Can Patriots challenge with run first offense this year?

[Putin]

18 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

If their defense is really really good they can use a run heavy scheme.  If not they won’t win many games 

We’ve been trying to make the playoffs that way for the last 20 years , we’ve had a top running game and a top 5 defense and still couldn’t win 10 games 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

The ravens have but like even in the old days its hard to come back when you're behind when you dont have a good passing game.

 

 

[aristocrat]

They can get wild card and maybe a playoff win with the right matchup but not much more 

[BigAl2526]

19 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Where can I buy a bleeding Clock ?

Are you some sort of chronological vampire?

[mannc]

9 hours ago, BTB said:

Running game aside, I still think Mac Jones starts opening week, and the Pats make the playoffs. 
 

Cam is a joke of a QB, and I would bet the house that BB does not go with him as #1 this year.  In fact, I don’t even know why BB re-signed him after last years performance. 

I doubt the Pats make the playoffs, but I agree that there’s no way Belichick rolls Cam Newton out there for another season; he was putrid.  It’s Mack Jones’s job to lose.

[BigAl2526]

I think for a strong running game to contribute to a Super Bowl run and win, the QB has to have a level of competence.  And, of course other areas of the team must contribute as well.  Tennessee is dangerous not just because they have Derrick Henry, but because Ryan Tannehill is a competent QB.  At times Tennessee has also had a solid defense.  Even with all of that, only two teams can make it to the Super Bowl in a given year, and only one can win it.  

[P Riv]

They were competitive last year and completely upgraded the roster, 7-9 is the floor for them.  I think they are a threat.  It's probably going to come down to key injuries and who has the roster depth, schemes, and luck to cover for it.  If Cam goes down, they may not skip a beat.  If Josh goes down, we're not looking good.  

[Teddy KGB]

21 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

Agree.

 

Cleveland stayed committed to running throughout the season.

 

Tennessee you know your going to get a steady dose of Henry.

 

And Baltimore is a predominantly read option run team.

 

Running the ball effectively still works to milk the clock, keep a good defense fresh, and keep opposing offenses off the field...

 

The rules have progressively made passing easier, but a commitment to running is not just about milking a lead at the end. 

 

 

 

Idk, Cleveland was pretty close to beating the Chiefs.  

[BigAl2526]

As far as the Patriots are concerned, Cam Newton is no longer a competent QB, unless he proves otherwise.  Mac Jones has proven  nothing in the NFL yet either.  I suspect he'll go through the typical growing pains of a rookie.  I know he's smart, but while the SEC is good, Georgia's defense is not an NFL defense.  I don't think the Patriots are a serious threat to take the division crown back from Buffalo this year.  Who knows what 2022 will bring.

[Bill from NYC]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:25 PM, joey greco said:

You can make the playoffs but can't win the Super Bowl with a run first or smashmouth offense.  It's a relic of a dead era, the rules advantage passing offenses, and if that cheating ***** wants to go 9 and 7 for the rest of eternity he's on the right track, ***** him, ***** his cheating ass, ***** the pats, the end, god bless.

You are certainly an expert at, and 100% qualified to comment about "cheaters!!!"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Greco

 

[GreggTX]

NE's defense will be exceptional this season if they can avoid the injury bug.That will allow them to stay close even against great teams. The offense is still lacking at QB, but there is more talent. Their OL is pretty solid, so they will have success running the ball. I expect them to mount a strong challenge.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 hours ago, TBBills said:

The only thing that matters was last season. Get out of the past.

 

Oh FFS 😣 that is one of THE most ridiculous and asinine statements I've ever heard. Time & time again people who refuse to learn from the past become doomed to repeat it (cliché, yet true.) When a team kicks your *** for the last 20 years it's kind of hard to not have a bit of PTSD. Unlike you, I'm sure McDermott doesn't take them lightly. The moment u underestimate an opponent, you're beat.

 

And if not for beautifully timed FF by Justin Zimmer in the red zone, things might've went a different way in the 1st matchup. It's going to be tough sweeping the Pats 2 years in a row. Since joining the Patriots, Belichick has never had back-to-back losing seasons. Now if u wanna attribute that to Brady then we can argue about the chicken vs. the Egg too. Anyway, thanks for the downvote! I would've preferred a well thought-out response longer than a sentence, but maybe that's too much to ask these days. 🙃 Cheers!

[Bferra13]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2021/05/06/espn-mike-greenberg-bill-belichick-patriots-afc-east/amp

 

Mike Greenberg proclaimed they will win the AFC East bc Belly is pissed off lol. Not sure it works that way Mike.

 

[TBBills]

10 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Oh FFS 😣 that is one of THE most ridiculous and asinine statements I've ever heard. Time & time again people who refuse to learn from the past become doomed to repeat it (cliché, yet true.) When a team kicks your *** for the last 20 years it's kind of hard to not have a bit of PTSD. Unlike you, I'm sure McDermott doesn't take them lightly. The moment u underestimate an opponent, you're beat.

 

And if not for beautifully timed FF by Justin Zimmer in the red zone, things might've went a different way in the 1st matchup. It's going to be tough sweeping the Pats 2 years in a row. Since joining the Patriots, Belichick has never had back-to-back losing seasons. Now if u wanna attribute that to Brady then we can argue about the chicken vs. the Egg too. Anyway, thanks for the downvote! I would've preferred a well thought-out response longer than a sentence, but maybe that's too much to ask these days. 🙃 Cheers!

Never seen someone who is supposed Bills fan want to believe in the Patriots so much. Belichick never had back-to-back seasons with no Tom Brady. Before he had Tom he had plenty of losing seasons.

 

It proved true he isn't as good as Tom made him look. Bad drafting and bad spending on bad FA's caught up with him.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by TBBills

[WideNine]

20 hours ago, TBBills said:

Patriots should work on getting above .500 before people really start to care if they are back again

 

 

The avg point differential between NE and their opponents was only 1.7.

 

Their blowout of the chargers certainly skews that a bit, but they beat the Jest twice and split with Miami.

 

It's going to take more than a one-season beat-down before I feel like we can think past NE on our schedule.

 

I am cautiously optimistic.

 

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 hours ago, TBBills said:

Never seen someone who is supposed Bills fan want to believe in the Patriots so much. Belichick never had back-to-back seasons with no Tom Brady. Before he had Tom he had plenty of losing seasons.

 

It proved true he isn't as good as Tom made him look. Bad drafting and bad spending on bad FA's caught up with him.

 

 

Tom Brady isn't single-handedly responsible for all of their titles. Actually, they weren't really a perennial top offense until the late 2000s. The first couple Superbowl wins were primarily because of a great defense/special teams with Brady as a game-manager. Football is a TEAM game. If it was all on the QB then we would see guys like Dan Marino with 5 rings.

 

Belichick is a great coach. How can you deny this? Year after year he's adapted and evolved his offensive/defensive philosophy to fit the strengths of his team. Over 13 offensive & def coordinators under him went on to become head coaches. 

 

And for you to question my fandom = BS. I don't "believe" in the Patriots. I'm just being cautious because I've learned the hard way from rocking Rose colored glasses and drinking the red & blue Kool aid. 

 

[Charles Romes]

No. I see a good three years wasted by that organization before they finally throw in the towel on Mac Jones, who will do just enough to show promise but in the end is just a hair too slow to ever pose a challenge to our Josh. 

[Bulldog]

I guess that the question at hand is "Should I fear the Patriots*"? The answer is that I do fear the Patriots*- but it is not like I feared them when Brady was on the team. I fear the Patriots* because this is the NFL, all teams are filled with world class athletes & with proper coaching, management, and some breaks could make a run at it (well, probably except the Jets, Jags, & Texans). When Brady was in NE it felt hopeless. Now I don't worry more about the Pat's than most other potential rivals. And oh yeah - f*** the Pats* - I hope they fail spectacularly!

[Protocal69]

I'm just happy to finally be on the side with the great QB. For so many years we tried to win the same way that BB is trying to win now and we would always fall flat on our faces while NE and Brady would always make the playoffs and be in the title hunt every year.

 

Get a lead, play our gaps fits and eventually scheme up a strategy to slow down the TE and we should be ok

[stinky finger]

19 hours ago, mannc said:

I doubt the Pats make the playoffs, but I agree that there’s no way Belichick rolls Cam Newton out there for another season; he was putrid.  It’s Mack Jones’s job to lose.

 

I dunno. I think they can compete for a playoff spot for sure. 

 

Unless MJ really shows something early, I believe Cam will get the nod. However, as you said, some more of that putrid play and to the bench he goes. The leash ought to be short. I suspect fans will be impatient and demanding change sooner than BB.

[Billy Claude]

It's harder, but you can still win with a strong running game, a very strong defense and competent quarterbacking.  The 49ers went to the Super Bowl with that just two years ago.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Billy Claude
Grammar

[Ghost_002!]

Football is about schemes. Always has been. People need to stop looking at what is on paper and drawing conclusions. He still one of the best coaches n the nfl...and has won many different ways.

 

If he has to play with run first offense then he will...they won 7 seven last year with a horrible roster.

 

Their roster has improved, he still one of the greater game planners in the league..

 

The dude has made a name for his self. Stopping high profile QBs w his defense. Be worried about that than whose behind center.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said:

Football is about schemes. Always has been. People need to stop looking at what is on paper and drawing conclusions. He still one of the best coaches n the nfl...and has won many different ways.

 

If he has to play with run first offense then he will...they won 7 seven last year with a horrible roster.

 

Their roster has improved, he still one of the greater game planners in the league..

 

The dude has made a name for his self. Stopping high profile QBs w his defense. Be worried about that than whose behind center.

 

Have you seen his winning percentage with anyone other than Tom Brady behind center?  It's worse than Rex Ryan's.

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Have you seen his winning percentage with anyone other than Tom Brady behind center?  It's worse than Rex Ryan's.

 

 

Are we gonna keep doing this every time?

 

What's Walsh without Montana..

 

How was Jimmy Johnson away from the Cowboys

 

Please with the same tired excuse about his time in Cleveland. Tom Brady is Tom Brady because of BB (not saying he himself didn't play a role).

 

He won a SB without BB because he went to a team who already had an offense just needed someone who was not gonna throw 13 picks.

 

Nothing against Brady but it ain't like he took the Detroit Lions to the SB and won..

 

 

 

Proof of what BB coaching is was last year, even his last SB was won without Tom Brady doing anything.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Jay_Fixit]

New England.

 

 

lol.

[AmishRifle]

Patriots came very close to beating us last year.  I definitely think we may not sweep them this year and that they can win with a run first offense.  

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

Are we gonna keep doing this every time?

 

What's Walsh without Montana..

 

How was Jimmy Johnson away from the Cowboys

 

Please with the same tired excuse about his time in Cleveland. Tom Brady is Tom Brady because of BB (not saying he himself didn't play a role).

 

He won a SB without BB because he went to a team who already had an offense just needed someone who was not gonna throw 13 picks.

 

Nothing against Brady but it ain't like he took the Detroit Lions to the SB and won..

 

 

 

Proof of what BB coaching is was last year, even his last SB was won without Tom Brady doing anything.

 

You might want to check that for yourself now, since you obviously didn't do it before.  And it wasn't just his time in Cleveland: it also includes his first 18 games with the Cheaters and last season.

 

But what was your point?  That Belicheat needs a HOF QB just to even have a winning record, never mind win SBs?  If he made Brady, why can't he do something with a former 1st overall pick and NFL MVP? 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Doc

[Nihilarian]

After reading so much negativity about the Patriots from 2020 I think that they will shock a lot of Bills fans this year. 

 

The 2019 Patriots fielded the #1 defense in the NFL. They had 8 players opt out last season and had a new QB come in as Cam Newton, who arrived to the team late. Not getting any pre season games hurt his learning the offense.

 

Granted, Newton sucked all season. 8 TDs, 10 INTs going 7-8 as he missed game because of covid-19. They still went 7-9! 

 

The Bills didn't see Stephon Gilmore in either game and still only won that first game by 3 points, 21-24.

 

Gotta remember that this HC drafted a QB who had no starts in college and still managed to replace Brady for a season and take the team to a 11-5 record. Matt Cassel. 

 

With a full offseason, training camp, preseason games... my take is the AFC East better prepare!

 

Should Newton have a game this year like he had a game against the 49ers, I can see Mac Jones getting his shot. Short leash! 

 

NE added some receivers this offseason that Brady wishes he had while still in NE. Their offense will be much improved. Their defense should be much improved too.  

 

Playoffs, Maybe? 

[Rocky Landing]

It's an interesting thing going on in NE* at the moment. A lot of weird wrinkles come to mind.

 

For example: If Cam starts the season, and somewhere in mid-season Mac Jones takes over, how well is their offense going to be able to adjust? Cam and Mac (I just realized those two name are the same spelled backwards...!) are polar opposite quarterbacks. The hype on Mac is that he is pinpoint accurate (70% completion). But, he is as un-athletic a QB as you're going to find in the NFL. Cam's accuracy is shot, but he still has his legs, and the ability to extend plays outside the pocket.

 

I have to say that I was rather surprised that they kept Cam, and then drafted Mac. Just on its face, that looks to me like poor management. We didn't keep Barkley because he was a decent QB who could win us games. We kept him because of the relationship, and benefit he would provide Josh Allen. And that worked out pretty well, right? What the hell is Cam going to do for Mac?

 

Last season, Belichick* was in the awkward position of playing around his own weaknesses, rather than playing against his opponents weaknesses. That would seem to continue in 2021. If he starts Mac on day one, that dude is going to flounder, no matter who they face (please, God (Goodell), let it be us!). If they switch mid-season, they will have to have an entirely different scheme dialed up. I know Belichick* is "The Greatest Head Coach of All Time 🙄," but just how efficiently can that be done? There was a frequently asked question, last season: Was "The Dynasty*" a result of Belichick*, Brady*, or truly a combination of the two?

 

Well, if records are any indication, It might seem that "The Dynasty*" was a result of Brady*. And, Belichick* was the benefactor of that exceptional individual. I'm not saying that Belichick* isn't a great head coach. He clearly is. But maybe, just maybe, he isn't the GOAT that history has him penciled in as.

[Ghost_002!]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

You might want to check that for yourself now, since you obviously didn't do it before.  And it wasn't just his time in Cleveland: it also includes his first 18 games with the Cheaters and last season.

 

But what was your point?  That Belicheat needs a HOF QB just to even have a winning record, never mind win SBs?  If he made Brady, why can't he do something with a former 1st overall pick and NFL MVP? 

 

 

It's pretty simple. But since you need it spelled out. Great coaches have great players. And vice versa

 

If you understand football. You know, It wasn't just Brady who got the patriots all those wins..

 

 

Again if you understand football. 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Ghost_002!]

1 hour ago, Rocky Landing said:

 

Well, if records are any indication, It might seem that "The Dynasty*" was a result of Brady*. And, Belichick* was the benefactor of that exceptional individual. I'm not saying that Belichick* isn't a great head coach. He clearly is. But maybe, just maybe, he isn't the GOAT that history has him penciled in as.

 

 

How exactly do you come to this conclusion after a short period of time no less. Nothing that happened last year indicates BB was along for the ride.

 

Did BB screw up the personal in NE and sec guess if Brady could still be effective, yes. But nothing after 

1 year tells a 20 plus year reign. 

 

It's still a team sport. QBs don't play defense and the bucs roster was light years ahead of the pats roster. Like I said if Brady had taken the lions to a SB and won it. I would understand this narrative  TB>>>BB.

 

But too short of a time table to gather any conclusion. How about given it a couple more seasons.

[Rocky Landing]

1 minute ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

How exactly do you come to this conclusion after a short period of time no less. Nothing that happened last year indicates BB was along for the ride.

 

Did BB screw up the personal in NE and sec guess if Brady could still be effective, yes. But nothing after 

1 year tells a 20 plus year reign. 

 

It's still a team sport. QBs don't play defense and the bucs roster was light years ahead of the pats roster. Like I said if Brady had taken the lions to a SB and won it. I would understand this narrative  TB>>>BB.

 

But too short of a time table to gather any conclusion. How about given it a couple more seasons.

Well, if you're going to accuse me of having come to a "conclusion," I might ask you to reference a dictionary, and look up the word "maybe." Also, I have to confess-- your phrase, "Nothing that happened last year indicates BB was along for the ride," makes zero sense to me. What the hell are you talking about?

 

Be that as it may, yes. By all means. I'll happily give Belichick* a couple more seasons of what looks to me like poor team management. And, in all honesty, I can't decide which QB I would like the Bills to face in their first game vs. the Pats*, Cam, or Mac. I can't imagine having a whole lotta faith in either of them.

[Doc]

10 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

It's pretty simple. But since you need it spelled out. Great coaches have great players. And vice versa

 

If you understand football. You know, It wasn't just Brady who got the patriots all those wins..

 

 

Again if you understand football. 

 

Yes I understand football and the importance of great players.  Especially at the QB position.  The question is: do you? 

 

The other question is: do you think the Cheaters have one?  

Edited May 10, 2021 by Doc

[GunnerBill]

19 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

No. I see a good three years wasted by that organization before they finally throw in the towel on Mac Jones, who will do just enough to show promise but in the end is just a hair too slow to ever pose a challenge to our Josh. 

 

So he is going to be Daniel Jones? I'd sign for that. 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So he is going to be Daniel Jones? I'd sign for that. 

 

I'd say AJ McCarron.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I'd say AJ McCarron.

 

I think that is harsh. I didn't think Mac was a 1st round quarterback but his college tape is clearly superior to that of AJ McCarron. I think Mac can be a starter in this league. I just think he can be that starter you are kind of always open to upgrading. Whether you wanna use the classic Alex Smith or Andy Dalton in Cincy comparators or maybe Kirk Cousins... I think Daniel Jones is a reasonable floor as well tough. McCarron has never been more than a backup anywhere - and for good reason, he isn't very good. 

[starrymessenger]

Actually I am more concerned with NE than Jets or even the Finns. I expect them to be competitive on O and very tough on D. I think Cam has some football left in him and not just as a running QB. Unlike last year he will have reliable options to go to in the passing game. So not just ground n’ pound imo. 

I also think that we are better, thanks largely to Allen, but of course we will have to back it up on the field where it counts.

[Big Turk]

The short answer is No. Unless Allen misses a long stretch of games.

[Capco]

On 5/7/2021 at 10:07 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

Bill Belichick's coaching hallmark has always been game planning to identify an opponents' weakness and adjusting his offensive or defensive scheme week to week to exploit those weaknesses.  As offenses have transitioned to pass first philosophies across the league, defenses have begun to adapt by looking for defenders geared more towards stopping the pass.  LBs who have the mobility to cover in the flat seem to be overtaking the prototypical LBs of years past who were run stuffing thumpers.

 

I think Bill is going against the grain and is returning to smash mouth football and trying to build an offense that will take advantage of defenses built to stop the pass.  He doesn't have an elite QB on his roster and he knows he isn't going to win a shootout without Tom Brady under center.  I think he knows that low scoring games are going to give his team as its currently constituted the best chance to win. He wants to run the ball, chew clock, win time of possession, get turnovers on defense, and win games like they did 20 years ago.  He wants to win games 21-17.

 

The loss of Brady forced him to embrace this run first philosophy.  Last season the Patriots were second in the NFL in percentage of running plays at 51.28%.  That strategy can be successful, four of the top five teams in running percentage made the playoffs last year. 

 

1.  Baltimore  55.04%

2. New England  51.28%

3. Tennessee 50.28%

4. Cleveland 47.48%

5. New Orleans 46.95%

 

Bill always seems to have a great O-Line (one of the reasons Brady is still playing at age 64) and last year was no different.  According to PFF the Pats had the 4th ranked O-Line last year and Bill has tried to bolster the O-line even more heading into this season.  I linked below to a recent article about the Pats' 2021 O-line and the PFF O-line rankings from last year.  They will have Wynn and Andrews back for 2021 and they traded for Trent Brown who is a monster during the off season.  As it stands now, the starting O-line in New England is projected to be;

 

LT: Isaiah Wynn
LG: Michael Onwenu
Center:  David Andrews
RG: Shaq Mason
RT: Trent Brown

 

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/03/19/andrews-brown-onwenu-wynn-patriots-offensive-line-depth-karras-mason-nfl-free-agency-cam-newton-belichick/

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

 

The O-Line will also be augmented by frequent two TE sets that put more beef on the line and enable the running game.  I expect the majority of their offensive snaps come out of two TE sets this season with their free agent signings of Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith.

 

The Pats used their 4th round pick to add RB Rhamondre Stevenson that Mike Reiss at ESPN described as "A big, physical back whose style sparks thoughts of LeGarrette Blount, the 5-foot-11, 227-pound Stevenson is an intimidating runner."   Stevenson will be joining James White their fantastic receiving back and Damien Harris who had an injury plagued but solid season, ending the season ranked 11th among RBs with an average of 69 yards a game.  There is talk that Stevenson will allow the Pats to move on from Sony Michel who has had trouble staying healthy.  They also have a young back in J.J. Taylor who was injured most of last season who will be back and add depth.  On the whole, it's not a very scary stable of RBs.   I think there is a widely held expectation that the Pats will add a veteran RB sometime this off season as teams cut RBs due to cap and roster concerns.  I was surprised Kerryon Johnson didn't end up in New England.  I'd be curious to know if they made a run at him.

 

Cam is a obviously a solid running QB and adds a real element to their run game.  Even if Cam gives way to Mac Jones at some point in the season, Jones is likely going to be given game plans like Bill gave the young Tom Brady, more of a game control passing strategy, making short high percentage passes just often enough to keep defenses honest and stop them from stacking the box.  It sounds like that type of offense would play to Jones' strength, whose two main attributes are said to be his accuracy and his ability to read a defense at the line of scrimmage and find the weak spot and put the ball there.

 

The two big questions are how successful can this run first strategy be across a 17 game season in today's NFL for New England?  Can they win enough games this way to challenge for the AFCE title and make a deep playoff run?  The other question as Bills' fans is, how will our defense stack up against this run first philosophy?   Run defense has been a weakness at times for McDermott and Frazier's defenses.  Bill knows the best way to beat QBs like Mahomes and Allen is to keep them sitting on the bench.  It will be interesting to see how Belichick's run first gambit plays out this year.

 

In reference to the trend in general (not the Pats in particular), I think it's worthy to note that the modern passing era cannot just be chalked up to cyclical changes in football strategy.  I think there's another x-factor, one that isn't even a part of the game itself.

 

Money.

 

Or more particularly, the increasing commercialization of the NFL, particularly since Bob Kraft started working out all those mega TV deals and the addition of more primetime games.  This change has gone hand-in-hand with the changes to the rules in the passing game.

 

And who gets to approve rule changes?  The owners... you know, the same guys who have a financial incentive to keep the game "exciting" to watch.  And the general consensus is that high-scoring games with lots of passing taking place are more fun to watch than a 7-3 slugfest.  

 

For smashmouth football to make a full return, it would also need to conquer the almighty dollar.  

[Doc]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that is harsh. I didn't think Mac was a 1st round quarterback but his college tape is clearly superior to that of AJ McCarron. I think Mac can be a starter in this league. I just think he can be that starter you are kind of always open to upgrading. Whether you wanna use the classic Alex Smith or Andy Dalton in Cincy comparators or maybe Kirk Cousins... I think Daniel Jones is a reasonable floor as well tough. McCarron has never been more than a backup anywhere - and for good reason, he isn't very good. 

 

I said McCarron because of the Alabama connection, i.e. having amazing talent surrounding them.  Doesn't matter where he was picked in the draft.