eball Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 10 hours ago, Rk_Bills86 said: For anyone that has a problem with Edmunds play - the issue isn't that he's an OLB playing MIKE - the issue is he's playing the ILB in a majority 4-2-5 def. Without a 3rd LB the majority of the time, he has added responsibility. Considering everything we ask of him, he does an above average job. Our D thrives on the ability to run an extra CB/S to cover routes and have the only 2 true LB on the field plug holes for the run. Essentially: 1) If you want to pass - by the time someone gets open our D-Line should have gotten to you - which didn't happen last year 2) if you want to run - we'll plug the holes and be gap sound - Which was an issue last year because we couldn't plug holes adding additional lanes for RBs to hit I would imagine there would be very few LB in the league that would perform better with the tasks asked of Edmunds. That being said - considering out D and his usage, it would take an incredible leap in his production and usage to become DPOY and I would say it is incredibly unlikely. He just isn't asked to do the things needed to stat stack for DPOY. He's almost the LB equivalent of what Star is to us - Looks poor on paper, but does the dirty/selfless job that allows those around you to thrive. That’s an interesting analysis and I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think what rankles many fans is that Edmunds was a 1st round draft pick the Bills traded up to get, and you kinda expect those guys to be impact playmakers, not “dirty/selfless” role players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 12 hours ago, JohnNord said: Edmunds….I’ll eat my sandal if Edmunds is DPOY Would you like fries with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 12 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Seriously... how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 this thread is going exactly as i thought it would. nicely done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Bill Murray said: Lot of Edmunds hate on here. For the people writing him off and saying we need to move on, to put things into context, Edmunds is 7 months *younger* than Boogie Basham our 2nd round pick this year. He has his entire career ahead of him. And he has a 15M a year contract ahead of him too.....maybe we should sign him a HOPE that he improves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Murray Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, NewEra said: And he has a 15M a year contract ahead of him too.....maybe we should sign him a HOPE that he improves? LOL. signing him on "HOPE" is almost (but not quite) as dumb as judging him as a failure now instead of letting him play and see how it goes. you are saying he wont be worth a new contract after the 2022 season without seeing the next two years on his rookie deal? what did you think about Josh Allen entering last year? The hate toward the kid is unjustified, and the hot takes that he is failure and his career is over should stop, thats all. Edited June 3, 2021 by Bill Murray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflabillsfan1 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Edmunds continues to get a pass because of his age and talent level. When we drafted him, I saw him as a perennial all-pro Lber because of his physical traits. I haven't been impressed so far. Hoping the light turns on for him sooner rather than later. With his current play, I couldn't see giving him a massive extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, Bill Murray said: LOL. signing him on "HOPE" is almost (but not quite) as dumb as judging him as a failure now instead of letting him play and see how it goes. you are saying he wont be worth a new contract after the 2022 season without seeing the next two years on his rookie deal? what did you think about Josh Allen entering last year? The hate toward the kid is unjustified, and the hot takes that he is failure and his career is over should stop, thats all. What are you talking about? Please show me where I said that. Classic example of TBD poster seeing red after reading something he didn’t like and changing the post he’s replying to in order be be even angrier. i don’t hate the kid. I own 2 jerseys. I think he has great upside. I don’t think he’s a MLB. Based on his play so far, he’s not even worth 8M a year, let alone 16M. Sure, he CAN improve. I HOPE he does. I think the likelihood of him becoming a 16M player by the time we have to pony up $ is unlikely......but it’s possible. Maybe the light will turn on this year 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Murray Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, NewEra said: What are you talking about? Please show me where I said that. Classic example of TBD poster seeing red after reading something he didn’t like and changing the post he’s replying to in order be be even angrier. i don’t hate the kid. I own 2 jerseys. I think he has great upside. I don’t think he’s a MLB. Based on his play so far, he’s not even worth 8M a year, let alone 16M. Sure, he CAN improve. I HOPE he does. I think the likelihood of him becoming a 16M player by the time we have to pony up $ is unlikely......but it’s possible. Maybe the light will turn on this year OK, lets review the play by play: OP: someone thinks TE is good and thinks he can win DPOTY TBD et all: He sucks me: Hes young and has his career ahead of him still you: "he will command a big contract in 2 years...maybe we should sign him on HOPE /sarc" me: Thats ridiculous and not what i said , let him play and lest see what happens you: [outrage] youre just like all the other crazies on here [editor note - its the crazies that want to run him out of town 3/5th of the way through a rookie contract] Edited June 3, 2021 by Bill Murray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Well, if that happens it will be even tougher on our resident debbie downers. It's already been a tough couple of years for them, and their list of complaints are getting ruthlessly gutted. I don't know if they can handle losing yet another whipping boy to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rk_Bills86 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, eball said: That’s an interesting analysis and I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think what rankles many fans is that Edmunds was a 1st round draft pick the Bills traded up to get, and you kinda expect those guys to be impact playmakers, not “dirty/selfless” role players. I get that - I truly do - but ask yourself, how many 1st round picks never pan out period. How many of our First round picks prior to our current team front office were just.... useless. Useless and Virtually Useless: Erik Flowers, John McCargo, Leodis McKelvin, Aaron Maybin The best of this bunch if Leodis McKelvin who single handily lost us more games than I care to count. Average to Above Average: Nate Clements, Donte Whitner, Marcell Dareus, Shaw Lawson Talented players that spent time on other teams and fizzled out. Character flaws and skill/ability limitations became more apparent when they wore different uniforms. Above Average to Great: IMO this is where Edmunds sits - more to the point, this is roughly where players, coaches, and football analyst consistently put him and I'm inclined to agree. Pretty Dam Awesome: Stephon Gilmore I mean this was a great 1st pick, and we couldn't keep him (nor did he actually want to stay - and I don't blame him considering how the organization was at the time). At one point he was thought as a the #1 corner in the game for a few years..... but at no point has anyone said he's going to the HoF. HoF - Slam Dunk Picks: Zero The hate he gets on these boards is absurd. I'll say it again, the short term memory of how poorly we drafted prior to the current administration coming in is staggering. Years upon Years of poor draft picks that either did not see credible playing time and/or were wasted picks seems to have been forgotten by many here. How many players did we draft that never saw a second contract or were traded to at least recoup some of the draft value. Look at how the team is viewed currently - a team with no glaring hole and simply in the need of star power at certain positions. More to the point, if I remember correctly, there are only 1 or 2 players on the team from before Mc/Beane (I want to say it's Hughs and the Long Snapper)? That says a lot about where we were before hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 the author clearly doesn't watch bills game. look, i'm not saying edmunds is bad, but i am saying that considering him even as a candidate for defensive player of the year is bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 TE is NO where near as bad as some think - but again now where near DPOY either......I will throw this out since one or two of the downers stated 2019 was a much better year for him. He was what 20 years old? What was different between 2019 and 2020? A real 1 tech in front of him. If and this is a HUGE if Star comes back and continues his lunch pail play I will venture TE will have a much better year.....DPOY? Nope. But much better if the Bills provide some 1 tech support. Haters gonna hate.....it fuels them behind their keyboards. I just hope that the haters eat crow and TE holds the Lombardi over his head in February...... Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 17 hours ago, Max Fischer said: The takeaway is most Bills fans criminally undervalue Edmunds. He probably won’t win DPOY but he has DPOY talent and ability. but. but. but this is exactly why those of us are so down on him. precisely because he has the tools. Look like Tarzan, play like Jane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 11 hours ago, Protocal69 said: Ed Oliver has a better chance at DPOY then Tremaine Edmunds Why is that exactly ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: For about a 10 game stretch in 2019 maybe so, but in 2020 he was one of the worst players on the field. Please go back and watch the games. You will be hard pressed to find 5 impact plays all year. He had a really impressive stop on a 4th and goal against San Fran. That was his highlight play of 2020. The worst was him almost tearing his groin and falling flat on his face as Cam Newton ran past him into the endzone. In between was a high number of tackles 5+ yards downfiles, many missed open filed tackles, horrible angles to the ball and terrible blitzes up the middle. He played better down the stretch presumably as his shoulder was healing but he was also positioned outside with Klein at MLB. I 100% agree he physically looks like a guy that can dominate but he has terrible instincts, is slow to diagnose run and pas splays, and just doesn't make plays. Is that intelligence, is that football savvy, is that inexperience? I don't know but I know what I see on film. If he plays like he did in late 2019 and the kids at DE play well the Bills defense has a chance to be top 5. We know you can not teach instincts , I hope as he matures as a player he learns to diagnose plays and make better decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 I can't believe he is so young still... Guy just turned 23 in May I think he will continue to progress, and in terms of build and size, he will mature as well and become more dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 19 hours ago, Buffalo619 said: Edmunds is too slow physically and mentally to be even considered for DPOY. Mr. Whitewash. We need to upgrade that position. It's ok if you're not an Edmunds fan, but calling him "slow" just shows you don't know anything. He ran a 4.54 40 and plays extremely fast. The problem is reading coverage and physicality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, maddenboy said: but. but. but this is exactly why those of us are so down on him. precisely because he has the tools. Look like Tarzan, play like Jane. Funny how most fans, media and talent evaluators believe Edmunds plays at a Pro Bowl level. But you do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 19 hours ago, Max Fischer said: The takeaway is most Bills fans criminally undervalue Edmunds. He probably won’t win DPOY but he has DPOY talent and ability. Criminally undervalued? Come on. He's been average in the run game and poor in pass coverage. He should be better than last year but I don't ever expect him to fall into the elite tier of linebackers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Criminally undervalued? Come on. He's been average in the run game and poor in pass coverage. He should be better than last year but I don't ever expect him to fall into the elite tier of linebackers. Will you settle for Pro Bowl-caliber? Will you acknowledge the Bills seems to love him, football analysts constantly praise his play and that the Defense if MUCH better when he's on the field, that he's 23 years old and has the potential to reach your "elite" tier? That might help you through the acceptance stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Where did this poor in pass coverage come from lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharky7337 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Ya if defense is done by getting run over and missing tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Max Fischer said: Funny how most fans, media and talent evaluators believe Edmunds plays at a Pro Bowl level. But you do you. hail naw. And I get the posters who argue that this is not the age nor the defensive scheme for Dick Butkus or Ray Lewis. But still, show me some fire. Make mistakes at full speed, instead of tippy-toe moves to make sure you arrive eventually at the right place or whatever your flawed decision tree requires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Max Fischer said: Will you settle for Pro Bowl-caliber? Will you acknowledge the Bills seems to love him, football analysts constantly praise his play and that the Defense if MUCH better when he's on the field, that he's 23 years old and has the potential to reach your "elite" tier? That might help you through the acceptance stage. I'd settle for pro-bowl caliber if it werent a popularity contest. The Bills do seem to be wedded to him. Doesnt mean love. right now they are stuck with him. They dont seem to be as negative as we posters but that doesnt mean they love him. They loved him when they drafted him, for sure. And i'm tired of '23 years old." Where is the mental growth? his body is the same. his play is the same. I dont see any positive trend except the Bills havent and wont cut or demote him. Edited June 3, 2021 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 21 hours ago, JohnNord said: Edmunds….I’ll eat my sandal if Edmunds is DPOY 8 hours ago, BuffaloBill said: Would you like fries with that? Would it depend on which of his alts will be eating the fries and sandals though? BuffaloRush, Phil the Thrill, BillyWhiteShows, JohnNord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, maddenboy said: hail naw. And I get the posters who argue that this is not the age nor the defensive scheme for Dick Butkus or Ray Lewis. But still, show me some fire. Make mistakes at full speed, instead of tippy-toe moves to make sure you arrive eventually at the right place or whatever your flawed decision tree requires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) Sooooo, 808, based on the above video are we saying that we didnt draft a "Big Nickel" because Tremaine is already that? serious question. because if so, then we are all evaluating him wrong. And if so, maybe he is more valuable than we nay-sayers think. Edited June 3, 2021 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 minute ago, maddenboy said: Sooooo, are we saying that we didnt draft a "Big Nickel" because Tremaine is already that? serious question. because if so, then we are all evaluating him wrong. And if so, maybe he is more valuable than we nay-sayers think. I mean we played base nickel the whole 2020 basically except for that time they were using Klein for a bit iirc Edmunds' job is a lot different than a normal 4-3 MLB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 23 minutes ago, prissythecat said: Would it depend on which of his alts will be eating the fries and sandals though? BuffaloRush, Phil the Thrill, BillyWhiteShows, JohnNord? What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Max Fischer said: Funny how most fans, media and talent evaluators believe Edmunds plays at a Pro Bowl level. But you do you. The thing is, Pro Bowl level isn't very descriptive.........that could mean you are the best MLB in the league or the 18th best. That distinction matters. The NFC has A LOT of good MLB'ers that are clearly better than Edmunds...........the AFC has very few. When you start talking about being All Pro........then it's a lot less subjective. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Putin said: We know you can not teach instincts , I hope as he matures as a player he learns to diagnose plays and make better decisions That is correct. It is possible to improve his understanding of the game. Remember the cant teach accuracy BS? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: That is correct. It is possible to improve his understanding of the game. Remember the cant teach accuracy BS? Where are all those folks now, I wonder? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 IF!! Oliver becomes what he was drafted for. IF!! Rousseau and Basham come in like DROY candidates. IF!! Star can hold the point of attack so others can eat. IF!! Epenesa takes the next step. IF!! Hughes remains Mr. Consistency. IF! Milano doesn't get injured. THEN! Edmunds has a really good chance of becoming a dominant and possible DPOY candidate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 48 minutes ago, Augie said: Where are all those folks now, I wonder? Probably crawled back under the rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 55 minutes ago, Putin said: Probably crawled back under the rocks I fully admit I was skeptical. What I saw of him in college concerned me. However, once the pick was announced, he was OUR GUY and I was hopeful. Thrilled how he has developed! There is a reason we pay big bucks for our FO and scouts. So many people here think they are experts, and a few I respect a lot. But we are chumps on a couch compared to our professional talent evaluators. Having said all that, I think our chumps might give the Bengals FO a run for their money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 He is 23 years old... https://billswire.usatoday.com/2021/06/03/buffalo-bills-tremaine-edmunds-top-player-under-25-cbs-sports/amp/ "Some would argue he’s yet to consistently live up to his ceiling as a young, imposingly built talent, but he’s still an impressive guy to have roaming the middle. His three-year production (355 tackles, 14 QB hits, 5.5 sacks) earned him more time in Buffalo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 On 6/3/2021 at 9:05 AM, BillsfaninSB said: Yes he did, but don't bother Badol with facts if they disrupt his narrative. Narratives are way more important to some guys. DPOY is certainly wildly unlikely, but he's already playing very well and could certainly improve a lot more with Star in front of him again and as he gets more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: The thing is, Pro Bowl level isn't very descriptive.........that could mean you are the best MLB in the league or the 18th best. That distinction matters. The NFC has A LOT of good MLB'ers that are clearly better than Edmunds...........the AFC has very few. When you start talking about being All Pro........then it's a lot less subjective. Subjective indeed, as your bad take here clearly shows. The AFC has a bunch of good young MLBs who've played very well the past two to three years. Edmunds is certainly one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 I have a hard time imagining Edmunds as DPOY. Frankly I think it's just cracker-dogs. I will be happy for a solid starter who makes an impact play a game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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