Jump to content

NFL Analysts.............. Arm strength: Mahomes > Allen

die hard bills fan
 Share

Recommended Posts

butch rolle Probation

butch rolle

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, die hard bills fan said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32050570/nfl-quarterback-council-2021-ranking-top-10-qbs-arm-strength-accuracy-decision-making-rushing-ability-more

Really?

"Pass velocity and the amount of zip a QB can put on a pass were factors in the ranking, as was the ability to hit the deep ball"

 

Based on this criteria, I find it hard to argue with their rankings.  If it were velocity and zip only, measured empirically by radar, I would say Allen all day.  When you factor in their body of work connecting on deep balls, even Josh has admitted he has a lot of work to do.  

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bimmer323i RFA

Bimmer323i

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

I'll admit, I'm surprised by that. I think Allen's arm is noticably stronger. 

Yea I was surprised by that also… I think Allen def has a stronger arm than Mahomes it’s just some people can’t get off of Mahomes n##s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bimmer323i RFA

Bimmer323i

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, wppete said:

Hilarious haters gonna hate. Josh Allen clearly has the Strongest Arm to ever play football!!

Man I hope we crush Kansas City this year when we play…. I hate kc more than I do the pats at this point…. Us beating kc outta curb all the Mahomes talk for a minute 

  • Agree 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Buffalo Junction Veteran

Buffalo Junction

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, butch rolle said:

"Pass velocity and the amount of zip a QB can put on a pass were factors in the ranking, as was the ability to hit the deep ball"

 

Based on this criteria, I find it hard to argue with their rankings.  If it were velocity and zip only, measured empirically by radar, I would say Allen all day.  When you factor in their body of work connecting on deep balls, even Josh has admitted he has a lot of work to do.  

It’s easier to connect on those when you have a receiver who can outrun everyone to open green and a TE who can win contested catches like no other. The combination creates space on its own. That said, we’ll see if Allen makes another developmental leap. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
billybrew1 RFA

billybrew1

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Bimmer323i said:

Man I hope we crush Kansas City this year when we play…. I hate kc more than I do the pats at this point…. Us beating kc outta curb all the Mahomes talk for a minute 

More than New England?

 

Youre crazy. I hope we beat the Pats thirty times in a row by thirty.

 

Then, maybe then, the hate will let up.

 

I got nothin' against the chefs. They're f-fen good. Naturally, Idont 

like them, but hating them isn't there yet for me. I wonder if we can beat them this year? We're going to have to be healthy, #1. Number two,Josh has to play his ass off and no one can let him down. #3 gotta move Mahomes off his spot and make him nervous. We gotta pressure!. #4 gotta cover the twins for KC. We failed miserably at this last game. It was shameful. #5 gotta win the STs battle. 

 

Hard to do but Then we win....

 

Go Bills!

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
butch rolle Probation

butch rolle

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

Mina Kimes:  "I'm surprised that Allen didn't end up No. 1 here. Sure, Mahomes throws the prettier deep ball, but if we're just assessing arm strength, Allen's cannon is indisputable."

But they are which is exactly why they have him behind Mahomes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BigAl2526 Veteran

BigAl2526

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, butch rolle said:

But they are which is exactly why they have him behind Mahomes.

Well, this ranking is an ESPN thing, and Mina Kimes, whom I quoted is an ESPN personality.  I thought it would be OK to post her difference of opinion with their consensus choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
die hard bills fan RFA

die hard bills fan

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

1 hour ago, butch rolle said:

"Pass velocity and the amount of zip a QB can put on a pass were factors in the ranking, as was the ability to hit the deep ball"

 

Based on this criteria, I find it hard to argue with their rankings.  If it were velocity and zip only, measured empirically by radar, I would say Allen all day.  When you factor in their body of work connecting on deep balls, even Josh has admitted he has a lot of work to do.  

 

 

52 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

It’s easier to connect on those when you have a receiver who can outrun everyone to open green and a TE who can win contested catches like no other. The combination creates space on its own. That said, we’ll see if Allen makes another developmental leap. 

 

Totally Agree, and according to this guy's look at Next Gen Stats Mahomes isn't even in  his top 10 deep passers of 2020.

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-top-10-deep-passers-of-2020-aaron-rodgers-lands-at-no-4

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

Posted
Posted

This is already in another thread, but it wouldn’t be a bills message board without a different thread that consists of whining and crying about it

54 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

More than New England?

 

Youre crazy. I hope we beat the Pats thirty times in a row by thirty.

 

Then, maybe then, the hate will let up.

 

I got nothin' against the chefs. They're f-fen good. Naturally, Idont 

like them, but hating them isn't there yet for me. I wonder if we can beat them this year? We're going to have to be healthy, #1. Number two,Josh has to play his ass off and no one can let him down. #3 gotta move Mahomes off his spot and make him nervous. We gotta pressure!. #4 gotta cover the twins for KC. We failed miserably at this last game. It was shameful. #5 gotta win the STs battle. 

 

Hard to do but Then we win....

 

Go Bills!

Beating KC is the pinnacle of our season now.  This isn’t pre 2019 anymore.  Times change.  We are superior to NE.  Set your sights higher 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Doc Brown Hall of Famer

Doc Brown

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, butch rolle said:

"Pass velocity and the amount of zip a QB can put on a pass were factors in the ranking, as was the ability to hit the deep ball"

That has nothing to do with arm strength.  No wonder ESPN is in decline.

  • Like (+1) 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MJS Hall of Famer

MJS

Posted
Posted

Most deep balls don't require crazy arm strength. I'm not sure why the deep ball is always included when looking at arm strength. Brady has always been able to throw the ball deep and his arm strength has never been amazing. Yes, if you are trying to throw it 80 yards, that's different, but that never happens. Deep throws are like 30 to 50 yards in the air and most NFL caliber QB's can throw it that far. The deep ball is more about timing, accuracy, placement, and loft.

 

The true measure of arm strength is in the intermediate game and getting the ball outside the numbers, as well as being able to make off-platform throws and make throws without being able to step into them.

  • Like (+1) 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
DCofNC Veteran

DCofNC

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, MJS said:

Most deep balls don't require crazy arm strength. I'm not sure why the deep ball is always included when looking at arm strength. Brady has always been able to throw the ball deep and his arm strength has never been amazing. Yes, if you are trying to throw it 80 yards, that's different, but that never happens. Deep throws are like 30 to 50 yards in the air and most NFL caliber QB's can throw it that far. The deep ball is more about timing, accuracy, placement, and loft.

 

The true measure of arm strength is in the intermediate game and getting the ball outside the numbers, as well as being able to make off-platform throws and make throws without being able to step into them.

Tyrod threw/throws on of the prettiest deep balls in the league, he’s never been in the conversation of strongest arms.  Tight spiral and arch is everything.  The stronger arm might push it a little further, but catchable and nicest looking, rarely goes to the strongest arm.  Rodgers has probably the best deep ball ever from the strong arm guys, in fairness, probably the best passes ever from a strong arm guy in almost all categories, still doesn’t mean his fast ball is the fastest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
r00tabaga Veteran

r00tabaga

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Bimmer323i said:

Man I hope we crush Kansas City this year when we play…. I hate kc more than I do the pats at this point…. Us beating kc outta curb all the Mahomes talk for a minute 

I still hates me sum Miami from the #13 days but no team will ever be hated more than the Pats*. Maybe when Bill leaves I'll put KC number 2.

 

Please delete mods if this is against community guidelines & standards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stank_Nasty Veteran

Stank_Nasty

Posted
Posted (edited)


Quick scroll woulda shown this was already a thread. And the one I made had a lot more quality info and context while not coming off nearly as sensitive and whiny. 
 

It’s like you purposely left out the rest of the article just to play the “we get no respect” card. Bills fans are gonna rapidly become the most annoying fan base in the NFL if they don’t stop looking for ways to feel slighted. 

Edited by Stank_Nasty
  • Like (+1) 2
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch All Pro

Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

Posted
Posted

If Allen has another season like last year, he's pass Mahomes in a number of these categories like arm strength.   Mahomes certainly has a much larger body of work to go by.  Allen has only one less season, but his first two seasons weren't all that good considering everything.  Last year at this time he wouldn't have even been in the discussion, now he is, give him another year and he and Mahomes could be one and two in just about every category with Allen likely ahead in things like arm strength.

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
NewEra Hall of Famer

NewEra

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

If Allen has another season like last year, he's pass Mahomes in a number of these categories like arm strength.   Mahomes certainly has a much larger body of work to go by.  Allen has only one less season, but his first two seasons weren't all that good considering everything.  Last year at this time he wouldn't have even been in the discussion, now he is, give him another year and he and Mahomes could be one and two in just about every category with Allen likely ahead in things like arm strength.

Agreed.  Josh suffers from only having one elite season under his belt when it comes to these comparisons.  The discussions will be different after he dominates again this season 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
H2o Hall of Famer

H2o

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, butch rolle said:

"Pass velocity and the amount of zip a QB can put on a pass were factors in the ranking, as was the ability to hit the deep ball"

 

Based on this criteria, I find it hard to argue with their rankings.  If it were velocity and zip only, measured empirically by radar, I would say Allen all day.  When you factor in their body of work connecting on deep balls, even Josh has admitted he has a lot of work to do.  

I understand this and it's hard to argue. One thing I will point out though is a majority of those deep passes are going to Tyreke Hill who adjusts his route to the ball in the air as good as, if not better than, any WR in the NFL imo. Mahomes doesn't have to be pinpoint every time because Hill either turns on an extra gear or cuts his route and runs to the ball faster than the man covering him can. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Buffalo716 Hall of Famer

Buffalo716

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, MJS said:

Most deep balls don't require crazy arm strength. I'm not sure why the deep ball is always included when looking at arm strength. Brady has always been able to throw the ball deep and his arm strength has never been amazing. Yes, if you are trying to throw it 80 yards, that's different, but that never happens. Deep throws are like 30 to 50 yards in the air and most NFL caliber QB's can throw it that far. The deep ball is more about timing, accuracy, placement, and loft.

 

The true measure of arm strength is in the intermediate game and getting the ball outside the numbers, as well as being able to make off-platform throws and make throws without being able to step into them.

Thank you 

 

Counting deep ball accuracy for arm strength is a terrible metric 

 

Drew Brees and Eli Manning were great deep ball throwers and neither had cannons

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...