Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 It’s probably the best chance a QB can get to revive his career, the Colts have the best O-Line in the NFL and I’m sure they will add more weapons. It’s hard to evaluate Wentz but that could be due to lack of weapons and O-Line just falling apart. The Colts are going to be very hard to beat next year if Wentz can get out of the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Reich knows what he is getting. I'm sure its a well calculated gamble that will work out until he can get a solution for the future in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Darnold or Wentz is among one of the worst debates on here. Both have been ruined by their organizations and both won’t ever fulfill whatever predraft expectations they had. Besides, how many failed QBs have actually turned it around with an another organization after being traded? I can’t think of any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 57 minutes ago, Beast said: I think this move tells me the Jets may be set with Sam Darnold because, even though I know more QB's are available, I thought Darnold had Colts written all over him. In fact, I'd rather have Darnold than Wentz. I think Reich went with the player he knew. They’re comparable in overall potential IMO (though to be clear I don’t really like either) so that makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I can agree there. I dont think Darnold is completely finished or beyond repair either. It's a bit overdone, but it bears repeating at least one more time: Sam Darnold is still 23 years old. Joe Burrow is 24. Edited February 18, 2021 by The Frankish Reich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 I don’t see much issue with the compensation. Wentz is an okay QB, good enough to win a lot of games with the right coaching and supporting cast. Contract is a bit iffy but I doubt the Colts could get a better QB in the draft. This move probably makes them an 11 win team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Wentz went from completely overrated, to underrated, to now completely trashed. I don’t think he is some top 5 qb like some were saying early in his career. But is he better than Rivers and going to play behind maybe the best o line in the nfl with much better weapons than he had in Philly? Yup. The Colts are going to be really tough again. and Philly did the best they could on a dude who’s value completely plummeted this year. Good trade for both teams. Just now, The Frankish Reich said: It's a bit overdone, but it bears repeating at least one more time: Sam Darnold is still 23 years old. And in one of the worst situations of any qb in the nfl. He needs to cut out the turnovers though. 4 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: Darnold or Wentz is among one of the worst debates on here. Both have been ruined by their organizations and both won’t ever fulfill whatever predraft expectations they had. Besides, how many failed QBs have actually turned it around with an another organization after being traded? I can’t think of any. Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Beast said: I think this move tells me the Jets may be set with Sam Darnold because, even though I know more QB's are available, I thought Darnold had Colts written all over him. In fact, I'd rather have Darnold than Wentz. unless of course they are trading Darnold to the Texans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Wentz went from completely overrated, to underrated, to now completely trashed. I don’t think he is some top 5 qb like some were saying early in his career. But is he better than Rivers and going to play behind maybe the best o line in the nfl with much better weapons than he had in Philly? Yup. The Colts are going to be really tough again. and Philly did the best they could on a dude who’s value completely plummeted this year. Good trade for both teams. And in one of the worst situations of any qb in the nfl. He needs to cut out the turnovers though. The thing that kind of sticks with me about Wentz is this: that Eagles SB team was better with Nick Foles at QB. I kind of like to do the "with or without you" thing when evaluating a QB. When your backup - over a reasonable sample size - actually plays better than you did, well, what can you say about your value as a starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said: Darnold or Wentz is among one of the worst debates on here. Both have been ruined by their organizations and both won’t ever fulfill whatever predraft expectations they had. Besides, how many failed QBs have actually turned it around with an another organization after being traded? I can’t think of any. historically off the top of my head? Steve Young and Brett Favre. I dont think Darnold or Wentz are either of those guys, but it happens. I'd have to go through a wikipedia list to find some more modern examples, but they absolutely exist. also, the QB talent has been extremely lacking over the last decade as empasized by the stat @Logic posted earlier in the thread, so bad sample group. I dont think any of us in that debate are expecting these guys to become elite franchise guys, but they can be serviceable starters, and are young enough to turn it around. And it can happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: I can agree there. I dont think Darnold is completely finished or beyond repair either. I would love to see the Jets and Fish hang onto their current QBs. I don’t think they will. 20 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said: Colts are ready to roll. Competent QB play and in Bills Wild Card Game and they would have post 40+ on Bills Defense that day. They are ready to give KC a run. Rivers threw for like 500 yards Edited February 18, 2021 by YoloinOhio 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: historically off the top of my head? Steve Young and Brett Favre. I dont think Darnold or Wentz are either of those guys, but it happens. I'd have to go through a wikipedia list to find some more modern examples, but they absolutely exist. also, the QB talent has been extremely lacking over the last decade as empasized by the stat @Logic posted earlier in the thread, so bad sample group. I dont think any of us in that debate are expecting these guys to become elite franchise guys, but they can be serviceable starters, and are young enough to turn it around. And it can happen. And those would be in the category of pretty good examples, wouldn't they ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: The thing that kind of sticks with me about Wentz is this: that Eagles SB team was better with Nick Foles at QB. I kind of like to do the "with or without you" thing when evaluating a QB. When your backup - over a reasonable sample size - actually plays better than you did, well, what can you say about your value as a starter? See that’s nit really true. They were 11-2 when Wentz got hurt and he was a MVP candidate. I think people overlook that. I do think once Foles won the SB, it was really hard for Wentz to win over that lockerroom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Wow that’s a bad divorce right there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Based on how Wentz liked Alshon Jeffery in Philly, watch out for Michael Pittman Jr. yes that kid is solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: historically off the top of my head? Steve Young and Brett Favre. I dont think Darnold or Wentz are either of those guys, but it happens. I'd have to go through a wikipedia list to find some more modern examples, but they absolutely exist. also, the QB talent has been extremely lacking over the last decade as empasized by the stat @Logic posted earlier in the thread, so bad sample group. I dont think any of us in that debate are expecting these guys to become elite franchise guys, but they can be serviceable starters, and are young enough to turn it around. And it can happen. I mean what was Farve before GB? Again to say that they will be Farve (who is losing his mind now) is crazy. But both of them were much more proven than Farve at this point. I think young was kinda like Darnold in which people thought he was talented but just in an awful situation. But good examples. And I don’t think he’s Great but you could say Tannehill too. 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: Wow that’s a bad divorce right there Don’t get married if you’re rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Doesnt Wentz have a huge contract? Taking that in is the only downside I see for the Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, Nick the Greek said: Doesnt Wentz have a huge contract? Taking that in is the only downside I see for the Colts. I think the draft picks are a lot for what he is, but their pickings were slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: See that’s nit really true. They were 11-2 when Wentz got hurt and he was a MVP candidate. I think people overlook that. I do think once Foles won the SB, it was really hard for Wentz to win over that lockerroom. Oh, no doubt that's true. Wentz had a really good season. Bills fans will cringe, but Josh Allen's 2020 was kind of like Wentz's 2017. But after a kind of rough finish to the regular season, here's what Foles did in the playoffs: 238 yards passing 346 yards 374 in the Super Bowl in a 41-33 shootout The Eagles offense peaked with Foles at the helm, and against the best competition. Really unusual for that to happen with a journeyman backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw2112 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 This seems like a good deal for both sides. Wentz was done in Philly and has a huge salary and cap hit. While Philly didn't get that much in compensation, they unload the contract and disgruntled player and got a couple of Day 2 picks in return. For the Colts, they didn't give up that much and got a guy who has the potential to be a franchise QB (again). In exchange, they take on the bloated contract and risk that Wentz is done. If Wentz gets back to the form of a couple of years ago (the SB season prior to the injury), the Colts will be scary good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, FireChans said: I doubt they let him play that much if he sucks. Well they still get a 2nd next year if he doesn't play 75% of the snaps. And unless he gets hurt, he will play 75% of the snaps without question. They have no one else to really challenge him for playing time, and Colts have a stingy defense, good OL, and good run game. They will not have to lean on Wentz, so as long as he stays on the field healthy he is going to see 75% of the snaps next year. And if that happens, the 2nd becomes a first. So odds are, Eagles got a 3rd this year and 1st next year for an injury prone QB, with a large hard to trade contract, who hasn't looked good since 2017. The big questions on Wentz are two fold: 1. Can he stay healthy? 2. Who is the real Wentz? The guy who was an MVP candidate through 13 weeks of the season in 2017, or the guy who has played at a similar level as Mitch Trubisky since? Eagles OL was a mess, and so were their WR's...so how much did that cause him to regress? Honestly, Wentz likely would have struggled again in Chicago, but the Colts are literally a best case scenario for him. Good D to take pressure off the offense, and most importantly a very good OL with some solid weapons to throw to and in the run game. Big bonus is he has Frank Reich too. If he can't rebound his career there this year, he will be looking for a backup job in 2022...but if he can, Colts wont miss a beat with Rivers retiring and could even be better if Wentz finds some of that 2017 form. My personal opinion is I think Wentz is not as good as that short stint suggested in 2017, but also not as bad as hes looked the last 2 years and will be comparable to what Rivers was for them this year. Feels like a good trade for both sides right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said: Oh, no doubt that's true. Wentz had a really good season. Bills fans will cringe, but Josh Allen's 2020 was kind of like Wentz's 2017. But after a kind of rough finish to the regular season, here's what Foles did in the playoffs: 238 yards passing 346 yards 374 in the Super Bowl in a 41-33 shootout The Eagles offense peaked with Foles at the helm, and against the best competition. Really unusual for that to happen with a journeyman backup. 1 - that’s why Allen needs to follow up with a great year. It does sound like Wentz wasn’t that popular in the lockerroom and that’s nit the case for Allen. 2 - foles was amazing in the playoffs but Wentz had better numbers across the board than Foles in the regular season. What Foles did was amazing but Wentz was awesome that year and the Eagles were awesome with him. Can’t really knock him for getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I would love to see the Jets and Fish hang onto their current QBs. I don’t think they will. Rivers threw for like 500 yards Barley 300 and missed many more opportunities that a more athletic QB could have made both in the air and on the ground. With the formula Indy figured out to shut buffalo down on 3rd down...and the Dominant OLINE of Colts...had Rivers not been sub 60% and created a little with his legs. Indy was on their way to a east 40-45 point road victory that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Well they still get a 2nd next year if he doesn't play 75% of the snaps. And unless he gets hurt, he will play 75% of the snaps without question. They have no one else to really challenge him for playing time, and Colts have a stingy defense, good OL, and good run game. They will not have to lean on Wentz, so as long as he stays on the field healthy he is going to see 75% of the snaps next year. And if that happens, the 2nd becomes a first. So odds are, Eagles got a 3rd this year and 1st next year for an injury prone QB, with a large hard to trade contract, who hasn't looked good since 2017. The big questions on Wentz are two fold: 1. Can he stay healthy? 2. Who is the real Wentz? The guy who was an MVP candidate through 13 weeks of the season in 2017, or the guy who has played at a similar level as Mitch Trubisky since? Eagles OL was a mess, and so were their WR's...so how much did that cause him to regress? Honestly, Wentz likely would have struggled again in Chicago, but the Colts are literally a best case scenario for him. Good D to take pressure off the offense, and most importantly a very good OL with some solid weapons to throw to and in the run game. Big bonus is he has Frank Reich too. If he can't rebound his career there this year, he will be looking for a backup job in 2022...but if he can, Colts wont miss a beat with Rivers retiring and could even be better if Wentz finds some of that 2017 form. My personal opinion is I think Wentz is not as good as that short stint suggested in 2017, but also not as bad as hes looked the last 2 years and will be comparable to what Rivers was for them this year. Feels like a good trade for both sides right now. Agree with most of this but I definitely think he’s an upgrade over Rivers. They are a SB contender. And Pittman is going to be a problem. That’s a good team there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Ew 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloMatt Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Awesome. I was worried they would get someone good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Ew Classic Browns! Flip a #2 Overall into 12 picks, and hit on maybe 1 of them? LOOOOOOL Could've stayed at #2 and had Joey Bosa, or Jalen Ramsey, or Ronnie Stanley... Edited February 18, 2021 by DrDawkinstein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 It's an interesting trade. Not sure why people think a 1st/2nd and 3rd is a small return for Wentz after the year he had this year. Seems like it's actually kind of a lot. If this past season proves to be an outlier and Wentz can return to his normal caliber of play with a significantly better supporting cast around him, Wentz might prove to be an upgrade from Rivers. If last year's level of play is his new norm, then it's a significant downgrade. This Colts team with the Wentz of old would be very scary, especially if they continue to upgrade their receiving corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It's an interesting trade. Not sure why people think a 1st/2nd and 3rd is a small return for Wentz after the year he had this year. Seems like it's actually kind of a lot. If this past season proves to be an outlier and Wentz can return to his normal caliber of play with a significantly better supporting cast around him, Wentz might prove to be an upgrade from Rivers. If last year's level of play is his new norm, then it's a significant downgrade. This Colts team with the Wentz of old would be very scary, especially if they continue to upgrade their receiving corps. I think it’s way too much especially considering his contract and the fact they were bidding against themselves 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seventeen Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 51 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said: unless of course they are trading Darnold to the Texans... or the Steelers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 You think after his franchise record setting rookie season, and then the 11-2 run in 2017 before going down with injury, the fans of Philly thought they had their next franchise QB? I do! And he just got kicked to the curb for almost nothing in return. Nothing is guaranteed in this league! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said: Wow knowing some outdated grammatical nitpick really shows how much smarter you are then every one else. IQ and grammar are absolutely identical! 🙄 ZOOM! (Right over your head. It was a play on his last name.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 This deal has Frank Reich saying "I can fix him" written all over it. Unfortunately Frank forgot that he won the Super Bowl with Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 28 minutes ago, DCOrange said: It's an interesting trade. Not sure why people think a 1st/2nd and 3rd is a small return for Wentz after the year he had this year. Seems like it's actually kind of a lot. If this past season proves to be an outlier and Wentz can return to his normal caliber of play with a significantly better supporting cast around him, Wentz might prove to be an upgrade from Rivers. If last year's level of play is his new norm, then it's a significant downgrade. This Colts team with the Wentz of old would be very scary, especially if they continue to upgrade their receiving corps. It's a great return for the Eagles. He was never going to play another down for them and I can't believe there were any other serious suitors, especially with that contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Don Otreply said: Wentz must be incredibly happy, by this standard Darnold is not fetching a first... The Colts do take on $25M of 2021 cap https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/carson-wentz-18950/cash-earnings/ I think what drove the price down for the Colts is 1) that Wentz is a major reclamation project AND 2) an expensive one 1 hour ago, ChevyVanMiller said: For those wondering why Indy had to give up so little look no further than the contract they have to inherit with Wentz. He signed an extension that kicks in this year for $128 million, with $70 million guaranteed. He will count 35 million this year against Indy’s cap. That could really handcuff them if he blows up in their faces. I'm not sure that's correct. I think the Eagles still eat his signing bonus. (Was your post supposed to be a link? I couldn't make it work if so) 6 minutes ago, eball said: This deal has Frank Reich saying "I can fix him" written all over it. Unfortunately Frank forgot that he won the Super Bowl with Foles. Somehow, I doubt that Reich forgot any such thing 31 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I think it’s way too much especially considering his contract and the fact they were bidding against themselves You don't buy the Chicago interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, eball said: This deal has Frank Reich saying "I can fix him" written all over it. Unfortunately Frank forgot that he won the Super Bowl with Foles. Wentz will be given an ultimatum by Coach Reich..."you either work with me, or we bring in Adam Gase." * Doesn't Gase look like he could be Reich's younger (and crazier) brother? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: But is he better than Rivers and going to play behind maybe the best o line in the nfl with much better weapons than he had in Philly? Yup. In what way is Wentz better than Rivers? He has better arm strength and more athleticism obviously. Other than that Rivers was a supremely better QB in 2020. Rivers played very well against us making quick decisions and mostly putting the ball where it needed to go. Wentz hasn't been that type of QB in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. K Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 My snap reaction... the Eagles just saved themselves from a horrible contract with a underproducing QB. If Reich is able to get something decent out of Wentz I still don't see him playing at the value of the capital. Wentz is having the career arc of Derek Anderson imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, mannc said: It's a great return for the Eagles. He was never going to play another down for them and I can't believe there were any other serious suitors, especially with that contract. The contract really isn't bad if you believe he's the guy that he was up until this past season, which the Colts obviously do. I'm sure the Colts are looking at it and saying they're getting a good QB at below-market rate. I agree a 1st and 3rd for Wentz is a pretty good return. At the same time, factoring in the cap penalties, Philly essentially paid $34 million for a 1st and 3rd round pick. Is that a reasonable price? I would say, financially, no. But I get that if they hit on what will likely be a late 1st round pick, it might be worth it in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Beast said: I think this move tells me the Jets may be set with Sam Darnold because, even though I know more QB's are available, I thought Darnold had Colts written all over him. In fact, I'd rather have Darnold than Wentz. You might, but Frank Reich obviously differs Reich was OC with Eagles when they made the call to draft Wentz. I think it's fair to say Wentz is a pretty open book to Reich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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