turnovers. Couldn't stop them when it counted at the end of the game. With that said, the offense, poor coaching, preparation, game plan, play calling, and one special teams play lost the game.

[First Round Bust]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

D wasn’t a problem they got a gift in that defensive holding call and Claypool running back into Wallace drawing a PI and also  got great field position just about every drive in the second half cause the bills went for it twice 

I will disagree wit yam  mundane morn armchair qb style, cuz when it was crunch time, the D let the Steelers move the ball, get first downs and eat clock and kick some FGs, a championship caliber D will make a stand, hold the line, get the ball back to the O for a chance to win the game, the D did not pick up the O...

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

 

 

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

I have been saying it for years there is two different types of philosophy on defense.  There is Frazier's way which is awful and it is like playing prevent defense every down and by the players reaction to it they don't want to play in it  they always look lost in it will average 2 sacks or none at all.  McDermott, way is a aggressive style without alot of blitzing but they stunt all over the line causing confusion with the opposing qb players love this and seem to be around the ball every down it averages about 6 sacks and more a game. I just wish McDermott would just call the defensive plays and stop covering for Frazier who the game has passed him by.

[djp14150]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

defense allowed 16 pts.

 

Pittsburgh TD was helped with a questionable PI call and they started the drive from around the 45.

 

the offense missed on a few plays that would have been the difference

 

then There was Tre phantom penalty that negated the pick.

[John from Riverside]

I thought our offense was not protecting our D at all in the 2nd.......not converting 3rd downs....not scoring points.

 

And when Pitt got the ball....they just kept chipping away at that lead till they took the game back....the block punt ***** everything up

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Did you miss the part about "DE" in my post?  In a 40 front that's where your pressure is more often than not coming from.

Maybe, I’ll re look…ha, didn’t see the word other LOL…

Edited September 13, 2021 by Meatloaf63

[billsherd]

Ben threw couple balls up for grab and they made the play. Happens when the rules are made to help Offenses. D wasn't the problem, eventually Pitt was going to score few points. Blocked punt and O lost that game.

[MasterStrategist]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think two opposing things can be true at the same time:

 

1) The Bills D was not the main reason they lost.  They only gave up 16 points.

 

2) The 2nd half performance by the Bills D did contribute greatly to the loss.

 

The D allowed Pittsburgh to score 13 points on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half.  All three drives were long, time consuming drives that robbed the Bills of at least one and possibly two offensive possessions.

 

Now if the offense was firing on all cylinders it wouldn't have mattered.  But given the type of game it was the D's let up in the 2nd half combined with the blocked punt TD were major contributors to the loss.

 

Over the course of a long season the offense will win some games 38 - 31 but there are going to be times when the O is misfiring and we'll have to win a game 16 - 13.  Yesterday was a prime example of this.  And this thread is correct to point it out.

 

 

 

Not completely untrue, but some major things to consider.

 

1. 1st half our defense played way better than expected. To shut out a team with as many weapons as Steelers have is not easy.

 

2. Giving up 16 points in a single half, on paper seems below average.   But consider that Steelers were given great field position on 3 separate occasions (turnover and 2 4th down missed conversions).  Also, a couple key penalties provided them and extended drives/points.  Both penalties (White holding and Wallace PI) were questionable at best

 

3.  3 FGs and just 1 TD.  That's what our defense surrendered to a team with a HOF QB, a top 5 skille position group, and a new off coordinator that brings challenges to prepare for

 

Bottom line, nobody should be questioning the defense or its performance.  This was all on the offense/poor execution, poor pass protection by oline, 1 ST blunder, and 2-3 very bad playcalls that gave Pitt the momentum back.

 

We should have been leading by 14+ points after our 1st half defensive performance, and the great return by Isaih to start the game. 

 

On to week 2.  Up to the coaches and players to learn from these mistakes and become a better team from it.  Sometimes these losses can be the catalyst needed, or the measuring stick, to adjust future gameplans or personnel.  

[CountDorkula]

What happened?

 

The offense stopped scoring.