Texans' Deshaun Watson accused of indecent conduct in civil lawsuit; QB denies wrongdoing

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yeah, I do agree that social media is adding to the flame but 22 is the biggest reason.  It makes him look like a serial sexual predator like Cosby. 

For him to have that many suits against him, the public is going to have a hard time forgiving him IMO.

He's done. 

9 minutes ago, H2o said:

I've been saying this for weeks, that his career may be over. If not I see a 2 to 3 year disruption while things play out. The whole situation and the circumstances in itself is not only strange, but disturbing to say the least. I can't see anyone wanting him to be the face of their franchise and choose to deal with the surrounding circus unless he is somehow fully exonerated, which seems HIGHLY unlikely. 

The only way he comes back from this is by becoming the victim. These girls will have to admit to lying. 

[Chaos]

54 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

This could be the biggest fall from grace from any athlete in my lifetime.  These are just allegations so he is innocent now but it's not looking good.

OJ a says hello 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

And so it begins

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Here we go, the meter starting to tilt in the women's direction. 

 

Which team are you on?

Team Watson or Team Women?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Spiderweb]

6 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Here we go, the meter starting to tilt in the women's direction. 

 

Which team are you on?

Team Watson or Team Women?

Team Truth...

[MAJBobby]

Career paused for Watson. This is going to get even more ugly IMO. 
 

no team is trading for him 

[H2o]

15 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Watson's career and endorsements

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Told to beat it. 

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, Boxcar said:

I don't think it's telling at all. First, his teammates probably have no idea what actually happened, and second, sticking your neck out for him could cost them something too, as the Twitter mob would set their sights on that player.

Thats fair. I guess I'm just surprised. It seems his only character witnesses right now are the women he didn't assault 

 

Hell Aaron Hernandez had more support than this from former teammates 

[mannc]

32 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Thats fair. I guess I'm just surprised. It seems his only character witnesses right now are the women he didn't assault 

 

Hell Aaron Hernandez had more support than this from former teammates 

His teammates don’t know the facts.  Anyone who comes out in support of Watson right now is taking a huge leap of faith and runs the risk that they will look really bad if Watson turns out to be a mini Jeffrey Epstein...

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Here we go, the meter starting to tilt in the women's direction. 

 

Which team are you on?

Team Watson or Team Women?

This is sad how right you are- people will shame you either way if you say that you want more information before deciding. I wish there was some evidence shown- I would take some DMs- but right now it is simply allegation and denials with nothing to back up either.

[H2o]

Now Reliant Energy is backing away from Watson.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/07/reliant-energy-will-not-continue-working-with-deshaun-watson-as-brand-ambassador/

 

Quote

“Reliant is aware of pending civil lawsuits and a criminal investigation involving Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans quarterback,” the statement said, via Aaron Reiss of TheAthletic.com. “Our relationship with Watson as a brand ambassador was scheduled to end this spring prior to these allegations, and there are no plans for future engagements or contracts with him. We take accusations of this nature very seriously. With respect to the legal process, we do not have any further comment on this matter.”

 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, H2o said:

Now Reliant Energy is backing away from Watson.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/07/reliant-energy-will-not-continue-working-with-deshaun-watson-as-brand-ambassador/

 

Now it's a power outage.

[Boxcar]

6 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

People always say wait for the legal process to play out, but that isn’t always the reasonable standard.  Did anyone need to let the legal process play out to know ray rice did something wrong and illegal?  No, because we saw the evidence.

 

in other words, we were made aware of facts before the legal process played out and that was enough.

 

20+ accusations isn’t evidence or a fact we can look at like a video.  But it’s damning enough circumstances that judging him is more than reasonable.  

No one said you can't judge Watson, have at it. No one is forcing you to like how the law works. Pretty dumb comparison, though. It would be apt if there was a single instance of video evidence, just like Rice.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Yes it was done because he settled out of court. Watson will also. Watson's problem is the public already sentenced him to banishment. 20 years ago Watson likely escapes. Roethlisberger also. The growth of social media the last 10 years has changed so much. 

 

Take the Ray Rice incident. Greg Hardy had an incident that was going away. But once the Ray Rice incident became viral on social media Greg Hardy's incident came back in the light. Hardy's career over. 

 

I thought Hardy's career was over because he stunk?  From WIki:

"After his quick start, although he played with a high effort, he struggled with his technique and his production dropped. He finished as the team leader in quarterback pressures (32) and was second on the team in sacks (6), with only three coming in the last nine games. Hardy also drew the ire of coach Jason Garrett due to inappropriate tweets, frequent tardiness as well as being a bad influence to the younger players on the team which resulted in the Cowboys not re-signing him after the season."

 

When you got a star who may be a bad influence or have "baggage", the team is motivated to work around all that.  Once the star dims, the baggage appears larger.

Hardy was also arrested for Cocaine possession in 2016, which may have been a problem the Cowboys FO knew about in 2015.

On 4/5/2021 at 9:32 PM, nedboy7 said:

Hey let’s argue over which demented piece of ***** is worse and then put each other down for valuing women or dogs. Yeah!  That’s winning baby. 

 

Indeed.  I would prefer to just say, both actions (if true, in the case of Watson) show suckitude as human beings.  I don't see the value in debating levels of relative suckitude.

[wppete]

 

Beats by Dre Reportedly Ends Deshaun Watson Deal, Nike Suspends Endorsement

 

https://www.complex.com/sports/deshaun-watson-brands-distancing-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

People always say wait for the legal process to play out, but that isn’t always the reasonable standard.  Did anyone need to let the legal process play out to know ray rice did something wrong and illegal?  No, because we saw the evidence.

 

in other words, we were made aware of facts before the legal process played out and that was enough.

 

20+ accusations isn’t evidence or a fact we can look at like a video.  But it’s damning enough circumstances that judging him is more than reasonable.  

 

With all respect, the situation strikes me (uh...) as different.  In the case of Ray Rice, we had a video to watch as evidence.

In the case of Watson, we have allegations.  The allegations may be true and supported by external evidence (friends or colleagues the massage therapist talked to contemporaneously), they may come across as credible, or they may be unsupported and come across as un-credible.

 

I'm sure if there were a video of Watson behaving indecently during a massage appointment people would judge him.

 

Large numbers of accusations have been proven to be incorrect in other cases.  For one example, the Little Rascals Daycare case.  I know that's different - that was children, not adults - but the point stands, that people's memories can be influenced by a number of factors including coaching.   There are others, both ways - the Duke University Lacrosse false accusations, the case of "Marie" from Lynnwood WA who was raped but then coerced by detectives into recanting her story and saying she made it up - but when the serial rapist was caught after committing several more rapes, he had photos of her proving that her original story was true (Lynnwood police were found to have labeled 21 percent of rape cases as "unfounded", five times the national average for similar communities)

 

I'm not saying this is common or likely, but it does happen which is why I choose to reserve judgement and wait for the process to play out, even despite the large number of allegations with a similar story.

[Numark3]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

With all respect, the situation strikes me (uh...) as different.  In the case of Ray Rice, we had a video to watch as evidence.

In the case of Watson, we have allegations.  The allegations may be true and supported by external evidence (friends or colleagues the massage therapist talked to contemporaneously), they may come across as credible, or they may be unsupported and come across as un-credible.

 

I'm sure if there were a video of Watson behaving indecently during a massage appointment people would judge him.

 

Large numbers of accusations have been proven to be incorrect in other cases.  For one example, the Little Rascals Daycare case.  I know that's different - that was children, not adults - but the point stands, that people's memories can be influenced by a number of factors including coaching.   There are others, both ways - the Duke University Lacrosse false accusations, the case of "Marie" from Lynnwood WA who was raped but then coerced by detectives into recanting her story and saying she made it up - but when the serial rapist was caught after committing several more rapes, he had photos of her proving that her original story was true (Lynnwood police were found to have labeled 21 percent of rape cases as "unfounded", five times the national average for similar communities)

 

I'm not saying this is common or likely, but it does happen which is why I choose to reserve judgement and wait for the process to play out, even despite the large number of allegations with a similar story.

 

I don’t think a lot of people understand the process is unlikely to ever play out.  It is unlikely Watson ever has a jury trial (civil or criminal).  
 

all we can do is look at the evidence.  We don’t have any here, so I wouldn’t judge much personally.  But I think when you start getting 20-40 accusers, it is as reasonable to judge as most videos.

 

 

Though, under NFL precedent, he already has done enough to be suspended.  Which is dumb imo

1 hour ago, Boxcar said:

No one said you can't judge Watson, have at it. No one is forcing you to like how the law works. Pretty dumb comparison, though. It would be apt if there was a single instance of video evidence, just like Rice.

I understand how the law works quite well, thank you.  But this whole discussion is about judging, so not sure what you’re talking about.  None of us hypothetical jurors for a hypothetical trial.

[vincec]

I have no idea what happened in these incidents, but given that Watson is an elite QB in his prime- the most coveted asset in all of pro football (and maybe any sport), he will get opportunities to play again no matter what happens unless he actually goes to jail for an extended period of time and is flat unavailable.

[Punching Bag]

3 hours ago, Boxcar said:

No one said you can't judge Watson, have at it. No one is forcing you to like how the law works. Pretty dumb comparison, though. It would be apt if there was a single instance of video evidence, just like Rice.

 

Video evidence would be thrown out like for B👁️bert Krafty.

[Buffalo Junction]

Really wishing the Phins or Jets traded for him now. 

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, Crayola64 said:

 

I don’t think a lot of people understand the process is unlikely to ever play out.  It is unlikely Watson ever has a jury trial (civil or criminal).  
 

all we can do is look at the evidence.  We don’t have any here, so I wouldn’t judge much personally.  But I think when you start getting 20-40 accusers, it is as reasonable to judge as most videos.

 

 

Though, under NFL precedent, he already has done enough to be suspended.  Which is dumb imo

I understand how the law works quite well, thank you.  But this whole discussion is about judging, so not sure what you’re talking about.  None of us hypothetical jurors for a hypothetical trial.

Maybe Watson should find 100 people to say he's innocent. That's more than the women, so I'd have to conclude he did nothing wrong.

[Numark3]

7 hours ago, Boxcar said:

Maybe Watson should find 100 people to say he's innocent. That's more than the women, so I'd have to conclude he did nothing wrong.

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

[Boxcar]

3 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

the logic isn’t hard to follow, even if you disagree.  There are over 20 sets of factual allegations.  When there’s that many, the gist of them are almost always true.  Here that gist is he used massages for sexual purposes.  Whether or not it rises to harassment/assault is really the only issue.  
 

but with that many independent allegations, it’s pretty reasonable to believe he was being inappropriate during massages.   

 

Agree with all this and that is why he is pretty much bang to rights in terms of liability under the civil law. In terms of his career, I think it can survive a finding of civil liability... but it would not survive a criminal charge. What the evidence in the public domain is lacking for that criminal charge at the moment is that single smoking gun piece of evidence. The IG message from Watson saying he hoped he didn't make a woman feel uncomfortable isn't quite it. It doesn't get you to the threshold. But if there are more messages that are retrievable that actually go a step further and admit to the specific actions he is accused of then that takes the criminal case from being hard to prove to one that most prosecutors would bring immediately. 

 

What would make me nervous if I was Watson is just under 2 weeks ago the Panthers were still interested (as per reports) but were doing their own due diligence. They are now clearly going another direction. That leads me to believe that teams having dug into this have assessed that there is more out there that is likely to lead to criminal charges. Similarly you have to believe folks like Nike have done their own background work before taking their decision too. Teams and sponsors backing away at this relatively late stage in the process would lead me to suspect they have done their digging and decided that there is more than what is in the public domain so far.   

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Well.... he's not wrong with that last

2 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

 

I don't become more suspicious as the number grows higher - but neither does it somehow convey automatic likelihood of guilt to me, personally

[cba fan]

43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

I don't become more suspicious as the number grows higher - but neither does it somehow convey automatic likelihood of guilt to me, personally

you don't grow more suspicious of a VIP with 100's of accusers?? vs a VIP with 1?

[Frat-Train]

“Rusty Hardin” seems like a borderline inappropriate name for DW’s attorney, all things considered...

[Mr. WEO]

15 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said:

Really wishing the Phins or Jets traded for him now. 

 

I'm thinking the Fins are pushing these other present and former NFLers into this current crime spree so as to make Watson look not so bad.

 

I mean, it's possible right?  These owners?

[DaggersEOD]

5 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

I'll tell you though, the situation where the SI journalist reached out to a random masseuse and she had her own story very similar to the ones portrayed in the media did more to color my opinion than the (12, 14, 20, 22!) allegations.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, DaggersEOD said:

I'll tell you though, the situation where the SI journalist reached out to a random masseuse and she had her own story very similar to the ones portrayed in the media did more to color my opinion than the (12, 14, 20, 22!) allegations.

 

A similar story that they were able to partially verify by talking to contemporaneous source, no less. 

 

Same here, that did influence me against Watson.  Especially where he contacted her again for a massage and she said "if you behave more professionally...I only do massage" then he was 🦗🦗🦗

[TBBills]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Maybe he should worry about the actual problem of Watson instead of what Buzbee is doing to promote the case.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

[ndirish1978]

The SI article sealed my opinion. Journalists can't just print slander, they'll get fired and the publication will face a huge lawsuit. 

[Punching Bag]

31 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

The SI article sealed my opinion. Journalists can't just print slander, they'll get fired and the publication will face a huge lawsuit. 

 

Sure they do. They qualify it as opinion and use anonymous sources they will defend in court under freedom of press.

[Dafan]

11 hours ago, Boxcar said:

As of yet, they are NOT factual allegations.

 

These also weren't independent. We see it all the time where it starts with one and snowballs. Buzbee was actively looking for more women. Some experienced different things than others, and a small percentage likely experienced nothing at all.

 

If Watson did what is alleged, he should be punished accordingly. That needs to be proven.

 

For me, personally, the higher the number gets, the more suspicious I get. One or two I could see Watson thinking he could get away with, but 20-30? Risking his entire career for something that will surely come out publicly seems...weird. But, maybe he did have a sex addiction. Maybe he did think because he was who he was that everything he did could be considered consensual. But, at the end of the day, no one really knows what happened, and I am clearly not a big fan of jumping to the assumption of guilt before his side of the story is even heard.

I get where you're at with the high numbers.   But then I think to myself why he would be going through over 40 massage therapists....specially through Instagram.

[Maynard]

On 4/7/2021 at 3:41 PM, vincec said:

I have no idea what happened in these incidents, but given that Watson is an elite QB in his prime- the most coveted asset in all of pro football (and maybe any sport), he will get opportunities to play again no matter what happens unless he actually goes to jail for an extended period of time and is flat unavailable.

Yeah, I think that’s the reality of it. See Michael Vick. Different circumstances, but both disturbing (if true that Watson did these actions). 

[mannc]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:41 PM, vincec said:

I have no idea what happened in these incidents, but given that Watson is an elite QB in his prime- the most coveted asset in all of pro football (and maybe any sport), he will get opportunities to play again no matter what happens unless he actually goes to jail for an extended period of time and is flat unavailable.

I think this is probably correct—he’ll get a chance to play again, barring a significant criminal conviction.  But I doubt he’ll ever be the same.  Watson’s aura of greatness has been shattered and he’s at best a laughingstock now.  We don’t know how this is going to play out yet, but I think Tiger Woods after the 2008 incident is probably the best sports analogy.